Preliminary Help for Meat eaters

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Who set up 'Ritvikism'? Prabhupada. So you are saying Prabhupada's own system that he set up divorces Prabhupada from his own guru-varga? lol what nonsense. And please stop using this bogus term 'ritviksim' as it is a pathetic atempt to make the bonafide Ritvik System the Prabhupada put in place seem like a concoction. The term 'ritvikism' is bogus and never used by Prabhupada.

 

 

 

Prejudiced?! Did Prabhupada also have a predudiced view when he gave orders not to associate with the Gaudia Math and that none of his godbrothers are qualified to be acharya? So following Prabhupada's orders is being predudiced and negative?

 

 

 

 

Right if your a Ritvik your a deerhunter now lol this is ludicrous!! utter madness!!

 

I know this is an off topic and I appologise.

 

Hare Krishna

 

Passion for Srila Prabhupada! I love it, it's like a gulabjaman.

 

CBr

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Just a theory but maybe these fanatics saw the movie "The Deer Hunter" from 1978. To me that movie illustrated the connection between animal killing and modern warfare. Of course the day after we saw the movie in Visalia we went shooting in Three Rivers. Boys will be boys and Ksatriyas will be kings. Oh well.

 

The jester has entered the court. Joker-raja

 

CBr

[Guest guest]

I was talking about you.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Ah, I never said Srila Swami Maharaj said that, it is the name of this thread, started by your buddy Bhakti Devarsi.

 

Yes, you did in post #111. And I posted more conversations snipits for your edification as who where and when. Have you looked? Post #114. Yes, you had to see.

 

 

CBr

[brajeshwara das]

 

Ah, but try and see that I have no interest in proving you wrong. If you have the evidence that clearly, without a doubt states that eating meat as an initiated disciple is bona fide then present it. I am willing to accept it, I have no sentimental feeling against killing, my body is a battlefield as I type this, but I neither slay nor am slain. That isn't the point. The question about if the Acharya intends his disciples to eat meat based on the conversation you quoted from 74, that is the question. I haven't seen enough to suggest that it is the case. Preliminary help extends how long? 30 years into your practicing life? Is this really what he wanted or is it that you are too charmed with the thought of being a mighty king, a ksatriya? He said if they are intelligent they will realize it isn't worth it. Please with an open heart consider this.

 

This is in no way quoting Srila Swami Maharaj.

[brajeshwara das]

 

Prabhupada: :Not he’s sudra. Always remember that. But he has to act to fulfill the, fill up the gap. Proxy.

 

 

Proxy. You are not a ksatriya. Say it; "I am not a ksatriya" now take a deep breath...

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Funny how those asking for proof of questionable claims are called fanatics. Kali Yuge in full force.

 

He has asked and been shown numerous times but rejects plan talk. And then says rediculous things in an attempt to discreadite Srila Prabhupada's plain words on the DVD subject. Again in post #114, I gave more. If I could post the whole conversation I would, it is just to big and doesn't post. All prof has been put forward.

 

The rejectable fanatic is the one that will not submit when shown evidence to countermaned his point.

 

The other fanatics are the cent-percent devotees of Krsna. Fanatic is not a bad word.

 

CBr

[Guest guest]

nothing surprises of anymore.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I was talking about you.

And I you

 

Post #114, read it.

 

CBr

[bhaktatraveler]

 

This is in no way quoting Srila Swami Maharaj.

 

Doesn't matter to me one way or an other. That's all fluff. Did you read post #114? Thats the real thing on my mind now with you. Did you read and what do you have to say?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti raja

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Proxy. You are not a ksatriya. Say it; "I am not a ksatriya" now take a deep breath...

 

Your cherry picking again and it is just a diversion, what about the rest?

 

CBr

[Guest guest]

That doesn't prove you have permission from Srila Prabhupada to eat meat. Let alone preach that you do. Only a fool would follow you.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

That doesn't prove you have permission from Srila Prabhupada to eat meat. Let alone preach that you do. Only a fool would follow you.

 

An other one? do you boys do tag team matches?

 

You could please read and post the part of the conversation that you think I have wrong?

 

Only a fool speaks with no support from sadhu/guru. You spoke with no support. The entire conversation is about introducing DVD in ISKCON. A 12 yrs old child can understand.

 

CBr

[Guest guest]

Burden of proof of outrageous claims is yours, not mine. So far it is very weak. One instance where eating meat was discussed. Not enough to risk eating meat, maybe for you but who else believes this? NOT ME!

[theist]

Reminds me of nine year old boys running around the neighborhood with a bow and those rubber tipped arrows that stick onto the target. In their minds they are playing out so many fantasies of grand exploits of saving damsels and slaying dragons and taking themselves so seriously.

[theist]

So now there is hope for meat eaters. Now because of his noticing a special instruction to him within Prabhupada's conversations, an instruction that is apparant only to him and one other, the meat eaters can now join the team.

 

Of course since 98% of Prabhupada's western disciples came from the meat eating class without worrying about their varna. Just the Holy name and prasadam was all medicine that Prabhupada gave them.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

So now there is hope for meat eaters. Now because of his noticing a special instruction to him within Prabhupada's conversations, an instruction that is apparant only to him and one other, the meat eaters can now join the team.

 

Of course since 98% of Prabhupada's western disciples came from the meat eating class without worrying about their varna. Just the Holy name and prasadam was all medicine that Prabhupada gave them.

 

You know, I don't think even one time have you posted a piece of a conversation that I posted and then had a civil discusion with either Bk Devarsi or Me on the matter. But you have been an excelent help.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti raja

[Guest guest]

 

So now there is hope for meat eaters. Now because of his noticing a special instruction to him within Prabhupada's conversations, an instruction that is apparant only to him and one other, the meat eaters can now join the team.

 

Of course since 98% of Prabhupada's western disciples came from the meat eating class without worrying about their varna. Just the Holy name and prasadam was all medicine that Prabhupada gave them.

 

The above post is in a thread under the topic of Spiritual Discussions.

 

As far as I know speculative assumptions like the ones in this last post by thiest without backup from authority of Guru sadhu or sastra do not consist of a bona fide method of discussing spiritual topics, but are acutally an affront to the endeavor, and a waste of our time and space in our efforts to advance in devotional service.

 

BG 17.15

 

 

When speaking in spiritual circles, one's statements must be upheld by the scriptures. One should at once quote from scriptural authority to back up what he is saying. At the same time, such talk should be very pleasurable to the ear. By such discussions, one may derive the highest benefit and elevate human society.

 

To hoping to gain spiritual knowledge by hearing, speculation is not so pleasing to the ear.

 

Hari Bol

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Burden of proof of outrageous claims is yours, not mine. So far it is very weak. One instance where eating meat was discussed. Not enough to risk eating meat, maybe for you but who else believes this? NOT ME!

 

All of Srila Prabhupada's vani, BG, SB conversations and lectures have the same discriptions and definitions of sudra and ksatriya. No difference, not an isolated occurrence. From 74 on Srila Prabhupada preached to instill this DVD in to ISKCON management, multiple times. There's a book of quotes with much more than I posted here. Get a book and read it.

 

Who beleives this? They are out there, they heard.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti raja

[brajeshwara das]

I just ran across this in my reading, and I know it isn't Srila Swami Maharaj Prabhupada's purport but thought it was worthwhile to add here:

 

 

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 11.21.17

samāna-karmācaraṇaḿ

patitānāḿ na pātakam

autpattiko guṇaḥ sańgo

na śayānaḥ pataty adhaḥ

 

SYNONYMS

good quality; samāna — equal; karma — of work; ācaraṇam — the performance; patitānām — for those who are fallen; na — is not; pātakam — a cause of falldown; autpattikaḥ — dictated by one's nature; guṇaḥ — becomes asańgaḥ — material association; na — does not; śayānaḥ — one who is lying down; patati — fall; adhaḥ — further down.

 

TRANSLATION

The same activities that would degrade an elevated person do not cause falldown for those who are already fallen. Indeed, one who is lying on the ground cannot possibly fall further. The material association that is dictated by one's own nature is considered a good quality.

 

PURPORT

The Lord here further describes the ambiguity in ascertaining material piety and sin. Although intimate association with women is most abominable for a renounced sannyāsī, the same association is pious for a householder, who is ordered by Vedic injunction to approach his wife at the suitable time for procreation. Similarly, a brāhmaṇa who drinks liquor is considered to be committing a most abominable act, whereas a śūdra, a low-class man, who can moderate his drinking is considered to be self-controlled. Piety and sin on the material level are thus relative considerations. Any member of society, however, who receives dīkṣā, initiation into the chanting of the Lord's holy names, must strictly obey the four regulative principles: no eating of meat, fish or eggs, no illicit sex, no intoxication and no gambling. A spiritually initiated person neglecting these principles will certainly fall from his elevated position of liberation.

 

[bhaktatraveler]

This purport is no more relevent that the author. None. He also said that Kirtananda was a pure devotee in one of his purports. People like him are going to the most abnoxious place in the universe as per Sri Isopanisad verse 12 purport. If you like it then by all means.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhatki Raja

[brajeshwara das]

 

This purport is no more relevent that the author. None. He also said that Kirtananda was a pure devotee in one of his purports. People like him are going to the most abnoxious place in the universe as per Sri Isopanisad verse 12 purport. If you like it then by all means.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhatki Raja

 

I wasn't giving the purport any backing (though I personally agree with it), I knew and made sure it was known that it wasn't from Srila Swami Maharaj. How to deal with these last cantos where less than a pure devotee is giving the purports? Hmm especially when it may be far less.

[theist]

I love the 11th canto. I take the translations and purports as coming from intelligent vaisnava academic(s). The truth of anything from any source must be confirmed by the Supersoul. Until we receive that confirmation we are still in the belief and speculative zone.

[brajeshwara das]

 

I love the 11th canto. I take the translations and purports as coming from intelligent vaisnava academic(s). The truth of anything from any source must be confirmed by the Supersoul. Until we receive that confirmation we are still in the belief and speculative zone.

 

Of course Prabhu. I'm sorry if I sounded like I doubt the translations and purports. I just know if I tried to use that as evidence some would balk at it.

[Guest guest]

Yes, we can all look forward to an endless amount of "explanations" of the meaning of the Bhagavatam by "intelligent academics".

 

As long as they are so qualified by dint of their "intelligence" and ability and impress modern academia with their brilliant theoretical speculation, what does it matter if they disagree with a few instructions of their Diksa Guru here or there?

 

Imagine, lifetime after lifetime of newer and slightly different and contradictory interpretations of the Holy scriptures. Pure bliss.