guru tattwa as it is

[mahak]

Haribol, I wont be speaking much here, my intent is to show the glories of the First Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, and allow Srila Prabhupada to teach in context with his wonderful masterpiece. I suppose I could be accused of cutting and pasting here, so I simply reply that one read the entire chapters in which these selected verses are taken from. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.1.8

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

And because you are submissive, your spiritual masters have endowed you with all the favors bestowed upon a gentle disciple. Therefore you can tell us all that you have scientifically learned from them.

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

The secret of success in spiritual life is in satisfying the spiritual master and thereby getting his sincere blessings. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has sung in his famous eight stanzas on the spiritual master as follows: "I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master. Only by his satisfaction can one please the Personality of Godhead, and when he is dissatisfied there is only havoc on the path of spiritual realization." It is essential, therefore, that a disciple be very much obedient and submissive to the bona fide spiritual master. Srila Suta Gosvami fulfilled all these qualifications as a disciple, and therefore he was endowed with all favors by his learned and self-realized spiritual masters such as Srila Vyasadeva and others. The sages of Naimisharanya were confident that Srila Suta Gosvami was bona fide. Therefore they were anxious to hear from him.

[mahak]

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.1.22

 

TRANSLATION

 

We think that we have met Your Goodness by the will of providence, just so that we may accept you as captain of the ship for those who desire to cross the difficult ocean of Kali, which deteriorates all the good qualities of a human being.

 

PURPORT

 

The age of Kali is very dangerous for the human being. Human life is simply meant for self-realization, but due to this dangerous age, men have completely forgotten the aim of life. In this age, the life span will gradually decrease. People will gradually lose their memory, finer sentiments, strength, and better qualities. A list of the anomalies for this age is given in the Twelfth Canto of this work. And so this age is very difficult for those who want to utilize this life for self-realization. The people are so busy with sense gratification that they completely forget about self-realization. Out of madness they frankly say that there is no need for self-realization because they do not realize that this brief life is but a moment on our great journey towards self-realization. The whole system of education is geared to sense gratification, and if a learned man thinks it over, he sees that the children of this age are being intentionally sent to the slaughterhouses of so-called education. Learned men, therefore, must be cautious of this age, and if they at all want to cross over the dangerous ocean of Kali, they must follow the footsteps of the sages of Naimisharanya and accept Sri Suta Gosvami or his bona fide representative as the captain of the ship. The ship is the message of Lord Sri Krishna in the shape of Bhagavad-gita or the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

mahaksadasa: I never said I wouldnt say anything, but being as this is my all-time favorite verse from Bhagavatam, I have to sing my two songs based on this verse. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, the captain.

 

 

 

<CENTER>Mercy Ship c.1993, mahaksadasa </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER>You came into my life from oh so far,

Riding through my mind in Subhadra's car,

Without a single purpose but to save the world.

Your Song has mor power than all the missles they have hurled.

 

All the holy men came to show the way.

</CENTER><CENTER>

Many people listened to what they had to say.

Some of them insane, some just went to other things,

Not knowing the difference between soldiers and Kings.

 

</CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER>They wanted to steal my mind, take away my land,

A trade for a philosophy no one can understand.

They prey on people' greed, take advantage of their fear.

They say anything the people want to hear.

 

 

</CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER>Tricks, treachery, cheap words, and smiling nods,

Are needed to convince the ignorant they are gods.

Crime, poverty, death, gods exposed as fools,

Tossed around like ants into giant whirlpools.

 

 

</CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER>But You did not come to advertize Your name.

You had no pressing needs to strive for selfish fame.

You have what you are given, and to me You bring,

Matchless Gifts, if I would only dance and sing.

 

 

</CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER>You have gone back to Vrndavana, left me all alone,

On these streets of Armageddon, weary to the bone.

Yet You leave Your loving Lifeline, waiting for my grip.

Through these dreadful waters, You guide the Mercy Ship.

 

Captain c.1983 mahaksadasa

</CENTER><CENTER>

 

 

In the middle of this ocean, I am shipwrecked in terror.

Both arms are broken, I am burning in the sun.

I see in the distance, I know You are coming,

But wave after wave, I am surely done.

 

Navigator, O Captain of the ship!

Please pick me up, carry me along.

Throw me the lifeline, I will wrap it around me.

Please pick me up, carry me along.

 

How did I get here, what caused this trouble?

Could it have been this craving in my heart?

Was I on the beach, did I fall from the sky?

Have I always been alone, where did it start?

 

Navigator, O Captain of the ship!

Please pick me up, carry me along.

Throw me the lifeline, I will wrap it around me.

Please pick me up, carry me along.

 

I know only wrong, I write cynical songs,

Yet You give me the lifeline though I am drowning alone.

You don't have a throng, yet You always help me along.

Navigator, Master, Your boat is so strong.

 

Navigator, O Captain of the ship!

Please pick me up, carry me along.

Throw me the lifeline, I will wrap it around me.

Please pick me up, carry me along. </CENTER>

 

Hare Krsna, ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Hari Bolo.

 

This part jumped out at me.

 

"It is essential, therefore, that a disciple be very much obedient"

 

It seems that it would follow that one who was disobedient would actually not be qualified, in reality, to understand Guru tattva.

 

But I was wondering if any of you thought it might be possible that one could understand Guru tattva and still be disobedient to their Guru.

 

The poster of this thread only presented Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami;s take on Guru tattva, we know he is qualified to speak on it.

 

It would be nice if the poster would post each and every verse, in succession that dealt with Guru tattva. That way nothing would be left out. For there is so much to say, and so many angles of vision which are gradually revealled as to the lofty subject of Guru Tattva.

 

And of course the most efficient way to absorb and realize what we read especially the Creme de la Creme of Vedic Puranas, the Srimad Bhagavatam is to start at the beginning and read it from cover to cover

 

SB 1.3.28

 

"The Bhägavatam relates these transcendental pastimes in the Tenth Canto. And in order to reach the position to understand the transcendental nature of Lord Krishna's pastimes with the gopis, the Bhägavatam promotes the student gradually in nine other cantos."

 

So a reasonable person could infer that there is some correlation between the arrangements the Lord makes for our sake of experience in life as time goes by and the way we are obedient to the instruction to read from the beginning and be promoted gradually to the goal. We may feel urgent with greed for more transcendental realizations, thats natural, but the only way to get em is gradually. A shadow of vipralumba.

 

Now considering this other injunction from Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami, from his book, The Elevation to Krsna Consciousness, Chap. 2 "the hard struggle for happiness"

 

"The complexities of the actions and the reactions of the diverse energies of the Absolute Truth constitute the subject matter of a vast science called the transcendental science of God, and the Bhagavad-Gita is the ABC or primary book of knowledge for students interested in that science."

And considering that the actions of the Guru are 100% representative of the Guru energy of the absolute truth, Sri Krsna, as personally manifested by his brother Sri Balarama/Lord Nityananda, the Original Spiritual Master and Guru of us all....

Teahings of Lord Caitanya, Intro:

"After offering obeisances to the disciplic succession, the author pays obeisances to all other devotees, Godbrothers, the expansions of Godhead and the first manifestation of Krsna's energy. Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu (sometimes called Krsna Caitanya) is the embodiment of all of these; He is God, guru, devotee and the expansion of God. As His associate Nityänanda, He is the first manifestation of energy."

Krsna Book, 1-2 : Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb.

Lord Nityananda, who is Balarama Himself, the first direct manifestation or expansion of Krsna, is the original spiritual master. He helps Lord Krsna in His pastimes, and He is a servant of the Lord.

By the order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Nityananda Prabhu arranged for Vyasa-puja of the Lord on the night of the full moon. He arranged for the Vyasa-puja, or guru-puja, through the agency of Vyasadeva. Since Vyasadeva is the original guru (spiritual master) of all who follow the Vedic principles, worship of the spiritual master is called Vyasa-puja. Nityananda Prabhu arranged for the Vyasa-puja, and sankirtana was going on, but when He tried to put a garland on the shoulder of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He saw Himself in Lord Caitanya. There is no difference between the spiritual positions of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu, or Krsna and Balarama. All of Them are but different manifestations of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. During this special ceremony, all the devotees of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu could understand that there is no difference between Lord Caitanya and Nityananda Prabhu.

In the Upanisads it is stated, Nayam atma bala hinena labhya. The purport is that one cannot attain the Supreme or any form of self-realization without being sufficiently favored by Balarama. Bala does not mean physical strength. No one can attain spiritual perfection by physical strength. One must have the spiritual strength which is infused by Balarama or Sankarsana. Ananta or Sesa is the power which sustains all the planets in their different positions. Materially this sustaining power is known as the law of gravitation, but actually it is the display of the potency of Sankarsana. Balarama or Sankarsana is spiritual power, or the original spiritual master. Therefore Lord Nityananda Prabhu, who is also the incarnation of Balarama, is the original spiritual master. And the spiritual master is the representative of Balarama, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who supplies spiritual strength. In the Caitanya-caritamrta it is confirmed that the spiritual master is the manifestation of the mercy of Krsna.

Ergo, the Guru's potency is there because he is one with the energy of Krsna's mercy.

So a person's understanding of Guru Tattva begins to unfold when one identifies who is able to represent Lord Balarama, and it is claimed that the lessons one must follow in order to undertstand this gradually are present and available for one who first reads the Bhagavad Gita, then the Srimad Bhagavatam, in order. Gradually.

So if one has already chosen to inquire of Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, if they follow his instructions on the matter of understanding Guru Tattva, reading his books in order, remaining in their natural position of life, and associating with pure devotees regarding spiritual topics, then they will gradually come to see if the good Swami is the Guru he claims to be, and will also be sure to be able to determine who else might be worthy of the title, and who is not.

Guru tattva in a nutshell. If you already dig Srila Prabhupada, just read his books in order, and Lord Krsna will use his Guru energy to work with you in a unique way for you, at a unique pace for you, and you don't have to put yourself at the feet of someone of questionable knowledge on the subject and take a chance that they can inform you of who is guru and who is not, you get to go with your own flow, and the flow of the lessons in the books.

The words in the Acharya's books carry the Sruti, the wave of transcendental vibration which supports the creation, and the instructions within are also the surfboard to ride it, and surf it home. Catch a new and fresh wave everyday in the transcendental ocean.

Hare Krsna

[mahak]

Servant of the guest stated " It would be nice if the poster would post each and every verse, in succession that dealt with Guru tattva. That way nothing would be left out. For there is so much to say, and so many angles of vision which are gradually revealled as to the lofty subject of Guru Tattva.

 

And of course the most efficient way to absorb and realize what we read especially the Creme de la Creme of Vedic Puranas, the Srimad Bhagavatam is to start at the beginning and read it from cover to cover".

 

mahaksadasa: Thank you. On my thread titled "context", I make the same point. Merely placing convenient quotes to prove a point not only fails to prove the point, it makes us think that the person disrespects us in the sense that we cannot delve into this science. So the mad quoters do all the discerning for us, and actually pretends to be our guru.

 

The method Srila Prabhupada emphasizes is that we take His effort (that of the massive presentation of the Science of Bhagavatam he has performed) seriously, the way it has been given, etc. I am posting convenient verses from first canot, but I strongly recommend that the reader use the book, not my citations, to discern the truth.

 

Servant of the guest speaks of obedience, and understanding of the absolute truth (tattwa) is linked to obedience to Guru, and also is linked to pleasing him. I propose that nothing is understood by reading snippets from Srila Prabhupada's discussions with some of his disciples on a myriad of issues, some only pertaining to the disciples he is speaking to. Nothing is understood by reading a paragraph of a purport from the eighth canto. Why? Because this is not obedience to Srila Prabhupada, who has often declared that we take this science step by step, from Bhagavad gita as it is thru Nectar of Instruction. Bhagavad gita can be understood only when one accepts Krsna as the supreme personality of Godhead. Bhagavad gita has no meaning if Krsna is seen as an ordinary philosopher on a battlefield.

 

This science is systematic, and context is everything. When Bhagavad Gita is complete, the devotee student has surrendered to the Supreme Person, Krsna, and has abandoned his religious quest. Srila Prabhupada then gives us the next step, Srimad Bhagavatam, where we actually learn the name, fame, associates, etc, of Lord Krsna in his various incarnations.

 

The first canto of Srimad Bhagavatam is a journey thru the surrendering process. Bhagavad Gita has us at the point of surrender, and First Canto is the graduate study, the story of acceptance of a spiritual master. The sages at naimisaranya accept the authority of Suta Goswami, who is a disciple of Vyasadeva. They hear of Krsnas pastimes thru this direct incarnation of Supersoul. Lord Balarama has empowered Suta directly, has placed him on the vyasasana. Thru this first canto, we find devotee frustration solved by the spiritual master, and the canto ends with a devotee on the doorstep of Death accepting Srila Sukadeva as his only hope.

 

Thanks, servant of the guest, for your informative post here. Just a suggestion, pick a real name so we can relate to you. Anonymity has no value and actually is not very good in terms of the study of Nectar of Instruction. Devotees must confide in each other, we must share, place everything on the table. We do not hide. Your choice, but life aint worth living in hiding.

 

I tried a psuedonym once, it lasted about two weeks, but even in the second post, I revealed who I was. I like the truth I tell, because all the truth comes from my guru maharaja. The lies I tell only belong to me, and I stand always ready to be corrected. And because there is a certain amout of nectar to be gleaned by being corrected by one more advanced than myself, I like the lies I tell as well. And for ten years + on this internet format, I have always been mahaksadasa (much to the dismay of the other Mahaksa Das). No fear, Im an old Hoyt Axton fan. This folk hero used to quip "If this song offends you, I am sorry. Sorry you are so &^$ #@*&$% sensitive".

 

Hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[astrobhadauria]

First Guru my mother,she genrate my body,

Second Guru my father,always with me,

Third Guru is my teacher,who teach me talk,

Fourth Guru is my mind,that allowed my walk.

 

Place of first Guru in my heart,

Second Guru always with my name,

Third Guru in School,busy in teach,

Fourth Guru in my head,like a RAM.

 

Save of body like a Car,

Mind is stairing,Education is drive.

Four Vedas are wheels,Purana s are parts,

Gita is driver,Soul is live.

 

World is market,parents are seller,

Cost of body,maintain by retailers,

For type Values in the Market,

How many cost,words declairs.

 

Cost of religion,free in this world.

Cost of money,very heavy in world.

Cost of genration,out of market.

Cost of peace,everyone finding.