One must find out a guru who is paramahamsa

[suchandra]

Although we still wait for proof when Prabhupada did authorize his leading disciples to become full-fledged initiating gurus who require "no specific qualification" to initiate their own disciples, we find lots of evidence how Prabhupada defined the qualification of a diksa-guru.

"Neither kuṭīcaka, nor bahūdaka, nor parivrājakācārya. Paramahamsa."

 

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.5.10-13

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Vṛndāvana, November 1, 1976

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/761101SB.VRN.htm?i=1976

 

"..The first thing is hamse gurau mayi bhaktyānuvṛtyā. This is religion. Ādau gurvāśrayam.

If you do not get a qualified guru, then everything is bogus. If you, by good fortune, if you get the association of a guru, qualified hamsa, paramahamsa.

Paramahamsa guru means sannyāsī’s last stage is paramahamsa. Kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājakācārya, and paramahamsa, these are the different stages. When one takes sannyāsa, he lives outside the village in a kuṭī, in a cottage, and the family members goes and delivers him the food, because he is not practiced. So in the beginning, he keeps up this association of neighborhood or family, but he is not practiced. He therefore lives outside the village, and if somebody gives some food, he eats. Then when he becomes experienced, then he does not accept food from one, either his own home or one home. He takes foodstuff from many homes: “Give me a little piece of cāpāṭi.” So somebody gives half, because they are also not overburdened. If they have to deliver, so many sannyāsīs come, and sumptuous food, then how the gṛhastha will provide? Therefore though… They do not overburden.

There may be other sannyāsīs, therefore little only. Madhupuri. The Gosvāmīs practiced this madhupuri in Vṛndāvana. They lived, but they would take little only from the house. This is called bahūdaka.

Then when he has practiced more, he travels all over the world, parivrājakācārya. And when he is fully experienced, then, in spiritual life and everything, then he is paramahamsa. So one must find out a guru who is paramahamsa. Neither kuṭīcaka, nor bahūdaka, nor parivrājakācārya. Paramahamsa.

So in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta also, Lord Caitanya says, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151] This bhakti-latā-bīja can be obtained through the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. Here Ṛṣabhadeva, who is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, therefore He says mayi, hamse gurau mayi. You cannot jump over Kṛṣṇa. “Well, I know Kṛṣṇa.

I shall go to Kṛṣṇa directly, without guru.”

There are many rascals, they say like that. No, that is not possible. First of all guru, then Kṛṣṇa. Hamse gurau mayi, bhaktyānuvṛtyā.

So these are description, this is the beginning. If we actually practice the description of the prescription given in the śāstra, then it will be possible that, as it is said, karmānubaddho dṛḍha āślatheta. Then our strong desire to enjoy this material world in different way, that will be slackened. That is wanted.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Devotees: Jaya! (end)

[Guest guest]

Look out for that banana peel...

 

The following is an excerpt from email written by Dhira Govinda dasa, from Oct. 8th, 2006.

 

 

 

We've heard the position that asserts the necessity for a 'physically present guru'. This stance seems to be susceptible to the banana peel argument. That is, the physically present current link slips on a banana peel and thereby ends his manifest pastimes. Oh no, now I don't have a physically present guru. Let me go to Radha-kunda, or Oklahoma, or wherever, to find one. There, I did it. I found another physically present guru who is now my direct link. But look out for that banana peel...

 

Then of course an advocate of that position may assert that the physically present spiritual master can still impart knowledge after his manifest pastimes are completed, so there is no need to search again for another. But then it seems that this sort of transmission of knowledge, not dependent on physical presence, is possible for just about anyone, except Srila Prabhupada.

 

In presenting the above it is important to realize that as aspiring devotees we of course want to hear from physically present spiritual teachers to enrich and guide our spiritual lives. The banana peel presentation above refers to the 'guru in the singular', the direct and prominent link to the parampara.

[Guest guest]

Yes, that is correct. And fortunately for us, there are quite a few paramahamsa Vaisnavas in this world.

 

 

Although we still wait for proof when Prabhupada did authorize his leading disciples to become full-fledged initiating gurus who require "no specific qualification" to initiate their own disciples, we find lots of evidence how Prabhupada defined the qualification of a diksa-guru.

"Neither kuṭīcaka, nor bahūdaka, nor parivrājakācārya. Paramahamsa."

 

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.5.10-13

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Vṛndāvana, November 1, 1976

[

 

"..The first thing is hamse gurau mayi bhaktyānuvṛtyā. This is religion. Ādau gurvāśrayam.

If you do not get a qualified guru, then everything is bogus. If you, by good fortune, if you get the association of a guru, qualified hamsa, paramahamsa.

Paramahamsa guru means sannyāsī’s last stage is paramahamsa. Kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājakācārya, and paramahamsa, these are the different stages. When one takes sannyāsa, he lives outside the village in a kuṭī, in a cottage, and the family members goes and delivers him the food, because he is not practiced. So in the beginning, he keeps up this association of neighborhood or family, but he is not practiced. He therefore lives outside the village, and if somebody gives some food, he eats. Then when he becomes experienced, then he does not accept food from one, either his own home or one home. He takes foodstuff from many homes: “Give me a little piece of cāpāṭi.” So somebody gives half, because they are also not overburdened. If they have to deliver, so many sannyāsīs come, and sumptuous food, then how the gṛhastha will provide? Therefore though… They do not overburden.

There may be other sannyāsīs, therefore little only. Madhupuri. The Gosvāmīs practiced this madhupuri in Vṛndāvana. They lived, but they would take little only from the house. This is called bahūdaka.

Then when he has practiced more, he travels all over the world, parivrājakācārya. And when he is fully experienced, then, in spiritual life and everything, then he is paramahamsa. So one must find out a guru who is paramahamsa. Neither kuṭīcaka, nor bahūdaka, nor parivrājakācārya. Paramahamsa.

So in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta also, Lord Caitanya says, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151] This bhakti-latā-bīja can be obtained through the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. Here Ṛṣabhadeva, who is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, therefore He says mayi, hamse gurau mayi. You cannot jump over Kṛṣṇa. “Well, I know Kṛṣṇa.

I shall go to Kṛṣṇa directly, without guru.”

There are many rascals, they say like that. No, that is not possible. First of all guru, then Kṛṣṇa. Hamse gurau mayi, bhaktyānuvṛtyā.

So these are description, this is the beginning. If we actually practice the description of the prescription given in the śāstra, then it will be possible that, as it is said, karmānubaddho dṛḍha āślatheta. Then our strong desire to enjoy this material world in different way, that will be slackened. That is wanted.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Devotees: Jaya! (end)

[suchandra]

 

Yes, that is correct. And fortunately for us, there are quite a few paramahamsa Vaisnavas in this world.

 

Nice to see Vaisnavas who practice positive thinking, however, paramahamsa Vaishnavas in this world? He would at least make a few people like Prabhupada did Georg Harrison, to spread the Holy name in big style. Or preach in such a way that people are lining up to get initiated right after class like it was the case when Prabhupada lectured. Since all this is not happening at least we can post our wishful thinking and hope people consider this as real knowledge: "there are quite a few paramahamsa Vaisnavas in this world."

[Guest guest]

Yes prabhu, we have to think positive but it's not just thinking, rather it's reality. It's quite simple really. The Lord was and is in control. He was able to make many people chant His names and He will continue to do so for however long this Krishna Consciousness movement lasts. <B><I>The Lord's potency does not decrease over time</B></I>. Therefore we will continue to see paramahamsa devotees come and go, delivering the fallen souls from this temporary world. I see absolutely no reason for one to lose hope unless he/she is just looking to find faults in Vaisnavas.

 

 

Nice to see Vaisnavas who practice positive thinking, however, paramahamsa Vaishnavas in this world? He would at least make a few people like Prabhupada did Georg Harrison, to spread the Holy name in big style. Or preach in such a way that people are lining up to get initiated right after class like it was the case when Prabhupada lectured. Since all this is not happening at least we can post our wishful thinking and hope people consider this as real knowledge: "there are quite a few paramahamsa Vaisnavas in this world."