Harmony with all Religion-Mahaprabhu's Conception

[bija]

 

Taken from 'Affectionate Guidance-Harmony is Mahaprabhu's Conception by Swami B.S. Govinda.'

 

Harmony. Harmony is Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's conception. When he went to south India to preach He visited every type of temple, such as those of Ganesha, Kali, Siva, Durga, etc. Why did he visit all these types of temples? He did so in order that he could reach the people to present to them the ultimate goal of life.

 

The conception of the Ramanuja Sampradaya is that they will never go to a Shiva temple. They have a saying that if a tiger will come to kill you, you may go to the mouth of the tiger but not to a Shiva temple even if you will get safety there! They have such a type of conception.

 

However, Mahaprabhu was not like that. He went to every temple He came across along His path of preaching. But everywhere Mahaprabhu went he only preached the Krsna conception. He gave Krsna consciousness to all, and everyone took to Mahaprabhu's religion. He went to Ganesha Temples, and the worshippers of Ganesha took to Mahaprabhu's religion. In that way He preached everywhere, and our conception also will be like that. Our intention will be like that.

 

We do not hate others. If we will hate, then we will go out. Therefore we must follow Mahaprabhu's conception of not hating any religion, but giving them Krsna consciousness. So we must always make harmony with others, otherwise this type of preaching is not possible.

[bija]

***Real Unity (transcendental loving devotion)***

 

 

When we are on the material platform, there are different types of religions — Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and so on. These are instituted for a particular time, a particular country or a particular person. Consequently there are differences. Christian principles are different from Hindu principles, and Hindu principles are different from Muslim and Buddhist principles. These may be considered on the material platform, but when we come to the platform of transcendental devotional service, there are no such considerations. The transcendental service of the Lord (sadhana-bhakti) is above these principles. The world is anxious for religious unity, and that common platform can be achieved in transcendental devotional service. This is the verdict of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. When one becomes a Vaisnava, he becomes transcendental to all these limited considerations.

(taken from the writings of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, CC Madhya 25:121)

Saying this, the transcendental devotees objective in discussing spirituality with others, is never with aims of converting them (for the soul cannot be converted). In the transcendental science the material designations are of a secondary nature. If there is any objective at all, it is only to inspire the listener to deepen their chosen faith. And hopefully oneday to rise above material designations to transcendental realization.

 

By transcending material designations one is not required to leave one’s chosen religion. But by rising above these material designations people of all faith may perceive their common unity and live together in love and harmony. With devotion ever present in their hearts.

 

Surely such transcendental realization (devotional service) is the panacea for a divided world. Where so much bigotry, hatred, and war has been enacted in the name of God. Where religious fanaticism has tainted religion and divided many.

 

According to Jesus Christ, the greatest goal for all humanity is to love God with all your heart; so I perceive that flowing from this, we are to love all souls (the parts and parcels of God) by giving them the Holy Names. This will be the greatest wealth. Devotional service culminating in love of God is the eternal religion of all mankind.

 

y.s. bija

[bija]

I originally posted this at the 'Should Christians be friends with Hindus/Hare Krsna's/etc?' thread.

 

I thought this flow of conversation might be very relevant to this thread. To explain a little clearer the 'Harmony of Mahaprabhu's Conception'.

 

Found here:

 

www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/440106-should-christians-friends-hindus-hare-krishnas-etc.html

 

 

ummm... coming back to this thread Should Christians be friends with Hindus/HareKrishnas/etc... I keep wondering.. should a human be friends with a fellow human being, irrespective of his faith and form of God he prefers to worship... is there more that can actually bring us together in this short life than the differences we so caringly meditate upon, to keep us apart as groups , sampradayas, peoples, nations, etc.?

hmmm... I think we can still find more reasons to be friends for the difference in our philosophical line of thinking. But even if strictly speaking from a religious point of view too, I think as a Hare Krishna or a Christian or a Hindu, still should understand that the other person is also child of one God and breathes the same air as me, and is sustained by the mercy of the same Lord, no matter how many different names he is called upon by us. Quote by yK

Yes I think so. In a deeper sense this very breathe that sustains us is the breathe of God (Spirit). The depth of diversity expressed in this material sphere is beyond discovery. From the insects to the animals, to plant life and way up to the diverse stars and planets. Not to mention the diversity in the human experience, with individual sentiments, feelings, moods and expressions. So if this material sphere is considered a reflection of the spiritual environment, how much more so must the unlimited variety be there. The sages have pondered on this very thing for sure. In some sense the Absolute diversity and unity is indescribable by words. But we know in our heart of hearts, that in that transcendental environment everything is working in complete 'harmony'. Simultaneous Oneness and Difference. A unity in diversity. Because of that intrinsic nature, we also desire that harmony in this material realm. But because of the nature of the material atmosphere some difficulty is found in achieving this.

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in his Sri Krsna Samhita (a commentary on the essence of Srimad Bhagavatam) states that realization of the Absolute cannot be attained by argumentation, but only by deep absorption/contemplation can this truth be revealed to the heart. If we peel back every layer, both external and internal, by good fortune we may come to the very sweet center. Which will be saturated in Divine Love.

 

It is my conviction that God is unlimited. That spiritual life and existence is a positive and progressive immortality. So surely this indescribable truth ( the words 'indescribable truth' are used in Sri Krsna Samhita) cannot not be boxed by our argumentative mundane conceptions. The very nature of that eternal existence, is that it is ever expanding, ever increasing and ever new (nava) Divine Love. So the highest conception must be where that love is at its highest intensity. So our small minds and argumentative propensity, try to limit what is actually unlimited. How can we say what is highest, when the nature of the Absolute is limitless, and cannot be boxed in? The very nature of Divine Love and it's intensity is limitless, eternal, ever expanding and ever-new (nava). This dynamic between soul and Soul is inconceivable and incomprehensible.

 

This is where we get ourselves into trouble. We try to describe this inconceivable truth by the process of argumentation. So therefore we enter disharmony because of limited relativities and conceptions. But saying this, if this Absolute is the very core of our existence it must be able to be realized to increasing degress, and that process is Samadhi (absorption) - self realization.

 

In my personal spirituality I find that I can accommodate different conceptions because of the nature of the unlimitedness of the Absolute. And the ever-new dynamic is, spiritual existence (increasing Divine Love) between soul and Soul. That infact this Vaikuntha realm accommodates all possibility of the unlimited. For it is unlimited. What is the depth of Divine Love? Can love between soul and Soul be confined? Surely not. It is without boundary. Gaudiya Vaisnava's take shelter of the Hladhini Shakti (Sri Radha). The depths of her love for Krsna is limitless, it has no bounds. It is ever-new and increasing. Because Krsna's beauty is unlimited.

 

The sage who penned Srimad Bhagavatam, through Samadhi has described for us, this sweet core. He has penned the Krsna conception. Which when understood in a deeper sense gives the possibility for unlimited increasing sweetness to exist. I stress here that the very nature of Divine Love between soul and Soul is unlimited. The Krsna conception gives scope to this. Our small minds cannot conceive of something without boundaries, but infact Divine Love is of this very nature.

 

So yK I have talked with you enough times online now to know I can open up a little about my personal spirituality. And that in this spirituality I have come to understand, through conviction, that the very nature of God is unlimited. So in this Vaikuntha realm all conception and scope is possible. It sits well with me, because even on a mundane platform, where difficulty in dialogue and harmony often manifests, still harmony and unity of diversity may be accommodated. With higher realization and understanding. Because all harmony exists in the spiritual realm (Vaikuntha), we also crave harmony in this material sphere we have found ourselves in. Harmony is deep within us…it is our intrinsic nature. At the core of our very being. And I believe is possible to be attained, through deeper realization and Samadhi.

 

So thank you for allowing me to share some of my personal spiritual life with you. I desire to understand the depth of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu (Gauranga). Therefore I have taken shelter of a Guru who is deeply attached to Lord Caitanya. I believe at the very core of Lord Caitanya is the existence of Srimad Bhagavatam. I feel drawn to this conception very much so. And with this conception I am grateful that I can accommodate all the variegated existence found within Vaikuntha. As I stressed earlier, I feel the very nature of God is unlimited.

 

Please allow me to share a little from the Sri Krsna Samhita (by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura). It is one of my favourite scriptures and speaks of the very heart of Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga. I feel that at some point we need to leave behind the platform of argumentation and enter deeper and deeper levels of Samadhi. There we will find the very core of our being, where true harmony exists. Where all things can be accommodated. This Sri Krsna Samhita is the heart of Sri Caitanya's profound exixtence. It can be found online here:

 

www.nitaiveda.com

 

<st1:place w:st="on">Om</st1:place> Shanti…bija (Nava Gauranga dasa).

All glories to Lords Nityananda-Gauranga!

 

 

 

Quote:

<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="border: 1pt solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding: 4.5pt 18pt; background: rgb(224, 224, 224) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"> Sri Krsna Samhita, (Essence of Srimad Bhagavatam) by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura Chapter Five, verse two.

"Being overwhelmed by the sound of Krishna's flute, the gopis of Vraja worshiped goddess Yogamaayaa with a desire to attain <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. The appearance of the truth of Vaikuntha in the pure consciousness of the living entities of this world is called Vraja. The word vraja means "to go." It is impossible to elevate oneself in this material world by rejecting maayaa, therefore one should take shelter of favorable material items and try to search for the indescribable truth. For this reason living entities who have attained the mood of gopis take shelter of the great goddess Yogamaayaa to help them attain the Lord's pastimes in the spiritual world."

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

 

Sri Krsna Samhita (Essence of Srimad Bhagavatam)

by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

Chapter Nine

Achievement of the

Lotus Feet of Lord <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>

 

 

 

TEXT 1

 

vyasena vraja-lilayam nitya-tattvam prakashitam

 

prapanca-janitam jnanam napnoti yat svarupakam

 

Shri Vyasadeva has explained the eternal truth while describing the pastimes of Vraja. This eternal truth is beyond the realm of material knowledge (see 2.41-43).

 

TEXT 2

 

jivasya siddha-sattayam bhasate tattvam uttamam

 

durata rahite shuddhe samadhau nirvikalpake

 

This supreme truth shines in the living entity's pure existence. This pure existence is attainable by conditioned souls through pure absolute samadhi, which vanquishes all impediments. There are two types of samadhi—artificial and absolute. The devotees accept natural samadhi as absolute and fabricated samadhi as artificial, regardless of whatever explanations the jnanis have. The soul is spiritual, therefore the qualities of self-knowledge and knowledge of other objects are naturally present in him. By the quality of self-knowledge, one can realize one's self. By the quality of knowing other objects, one can realize all other objects. Since such qualities are the constitutional nature of a living entity, where is the doubt that natural samadhi is absolute? A living entity does not require to take shelter of another instrument to understand the supreme object. Therefore this samadhi is faultless. But when one takes shelter of Sankhya-samadhi, which entails faulty or unnatural activities, it is known as artificial samadhi. The constitutional activities of the soul are called natural samadhi, for the mind has no jurisdiction in these activities. Natural samadhi is easy and free from misery. If one takes shelter of this samadhi, then the eternal truth is easily realized.

 

TEXT 3

 

maya-sutasya vishvasya cic-chayatvat samanata

 

cic-chaktyavishkrite karye samadhav api catmani

 

The pastimes of Vraja have been perceived and described through the process of natural samadhi, in the form of self-realization. Although the names, forms, qualities, and activities that are used to describe Vraja-lila appear almost mundane, that is only because the material world created by Maya is similar to its origin, Vaikuntha. Actually the soul's natural samadhi is a function of the spiritual potency. Whatever is perceived through natural samadhi is the ideal example for the material world, not imitation.

 

TEXT 4

 

tasmat tu vraja-bhavanam krishna-nama-gunatmanam

 

gunair jadyatmakaih shashvat sadrishyam upalakshyate

 

For this reason <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>'s names, qualities, and forms have a similarity to material names, qualities, and forms.

 

TEXT 5

 

svaprakasha svabhavo 'yam samadhih kathyate budhaih

 

ati-sukshma-svarupatvat samshayat sa vilupyate

 

Self-realization comes through self-illumination. Learned scholars call self-realization samadhi. This is very subtle. If there is a tinge of doubt, it is practically lost. Many truths such as the living entity's faith in his own existence, the living entity's eternal existence, and the living entity's relationship with the Absolute Truth are realized through natural samadhi. "Do I exist or not?Will I exist after death?Do I have any relationship with the Absolute Truth?" If one develops such argumentative doubts on the truth, then his natural samadhi becomes contaminated with prejudices and gradually forgotten. The truth can never be lost; it can only be forgotten. The soul's eternality and the existence of the Absolute Truth cannot be established by argument, because argument has no entrance into the realm beyond the material world. Self-realization is the only way to establish these truths. The devotees of Krishna always realize their eternal home, Vaikuntha, and their eternal occupation, service to <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, through natural samadhi, or self-realization. When a spirit soul practices natural samadhi, he progressively realizes the following subjects: (1) his self, (2) the insignificance of the self, (3) the supreme shelter, (4) the relationship between the shelter and the sheltered, (5) the beauty of the qualities, activities, and form of the shelter, (6) the relationships amongst the sheltered, (7) the abode of the shelter and the sheltered, (8) the absolute time factor, (9) the various moods of the sheltered, (10) the eternal pastimes between the shelter and the sheltered, (11) the energies of the shelter, (12) the advancement and degradation of the sheltered by the energies of the shelter, (13) the misidentification of the degraded sheltered, (14) the cultivation of devotional service for restoration of the degraded sheltered, and (15) the degraded sheltered regaining their constitutional position through devotional service. These fifteen along with other inconceivable truths are realized. The more material knowledge is mixed with one's natural samadhi, the less one can realize the truth. The more one is able to advance on the path of natural samadhi by controlling argument, which is like the minister of material knowledge, the more one can open the storehouse and acquire indescribable spiritual truths. The storehouse of Vaikuntha is always full. Lord Shri Krishnacandra, the lovable object of all, constantly invites the living entities through the open door of that storehouse.

 

TEXT 6

 

vayam tu samshayam tyaktva pashyamas tattvam uttamam

 

vrindavanantare ramye shri-krishna-rupa-saubhagam

 

We have destroyed the doubts that hinder samadhi, and we are seeing within the inner circle of Vaikuntha the beautiful form of Shri Krishna, who is the topmost personality of Vrindavana. If our samadhi would have been polluted with material knowledge and if the propensity for argument, after giving up mundane knowledge, would have intruded in the process of samadhi, then we would not have accepted the quality of variegatedness of the spiritual world and we would have proceeded only up to impersonal Brahman. But if material knowledge and argument was to some extent subdued and intruded only to some extent into the process of samadhi, then we would have accepted the eternal differentiation between the soul and the Supersoul, and nothing more. But since we have totally submerged this wicked propensity of doubting, we have attained complete realization of the beautiful form of the supreme shelter.

[theist]

Yes this is important thing to note. That faith is faith. Not that someone has to dress their faith as I do (with certain religious symbols and customs). Faith must be understood as a connecting principle to God and not a type of religious affiliation, ie "I am of the Christian faith" or "I am of the Hindu faith".

 

Where to direct that faith is another matter. Theists argue rightly that faith should be directed solely to the one Supreme Lord and His purified servants. Someone may know of the Lord as a different name and it should not be our concern to make them accept the name that we know Him as. That is sharable but not forceable.

 

What separates self realized devotees from all the world is not their feelings of being separate from the world and it's inhabitants but rather their realization of the oneness and unity of all of life, for everywhere they look they see only Krsna and His infinite energies manifested.

 

Let us not miss this by becoming just another form of separatist ourselves.

 

Obeisance to the Lord who lives in all without discrimination.

[krishnadasa]

What are you trying to prove here? some one is better than other???

 

I apologise , but thats not the right way,,, we dont have the tiniest eligibilty to compare any of the Vaishnawa sampradaya gurus with one another....We indeed commit offence.. beware...

 

Hari bol

[theist]

 

What are you trying to prove here? some one is better than other???

 

I apologise , but thats not the right way,,, we dont have the tiniest eligibilty to compare any of the Vaishnawa sampradaya gurus with one another....We indeed commit offence.. beware...

 

Hari bol

What are you talking about exactly krsnadasa?

[brajeshwara das]

 

What are you talking about exactly krsnadasa?

I was wondering that myself. I thought this was a pretty nice thread

[bija]

 

What are you trying to prove here? some one is better than other???

 

I apologise , but thats not the right way,,, we dont have the tiniest eligibilty to compare any of the Vaishnawa sampradaya gurus with one another....We indeed commit offence.. beware...

 

Hari bol quote by krishnadasa

 

No this is not my intention in this thread. My heart is far from that.

 

 

And that in this spirituality I have come to understand, through conviction, that the very nature of God is unlimited. So in this Vaikuntha realm all conception and scope is possible. It sits well with me, because even on a mundane platform, where difficulty in dialogue and harmony often manifests, still harmony and unity of diversity may be accommodated. With higher realization and understanding. Because all harmony exists in the spiritual realm (Vaikuntha), we also crave harmony in this material sphere we have found ourselves in. Harmony is deep within us…it is our intrinsic nature. At the core of our very being. quote by bija

 

But ofcourse I will consider your point (as you have perceived that I am trying to prove someone is higher than the other). And I will humbly attempt to offer all respects to other sampradayas and their gurus in the future, in my search for harmony (unity in diversity).

 

 

It is my conviction that God is unlimited. That spiritual life and existence is a positive and progressive immortality. So surely this indescribable truth ( the words 'indescribable truth' are used in Sri Krsna Samhita) cannot not be boxed by our argumentative mundane conceptions. The very nature of that eternal existence, is that it is ever expanding, ever increasing and ever new (nava) Divine Love. So the highest conception must be where that love is at its highest intensity. So our small minds and argumentative propensity, try to limit what is actually unlimited. How can we say what is highest, when the nature of the Absolute is limitless, and cannot be boxed in? The very nature of Divine Love and it's intensity is limitless, eternal, ever expanding and ever-new (nava). This dynamic between soul and Soul is inconceivable and incomprehensible. quote by bija

 

 

[Sridas]

Seeing with equal vision doesn't mean we negate the gradation of Divine Love. Otherwise we run the risk of equating Srimati Thakurani's dedication with that of an impersonalist. There are varying degrees of Theistic yagna, saranagati and bhakti. If one is an ananya bhakta, exclusive devotee, that doesn't mean their heart isn't all-inclusive.

The more surrendered to the reservoir of life, the more one has love for all life, but let us not loose our definition of Akhila rasamrta murti by equalizing all regious conceptions.

 

Respect or honor must be there or humility will morph into arrogance.

What Srila Govinda Maharaj is saying is that Sri Chaitanya Maha prabhu came with a new installment like no other before Him, and that is why he is referred to as the most munificent or merciful incarnation of Godhead because his karuna extends to all irregardless of their religious persuasion.

 

patrapatra-vicara nahi, nahi sthanasthana

yei yanha paya, tanha kare prema-dana

lutiya, khaiya, diya, bhandara ujade

ascarya bhandara, prema sata-guna bade

 

Here He is merely saying that Lord Caitanya distributed love of God without consideration who it was given to. His desire was to distribute it to the whole creation. Not that he was forcing it on those who didn't wish to take it, and for that He happily entered temples everywhere.

In India we will find in some sampredayas a vast difference between the Vishnu Vaisnavas and the Shivites but Lord Chaitanyas' movement is for all souls.

This is very nicely expressed in a very sweet new book by Srila Govinda Maharaj called 'The Religion of the Heart.'

 

It's a nice thread and nice thoughts Bija Prabhu keep it flowing.

[bija]

Thank you so much for your understandings Sridas. You have brought out some nice points here. In my personal spiritual life I wish to honor, respect, and worship the depth of divine conception (Sri Radha's love) that Mahaprabhu has given us.

 

If my article is read very closely, it may be perceived what I am wrestling with is how to fully dive into that love, and at the same time offer all respects to others (and their conceptions). In other words, not placing myself on a higher platform (which is something I do not desire). But of course the main consideration here must be to offer full respects to Sri Sri Radha Krsna.

 

I think within myself there will be a continual quest to find this balance and harmony. And I am sure this harmony is found within God. On a mundane level I am very sensitive to the conflict in the world today in regards to religion. So much war, hatred and vilolence. Sectarianism and division (even amongst our own groupings as devotees). So these external difficulties have radically influenced my religious thinking and desires. And has increased my desire to find harmony. In a way I feel defensive, and wish to protect the name of God and good religion, from the spoils of radical fundamentalism. Surely these are my shortcomings, but on a positive side it has increased my determination to find harmony in my faith (and live the ideal of universal brotherhood).

 

 

It is my conviction that God is unlimited. That spiritual life and existence is a positive and progressive immortality. So surely this indescribable truth ( the words 'indescribable truth' are used in Sri Krsna Samhita) cannot not be boxed by our argumentative mundane conceptions. The very nature of that eternal existence, is that it is ever expanding, ever increasing and ever new (nava) Divine Love. So the highest conception must be where that love is at its highest intensity. So our small minds and argumentative propensity, try to limit what is actually unlimited. How can we say what is highest, when the nature of the Absolute is limitless, and cannot be boxed in? The very nature of Divine Love and it's intensity is limitless, eternal, ever expanding and ever-new (nava). This dynamic between soul and Soul is inconceivable and incomprehensible.

 

This is where we get ourselves into trouble. We try to describe this inconceivable truth by the process of argumentation. So therefore we enter disharmony because of limited relativities and conceptions. But saying this, if this Absolute is the very core of our existence it must be able to be realized to increasing degress, and that process is Samadhi (absorption) - self realization.

 

In my personal spirituality I find that I can accommodate different conceptions because of the nature of the unlimitedness of the Absolute. And the ever-new dynamic is, spiritual existence (increasing Divine Love) between soul and Soul. That infact this Vaikuntha realm accommodates all possibility of the unlimited. For it is unlimited. What is the depth of Divine Love? Can love between soul and Soul be confined? Surely not. It is without boundary. Gaudiya Vaisnava's take shelter of the Hladhini Shakti (Sri Radha). The depths of her love for Krsna is limitless, it has no bounds. It is ever-new and increasing. Because Krsna's beauty is unlimited.

 

The sage who penned Srimad Bhagavatam, through Samadhi has described for us, this sweet core. He has penned the Krsna conception. Which when understood in a deeper sense gives the possibility for unlimited increasing sweetness to exist. I stress here that the very nature of Divine Love between soul and Soul is unlimited. The Krsna conception gives scope to this. Our small minds cannot conceive of something without boundaries, but infact Divine Love is of this very nature. quote by bija

 

 

So really Krishnadasa judgement of me as offensive to Sri Ramanuja is incorrect. Criticism of others (especially Sri Vaisnavas) is far from my heart. But I can understand why he perceived this. And I will consider his warning and further apply his advice into my religious thought.

 

y.s. bija (Nava).