Srila Swami Maharaj Prabhupada's vision for Varnashrama Colleges?

[brajeshwara das]

I an attempt to get the discussions here about what some lovingly call 'DVD' on some higher ground I thought a discussion about what Srila Swami Maharaj Prabhupada's vision for the Varnashrama College would be should prove productive. Please keep this to the Colleges only (not greater ISKCON or mainland China etc) and post any quotes you have regarding how these should be set up. My desire here is for this thread to be in service to Srila Swami Maharaj, so please let's not bicker.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

 

Srila Swami Maharaj

 

 

I also do not wish to bicker. But please why do you refer to Srila Prabhupada as 'Srila Swami Maharaja'?

 

I personally find this offensive, as the very name takes away Prabhupada unique position as the Founder Acharya of Iskcon who's books are the law books for the nest 10 tousand years. It implies that Prabhupada is just another 'Swami'.

 

Wy can you not refer to His Divine Grace as Srila Prabhupada?

[Beggar]

 

I also do not wish to bicker. But please why do you refer to Srila Prabhupada as 'Srila Swami Maharaja'?

 

I personally find this offensive, as the very name takes away Prabhupada unique position as the Founder Acharya of Iskcon who's books are the law books for the nest 10 tousand years. It implies that Prabhupada is just another 'Swami'.

 

Why can you not refer to His Divine Grace as Srila Prabhupada?

Here's the challenge, Guestbhakta - Quote one place in Prabhupada's books where he says that his "books are the law books for the next 10 thousand years". You won't find it if you have a super-computer and search for the next 10 thousand years because such a statement by Prabhupada does not exist. How many other beliefs do you have about Prabhupada that are not based on any reality?

[brajeshwara das]

 

I also do not wish to bicker. But please why do you refer to Srila Prabhupada as 'Srila Swami Maharaja'?

 

I personally find this offensive, as the very name takes away Prabhupada unique position as the Founder Acharya of Iskcon who's books are the law books for the nest 10 tousand years. It implies that Prabhupada is just another 'Swami'.

 

Wy can you not refer to His Divine Grace as Srila Prabhupada?

 

I refer to my own Gurudeva as 'Srila Govinda Maharaj', do you think I intend offense by calling a Vaisnava by his sanyassa name? Prabhupada is how Srila Swami Maharaj's disciples refer to him. To me it is like calling my cousin's father 'daddy'. In the Vaisnava songs we sing Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati is Prabhupada. I'm in His line, so it is appropriate to call Him Prabhupada. So in my mind this has kept who's who straight. No disrespect is intended, if it makes you happy I'll call Him Srila AC Bhativedanta Swami Maharaj Prabhupada from now on. Though that is a bit much to type

[brajeshwara das]

 

When Abhay Charanaravinda das accepted the name "Bhaktisiddhanta das" from his godbrother Srila Bhaktisaranga Goswami, did his other godbrothers attack him for being "reinitiated"?

 

I don't know, but this thread has gotten off to a bad start The topic should be about the Varnashrama Colleges, not what name some use to call Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

[mahak]

There are early disciples of Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami who call him Swamiji, and he never corrected them or rejected them.. Srila Prabhupada also did not name himself Prabhupada, his disciples did. Because he is also the servant of his disciples, he allows them to call him Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada does not appear to glorify his name, his mission is to glorify Krsnas Names. Let Maharsi, Meher Baba, Satya Sai Baba, and Swami Muktinanad worry about their names, Srila AC Bhaktivedanta is about Krsnas Names.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS Braj may call him any name, if he calls Krsnas name, Srila Prabhupada will be very pleased with him

[Guest guest]

It is not offensive to call a disciple by the name his guru gave him.

 

"Swami" is not just a generic title; it is specifically one of the 108 authorized sannyasa-names given by Gaudiya Matha gurus. It is no less glorious or specific or authentic than "Sridhara" or "Tirtha" or "Madhava" or "Govinda" or "Puri" or various other names.

 

It does, however, create one bit of awkwardness when presented in conventional English syntax, as "Swami" is typically used as a prefix. Thus:

 

Swami B.R. Sridhara

Swami B.S. Govinda

Swami B.P. Puri

 

...but...

 

Swami B.V. Swami

 

Prabhupada himself once wrote to a disciple about the awkwardness this caused; it's why he liked to use the prefix "Tridandi Goswami" instead of merely "Swami."

 

Names ultimately must serve the preaching mission. Years ago, I remember a disciple of Srila Sridhara Maharaja explaining that his guru had originally planned to give him the sannyasa-name "Muni" -- but he then explained to his guru that in the West, people hearing that word would think it was "Moonie" and his preaching would be less effective. So Srila Sridhara Maharaja consented to change his name to "Mahayogi" instead of "Muni."

[Guest guest]

And the moral of the story is that although we are not the body, and upon having a glimpse of that and accepting some discipline from a Spiritual Master we are actually at least neophyte Vaisnava...

 

We are to play roles in society which approximate the activities of members of a society which follows Varnasrama Dharma.

 

Only in this case, that set of rules and regulations only approximates the full stricture of the Vedic canon, due to the adjustment made for time place and circumstance, Kali Yuga.

 

Thus the word "Daiva" is placed before Varnasrama Dharma, to indicate that a fully liberated acharya is dispensing the particular form V.D. will take for the time period he instructs that it be followed and acted on by the Vaisnava's making gradual advancement to Krishna Prema under his care.

 

 

SB 5.1.24 purport.

 

Sometimes we are criticized because although I am a sannyasi, I have taken part in the marriage ceremonies of my disciples. It must be explained, however, that since we have started a Krsna conscious society and since a human society must also have ideal marriages, to correctly establish an ideal society we must take part in marrying some of its members, although we have taken to the path of renunciation. This may be astonishing to persons who are not very interested in establishing daiva-varnasrama, the transcendental system of four social orders and four spiritual orders. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, however, wanted to reestablish daiva-varnasrama. In daiva-varnasrama there cannot be acknowledgement of social status according to birthright because in Bhagavad-gita it is said that the determining considerations are guna and karma, one’s qualities and work. It is this daiva-varnasrama that should be established all over the world to continue a perfect society for Krsna consciousness. This may be astonishing to foolish critics, but it is one of the functions of a Krsna conscious society.

 

So we who knew nought of such a system, get the full yet abbreviated rendition from the empowered and liberated Acarya, who decides which of the stages of sanyassa will be emphasized in his mission, which titles will be best for preaching, etc.

 

Just to fulfill the general but pointed desire of his Guru, and his Guru's dear Father, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada initiated the "perfect society for Krsna consciousness" just by walking around Manhattan, and issuing sounds from his lotus mouth. He spoke to us the entire vision of his idea for Daivi Varnasrama, and over time gave us the full outline, the full backbone for us to fit in place of our mundane one, and walk like humans serving God in their destined roles, instead of knuckle dragging apes serving ourselves.

 

He gave us a great service to himself, to CONTINUE what he started, and in his own words, establishing Daiva Varnashrama Dharma (DVD for short) all over the world will serve to continue the perfect Krsna Conscious Society that he graciously bestowed on such a group of unqualified and undeserving mlecchas. Such mercy is the Lord's to give through such a one as our Dear "Swamiji".

 

Hare Krsna

[mahak]

Srila Prabhupadas version:

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.1.11

TRANSLATION

 

 

There are many varieties of scriptures, and in all of them there are many prescribed duties, which can be learned only after many years of study in their various divisions. Therefore, O sage, please select the essence of all these scriptures and explain it for the good of all living beings, that by such instruction their hearts may be fully satisfied.

 

 

PURPORT

 

 

Atma, or self, is distinguished from matter and material elements. It is spiritual in constitution, and thus it is never satisfied by any amount of material planning. All scriptures and spiritual instructions are meant for the satisfaction of this self, or atma. There are many varieties of approaches which are recommended for different types of living beings in different times and at different places. Consequently, the numbers of revealed scriptures are innumerable. There are different methods and prescribed duties recommended in these various scriptures. Taking into consideration the fallen condition of the people in general in this age of Kali, the sages of Naimisharanya suggested that Sri Suta Gosvami relate the essence of all such scriptures because in this age it is not possible for the fallen souls to understand and undergo all the lessons of all these various scriptures in a varna and asrama system.

 

The varna and asrama society was considered to be the best institution for lifting the human being to the spiritual platform, but due to Kali-yuga it is not possible to execute the rules and regulations of these institutions. Nor is it possible for the people in general to completely sever relations with their families as the varnasrama institution prescribes. The whole atmosphere is surcharged with opposition. And considering this, one can see that spiritual emancipation for the common man in this age is very difficult. The reason the sages presented this matter to Sri Suta Gosvami is explained in the following verses.

[brajeshwara das]

The point of this thread is to discuss the Varnashram College as outlined by Srila Swami Maharaj. Arguing about whether or now has been done elsewhere, and it is a fact He wanted to implement something specific called the Varnashram College. Can someone describe per Srila Swami Maharaj what this actually was to be?

[Guest guest]

The above purport to SB 1.1.11 explains exactly why the Daiva version of varnasrama dharma is the only one that a person aspiring to become a more advanced Vaisnava (ie. gaining unalloyed Krsna prema) can possibly follow in this age of Kali.

 

Only the Most Merciful and Liberated Acharya could know what we could or could not use as rules and regs to make advancement. Anything else is speculation and dangerously misleading. His orders to the leaders of his society were precise in this regard, and for the very reason that he was the one who saw what we needed.

 

All instructions in this regard taken from the beginning of his instructions of how his institution was to proceed, back in the late 60's when he began overseeing a institutional societal structure for his eager and sincere but generally immature and unknowledgable disciples, to the more notorious varnasrama walks and talks in the later years, the serious student of this desire of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada must study the instructions in sequence, while having a broad and mature perspective of who an Acharya is and how he responds to the context of his mission over time.

 

Only then, could this conceptual knowledge be realized and gradually applied to current circumstances with temperance and vigor.

 

Hare Krsna

[brajeshwara das]

 

The above purport to SB 1.1.11 explains exactly why the Daiva version of varnasrama dharma is the only one that a person aspiring to become a more advanced Vaisnava (ie. gaining unalloyed Krsna prema) can possibly follow in this age of Kali.

 

Only the Most Merciful and Liberated Acharya could know what we could or could not use as rules and regs to make advancement. Anything else is speculation and dangerously misleading. His orders to the leaders of his society were precise in this regard, and for the very reason that he was the one who saw what we needed.

 

All instructions in this regard taken from the beginning of his instructions of how his institution was to proceed, back in the late 60's when he began overseeing a institutional societal structure for his eager and sincere but generally immature and unknowledgable disciples, to the more notorious varnasrama walks and talks in the later years, the serious student of this desire of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada must study the instructions in sequence, while having a broad and mature perspective of who an Acharya is and how he responds to the context of his mission over time.

 

Only then, could this conceptual knowledge be realized and gradually applied to current circumstances with temperance and vigor.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Yes, fine. But what of the Varnashrama College? Do you have any understanding on that?

[Guest guest]

 

The Quest for Enlightenment, chapter 7. by AC Bhaktivedanta Swami.

 

If you want to learn how to love God, or Krsna, then study Srimad-Bhagavatam. And for understanding Srimad-Bhagavatam, the preliminary study is Bhagavad-gita. Study Bhagavad-gita to understand the real nature or identity of God and yourself, and also to understand your relationship with God, and then when you are a little advanced, when you are fully convinced that Krsna is the only lovable object, then the next book you should study is Srimad-Bhagavatam.

 

Knowledge of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is is the entrance examination. Just as students pass their high-school examination and then enter college, so you must pass your “high-school examination” in how to love God by studying Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Then you should study Srimad-Bhagavatam—that is the graduate course. And when you’re still further advanced, on the postgraduate level, you should study Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. So there is no difficulty in learning the science of loving Krsna.

 

Here we see that if someone were attempting to set up a college outside the society that the disciples of ACBSP were already living in, would be impossible.

 

Everyone is to be considered Vaisnava as soon as they accept some discipline that the Acharya offers and that in his own words is a discipline which will bring students to the ultimate goal of pure love of godhead, through the reverse psychology of mandatory restriction of certain activities and then real renunciation based on adjusting those activities or choosing new ones favorable to advancement in Krsna Consciousness.

 

So due to real distress, financial poverty, inquisitiveness or wisdom a person sincerely accepts the terms of the entrance examination, and submissively reads the Bhagavad gita, this is the equivalent to hearing from the Acharya about the Supreme Lord, equivalent to engaging in the first limb of devotional service, and thus the most fallen is immediately a Vaisnava in good faith.

 

Thus Iskcon was always in its Totality supposed to encompass the entire Varnasrama College. And every center was to be a center of education in this regard. The entire philosophy and dynamic motion of the Sankirtana Movement was to be represented head to foot from each temple. There was no aspect which was not to be available. He actually had disciples appearing to work within all 4 varnas and ashrams from the very beginning, before there was anything but a temple or two, but only he saw the Varnas and ashrams as they were. In DVD, a vaisya may not necessarily ever see a farm, but if the Lord wills it, the vaisya type is the best man to staff a farm once it is obtained. And he is still a Vaisnava, playing vaisya as service to the Sankirtana movement.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

The varnasrama college has to be established immediately. Everywhere, wherever we have got our center, a varnasrama college should be established to train four divisions: one class, brahmana; one class, ksatriya; one class, vaisya; and one class, sudra. But everyone will be elevated to the spiritual platform by the spiritual activities which we have prescribed. There is no inconvenience, even for the sudras.

(Morning Walk, March 12, 1974, Vrindavan)

 

Just take this, if you are brahmana of your temple, and see that you stand in the middle of the future Varnasrama College. Begin to read all Srila Prabhupada wrote about how to identify people by DVD, starting with the Gita and working through the Bhagavatam, and then fill in the details by reading the conversations persuant to the theme of DVD spoken from 1974 onwards.

 

Oh, and remember, everyone around you is a beginner Vaisnava, they just need to know their DVD role in order to perfect their love by getting rid of what they are not.

 

So after you have been fully informed as to what is or what is not a role in this particular Acharya's Daiva varnasrama system, you will then know how to instruct others accordingly, and help bring them home to their eternal service.

 

Hare Krsna

[mahak]

Im sure there can be many discussions of the idealism of a VA college. This was a service Srila Prabhupada wanted his leaders to accomplish, so the discussions are all in such a format, discussions with his leading men. The idealism of VAD is discussed in the content of his published books and lectures, but the college he wanted his men to set up never really got off the ground.

 

For one thing, most of the folks he was discussing these ideas with were too ambitious for their own good, proved out to be not such good disciples, etc. The idea of these people DECIDING where a disciple should be placed (varnas are okay, I guess, because devotional service transcends even the Brahminical standard, but asramas to be decided by these people??? nO THANK YOU.)

 

Srila Prabhupadas vision was that all his disciples work cooperatively to make ISKCON a valuable jewel for the world to emulate. But even the so called 11 successors did not cooperate with each other, the rank and file devotees only agreed on one thing, that these eleven were bogus jerks, etc.

 

First things first, cooperation. Unless the vaisnava community can work cooperatively to spread the samkirtana movement, then we just have another branch of materialists, and thus the SB 1-1-11 citation rings true to us as well as those wicked karmis.

 

Ive seen it work. I was on an obscure farm not really affiliated with ISKCON, yet Srila Prabhupada was pleased with our activities. We had bulky sudras who were miracle workers in the fields and great cowherds. We had vaisyas who worked the funding, managed the cow protection. We had ksatriya (just one, me) who was responsible for investigations, dealing with the political aspect of being in a community and supplying security. We had a few brahmanas, including three travelling sanyassis who visited regularly. There were householders living outside who supported very well, the brahmacaris were the milkers, labor, teachers and security person. The farm worked well, the whole community loved us, the old portugese lady down the road invited us all for sweet bread (without eggs) and tea, the cops made concessions to ensure our success, including looking the other way when our big flatbed went down the road without registration, etc.

 

But alas, ISKCON sold this farm out from under us to pay for a big embassy building in the big city, where the rank and file embarassed all who were vaisnavas by their thievery they offensively called samkirtana. This sale included the cows, who were all slaughtered.

 

So, maybe a VAD college could work, Ive seen it work, but as long as there are napoleons and hitlers and bushes running the show, all their is is kali cela led quarrel, chaos and confusion.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

First things first, cooperation. Unless the vaisnava community can work cooperatively to spread the samkirtana movement, then we just have another branch of materialists, and thus the SB 1-1-11 citation rings true to us as well as those wicked karmis.

 

I personally am of the mind that spreading the samkirtana movement will be accomplished as Srila Prabhupada said it would.

 

Self governing individuals will automatically find themselves able to act in some varna and some ashrama when around one another.

 

Thus the chanting, which is not dependent on varnasrama, begins to purify us so that our Daiva varna and ashrama are revealed within the context of how we support our continued chanting, individually as bhajan and collectively as the congregational sankirtana parties.

 

A person becomes self governing when reading Srila Prabhupada's books and following the instructions therein, and begins to associate with other such followers according to their honestly assessed position according to guna and karma, a recognition of where others are at in the community according to these symptoms, and then cooperation, real cooperation will occur.

 

May it grow.

 

Hare Krsna

[astrobhadauria]

Paramadarniya Guruvar,

I am living in a village and there are lokokti-Kahawat is famous,related to this topic.-

"Sau mai Soor,Sahas mai Kana,

Ek lakh mai Enchak tana,

Enchak tana kare pukaar,

Kanja se rahio husiyaar,

Jaake hiye na ekau baar,

Tako kanjaa tabedaar,

Koti gradana kare pukaar,

Kaha kare chhatee ko baar."

 

Meanin:-

One blind man can operate hundred person,and one thousend person can operate one eye person,(Knana).When a person start the talk,and second pull the talk,and finished original talk,that can operate one lakh person,if one person have white eyes,that person can operate more then ten lakh person,and if any person not have hair on his breast,that can operate one city,and one person has,short neck,that will operate full country.

[Guest guest]

 

 

A person becomes self governing when reading Srila Prabhupada's books and following the instructions therein

 

Ah, but that's exactly the problem!

 

There are many gurus who forbid the reading of Srila Prabhupada's books, and insist that only the books of his disciple Abhay Charanaravinda dasa, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami, be read instead.

 

If the devotees cannot agree on who Srila Prabhupada is, there is little prospect that they will be able to cooperate under his magnanimous auspices.

[astrobhadauria]

Paramadarniya Guruvar,

There are more troubles in Kalyuga,like more and more frections in one way,son not want obey of father,shishya not want obey of sataguru,and always going to find metrial articals at the place of paranormal strength.Shrila Prabhupad swami is always in mind if anybody think only for short time,but one litter milk posible at a time and "charnamrit" one teaspoon not posible in the long time.

[Guest guest]

 

Ah, but that's exactly the problem!

 

There are many gurus who forbid the reading of Srila Prabhupada's books, and insist that only the books of his disciple Abhay Charanaravinda dasa, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami, be read instead.

 

If the devotees cannot agree on who Srila Prabhupada is, there is little prospect that they will be able to cooperate under his magnanimous auspices.

 

Why nitpick at what is obviously a semantic faux pas on my part?

 

Especially since anyone following the conversation would know exactly who i was speaking of. I don't know of a single child in my 8th grade class who would not have been able to make the connection. Well maybe a couple, but not as this mistaken identity you claim.

 

And the point you tried to make off that leverage is weak. Any guru who forbids all but Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's books will do no harm whatsover to that sisya because Swamiji himself said that no others were necessary for one to acheive love of God, and to most of his disciples he did forbid the reading of other works, and for many years. The few disciples with advanced intellectual skills who he asked to translate the works of previous acharya's not withstanding in this case.

 

"There is no need by any of my disciples to read any books besides my books--in fact, such reading may be detrimental to

their advancement in Krishna consciousness. All reading of outside books should be stopped immediately. It is simply another

botheration. If my students cannot even read my own books THOROUGHLY, why they should read others? You are right to stop

such reading." [72-01-20]

 

One should not be very enthusiastic about reading various types of books--Practically, if one very carefully reads

Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Teachings of Lord Caitanya and this Nectar of Devotion, that will give him sufficient

knowledge to understand the science of Krsna consciousness. ONE NEED NOT TAKE THE TROUBLE OF READING OTHER BOOKS."

[Nectar of Devotion Chapter 7]

[Beggar]

 

 

"There is no need by any of my disciples to read any books besides my books--in fact, such reading may be detrimental to

their advancement in Krishna consciousness. All reading of outside books should be stopped immediately. It is simply another

botheration. If my students cannot even read my own books THOROUGHLY, why they should read others? You are right to stop

such reading." [72-01-20]

 

"Regarding Jaiva Dharma, our Srila Prabhupada said in September 23, 1969, on the divine appearance day of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, "Bhaktivinoda Thakura happens to be one of the acaryas, and he has left behind him many books. Caitanya-siksamrta and Jaiva Dharma are very important books. They are in Bengali and Sanskrit. And he has prepared many books of songs. We are trying to present Bhaktivinoda Thakura's books in English, and gradually you will get them. So our adoration, our worship is to Bhaktivinoda Thakura today so that he may bless us to peacefully make progress in Krsna consciousness. Acarya-upasana. Simply by the blessings of the acaryas we can make very rapid progress."

Regarding Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's books in general, a conversation took place with Prabhupada on May 13, 1975: "Paramahamsa: Srila Prabhupada, I remember once I heard a tape where you told us that we should not try to read the books of the previous acaryas.

Amogha: That we should not try to read Bhaktivinoda's books or earlier books of other acaryas. So I was just wondering… Prabhupada: I never said that.

Amogha: You didn't say that? Oh.

Prabhupada: How is that?

Amogha: I thought you said that we should not read the previous acarya's books.

Prabhupada: No, you should read.

Amogha: We should.

Prabhupada: It is a misunderstanding..we are following the previous acaryas. I never said that."

 

 

One should not be very enthusiastic about reading various types of books--Practically, if one very carefully reads

Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Teachings of Lord Caitanya and this Nectar of Devotion, that will give him sufficient

knowledge to understand the science of Krsna consciousness. ONE NEED NOT TAKE THE TROUBLE OF READING OTHER BOOKS."

[Nectar of Devotion Chapter 7]

 

Srila Prabhupada's instruction were for his disciples at that particular time place and circumstance. How else will you harmonize the apparent contradictions?

 

 

"There is no need by any of my disciples to read any books besides my books--in fact, such reading may be detrimental to their advancement in Krishna consciousness.." [72-01-20]

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Here's the challenge, Guestbhakta - Quote one place in Prabhupada's books where he says that his "books are the law books for the next 10 thousand years". You won't find it if you have a super-computer and search for the next 10 thousand years because such a statement by Prabhupada does not exist. How many other beliefs do you have about Prabhupada that are not based on any reality?

 

We are still waiting for this quote from Srila Prabhupada's books? Beggar's correct because it doesn't exist.

[Guest guest]

 

"Regarding Jaiva Dharma, our Srila Prabhupada said in September 23, 1969, on the divine appearance day of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, "Bhaktivinoda Thakura happens to be one of the acaryas, and he has left behind him many books. Caitanya-siksamrta and Jaiva Dharma are very important books. They are in Bengali and Sanskrit. And he has prepared many books of songs. We are trying to present Bhaktivinoda Thakura's books in English, and gradually you will get them. So our adoration, our worship is to Bhaktivinoda Thakura today so that he may bless us to peacefully make progress in Krsna consciousness. Acarya-upasana. Simply by the blessings of the acaryas we can make very rapid progress."

Regarding Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's books in general, a conversation took place with Prabhupada on May 13, 1975: "Paramahamsa: Srila Prabhupada, I remember once I heard a tape where you told us that we should not try to read the books of the previous acaryas.

Amogha: That we should not try to read Bhaktivinoda's books or earlier books of other acaryas. So I was just wondering… Prabhupada: I never said that.

Amogha: You didn't say that? Oh.

Prabhupada: How is that?

Amogha: I thought you said that we should not read the previous acarya's books.

Prabhupada: No, you should read.

Amogha: We should.

Prabhupada: It is a misunderstanding..we are following the previous acaryas. I never said that."

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada's instruction were for his disciples at that particular time place and circumstance. How else will you harmonize the apparent contradictions?

 

Jaya Prabhupada

 

If you go back and read my own comments in the post you picked these scriptural purports from, you will see I was only using those purports to make the ironic point that if someone was forbidding someone to read any but ACBSP's Books, that it would not be the worst thing. For ACBSP himself told his disciples they could get everything just from his books.

 

This notwithstanding the possibility the Guru forbidding this may be doing so out of ignorance and never intends to lift the prohibition when appropriate, and in that case, associating with such a Guru will require a full reading of those exact books for the victim to gain the knowledge to see clear his way out of harm, and the method of escape. Win win situation either way.

 

The general injunction to read only his books, which was presented strongly and broadly from day 1 did not stop Srila Prabhupada from recommending the glorious works of previous acharyas on a few occasions to select groups on rare occasions.

 

Saying that Srila Bhaktivinode's books are important on his appearance day way back in 69 when his movement was small, and most were still learning the Gita and barely knew who Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur was, is a mere token encouragement in that direction at best compared to his general rule of "only his books".

 

And in that conversation you posted, ACBSP's emphasis was on the mistaken prohibition itself that someone mistakenly attributed to him. He was not going out of his way to encourage this activity broadly, and he did not elaborate, but this is beside the point.

 

He also asked a disciple to translate Jaiva Dharma into English, or so I am told, no record of that one, but I believe it. So what. A small potato when we measure the proportions involved.

 

This is how I harmonize this superficial contradiction.

 

Hare Krsna

[brajeshwara das]

Could 'my' books mean the books of Gaudiya Vaishnavas in the line of Srila Swami Maharaj Prabhupada? At the time weren't most of the other books available to his disciples from such elevated publishing groups as 'Penguin Classics' etc. Versions of Srimad Bhagavad Gita and other available books were translations by faithless westerners, Zen Alan Watts types, the burgeoning New Age authors etc? Earlier Mayavadis as well? How could the early disciples discern what to read and what not to read? It seems to me that to prevent a mix-match of different philosophies Srila Swami Maharaj told his disciples to be chaste to his teachings only. That seems to me to be of the highest intelligence, though from outside someone would mistakenly see him as too controlling. We can see from his commentaries about Jesus though that this wasn't the case, that he was very broad in seeing the Lord from wherever He may appear.

 

To the other extreme, even now we know there are certain Vaisnava texts that contain the truth that (at least my) Guru says we shouldn't read because we can't understand the intimate pastimes of the Lord. These are the highest realizations but since we can't absorb or avoid misunderstanding them they are off limits.

 

 

Prabhupada: It is a misunderstanding..we are following the previous acaryas. I never said that."

 

This seems to support my feelings.