Preliminary Help for Meat eaters

[theist]

 

Fences make good neighbors. Some of the posters here have jumped the fence, and made camp right in other's backyards. It is a shame. That is a preaching technique which will NEVER bear fruit.

 

I hope you are not under the illusion that this forum is some exclusive iskcon site. It is not. There is a majority here who are respectful to Srila Prabhupada primarily but others may have different gurus from the line or are disciples of Srila Prabhupada's disciples and so naturally their faith will be more directed towards their guru.

 

The idea of fences making good neighbors I believe to be sound but please consider the Spiritual Discussions forum at Audarya Fellowship to be an open gate in that fence.

 

Anyone who considers that a fence should be an inviable wall to keep the others away lest they contaminate their own members should not come to this board, There are Iskcon specific forums provided which can be accessed from the main forums link.

[Beggar]

The irony of the "good fences means good neighbors" quote is that all the subgroups of Western Gaudiya Vaisnavism drew their original followers out of the ISKCON pool and currently some followers of the ISKCON camp are still jumping to these other camps. The "good fences" merely slow the flow but doesn't stop it because of the free flow of information, especially on the internet.

[Guest guest]

If there is such sensitivity already to the fact as Theist and Beggar point out that this is an "open forum", thus the gate is "already open", when how could it be possible that a person faithful to Srila BR Sridhar Maharaja, or Srila Govinda Maharaja's discipline would give their own "opinion" to contradict the black and white order of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja for his mission.

 

If there were indeed contrary orders their Guru gave in this regard, a sensitive disciple would never use that to contradict a Mahabhagavat Acharya like ACBSP's discipline in public in front of said Guru's disciples, especially knowing it is an open field.

 

But a fanatic neophyte would.

 

However so far, I have not even seen one of such people use a quote from their own Guru, or from ACBSP to contradict these plain directives to Iskcon's members.

 

They only speak out vehemently against it on the authority of their own speculation of what they think it means.

 

Perhaps, if they are actually disciples of such an esteemed pure devotee such as Srila Sridhar or Srila Govinda, they might approach their Guru for confirmation of their inkling that Srila Prabhupada did not mean what he said, before letting loose among those who follow such discipline and present it for other's consumption.

 

The open gate works both ways. Anyone may present their Guru's authorized point of view. And the only way under Vaisnava ettiquette to counter such an offered point of view is by quoting authority, otherwise, there is STILL AN INVISIBLE FENCE WHICH HAS BEEN VIOLATED. And I think that is plain as day.

[brajeshwara das]

 

If there is such sensitivity already to the fact as Theist and Beggar point out that this is an "open forum", thus the gate is "already open", when how could it be possible that a person faithful to Srila BR Sridhar Maharaja, or Srila Govinda Maharaja's discipline would give their own "opinion" to contradict the black and white order of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja for his mission.

 

The order for initiated disciples to engage in eating meat is not clear, I am not contradicting Srila Swami MAharaj at all, but asking for more proof that this is his intention. This is very serious, you are asking people to follow based on an assumption of what he meant. If I have commited any offense to Srila Swami Maharaj I sincerely request his forgiveness, but that I disagree with his disciples on this point is no offense to him.

[Guest guest]

You have not even seen one of such people use a quote from their own Guru, or from ACBSP to contradict these plain directives to Iskcon's members because you're not paying attention. Many quotes have already been provided throughout this forum against meat eating.

 

 

If there is such sensitivity already to the fact as Theist and Beggar point out that this is an "open forum", thus the gate is "already open", when how could it be possible that a person faithful to Srila BR Sridhar Maharaja, or Srila Govinda Maharaja's discipline would give their own "opinion" to contradict the black and white order of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja for his mission.

 

If there were indeed contrary orders their Guru gave in this regard, a sensitive disciple would never use that to contradict a Mahabhagavat Acharya like ACBSP's discipline in public in front of said Guru's disciples, especially knowing it is an open field.

 

But a fanatic neophyte would.

 

However so far, I have not even seen one of such people use a quote from their own Guru, or from ACBSP to contradict these plain directives to Iskcon's members.

 

They only speak out vehemently against it on the authority of their own speculation of what they think it means.

 

Perhaps, if they are actually disciples of such an esteemed pure devotee such as Srila Sridhar or Srila Govinda, they might approach their Guru for confirmation of their inkling that Srila Prabhupada did not mean what he said, before letting loose among those who follow such discipline and present it for other's consumption.

 

The open gate works both ways. Anyone may present their Guru's authorized point of view. And the only way under Vaisnava ettiquette to counter such an offered point of view is by quoting authority, otherwise, there is STILL AN INVISIBLE FENCE WHICH HAS BEEN VIOLATED. And I think that is plain as day.

[brajeshwara das]

Did Bhakta Devarsi get banned and that is my he is posting under so many Guest names? Just curious.

[Guest guest]

I doubt it because Bhakta Devarsi, though deviating from the Sastra, presented his arguments expertly and was well articulated. On the other hand, this guest doesn't have a clue what he's writing.

 

 

Did Bhakta Devarsi get banned and that is my he is posting under so many Guest names? Just curious.

[theist]

Frankly if the guest above would have been paying attention he would have noticed the clear fact that while quoting from of Srila Prabhupada's statements it is their spin on those statement's which is being challenged and not the quotes themselves.

 

I do not for one split second regonize the bhakti-king or bhakta mark as representatives of Srila Prabhupada despite their quotes. I find them and those that think like them to be wolves entered into the iskcon camp and are spreading their diseased ideas of meat eatting now being allowed for some members of iskcon.

 

The same quotes are presented over and over ad nauseum and the same errors keep being championed as belonging to Srila Prabhupada and express his new ideas on meat eating. Most people recognize this straight away as full blown ignorance but no doubt people can be fooled and hurt by hearing these ideas from what I suspect to be the animal killing branch of the ritvik tree.

[brajeshwara das]

 

Indeed I consider Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Maharaj to be an advanced devotee, but that is just my opinion. I believe that a disciple of Srila Prabhupada who makes a certain degree of advancement under his instructions may naturally find some of what SBRSM has to say in his books to be of some value in the course of time, without some follower of SBRSM needing to "try" and hook him into the mission.

 

It was the opinion of Srila Swami Maharaj as well.

 

To be of some value? Srila Swami Maharaj said specifically that Srila Sridhar Maharaj was Om Vishnupada, his siksa guru, "so what to speak of

the benefit that others can have from his association."

 

He wanted to bring others to Srila Sridhar Maharaj:

"Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur told me that Sridhar Maharaj is one of the finest preachers of Krishna consciousness in the world, so I wanted to take him everywhere. This was my earnest desire. But since he could not go around the world and preach, at least the people of the world should come to hear from him." Again: "So if one is actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, or instructing spiritual master, I can refer him to one who is the most competent of all my Godbrothers."Sridhar Maharaj is a pure devotee per Srila Swami Maharaj, your opinion doesn't matter:

"He was always my good advisor, and I took his advice very seriously because from the very beginning I knew that he was a pure devotee of Krishna. So, I wanted to associate with him. Krishna and Prabhupad, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, liked him to prepare me. Our relationship is very intimate."

 

 

]some of what SBRSM has to say in his books to be of some value in the course of time,

 

You try to minimize Guru here, why? Whether the Guru is in a thatched hut on the banks of the Ganga with one disciple or running a worldwide mission, if he is genuine it is Krishna Himself that is empowering him.

 

This is why I said to be careful not to cause offense to Guru Tatva, and why I posted the quote of Srila Swami Maharaj. Not to bring anyone to SCSMath but to eradicate the belief that there is one Guru of highest quality and all other manifestations of Guru are lesser. A true manifestation of Guru is a manifestation of Krishna, you really want to minimize Him?

 

I figured that you guys say to follow Srila Swami Maharaj's instructions 'black and white' but really you cherry pick, you add your emphasis for what is important to your agenda and minimize his words in other places. Was he insincere when speaking of Srila Sridhar Maharaj above? Is that what you are saying?

 

If Srila Swami Maharaj really intends for some disciples to eat meat I have absolutely no issue with that, but I don't think it is conclusive. One place it is mentioned and not specific to initiated disciples, the public was what was being discussed. If it really was his intention and as you say he spoke of it constantly for 4 years, surely you have more proof?

[theist]

 

Did Bhakta Devarsi get banned and that is my he is posting under so many Guest names? Just curious.

 

I didn't really notice his absence as I have been ignoring all posts by him and the bhakti-king. But I have begun to suspect these guests are him just trying to appear like supporters. But then why not? Since your philosophy is imaginary then it stands to reason your supporters would be also.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Frankly if the guest above would have been paying attention he would have noticed the clear fact that while quoting from of Srila Prabhupada's statements it is their spin on those statement's which is being challenged and not the quotes themselves.

 

I do not for one split second regonize the bhakti-king or bhakta mark as representatives of Srila Prabhupada despite their quotes. I find them and those that think like them to be wolves entered into the iskcon camp and are spreading their diseased ideas of meat eatting now being allowed for some members of iskcon.

 

The same quotes are presented over and over ad nauseum and the same errors keep being championed as belonging to Srila Prabhupada and express his new ideas on meat eating. Most people recognize this straight away as full blown ignorance but no doubt people can be fooled and hurt by hearing these ideas from what I suspect to be the animal killing branch of the ritvik tree.

 

More diatribe, no vani. No reposting the conversations I used as a common ground and proving your speaking from a Guru and not just personal concoctions of old conclutions. Try to keep up with the changes, eh!

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[bhaktatraveler]

 

It was the opinion of Srila Swami Maharaj as well.

 

To be of some value? Srila Swami Maharaj said specifically that Srila Sridhar Maharaj was Om Vishnupada, his siksa guru, "so what to speak of

the benefit that others can have from his association."

 

He wanted to bring others to Srila Sridhar Maharaj:

"Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur told me that Sridhar Maharaj is one of the finest preachers of Krishna consciousness in the world, so I wanted to take him everywhere. This was my earnest desire. But since he could not go around the world and preach, at least the people of the world should come to hear from him." Again: "So if one is actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, or instructing spiritual master, I can refer him to one who is the most competent of all my Godbrothers."Sridhar Maharaj is a pure devotee per Srila Swami Maharaj, your opinion doesn't matter:

"He was always my good advisor, and I took his advice very seriously because from the very beginning I knew that he was a pure devotee of Krishna. So, I wanted to associate with him. Krishna and Prabhupad, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, liked him to prepare me. Our relationship is very intimate."

 

 

 

You try to minimize Guru here, why? Whether the Guru is in a thatched hut on the banks of the Ganga with one disciple or running a worldwide mission, if he is genuine it is Krishna Himself that is empowering him.

 

This is why I said to be careful not to cause offense to Guru Tatva, and why I posted the quote of Srila Swami Maharaj. Not to bring anyone to SCSMath but to eradicate the belief that there is one Guru of highest quality and all other manifestations of Guru are lesser. A true manifestation of Guru is a manifestation of Krishna, you really want to minimize Him?

 

I figured that you guys say to follow Srila Swami Maharaj's instructions 'black and white' but really you cherry pick, you add your emphasis for what is important to your agenda and minimize his words in other places. Was he insincere when speaking of Srila Sridhar Maharaj above? Is that what you are saying?

 

If Srila Swami Maharaj really intends for some disciples to eat meat I have absolutely no issue with that, but I don't think it is conclusive. One place it is mentioned and not specific to initiated disciples, the public was what was being discussed. If it really was his intention and as you say he spoke of it constantly for 4 years, surely you have more proof?

 

It is asked where to do it and Prabhupada said in our centers, amoung our people. It is just to plan. Post the conversations yourself and show the deviations or why do you speak like a fool? SB 8.2.30 is also used, post it and give a conclusion in context to DVD.

 

Is any of the adversion, with no other prof but your mouth, the quality of a devotee? I have been called many ill names and made much fun of, but you guys have nothing but mouths and no substance.

 

Put up these conversations, as I did and give a reasonable retort or be known as ludricus.

 

CB-r

[brajeshwara das]

 

It is asked where to do it and Prabhupada said in our centers, amoung our people. It is just to plan. Post the conversations yourself and show the deviations or why do you speak like a fool? SB 8.2.30 is also used, post it and give a conclusion in context to DVD.

 

Is any of the adversion, with no other prof but your mouth, the quality of a devotee? I have been called many ill names and made much fun of, but you guys have nothing but mouths and no substance.

 

Put up these conversations, as I did and give a reasonable retort or be known as ludricus.

 

CB-r

 

Post where Srila Swami Maharaj says to eat meat in his centers, among his people.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Post where Srila Swami Maharaj says to eat meat in his centers, among his people.

 

Your rejection is sweet to my ears, that means sin is flowing out of the way for DVD to take birth, Just like Pritu Maharaja's apperance after bahukah, the embodyment of sin cleared the way.

 

Who can say if a cow is ever killed? I can. Want to know? Do you know? Do you read SB? Have fun on line. S-its and Giggles

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Post where Srila Swami Maharaj says to eat meat in his centers, among his people.

 

If I show you a thousand times, you will reject as many times. And you do not study the texts provided. So?

 

CB-r

[brajeshwara das]

 

If I show you a thousand times, you will reject as many times. And you do not study the texts provided. So?

 

CB-r

 

If you point at the sun a thousand times and say it is an orange, should I believe you? Enough is enough, enjoy your meat eating. Hari Bolo.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

If you point at the sun a thousand times and say it is an orange, should I believe you? Enough is enough, enjoy your meat eating. Hari Bolo.

 

Yes you are right, enough from you. Thank you.

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Post where Srila Swami Maharaj says to eat meat in his centers, among his people.

 

Post where Prabhupada says DON'T eat meat in His DVD centers? I say He has said OK and give evidence. You say no and give nothing. That you reject, I am also doing with your question, that has no prof submited that shows contrary understanding from, what I posted.

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Your rejection is sweet to my ears, that means sin is flowing out of the way for DVD to take birth, Just like Pritu Maharaja's apperance after bahukah, the embodyment of sin cleared the way.

 

Who can say if a cow is ever killed? I can. Want to know? Do you know? Do you read SB? Have fun on line. S-its and Giggles

 

CB-r

 

What about the killing a cow question? I asked you because you are so inteligent as to know all siddhanta and the meanings of everything I posted. And said I was all wrong. Surly you know if Srila Prabhupada has said such a thing. Please enlighten me. Anyone?

 

CB-r

[bija]

[bija]

I don't understand why you would want to shoot such a creature. His face is beautiful isn't it?

 

Bhaktatraveller, I remember as a child I was given my first gun at around nine years of age. Each year my father used to go away on shooting trips in the Outback of Australia. He used to bring home presents for me. Goat horns, goat skins, used bullets and things like that. In fact he still carries a two inch bullet hanging of his key ring.

 

I can remember as a child I used play in our back yard. Over the back fence there was paddocks to a river. So I used to go off hunting with my BB rifle and shoot birds. I still recall the last animal I shot. It was an australian magpie (no pun intended-or the FBI might get called:rolleyes:). They are quite a large bird, and very beautiful. After I shot it I walked up to it...it was gasping for breath as it lay dying. I think at that point (I was eleven years old) I realized that what my father was teaching me was not right. I looked into the magpies eyes, while it was dying, and it was looking back at me. I saw it's expression, it's agony and pain. I saw it was conscious and feeling. It is the last animal I ever shot.

 

Have you ever looked into the eyes of animals. Seen their internal expressions. Their consciousness, their minds, their feelings...their beauty.

 

Srila Prabhupada said this...Srila Prabhupada said that. Inability to back up with scripture, you continually say. It is all irrelevant once you see the beauty of the soul within. No need to back up with Prabhupada said...this and that.

 

I could post a picture of a big juicy deer steak (from google) with a side dish of potatoes and peas. But I am not that insensitive. Wake up Prabhu!

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I don't understand why you would want to shoot such a creature. His face is beautiful isn't it?

 

I'm asking the big scholars that rejected all I posted on DVD to test them a little bit or you, if you would like. I did not say shoot either, kill is the word I used. Kill a cow is the question. All the nay sayers especially. At least four I think there were. Yes? It is just mental exersize. Who's in?

 

CB-r

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I don't understand why you would want to shoot such a creature. His face is beautiful isn't it?

 

Bhaktatraveller, I remember as a child I was given my first gun at around nine years of age. Each year my father used to go away on shooting trips in the Outback of Australia. He used to bring home presents for me. Goat horns, goat skins, used bullets and things like that. In fact he still carries a two inch bullet hanging of his key ring.

 

I can remember as a child I used play in our back yard. Over the back fence there was paddocks to a river. So I used to go off hunting with my BB rifle and shoot birds. I still recall the last animal I shot. It was an australian magpie (no pun intended-or the FBI might get called:rolleyes:). They are quite a large bird, and very beautiful. After I shot it I walked up to it...it was gasping for breath as it lay dying. I think at that point (I was eleven years old) I realized that what my father was teaching me was not right. I looked into the magpies eyes, while it was dying, and it was looking back at me. I saw it's expression, it's agony and pain. I saw it was conscious and feeling. It is the last animal I ever shot.

 

Have you ever looked into the eyes of animals. Seen their internal expressions. Their consciousness, their minds, their feelings...their beauty.

 

Srila Prabhupada said this...Srila Prabhupada said that. Inability to back up with scripture, you continually say. It is all irrelevant once you see the beauty of the soul within. No need to back up with Prabhupada said...this and that.

 

I could post a picture of a big juicy deer steak (from google) with a side dish of potatoes and peas. But I am not that insensitive. Wake up Prabhu!

 

Nice story, Or to say sad story. I'm sorry you had to experience the death of anything.

 

Yes, I have looked into the eyes of death, what I have killed. It is for practice and beyond.

 

But you miss the point of DVD, thats OK too, I guess. Please do not post the picture, I have no attraction. Again you miss the point of ksatriya's practice. You will need to study SB, BG, conversations and chant 64 rounds a day for some time before you can understand it. Maybe Mahabharata too, Ganguli edition. Srila Prabhupada understood and gave it to me.

 

What about the cow killing? do you have an answer?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[bija]

 

Yes, I have looked into the eyes of death, what I have killed. It is for practice and beyond. quote by Caturbahu dasa.

 

What do you mean by 'for practice and beyond?'

[bhaktatraveler]

 

What do you mean by 'for practice and beyond?'

 

Beyond is application of practice.

 

CB-r