Guest guest Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Namaste friends, I know that this issue of Swami Vivekananda dismissing fate and astrology in a lecture came up earlier also. Let me share my 2 cents on that. > let's not be oblivious to some rather famous and great names of the past > being skeptical of astrology. If we penned a list, Swami Vivekananda would > be certainly be the top seed. Suppose I am watching a movie with my children. Suppose the hero, who my child self-identifies with while watching the movie, is badly hurt by the villain. Suppose my child is very badly upset because of it. If my child is mature enough, I can explain that this movie is not really happening (even though it seems to happen live on the big screen in front of us) and hence one need not worry about a "delusion" that is playing out on the screen. However, if another child of mine is not mature enough to understand and appreciate that, I may not want to confuse. I may just re-assure that the hero is after all going to be fine and recover to hit back at the villain soon. If I have means to guess it, I may even guess that the hero is going to hit back after 5 minutes 20 seconds. That makes the child happy. This is bad in a way because the child will continue to stay in the delusion that what is happening on the screen is real in some way and it is ok to be emotionally affected by it. But, that child is not ready for more. If my answer to a child in a simplistic scenario such as the above (if you can, please note that some details in this example are carefully chosen to reflect on the role of astrology/astrologer) can be different based on my perception of the maturity level of the child, why can't the answers of a spiritual master to seekers be different based on the maturity level of the audience? Swami Vivekananda was a great teacher of masses and he did not want to confuse his audiences. He would focus on one point, based on his audience, and drive his point passionately. Because of the passion to drive his point home, he would sometimes over-state something, strictly within a particular context. If you take it out of context, it loses its meaning. In the context of this world appearance being a delusion and in the context of one having to rise above it and not be bound by the delusion of world appearance, it is completely true that astrology is a useless subject. But, if you take the context away and come to the context of a normal layman's daily life, then astrology is a very useful subject (assuming you have a genuine, learned and honest astrologer helping you). Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His understanding is so subtle and supreme that it cannot be completely captured by his audience listening to his lecture (vaikhari). The lecture only captures a small portion of his understanding. The audience of his lecture is akin to my children who listen to me in the example at the beginning of this mail! My answers are fine-tuned for each child and they do not reflect my complete views. Same holds for Swami Vivekananda's lectures. People have taken a statement of Swami Vivekananda out of context and jumped to a conclusion that he questioned astrology. It is one thing to question the sincerity of most astrologers, the correctness of astrology as understood today and the validity of overly relying on astrology, but quite another to absolutely dismiss fate and astrology. A reborn rishi like Swami Vivekananda simply could not have dismissed a Vedanga altogether. I am 100% sure that Swami Vivekananda's said quote is a misunderstood one. In fact, I understand that Swami Vivekananda had a passing knowledge of astrology and he referred to a printed panchange before withdrawing into his room for his mahasamadhi. Some of his close associates, such as Swami Vijnanananda, were scholars of Jyotisha. May the light of Brahman shine within, Narasimha ------------------------------- Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Narasimha, Not sure which email or individual you were replying to but I presume someone must have used Vivekanada as an example of a Wise Saint/Spiritualist who spoke against astrology. When Vivekanada came upon the Indian scene, the general morale was low after centuries of slavery, first by the conquestors from middle east and then from the west. In such hopeless climes, humans react like lower animals and display what is known in psychological research circles as 'play dead' stance. When rodents and lower animals (their term not mine!) are stressed beyond limits they give up and lie on their backs in a posture as if they are dead. The society and its spirit was perhaps at its lowest and there was a need to shock the nation into self- pride. Vivekananda did that, and so did Gandhiji! It is understandable why these two Saints stressed more on self- awareness, self-pride and had to use more stark as opposed to subtle measures and wording. Their words taken out of context are just not appropriate. I am glad you pointed that out in your message, way more diplomatically than I could ever manage even if I tried :-) RR vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: > > Namaste friends, > > I know that this issue of Swami Vivekananda dismissing fate and astrology in a lecture came up earlier also. Let me share my 2 cents on that. > > > let's not be oblivious to some rather famous and great names of the past > > being skeptical of astrology. If we penned a list, Swami Vivekananda would > > be certainly be the top seed. > > Suppose I am watching a movie with my children. Suppose the hero, who my child self-identifies with while watching the movie, is badly hurt by the villain. Suppose my child is very badly upset because of it. If my child is mature enough, I can explain that this movie is not really happening (even though it seems to happen live on the big screen in front of us) and hence one need not worry about a "delusion" that is playing out on the screen. However, if another child of mine is not mature enough to understand and appreciate that, I may not want to confuse. I may just re-assure that the hero is after all going to be fine and recover to hit back at the villain soon. If I have means to guess it, I may even guess that the hero is going to hit back after 5 minutes 20 seconds. That makes the child happy. This is bad in a way because the child will continue to stay in the delusion that what is happening on the screen is real in some way and it is ok to be emotionally affected by it. But, that child is not ready for more. > > If my answer to a child in a simplistic scenario such as the above (if you can, please note that some details in this example are carefully chosen to reflect on the role of astrology/astrologer) can be different based on my perception of the maturity level of the child, why can't the answers of a spiritual master to seekers be different based on the maturity level of the audience? > > Swami Vivekananda was a great teacher of masses and he did not want to confuse his audiences. He would focus on one point, based on his audience, and drive his point passionately. Because of the passion to drive his point home, he would sometimes over-state something, strictly within a particular context. If you take it out of context, it loses its meaning. > > In the context of this world appearance being a delusion and in the context of one having to rise above it and not be bound by the delusion of world appearance, it is completely true that astrology is a useless subject. But, if you take the context away and come to the context of a normal layman's daily life, then astrology is a very useful subject (assuming you have a genuine, learned and honest astrologer helping you). > > Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His understanding is so subtle and supreme that it cannot be completely captured by his audience listening to his lecture (vaikhari). The lecture only captures a small portion of his understanding. The audience of his lecture is akin to my children who listen to me in the example at the beginning of this mail! My answers are fine-tuned for each child and they do not reflect my complete views. Same holds for Swami Vivekananda's lectures. > > People have taken a statement of Swami Vivekananda out of context and jumped to a conclusion that he questioned astrology. It is one thing to question the sincerity of most astrologers, the correctness of astrology as understood today and the validity of overly relying on astrology, but quite another to absolutely dismiss fate and astrology. A reborn rishi like Swami Vivekananda simply could not have dismissed a Vedanga altogether. I am 100% sure that Swami Vivekananda's said quote is a misunderstood one. > > In fact, I understand that Swami Vivekananda had a passing knowledge of astrology and he referred to a printed panchange before withdrawing into his room for his mahasamadhi. Some of his close associates, such as Swami Vijnanananda, were scholars of Jyotisha. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2007 Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 what Vivekananda said regarding astrology was for spiritual progress of masses. infact Vivekananda choosed his death day by looking at the panchang. , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > //Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda > represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His understanding > is so subtle and supreme that it cannot be completely captured by his > audience listening to his lecture// > > Same goes with statements of other great personalities. > To capture the complete audiences mind to the point > wished to bring home, these venerated > people do at times overstate matters for good of all, > because they cannot make three sets of statements for three > mindsets of audiences (Normal,Intelligent ,Mature and wise) > so the category of people who are wise and mature,have to > overlook these and understand that these > utterances were meant in context for a specific class of > people lest they become lethargic that Swamiji has said > believe in astrology,which would lead them to become > lethargic in performance of daily duties and akarmana. > Which is why the great ones never emphasise or > over-emphasise on subjects like astrology in public,but > always give good advice to people > so that they stay working in their respective fields, > without being unnecessary optimistic and fatilistic > leaving all to destiny and sitting at home. > > Bhaskar. > > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > wrote: > > > > Namaste friends, > > > > I know that this issue of Swami Vivekananda dismissing fate and > astrology in a lecture came up earlier also. Let me share my 2 cents > on that. > > > > > let's not be oblivious to some rather famous and great names of > the past > > > being skeptical of astrology. If we penned a list, Swami > Vivekananda would > > > be certainly be the top seed. > > > > Suppose I am watching a movie with my children. Suppose the hero, > who my child self-identifies with while watching the movie, is badly > hurt by the villain. Suppose my child is very badly upset because of > it. If my child is mature enough, I can explain that this movie is > not really happening (even though it seems to happen live on the big > screen in front of us) and hence one need not worry about > a "delusion" that is playing out on the screen. However, if another > child of mine is not mature enough to understand and appreciate that, > I may not want to confuse. I may just re-assure that the hero is > after all going to be fine and recover to hit back at the villain > soon. If I have means to guess it, I may even guess that the hero is > going to hit back after 5 minutes 20 seconds. That makes the child > happy. This is bad in a way because the child will continue to stay > in the delusion that what is happening on the screen is real in some > way and it is ok to be emotionally affected by it. But, that child is > not ready for more. > > > > If my answer to a child in a simplistic scenario such as the above > (if you can, please note that some details in this example are > carefully chosen to reflect on the role of astrology/astrologer) can > be different based on my perception of the maturity level of the > child, why can't the answers of a spiritual master to seekers be > different based on the maturity level of the audience? > > > > Swami Vivekananda was a great teacher of masses and he did not want > to confuse his audiences. He would focus on one point, based on his > audience, and drive his point passionately. Because of the passion to > drive his point home, he would sometimes over-state something, > strictly within a particular context. If you take it out of context, > it loses its meaning. > > > > In the context of this world appearance being a delusion and in the > context of one having to rise above it and not be bound by the > delusion of world appearance, it is completely true that astrology is > a useless subject. But, if you take the context away and come to the > context of a normal layman's daily life, then astrology is a very > useful subject (assuming you have a genuine, learned and honest > astrologer helping you). > > > > Bottomline is that not every statement made by Swami Vivekananda > represents his real view. After all, he is a rishi. His understanding > is so subtle and supreme that it cannot be completely captured by his > audience listening to his lecture (vaikhari). The lecture only > captures a small portion of his understanding. The audience of his > lecture is akin to my children who listen to me in the example at the > beginning of this mail! My answers are fine-tuned for each child and > they do not reflect my complete views. Same holds for Swami > Vivekananda's lectures. > > > > People have taken a statement of Swami Vivekananda out of context > and jumped to a conclusion that he questioned astrology. It is one > thing to question the sincerity of most astrologers, the correctness > of astrology as understood today and the validity of overly relying > on astrology, but quite another to absolutely dismiss fate and > astrology. A reborn rishi like Swami Vivekananda simply could not > have dismissed a Vedanga altogether. I am 100% sure that Swami > Vivekananda's said quote is a misunderstood one. > > > > In fact, I understand that Swami Vivekananda had a passing > knowledge of astrology and he referred to a printed panchange before > withdrawing into his room for his mahasamadhi. Some of his close > associates, such as Swami Vijnanananda, were scholars of Jyotisha. > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------------- > > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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