Hindu is a Vedic Term After All

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hinducivilization, "S. Kalyanaraman"

<kalyan97 wrote:

 

The word Sindhu in Rigveda has the meaning 'natural ocean frontier'.

The cognate term, 'hindu' is thus, a geographical connotation for a

rashtra. This makes the term, in spoken Saurashtri as: 'hindu' as old

as the vedic times. See Vaagaambhrinee sukta by Rishikaa

vaagaambhrinee in Rigveda: aham rashtree sangamanee (I am rashtra...)

 

The article by MH Pahoja is lucid, precise and well-referenced.

 

kalyan

 

Antiquity and origin of the term 'Hindu' by Dr. Murlidhar H. Pahoja

(2007) http://sarasvati95.googlepages.com/antiquityhindu.pdf

 

Excerpts:

 

The anti-Hindu historians like Romila Thapar 1 and D.N. Jha 2 have

opined that the word 'Hindu' was given currency by the Arabs in the

8th century. They however, do not explain the basis of their

conclusion nor do they cite any evidence in support of their claim.

Even Arab Muslim writers do not make such an extravagant claim 3.

Another theory propounded by European writers is that the

word 'Hindu' is a Persian corruption of 'Sindhu' resulting from the

Persian practice of replacing 'S' with 'H'. Even here, no evidence is

cited. In fact the word Persia itself contains 'S' which should have

become 'Perhia' if this theory was correct. The present paper

examines the above two theories in the light of epigraphic and

literary evidence available from Persian, Indian, Greek, Chinese and

Arabic sources. The evidence appears to support the conclusion

that 'Hindu' like 'Sindhu', has been in use since the Vedic age and

that although 'Hindu' is a modified form of 'Sindhu', its origin

lies in the Saurashtran practice of pronouncing 'H' in place of 'S'.

 

1. Epigraphic Evidence :

 

The Hamadan, Persepolis and Naqsh-I-Rustam Inscriptions4 of Persian

monarch Darius mention a people 'Hidu' as included in his empire.

These inscriptions are dated between 520-485 B.C.4 ..Xerexes,

successor of Darius, in his inscriptios4 at Persepolis, gives names

of countries under his rule. The list includes 'Hidu'. Xerexes was

ruling between 485-465 B.C.4 On a tomb in Persepolis, another

inscription assigned to Artaxerexes (404-395 B.C.)4, there are three

figures above which are inscribed 'iyam Qataguviya' (this is

Satygidian), 'iyam Ga(n)dariya' (this is Gandhara) and 'iyam Hi(n)

duviya' (this is Hi(n)du)...

 

The Asokan inscriptions (3rd century B.C.)5, repeatedly use

expressions like 'Hida' (fgn) for 'India' and 'Hida loka' (fgn yksd)

for 'Indian nation'. 'Hida' and its derivative forms are used more

than 70 times in the Ashokan inscriptions. For instance in the

Jaugadha, separate rock edict II, the lines 3 &4, read,

 

sava munisaa me pajaa. atha pajaaye ichaami kinti me saven.aa

hitasukhena yujeyu

atha pajaaye ichami kinti me savena hitasukhena yujeyu hidalogika

paalalokiken.a hevameva me icha savamunisesu

 

(All men are my people. I desire for my people that they may be

provided with all welfare and happiness. I desire for my people,

including the people of Hind and beyond and I desire for all men.)

 

The Edict further, says in lines 7 & 8,

 

mama nimitam ca dhammam cale yoo ti hidalogam ca paalalogam ca

aaladhaye yoo

 

(Dhamma may be followed and and the people of Hind and beyond may

be served.)..

 

2. Evidence from Pahlvi Avesta :

 

In the Avesta, Hapta-Hindu is used for Sanskrit Sapta-Sindhu7, the

Avesta being dated variously between 5000-1000 B.C. This indicates

that the term 'Hindu' is as old as the word 'Sindhu'. Sindhu is a

Vedik term used in the Rigveda. And therefore, 'Hindu' is as ancient

as the Rigveda.

 

3. Greek Usage

 

The Greek term 'Indoi' is a softened form of 'Hindu' where the

initial 'H' was dropped as the Greek alphabet has no aspirate9. This

term 'Indoi' was used in Greek literature by Hekataeus (late 6th

century B.C.) and Herodotus (early 5th century B.C.) 9, thus

establishing that the Greeks were using this derivative of 'Hindu' as

early as 6th century B.C.

 

4. The Hebrew Bible :

 

The Hebrew bible uses 'Hodu' 10 for India, which is a Judaic form

of 'Hindu'. The Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is considered earlier

than 300 B.C.10 Today's Hebrew spoken in Israel also uses Hodu for

India.

 

5. The Chinese Testimony :

 

The Chinese used the term 'Hien-tu' for 'Hindu' about 100 B.C.11

While describing movements of the Sai-Wang (100 B.C.), the Chinese

annals state that the Sai-Wang went towards the South and passing

Hien-tu reached Ki-Pin11. Later Chinese travellers Fa-Hien (5th

century A.D.) and Huen-Tsang (7th century A.D.) use a slightly

modified term 'Yintu' 12 but the affinity to 'Hindu' is still

retained. This term 'Yintu' continues to be used till today 13.

 

6. Pre-Islamic Arabic Literature :

 

Sair-ul-Okul14 is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry available

in the Turkish library Makhtab-e-Sultania in Istambul. In this

anthology is included a poem by Prophet Mohammed's uncle Omar-bin-e-

Hassham. The poem is in praise of Mahadev (Shiva), and uses 'Hind'

for India and 'Hindu' for Indians. Some verses are quoted below:

 

Wa Abaloha ajabu armeeman Mahadevo

Manojail ilamuddin minhum wa sayattaru

(If but once one worships Mahadev with devotion,

One will attain the ultimate salvation.)

Wa sahabi Kay yam feema Kamil Hinda e Yauman,

Wa Yakulam na latabahan foeennak Tawajjaru.

( Oh Lord grant me but one day's sojourn in Hind,

Where one can attain spiritual bliss.)

Massayare akhalakan hasanan Kullahum,

Najumam aja at Summa gabul Hindu.

( But one pilgrimage there gets one all merit,

And the company of great Hindu saints.)

 

The same anthology has another poem by Labi-bin-e Akhtab bin-e

Turfa who is dated 2300 before Mohammed i.e. 1700 B.C. This poem also

uses 'Hind' for India and 'Hindu' for Indian. The poem also mentions

the four Vedas Sama, Yajur, Rig and Athar...

 

But it cannot be denied that Hindu is a form of Sindhu. It needs to

be realised that this change from S to H is common in Saurashtra

where Sorath becomes Horath, Somnath becomes Homnath and so on. The

form Hindu is therefore, likely to have come from Saurashtra.

 

It should also be noted that as per Nirukta rules of grammar, in

the Vedik language, replacement of S with H is permitted 17.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Kalyan,

 

Sorry but I can not see this article as

>lucid, precise<

 

He contradicts himself in saying that Hindu CANNOT come from Persian

corruption of Sindhu

>resulting from the Persian practice of replacing 'S' with 'H'. Even

here, no evidence is cited.<

 

Later on he quotes exactly that as an evidence:

>In the Avesta, Hapta-Hindu is used for Sanskrit Sapta-Sindhu7, the

Avesta being dated variously between 5000-1000 B.C. This indicates

that the term 'Hindu' is as old as the word 'Sindhu'. Sindhu is a

Vedik term used in the Rigveda. And therefore, 'Hindu' is as ancient

> as the Rigveda.

 

Avesta comes originally from Persia, or am I mistaken?

 

And if the pedofile Greeks used the word Indoi, does it make it a

Vedic term? I don't know.

 

Hindu might have been used to describe people who live behind a river

called Sindhu - but it is not a proper name to describe the Vedic

Civilization.

 

The proper name of Vedic science and faith is Sanatana Dharma, the

eternal way of life. For myself, I did not come across a term like

Hinduism in Vedic Literature.

 

With best wishes

 

Shaas

Germany

 

 

vediculture, "Vrndavan Parker" <vrnparker

wrote:

>

> hinducivilization, "S. Kalyanaraman"

> <kalyan97@> wrote:

>

> The word Sindhu in Rigveda has the meaning 'natural ocean

frontier'.

> The cognate term, 'hindu' is thus, a geographical connotation for a

> rashtra. This makes the term, in spoken Saurashtri as: 'hindu' as

old

> as the vedic times. See Vaagaambhrinee sukta by Rishikaa

> vaagaambhrinee in Rigveda: aham rashtree sangamanee (I am

rashtra...)

>

> The article by MH Pahoja is lucid, precise and well-referenced.

>

> kalyan

>

> Antiquity and origin of the term 'Hindu' by Dr. Murlidhar H.

Pahoja

> (2007) http://sarasvati95.googlepages.com/antiquityhindu.pdf

>

> Excerpts:

>

> The anti-Hindu historians like Romila Thapar 1 and D.N. Jha 2

have

> opined that the word 'Hindu' was given currency by the Arabs in the

> 8th century. They however, do not explain the basis of their

> conclusion nor do they cite any evidence in support of their claim.

> Even Arab Muslim writers do not make such an extravagant claim 3.

> Another theory propounded by European writers is that the

> word 'Hindu' is a Persian corruption of 'Sindhu' resulting from the

> Persian practice of replacing 'S' with 'H'. Even here, no evidence

is

> cited. In fact the word Persia itself contains 'S' which should

have

> become 'Perhia' if this theory was correct. The present paper

> examines the above two theories in the light of epigraphic and

> literary evidence available from Persian, Indian, Greek, Chinese

and

> Arabic sources. The evidence appears to support the conclusion

> that 'Hindu' like 'Sindhu', has been in use since the Vedic age and

> that although 'Hindu' is a modified form of 'Sindhu', its origin

> lies in the Saurashtran practice of pronouncing 'H' in place

of 'S'.

>

> 1. Epigraphic Evidence :

>

> The Hamadan, Persepolis and Naqsh-I-Rustam Inscriptions4 of

Persian

> monarch Darius mention a people 'Hidu' as included in his empire.

> These inscriptions are dated between 520-485 B.C.4 ..Xerexes,

> successor of Darius, in his inscriptios4 at Persepolis, gives names

> of countries under his rule. The list includes 'Hidu'. Xerexes was

> ruling between 485-465 B.C.4 On a tomb in Persepolis, another

> inscription assigned to Artaxerexes (404-395 B.C.)4, there are

three

> figures above which are inscribed 'iyam Qataguviya' (this is

> Satygidian), 'iyam Ga(n)dariya' (this is Gandhara) and 'iyam Hi(n)

> duviya' (this is Hi(n)du)...

>

> The Asokan inscriptions (3rd century B.C.)5, repeatedly use

> expressions like 'Hida' (fgn) for 'India' and 'Hida loka' (fgn

yksd)

> for 'Indian nation'. 'Hida' and its derivative forms are used more

> than 70 times in the Ashokan inscriptions. For instance in the

> Jaugadha, separate rock edict II, the lines 3 &4, read,

>

> sava munisaa me pajaa. atha pajaaye ichaami kinti me saven.aa

> hitasukhena yujeyu

> atha pajaaye ichami kinti me savena hitasukhena yujeyu hidalogika

> paalalokiken.a hevameva me icha savamunisesu

>

> (All men are my people. I desire for my people that they may be

> provided with all welfare and happiness. I desire for my people,

> including the people of Hind and beyond and I desire for all men.)

>

> The Edict further, says in lines 7 & 8,

>

> mama nimitam ca dhammam cale yoo ti hidalogam ca paalalogam ca

> aaladhaye yoo

>

> (Dhamma may be followed and and the people of Hind and beyond may

> be served.)..

>

> 2. Evidence from Pahlvi Avesta :

>

> In the Avesta, Hapta-Hindu is used for Sanskrit Sapta-Sindhu7,

the

> Avesta being dated variously between 5000-1000 B.C. This indicates

> that the term 'Hindu' is as old as the word 'Sindhu'. Sindhu is a

> Vedik term used in the Rigveda. And therefore, 'Hindu' is as

ancient

> as the Rigveda.

>

> 3. Greek Usage

>

> The Greek term 'Indoi' is a softened form of 'Hindu' where the

> initial 'H' was dropped as the Greek alphabet has no aspirate9.

This

> term 'Indoi' was used in Greek literature by Hekataeus (late 6th

> century B.C.) and Herodotus (early 5th century B.C.) 9, thus

> establishing that the Greeks were using this derivative of 'Hindu'

as

> early as 6th century B.C.

>

> 4. The Hebrew Bible :

>

> The Hebrew bible uses 'Hodu' 10 for India, which is a Judaic form

> of 'Hindu'. The Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is considered earlier

> than 300 B.C.10 Today's Hebrew spoken in Israel also uses Hodu for

> India.

>

> 5. The Chinese Testimony :

>

> The Chinese used the term 'Hien-tu' for 'Hindu' about 100 B.C.11

> While describing movements of the Sai-Wang (100 B.C.), the Chinese

> annals state that the Sai-Wang went towards the South and passing

> Hien-tu reached Ki-Pin11. Later Chinese travellers Fa-Hien (5th

> century A.D.) and Huen-Tsang (7th century A.D.) use a slightly

> modified term 'Yintu' 12 but the affinity to 'Hindu' is still

> retained. This term 'Yintu' continues to be used till today 13.

>

> 6. Pre-Islamic Arabic Literature :

>

> Sair-ul-Okul14 is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry available

> in the Turkish library Makhtab-e-Sultania in Istambul. In this

> anthology is included a poem by Prophet Mohammed's uncle Omar-bin-e-

> Hassham. The poem is in praise of Mahadev (Shiva), and uses 'Hind'

> for India and 'Hindu' for Indians. Some verses are quoted below:

>

> Wa Abaloha ajabu armeeman Mahadevo

> Manojail ilamuddin minhum wa sayattaru

> (If but once one worships Mahadev with devotion,

> One will attain the ultimate salvation.)

> Wa sahabi Kay yam feema Kamil Hinda e Yauman,

> Wa Yakulam na latabahan foeennak Tawajjaru.

> ( Oh Lord grant me but one day's sojourn in Hind,

> Where one can attain spiritual bliss.)

> Massayare akhalakan hasanan Kullahum,

> Najumam aja at Summa gabul Hindu.

> ( But one pilgrimage there gets one all merit,

> And the company of great Hindu saints.)

>

> The same anthology has another poem by Labi-bin-e Akhtab bin-e

> Turfa who is dated 2300 before Mohammed i.e. 1700 B.C. This poem

also

> uses 'Hind' for India and 'Hindu' for Indian. The poem also

mentions

> the four Vedas Sama, Yajur, Rig and Athar...

>

> But it cannot be denied that Hindu is a form of Sindhu. It needs

to

> be realised that this change from S to H is common in Saurashtra

> where Sorath becomes Horath, Somnath becomes Homnath and so on. The

> form Hindu is therefore, likely to have come from Saurashtra.

>

> It should also be noted that as per Nirukta rules of grammar, in

> the Vedik language, replacement of S with H is permitted 17.

>

>

>

>

>

> Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate

> in the Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

>

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

[dhammadit]

In reply to Sasha,

 

Avesta is a holy book of the Parsis. Zarathurashtra is the originator. As per Western sources, Zarathurashtra was from Bactria and NOT from Persia or Iran. The word Haptahindu is therefore not Persian. Bactria is generally identified with Balkh on account of similarity of sound. On the other hand, the fact that haptahindu is used for saptasindhu, Zarathurashtra might have been a Surashtran as replacing S with H is acommon practice in Saurashtra.

[dhammadit]

Dear Kalyan, Sasha,

 

The following may be of interest:

 

Max Muler says in his "Science of Languages" :

 

"Zorastrians migrated from India to the North-West and whose religion has been preserved to us in the Zend Avesta, though in fragments only."

 

He further says, "The Zorastrians were a colony from India".