Why is Hare Krishna the true Religion?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Without quoting the original thread, the answer to the question about killing to live is this:

 

Yes, in order to maintain these material bodies, we must kill. Whether it is the microbes we inhale or the carrots we pull from the ground, there is predation. When we are acting as sense-enjoyers, we will accrue Karma (reaction) for every action we take. Guru teaches that, when we dedicate all our actions to the Lord, including preparing and offering foodstuffs to the Lord that are palatable to Him, that we do *not* accrue Karma--the Lord takes all Karma. That's a simple explanation. Do inquire further if that is unclear.

 

As for the Bible supporting vegetarianism, that is clear in Genesis:

 

http://bible.cc/genesis/1-29.htm

 

NASB: Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; (NASB ©1995)<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1">GWT: God said, "I have given you every plant with seeds on the face of the earth and every tree that has fruit with seeds. This will be your food. (GOD'S WORD®)<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1">KJV: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1">ASV: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food:<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1">BBE: And God said, See, I have given you every plant producing seed, on the face of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit producing seed: they will be for your food:<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1">DBY: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb producing seed that is on the whole earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree producing seed: it shall be food for you;<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1">JPS: And God said: 'Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed--to you it shall be for food;<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1">WBS: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food.<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1">WEB: God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree, which bears fruit yielding seed. It will be your food.<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1">YLT: And God saith, 'Lo, I have given to you every herb sowing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree sowing seed, to you it is for food;

 

Whichever translation you prefer, the meaning is abundantly clear. This was God's original instruction. If memory serves, it was not until after the Flood that God mentions anything about eating meat. Also interesting to note is that, in the Bible, life-spans consistently go *down* as time progresses. Coincidence?

 

The fact is, Vaishnavas (Hare Krishnas) are *not* vegetarians. They are "Prasada-tarians". They only wish to eat foodstuffs that have been offered to Krishna, and Krishna is very clear about what he likes to be offered.

 

Being a vegetarian is a natural step for a devotee of Krishna, but it is certainly not a requirement for chanting the Holy Names. In fact, to encourage Westerners to come and learn, my Guru's Guru's Guru had said that meat could be brought in from outside restaurants for guests who were accustomed to eating thusly.

 

There's much more to say on other topics raised here. I hope to return when I have a moment.

 

Dear Guest--kindly forgive my Godbrother's for their anger. No doubt, they are sensitive to having their faith assaulted (in however polite a manner).

 

Gauranga!!!

 

One last note: rather than try each religion for six months, why not look at the practitioners of each faith and then follow the faith that has the most happy, fulfilled, dedicated, honest and straightforward followers.

 

Ultimately, as the Bible agrees, we need the Grace of God to make any advancement. By our own Works alone, we cannot be saved (yeah, I know, Christians disagree on this point).

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

You are lucky that most Christians that you know also believe that Muslims, Hindus and Jews will go to Heaven one day. From my experience and awareness I suspect that this may be an isolated case.

This begs the question: what is "Heaven"? According to Guru, this material world is but a small, dark corner of existence. Everything else is Heaven.

 

One word for Heaven is Vaikuntha. "Vaikuntha" means "without limits".

 

Without limits!!!

 

So, Guru teaches that, if one faithfully follows the teachings of Jesus, upon death, one will attain the plane of Jesus and will associate with their Lord and fellow Christians.

 

Within Gaudiya Vaishnavism there are many heavens. There is a heaven where one can worship God in a mood of awe and reverence. The *sweetest* Heaven, though (what use is there in talking of "higher" when that concept is relative), is said to be Goloka, where one can *play* with God eternally.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

"For God so loved the World, that he gave his ONLY Begotten Son, that whosever believes IN HIM, should not perish, but have everlasting life."

- John 3:16

 

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man comes to the Father, but by me."

- John 14:6

 

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God IS eternal life thru Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

OK, let's look at this logically. Not included in these quotes (but included elsewhere in this thread?): I and my Father are one.

 

So, if Jesus is one with his Father, and his father is the one, true God, and Krishna is another name for the one, true God (within Whom everything is contained and Who can take any Form He pleases), then, yes, "no man comes to the Father, but by me" also includes coming to the Father through Krishna.

 

If the limitations of the Christians' vision prevents them from seeing that, that is *their* problem, is it not? How does it become a problem for the Vaishnava?

 

Science has long searched for the Grand Unified Theory. God *is* the Grand Unified Theory. God is able to harmonize *everything*.

 

In particular, the Vedic literature is so unbelievably rich with spiritual and scientific knowledge. One of my favorite examples is the depiction of Maha-Vishnu (who is non-different from the Father and Krishna) lying in the causal ocean sleeping. As He exhales, innumerrable universes issue from His Nose. As he inhales all of the manifest creation is destroyed.

 

In science, this is called the Closed-System Big Bang theory, but, while scientists attribute creation to chance, the Vaishnava sees the hand of God in everything.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Interesting views, it is sinful to eat animals, but yet animals eat other animals all the time so are they also sinners? Can anyone here prove the idea of being reborn as a animal? Or is that just cannonized religious dogma they just believe for whatever reasons? A simple yes of no answer to a yes or no question.

 

As for Jesus the fellow never existed and the Christian Bible is a fraud stolen from other religions much more ancient. So since the premise is false the teachings are moot, as they rest on real Divine authority.

 

The word "sin" is so loaded with guilt, etc., that I prefer not to use it.

 

"Karma" is a better word. It refers to the spiritual extension of the basic law of physics that: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

 

So, no, it is not "sinful" for a carnivore to eat another animal, just as it is not sinful for *you* to do so. However, both the carnivore and *you* (who have neither the intestines, nor the teeth/jaw structure of a carnivore) *will* get a reaction for your actions.

 

As for asking for proof of transmigration, let me again quote physics: energy can neither be created nor destroyed, merely transformed. So, if you grant the assumption that our essential nature is energetic, then, our essential nature is eternal.

 

If you want proof beyond that, I ask you a question: can you prove that *you* exist? No. Ultimately, beneath any logical system or method, there are assumptions and/or faith.

 

Since you're asking for proof, kindly provide evidence for your final assertion regarding Jesus and the Bible. Or are we to take that from you on faith? I know this may seem contradictory in light of the previous paragraph, but granted that there will always be underlying assumptions in any thesis and that we must have faith that evidence presented is indeed valid, we can still try to have a reasonable discussion here.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

1. Go back to the original Hebrew text. The word does not mean kill, but murder. You will see this reflecting soon in English translations. It is probably already out in some international translations.

Ah! If only we *could* go back to the original Hebrew text. How many times has it been copied, miscopied, edited, etc.?

 

Vaishnavism teaches that, in this material world, even Divine teachings, over time will become corrupted, and that the Lord Himself will descend to set things straight. This is how the Vaishnavas view Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who appeared 500 or so years ago.

 

Regardless of that, and regardless of the (US) legal definition of murder, *I* most certainly consider killing an innocent cow for food to be murder!!! I imagine there are many who would agree.

 

That said, under the wider umbrella of "Hinduism", there is even accomodation for slaughter of animals. While it is said that Krishna will not accept offerings of meat, Goddess Durga (another aspect of the One God) *will* accept such offerings from her servants [though cow-slaughter is generally not accepted by any Hindu].

 

My Gurudev even once joked: If you must take whisky, at least offer it to Durga first.

 

So, to the Vaishnava, God is all-accomodating and all-merciful (even when He is killing "demons"). Many of us who are familiar with various religious traditions (I went to a Catholic High School and sang in the choir) see in the Gaudiya Vaishnava conception the most profound expression of the Love and Mercy of the Lord.

 

Hope this helps!! I'm off into the surreal world.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

You say "all scriptures lead to the same goal" and then you also interpret Chirstianity to be supporting vegeterian views. I am not saying you are wrong in your interpretation of the Christian scriptures. However your interpretation definitely disagrees with 99.99% of Christians' interpretation of these scriptures.

Seventh Day Adventists, of whom there are over 14 million according to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

interpret Christianity to support vegetarian views. From the passage bellow, you can see that so do the Mormons (we have a Mormon running for President at the moment), of whom there are about 13 million.

 

Additionally, the Catholic (1.1 billion) and Orthodox (220-300 million) branches of Christianity obviously see vegetarianism as a virtue given the Lenten fast from meat (yes, fish on Fridays, and Catholics don't fast from meat for Lent anymore, but you get the idea).

 

So, figuring 2.1 billion Christians worldwide, the Mormons and Adventists make up close to 1.3% and your math is way off.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_vegetarianism

 

 

The Seventh-day Adventists present a health message that recommends vegetarianism and expects abstinence from pork, shellfish and other foods proscribed as "unclean" in Leviticus.

The Word of Wisdom is a dietary law given to adherents of the Latter Day Saint movement (also known as Mormonism) which says that meat and fowl "are to be used sparingly; And ... that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." Not given as advice, this commandment is reiterated in the same section, "And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger."<sup id="_ref-0" class="reference">[1]</sup> (See also animals in the LDS Church).

All Eastern Orthodox Church monastics also refrain completely from meat, and many abstain from dairy and seafood. Eastern Orthodox Christians, laity and monastics, abstain from animal products on Wednesdays and Fridays, and during Lent and Advent. This is not for environmental or animal welfare reasons, but for spiritual reasons. There is a concept that especially meat can induce unwanted "passion," the disposition to sin.

Some Charismatics believe raw veganism was the original diet of humankind in the form of Adam and Eve, and if they are ever to return to an Eden-like paradise then they will have to return to a similar diet (see Hallelujah diet). A "diet of Paradise" doctrine also appears in Orthodox Christianity [1].

In some Christian communities fasting, for example during Lent, resembles a kind of vegetarianism since meat and dairy products are forbidden. For some groups, seafood is permitted during these periods of fasting. A basic difference to other forms of vegetarianism is that Lent has spiritual connotation, not environmental or animal welfare reasons. Also, abstaining from meat and dairy products during Lent is intended to be temporary, lasting only until the season is over, not a permanent way of life.

[Sarva gattah]

VERY INTERESTING I become a vegetarian with them in 1965

[Dharma Nation]

Do Hare Krsnas say that their's is the only true religion?

 

 

I am looking for a couple of simple and clear reasons for why anyone would consider the Hare Krishna movement to be the most truthful understanding of what God wants from us. Why would I commit my life to the Hare Krishna movement as opposed to any other Religion?

[theist]

 

Do Hare Krsnas say that their's is the only true religion?

 

No the only true religion is love of God. Someone can chant and glorify any true name of God that they are attracted to. No problem.

[Guest guest]

 

No the only true religion is love of God. Someone can chant and glorify any true name of God that they are attracted to. No problem.

 

Do you actually beleive this, theist? And why would chanting be a neccessary factor to determine if a religion is true or not?

 

I know Mayavadins who love God and chant Bhajans. But you would not call that true religion.

 

There are Shaivas and Shaktas who do not see Krishna as a supreme power as you do. You would not accept them as genuine paths either.

 

The list is long, but after hasing everything out in detail, it will become obvious that a Hare Krishna cannot consider other paths as genuine. Nothing wring with that approach in my opinion as most religious paths take that stance.

 

Cheers

[theist]

 

Do you actually beleive this, theist? And why would chanting be a neccessary factor to determine if a religion is true or not?

 

I know Mayavadins who love God and chant Bhajans. But you would not call that true religion.

 

There are Shaivas and Shaktas who do not see Krishna as a supreme power as you do. You would not accept them as genuine paths either.

 

The list is long, but after hasing everything out in detail, it will become obvious that a Hare Krishna cannot consider other paths as genuine. Nothing wring with that approach in my opinion as most religious paths take that stance.

 

Cheers

 

Hi Shiv,

 

You are correct, I was only speaking of personalists. Love of God is impossible for those that don't accept God's existence like Mayavadi's etc.

 

I do consider their path spiritual in the general sense as opposed to material because they aim to contact Krsna as His aura but that is a far cry from love for Him.