Who says that Srila Prabhupada ONLY gave us the ABC's???

krsna · April 9, 2007

WHO SAYS SRILA PRABHUPADA ONLY GAVE US THE ABC’S?

By Kesava Krsna dasa

Many of us some time or other may have known or encountered devotees who left Iskcon for so called ‘greener pastures.’ When asked about their reasons for doing so, one common response is, aside from usual grievances, is that Srila Prabhupada only gave us the basics, the ABC’s of spiritual life. Such recurring sentiments are carried over after having read or heard of ‘higher’ things written or spoken by ‘higher’vaisnavas. Are there things Srila Prabhupada has not taught us which others are?

If we play along with these suppositions as a devil’s advocate and presume they are true, then Srila Prabhupada becomes a John the Baptist type of figure who paved the way for – who?

Or he had limited realizations and expressed them the best way possible for the western mentality – ABC style.

Or, as in the Biblical sense, we the readers of his books and followers of his instructions are not ready to receive of higher things.

Or yet again, he simplified the philosophy so much it has become basic rudimentary fare. The advocates of the ABC theory imply they are superior to those who lovingly follow him.

To counter these false assertions a conviction born of sraddha is required. Not just to know that Srila Prabhupada says everything is in his books, but how and why. Of course, if he says so, this is self-evident, because the words of a pure devotee are backed with Krsna’s approval.

But our faith – ye yatha mam prapadyanta – is reciprocal to our conviction. It rewards us lesser or higher truths accordingly. So if we think Srila Prabhupada gave us partial knowledge, we will only become partially realized.

If with our limited realizations we feel fit to carry our baggage over to some ‘higher’ milk and honey source to receive mind blowing dazzling doses of ‘rasika’ hand-outs, will we be able to swallow them? Highly unlikely!

If we feel we are not deriving higher understanding through Srila Prabhupada’s teachings then our faith can never withstand anything more. Besides, what will we gain if we go elsewhere?

If Srila Prabhupada implored us to stay within his mission, it meant it was important for him. The power of mercy and every other spiritual benediction are inbuilt in his desire. Is there not the risk of cutting ourselves off if we leave?

We hardly hear of devotees defecting from other spiritual mathas because it is sacrilege to do so, an abomination to their respective guru/founders. It is an embarrassment for Srila Prabhupada if we leave for something supposedly ‘greener’ or ‘higher.’

An example of how important a mission is to the founder can be found in Srila Gopal Guru Goswami who lived during lord Chaitanya’s time. Before he left the world he entrusted organizational responsibility of his mission to his disciple Dhyanacandra, and then passed away. Some legal problems arose in which the government sealed off their temple due to non-transference of property deeds. The tears of Dhyanacandra brought his guru back to life, who then completed the deeds. It showed how important it was for Srila Gopal Guru to keep his mission intact. Iskcon is no less important for Srila Prabhupada.

One need not look very far to see how he gave us everything we need to succeed in devotional service. The foremost activity of chanting Hare Krsna requires a simple mention from Sri Yamaraja himself, who says in SB 6.3.22: “Devotional service beginning with the chanting of the holy name of the Lord, is the ultimate religious principle for the living entity in human society.” Is this ultimate activity a mere ABC token gesture?

BG 16.1-3 purport says: “The best sacrifice recommended in this age is called sankirtana-yajna, the chanting of Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. This is the best and most inexpensive sacrifice; everyone can adopt it and derive benefit.” Is this the best ABC we ever had? Does not the chanting take us through the entire alphabet? Where is the shortfall?

When we sing the lofty samsara prayers in the morning, are these just ABC nursery rhymes to keep us awake? Then we sing very exalted prayers for Srimate Tulasi Devi in which we beg to – seva- adhikara diye koro nija dasi – “please give me the privilege of devotional service and make me your own maidservant.” Is this request to become a maidservant simply an ABC fantasy wish to become a fairy in wonderland?

When we read from the Srimad Bhagavatam which is sufficient in itself for God realization, situates one in transcendental goodness, is the mature fruit of the Vedic literatures, the literary incarnation of God, the essence of all Vedanta philosophy, dispels the darkness of Kali-yuga, is the spotless Purana, awakens love for Krsna etc, etc, etc. Is the Srimad Bhagavatam an ABC encyclopedia filled with never land tales to keep us guessing for something higher? Isn’t the Srimad Bhagavatam identical with Krsna?

The Chaitanya Caritamrta which describes Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s esoteric activities and teachings, to Whom we can apply logic and argument to His mercy, from Whom the six Goswamis were enriched in understanding of, and to Whom remembrance of makes difficult things become easy, Who taught inconceivable oneness and difference philosophy, Who is – Radha Krsna nahe anya, Who bestows conjugal love for Krsna etc, etc, etc. Is this work just an ABC elementary biography of a saint who taught that crying in separation from Krsna is the first step to – what? Would Srila Prabhupada spend valuable time writing his spiritual master’s favorite book as an ABC primer?

We have to conclude that Srila Prabhupada gave us the best, the ultimate, the summum bonum, the acme, the pinnacle, the topmost, the highest, the purest, the cream, the essence, in fact – everything. Still, one may ask: “What about the numerous sacred books written by the previous acaryas?”

Srila Prabhupada recommended many other books to be read and translated – when we qualify ourselves.

In reading books written by Srila Prabhupada’s contemporaries, one will doubtlessly find inspiring words and realizations, differences of expression, prose and the use of Sanskrit terminology and so on. One thing is strikingly clear though – there is nothing extra to what Srila Prabhupada has written for us. What may appear ‘higher’ will be the difference of presentation, and in some cases, the indiscriminate communication of ‘rasika’ subjects to unqualified recipients who think they have now become maidservants of Vraja.

Because Srila Prabhupada wrote in English, he translated common Sanskrit terms that way too, which to an unfamiliar reader will seem staid, if not tedious. Whereas someone may say we have to progress through the stages of sadhu sanga, bhajana-kriya, anartha-nivrtti, nistha, ruci, asakti, bhava and prema; Srila Prabhupada did the same over and over with words like association, misgivings, steady, taste, attraction, ecstasy, love. He was not shy to refer to - raganuga-bhakti – frequently either, by using words like spontaneous. In fact one needs to know these Sanskrit terms to better understand his English.

To recognize Srila Prabhupada’s love and kindness for us can be seen in his reiteration of certain points to remind us, help us understand, and to prevent us from committing blunders and aparadhas. This combined with his brilliance in presenting the realizations of various rasika acaryas into English, his third or fourth language, is an assurance we are receiving higher knowledge. If we are convinced that he gave us everything, we can scale the devotional heights without limitation.

Next time we encounter someone who wishes to impress us with an ABC rendition, we should politely retort: “Srila Prabhupada gave me the ABC’s, the LMN’s and the XYZ’s thank you very much.” :smash:

Ys, Kesava Krsna dasa – GRS.

Puru Das, das anudas · April 9, 2007

TEXT 71

TEXT

rati-prema-taratamye bhakta----tara-tama

ekadasa skandhe tara kariyache laksana

SYNONYMS

rati--of attachment; prema--and love; taratamye--by comparison; bhakta--devotee; tara-tama--superior and superlative; ekadasa skandhe--in the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam; tara--of him; kariyache--has made; laksana--symptoms.

TRANSLATION

"A devotee is considered superlative and superior according to his attachment and love. In the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, the following symptoms have been ascertained.

PURPORT

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has stated that if one has developed faith in Krsna consciousness, he is to be considered an eligible candidate for further advancement in Krsna consciousness. Those who have faith are divided into three categories-uttama, madhyama and kanistha (first-class, second-class and neophyte). A first-class devotee has firm conviction in the revealed scriptures and is expert in arguing according to the sastras. He is firmly convinced of the science of Krsna consciousness. The madhyama-adhikari, or second-class devotee, has firm conviction in Krsna consciousness, but he cannot support his conviction by citing sastric references. The neophyte devotee does not yet have firm faith. In this way the devotees are typed.

The standard of devotion is also categorized in the same way. A neophyte believes that only love of Krsna or Krsna consciousness is very good, but he may not know the basis of pure Krsna consciousness or how one can become a perfect devotee. Sometimes in the heart of a neophyte there is attraction for karma, jnana or yoga. When he is free and transcendental to mixed devotional activity, he becomes a second-class devotee. When he becomes expert in logic and can refer to the sastras, he becomes a first-class devotee. The devotees are also described as positive, comparative and superlative, in terms of their love and attachment for Krsna.

It should be understood that a madhyama-adhikari, a second-class devotee, is fully convinced of Krsna consciousness but cannot support his convictions with sastric reference. A neophyte may fall down by associating with nondevotees because he is not firmly convinced and strongly situated. The second-class devotee, even though he cannot support his position with sastric reference, can gradually become a first-class devotee by studying the sastras and associating with a first-class devotee. However, if the second-class devotee does not advance himself by associating with a first-class devotee, he makes no progress. There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with nondevotees to preach. Conviction and faith gradually increase to make one an uttama-adhikari, a first-class devotee.

Cc. Madhya lila 22.71

Institutional loyalty is not bhakti. Especially when that institution,after the departure of its founder-acarya, deviates from the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura,and distorts the Gaudiya siddhanta with regards to guru tattva, jiva tattva, and institutionalizes Vaisnava aparadha.

Srila Prabhupada "left" the mission of his Guru Maharaja, to establish ISKCON. When the acarya leaves many things happen. To accept a siksa guru after his departure, or to re affiliate or to become of "no faction." is perfectly in line with Srila Prabhupada's own example. Quoting from His Divine Grace's vanih to discourage anyone from seeking association of pure devotees of comparable realization is rtvk disguised. Kindly read these observations by one of His Divine Grace's godbrothers:

Seclected Nectarean Advise

Of Sri Srimad Bhakti Srirupa Siddhanti Gosvmi Maharaja

1) Obtaining the shelter of the lotus feet of a genuine guru is, without a doubt, a matter of both great fortune and great dilemma for the baddha-jiva. If, however, a fortunate soul has a sincere longing and ardency to attain a true guru, he does so by the mercy of Sri Krishna.

(2) The baddha-jiva is extremely insignificant; it is impossible for him to realise the magnitude of Sri Guru.

(3) One who, birth after birth has accumulated bhaktiunmukhi-sukriti, or spiritual merits leading to bhakti, will, in one birth, come face to face with the devotee of Sri Krishna, Sri Guru, by Sri Krishna’s mercy. By the mercy of that krishna-bhakta (Sri Gurudeva) one hears krishna-katha from his mouth and gradually experiences the appearance of devotion in one’s heart. By the light of the sun, one sees the sun. Similarly, in the light of the sadhu’s mercy one can comprehend the sadhu’s svarupa (eternal nature), and an acute hankering awakens to engage in hari-bhajana in the shelter of his lotus feet.

(4) The sadhu mercifully gives mantra initiation (diksha) and instructions (siksha) in the path of hari-bhajana to that sincere and surrendered person.

(5) As a result of accepting the shelter of a sadhu’s lotus feet, a person performs hari-bhajana, and as he gradually becomes free from anarthas, he becomes cognizant of the nature of the transcendental reality.

(6) Only a sadhu who knows the imports of all sastras, who is devoted to Bhagavan and who is intent on bhajana, is a genuine guru. Those who speak in order to appease the fancies of the baddha-jiva’s mind and thus try to attract it are not worthy of the title guru; rather they are the jiva’s enemies. Never associate with them no matter how fond of their

charming words you may be.

(7) Know that the entirety of instructions given by the karmis, jnanis, yogis and pseudo bhaktas to the jiva so he can obtain his own pleasure contain no message of eternal, supreme auspiciousness. The association of such persons is always to be rejected, no matter how enjoyable it is.

(8) One cannot understand that the association of nondevotees brings utter inauspiciousness until, as a matter of fortune one achieves the pure devotee’s mercy, which results from Sri Krishna’s grace.

(9) The words of pure devotees are contrary to our sense gratification. No matter how pitiless and harsh their words may seem if we can sincerely submit to them with our body, mind and words, our eternal welfare is assured.

(10) Maha-bhagavata Vaishnavas are the eternal, dear associates of Gaura-Krishna. If a jiva has not accumulated an unlimited amount of bhaktiunmukhi-sukriti, the darsana and shelter of such Vaishnavas does not come within the scope of his fortune.

(11) Merely maintaining the arrogance that one has received the mercy of suddha-bhaktas does not actually award that mercy or the position of being their disciple.

(12) A genuine disciple is just as rare as a genuine guru.

(13) Sri Bhagavan, as antaryami, resides in the hearts of all. Since pure devotees are the antaryami of even Bhagavan, they can serve Him according to His internal desires and thus please Him. Thus they are known as bhagavat-preshtha. Even after becoming the genuine disciple of such a person, one must understand the inner desire of Sri Gurudeva and serve him accordingly.

(14) One cannot charm Sri Gurudeva with a display of external emotions, gestures and formalities. If one becomes a disciple without sincerely surrendering oneself at Sri Gurudeva’s lotus feet, it is like trying to cheat a blacksmith regarding iron, and one is

bound to be cheated of his own welfare.

.

(15) Only at the time of Sri Gurudeva’s disappearance can one recognise the actual identity of his disciples. One can then understand who has approached Sri Guru with what intention.

(16) Even after taking shelter of a sad-guru’s lotus feet, some disciples secretly strive to occupy the seat of Sri Gurudeva at the time of his disappearance. Their acceptance of the shelter of Sri Guru’s feet was merely deceit. They are, in fact, hostile and inimical to guru.

(17) Moreover, some disciples try to misappropriate the opulence and paraphernalia intended for the service of Sri Guru-Gauranga. This is not understood while Sri Gurudeva is still present, but after he has disappeared from this world, it assumes a terrible form. Know these disciples to be hypocrites, enjoyers and offenders.

(18) Even at the time of Sri Gurudeva’s manifest presence, some try to control their godbrothers instead of regarding them as worshipable. Thus they become severe offenders of the Vaishnavas.

(19) Those who have been appointed to the position of temple-manager, but who do not serve in mutual cooperation with others and are reluctant to give due respect to their godbrothers, are sense enjoyers, that is, enjoyers of the matha. Instead of serving Bhagavan they are greedy to enjoy His property. They are a disgrace to the title “disciple”.

(20) Many, who are disciples in name only, even try to destroy the institution when Sri Gurudeva disappears because the honour they receive decreases at that time. These people are most inimical to guru and most certainly condemned to hell.

(21) Those disciples who deviate and engage in numerous acts of malice against Sri Guru when he disappears were undoubtedly hidden deceivers at the time of his manifest presence.

(22) Those in the stage of sadhana, who are not careful about obeying Sri Guru and avoiding offences to Vaishnavas, fall down even though they may have reached an elevated level.

(23) Those who take shelter at the lotus feet of a sadguru with a desire to do hari-bhajana should simple-heartedly follow Sri Gurudeva’s instructions with their body, mind and words. If they fail to drive extraneous desires from their hearts, the prohibited endeavours for karma and jnana will present numerous deterrents to remaining on the path of suddha-bhakti.

(24) If the disciple’s heart is not clean, Sri Guru’s heart does not reflect in it. Only out of immense fortune does the moon of bhakti that exists in the heart of Sri Gurudeva, maha-bhagavat, manifest within the heart of the disci

(25) A simple-hearted disciple, who desires his true benefit, practically never meets a bad end.

(26) A disciple surrendered at the lotus feet of a sad-guru should always keep in mind the teachings from “Sri Rupa-siksha” in Sri Caitanya-caritamrita. In this way he should serve Sri Guru without duplicity, and with utmost caution he should cultivate the limbs of sravana and kirtana of sri hari-katha.

(27) If the sadhaka’s life lacks simplicity and caution, he will achieve the opposite of his cherished ideal.

(28) Among all the jivas who are wandering throughout the universe, one who has accrued spiritual merit over many lifetimes obtains the seed of the creeper of bhakti, or sraddha. This takes place when the jiva, by <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s mercy, is favoured by His dear associates. Endowed with that sraddha, the disciple as a gardener, plants that seed in his heart. He waters it by hearing and chanting the instructions flowing from the mouth of Sri Gurudeva. Thus by these activities, the creeper sprouts and gradually climbs to the lotus feet of Sri Krishna.

(29) That creeper of bhakti passes beyond this universe, and beyond the <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Viraja</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType>River</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, Brahma-loka and Paravyoma, the spiritual sky, and goes to Goloka Vrindavana where it climbs the kalpa-vriksha (wishfulfilling tree) of Sri Krishna’s lotus feet. The gardener, still in this world, continues to irrigate the creeper with the water of sravana and kirtana and thus welcomes the fortune of tasting the fruit of prema.

(30) If, in the stage of sadhana, innumerable weeds, such as the desire for enjoyment, liberation, material gain, worship and fame grow, as well as the tendency to engage in prohibited behaviour – cheating, violence, and so forth – then the main plant cannot grow. At the time of watering it, the sadhaka will first cautiously cut the weeds so that

they don’t grow.

(31) One fault can arise that is most detrimental to the bhakti-sadhaka. It is known as vaishnava-aparadha and it can either uproot or cut the creeper of devotion like a mad elephant uproots a plant. As a result, the creeper of devotion immediately dries up. Therefore, the sadhaka is to remain diligent to ensure this does not happen. If gurva-avajna (disobeying guru) and vaishnava-aparadha occur, all one’s sadhana-bhajana is destroyed.

(32) I have instructed those who have taken shelter of me to always remain cautious in this regard. I have tried to the best of my ability to repeat the instructions of Sri Sri Mahaprabhu, His associates and our Sri Guru-varga. Nevertheless, those who remain inattentive and consequently not cautious about committing offences to great personalities or about uprooting the weeds cannot be helped. After I leave this body, none of you [my followers] should commit offences and thus act to cause even slight damage to the institution. If all of you cannot cooperate to perform hari-bhajana together according to my instructions, it is better that you either enter household life or move to a place of pilgrimage and perform hari-bhajana.

Translated from the Upadesamrita of

Sri Srimad Bhakti Srirupa Siddhanti Gosvami Maharaja

published by Sri Saraswata Gaudiya Asana and <st1:City><st1:place>Mission</st1:place></st1:City>

re-published by Gaudiya Vedanta Publications

Rays of the Harmonist

No. 16 Kartike 2006

Rays of the Harmonist Online

http://www.purebhakti.com/

You can download Issue 16 of Rays of the Harmonist, Kartike 2006 issue

which has this article printed on p. 32 here:

http://bvml.org/books/journals/roth/16(kartik2006).pdf

Puru Das, das anudas · April 9, 2007

"Association with Pure Devotees

Although many different processes for developing love of Godhead have been explained so far, Srila Rupa Gosvami now gives us a general description of how one can best achieve such a high position. The beginning of ecstatic love of Godhead is basically faith. There are many societies and associations of pure devotees, and if someone with just a little faith begins to associate with such societies, his advancement to pure devotional service is rapid. The influence of a pure devotee is such that if someone comes to associate with him with a little faith, one gets the chance of hearing about the Lord from authoritative scriptures like Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. Thus, by the mercy of the Lord, who is situated in everyone’s heart, one gradually develops his faith in the descriptions of such authoritative scriptures. This is the first stage of association with pure devotees. In the second stage, after one becomes a little advanced and mature, he automatically offers to follow the principles of devotional service under the guidance of the pure devotee and accepts him as the spiritual master. In the next stage, under the guidance of the spiritual master, the devotee executes regulative devotional service, and as a result of such activities, he becomes freed from all unwanted occupations. When he is freed from unwanted occupations, his faith becomes steadily fixed, and he develops a transcendental taste for devotional service, then attachment, then ecstasies, and in the last stage there is pure love of Godhead. These are the different stages of the development of pure love. . . "

Nectar of Devotion

Chapter Nineteen, Devotional Service in Pure Love of God

http://bvml.org/books/TNoD.html

theist · April 9, 2007

The intention of Srila Prabhupada's Iskcon's can be lost in another way than by his disciples prematurely and artifically trying to enter "higher rasa". And that is to become all things to all men in a desire to have as many members as possible "join" by watering down the philosophy in a way that will entice them to become members.

By this I am referring to attempts to include such things as homosex marriage within his Iskcon, striking his sometimes 'politically incorrect' statements from his own books etc.

Better a handful of truly precious gems then a sea of broken glass.

"Better to boil the milk now very vigorously and make it thick and sweet, that is the best process."

I would love to see first Iskcon return to Srila Prabhupada's vision for it and then within those perimeters make it very concentrated. This means dropping the centralized eccelestical guru system etc. and decentralizing all the local centers from the stringent grip of the GBC.

Yes Iskcon members are being seduced into so-called higher teaching's on rasa but that is partly because they have been made suseptable to such by the less than inspiring edicts from the GBC and the faith wounding interference in presenting Srila Prabhupada's books by the BBT in changing his books.

If we keep our homes clean and the children very well cared for they will be far less likely to want to run away.

--------------------

ILetter to: Hamsaduta

—

Los Angeles

22 June, 1972

72-06-22

Hamburg

My Dear Hamsaduta,

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated June 20, 1972, and I did receive two letters from Wolfram Ossenbrink and Han Koster dated 29th May, 1972, but there was no letter of recommendation from you. So any way, I am very much pleased to accept the boys as my duly initiated disciples, and their letter is enclosed herewith. Also please find enclosed herewith three sacred threads and four copies of Gayatri mantra duly chanted by me. Now hold a fire yajna, and teach the other big officers in Germany temples how to perform this fire yajna very perfectly, and give Gayatri mantra to Astaratha, Surabi dasi, Sacinandana, and Cakravarti. I think you have got a copy of the tape of me reciting Gayatri mantra, so play it to them through the right earhole with earphones.

I am very pleased to see the things are going on, and that new centers are opening many in Germany. Now I am feeling very much inclined for retiring behind the scenes to translate my Srimad-Bhagavatam. This means that now you all leaders, especially the GBC members, must become very much responsible and do the work that I am doing to the same standard. So I want you leaders especially to become very much absorbed in the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, and become yourselves completely convinced and free from all doubt. On this platform you shall be able to carry on the work satisfactorily, but if there is lack of knowledge, or if there is forgetfulness, everything will be spoiled in time. So especially you must encourage the students to read our books throughout the day as much as possible, and give them all good advice how to understand the books, and inspire them to study the things from every point of view. In this way, by constantly engaging our tongues in the service of the Lord, either by discussing His philosophy or by chanting Hare Krishna, the truth is that Krishna Himself will reveal Himself to us and we shall understand how to do everything properly. Now we have got so many students and so many temples but I am fearful that if we expand too much in this way that we shall become weakened and gradually the whole thing will become lost. Just like milk. We may thin it more and more with water for cheating the customer, but in the end it will cease to be any longer milk. Better to boil the milk now very vigorously and make it thick and sweet, that is the best process. So let us concentrate on training our devotees very thoroughly in the knowledge of Krishna Consciousness from our books, from tapes, by discussing always, and in so many ways instruct them in the right propositions.

I hope this meets you and your good wife Himavati in good health, and I shall be arriving in London sometime on the 5th July, so you may all come to London at your convenience and see me there.

Your ever well-wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS/sda

I hope this meets you and your good wife Himavati in good health, and I shall be arriving in London sometime on the 5th July, so you may all come to London at your convenience and see me there.

Your ever well-wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS/sda

Puru Das, das anudas · April 9, 2007

If Srila Prabhupada implored us to stay within his mission, it meant it was important for him. The power of mercy and every other spiritual benediction are inbuilt in his desire. Is there not the risk of cutting ourselves off if we leave?

Methinks there is much more risk of cutting yourself off from His Divine Grace and the rest of our guru parampara if you stay in ISKCON and ignore what has actually happened to it since 1977 or become a blind follower. His Divine Grace writes in Bg. 10.4-5

. <center>Chapter 10. The Opulence of the Absolute</center>

TEXT 4-5

buddhir jnanam asammohah

ksama satyam damah samah

sukham duhkham bhavo 'bhavo

bhayam cabhayam eva ca

ahimsa samata tustis

tapo danam yaso 'yasah

bhavanti bhava bhutanam

matta eva prthag-vidhah

SYNONYMS

buddhih--intelligence; jnanam--knowledge; asammohah--freedom from doubt; ksama--forgiveness; satyam--truthfulness; damah--control of the senses; samah--control of the mind; sukham--happiness; duhkham--distress; bhavah--birth; abhavah--death; bhayam--fear; ca--and; abhayam--without fear; eva--also; ca--and; ahimsa--nonviolence; samata--equilibrium; tustih--satisfaction; tapah--penance; danam--charity; yasah--fame; ayasah--infamy; bhavanti--become; bhavah--natures; bhutanam--of living entities; mattah--from Me; eva--certainly; prthak-vidhah--differently arranged.

TRANSLATION

Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, self-control and calmness, pleasure and pain, birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy are created by Me alone.

PURPORT

The different qualities of living entities, be they good or bad, are all created by Krsna, and they are described here.

Intelligence refers to the power of analyzing things in proper perspective, and knowledge refers to understanding what is spirit and what is matter. Ordinary knowledge obtained by a university education pertains only to matter, and it is not accepted here as knowledge. Knowledge means knowing the distinction between spirit and matter. In modern education there is no knowledge about the spirit; they are simply taking care of the material elements and bodily needs. Therefore academic knowledge is not complete.

Asammoha, freedom from doubt and delusion, can be achieved when one is not hesitant and when he understands the transcendental philosophy. Slowly but surely he becomes free from bewilderment. Nothing should be accepted blindly; everything should be accepted with care and with caution. Ksama, forgiveness, should be practiced, and one should excuse the minor offenses of others.

Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth.

Self-control means that the senses should not be used for unnecessary personal enjoyment. There is no prohibition against meeting the proper needs of the senses, but unnecessary sense enjoyment is detrimental for spiritual advancement. Therefore the senses should be restrained from unnecessary use. Similarly, the mind should not indulge in unnecessary thoughts; that is called samah, or calmness. Nor should one spend one's time pondering over earning money. That is a misuse of the thinking power. The mind should be used to understand the prime necessity of human beings, and that should be presented authoritatively. The power of thought should be developed in association with persons who are authorities in the scriptures, saintly persons and spiritual masters and those whose thinking is highly developed. Sukham, pleasure or happiness, should always be in that which is favorable for the cultivation of the spiritual knowledge of Krsna consciousness. And similarly, that which is painful or which causes distress is that which is unfavorable for the cultivation of Krsna consciousness. Anything favorable for the development of Krsna consciousness should be accepted, and anything unfavorable should be rejected.

Bhava, birth, should be understood to refer to the body. As far as the soul is concerned, there is neither birth nor death; that we have discussed in the beginning of Bhagavad-gita. Birth and death apply to one's embodiment in the material world. Fear is due to worrying about the future. A person in Krsna consciousness has no fear because by his activities he is sure to go back to the spiritual sky, back home, back to Godhead. Therefore his future is very bright. Others, however, do not know what their future holds; they have no knowledge of what the next life holds. So they are therefore in constant anxiety. If we want to get free from anxiety, then the best course is to understand Krsna and be situated always in Krsna consciousness. In that way we will be free from all fear. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that fear is caused by our absorption in the illusory energy, but those who are free from the illusory energy, those who are confident that they are not the material body, that they are spiritual parts of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and are therefore engaged in the transcendental service of the Supreme Godhead, have nothing to fear. Their future is very bright. This fear is a condition of persons who are not in Krsna consciousness. Bhayam, fearlessness, is only possible for one in Krsna consciousness.

Ahimsa, nonviolence, means that one should not do anything which will put others into misery or confusion. Material activities that are promised by so many politicians, sociologists, philanthropists, etc., do not produce very good results because the politicians and philanthropists have no transcendental vision; they do not know what is actually beneficial for human society. Ahimsa means that people should be trained in such a way that the full utilization of the human body can be achieved. The human body is meant for spiritual realization, so any movement or any commissions which do not further that end commit violence on the human body. That which furthers the future spiritual happiness of the people in general is called nonviolence.

Samata, equanimity, refers to freedom from attachment and aversion. To be very much attached or to be very much detached is not the best. This material world should be accepted without attachment or aversion. Similarly, that which is favorable for prosecuting Krsna consciousness should be accepted; that which is unfavorable should be rejected. That is called samata, equanimity. A person in Krsna consciousness has nothing to reject and nothing to accept unless it is useful in the prosecution of Krsna consciousness.

Tusti, satisfaction, means that one should not be eager to gather more and more material goods by unnecessary activity. One should be satisfied with whatever is obtained by the grace of the Supreme Lord; that is called satisfaction. Tapas means austerity or penance. There are many rules and definitions in the Vedas which apply here, like rising early in the morning and taking a bath. Sometimes it is very troublesome to rise early in the morning, but whatever voluntary trouble one may suffer in this way is called penance. Similarly, there are prescriptions for fasting on certain days of the month. One may not be inclined to practice such fasting, but because of his determination to make advancement in the science of Krsna consciousness, he should accept such bodily troubles which are recommended. However, one should not fast unnecessarily or against Vedic injunctions. One should not fast for some political purpose; that is described in Bhagavad-gita as fasting in ignorance, and anything done in ignorance or passion does not lead to spiritual advancement. Everything done in the mode of goodness does advance one, however, and fasting done in terms of the Vedic injunctions enriches one in spiritual knowledge.

As far as charity is concerned, one should give fifty percent of his earnings to some good cause. And what is a good cause? It is that which is conducted in terms of Krsna consciousness. That is not only a good cause, but it is the best cause. Because Krsna is good, His cause is also good. Thus charity should be given to a person who is engaged in Krsna consciousness. According to Vedic literature, it is enjoined that charity should be given to the brahmanas. This practice is still followed, although not very nicely in terms of the Vedic injunction. But still the injunction is that charity should be given to the brahmanas. Why? Because they are engaged in higher cultivation of spiritual knowledge. A brahmana is supposed to devote his whole life to understanding Brahman. A brahma-jana is one who knows Brahman; he is called a brahmana. Thus charity is offered to the brahmanas because since they are always engaged in higher spiritual service, they have no time to earn their livelihood. In the Vedic literature, charity is also to be awarded to the renouncer of life, the sannyasi. The sannyasis beg from door to door, not for money but for missionary purposes. The system is that they go from door to door to awaken the householders from the slumber of ignorance. Because the householders are engaged in family affairs and have forgotten their actual purpose in life--awakening their Krsna consciousness--it is the business of the sannyasis to go as beggars to the householders and encourage them to be Krsna conscious. As it is said in the Vedas, one should awake and achieve what is due him in this human form of life. This knowledge and method is distributed by the sannyasis; hence charity is to be given to the renouncer of life, to the brahmanas, and similar good causes, not to any whimsical cause.

Yasah, fame, should be according to Lord Caitanya, who said that a man is famous when he is known as a great devotee. That is real fame. If one has become a great man in Krsna consciousness and it is known, then he is truly famous. One who does not have such fame is infamous.

All these qualities are manifest throughout the universe in human society and in the society of the demigods. There are many forms of humanity on other planets, and these qualities are there. Now, for one who wants to advance in Krsna consciousness, Krsna creates all these qualities, but the person develops them himself from within. One who engages in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord develops all the good qualities, as arranged by the Supreme Lord.

Of whatever we find, good or bad, the origin is Krsna. Nothing can manifest in this material world which is not in Krsna. That is knowledge; although we know that things are differently situated, we should realize that everything flows from Krsna.

theist · April 9, 2007

Methinks there is much more risk of cutting yourself off from His Divine Grace and the rest of our guru parampara if you stay in ISKCON and ignore what has actually happened to it since 1977 or become a blind follower. His Divine Grace writes in Bg. 10.4-5

Certainly his mission is of a much finer substance than just living under an authorized roof with an Iskcon sign on the door.

Puru Das, das anudas · April 9, 2007

Yes Iskcon members are being seduced into so-called higher teaching's on rasa but that is partly because they have been made suseptable to such by the less than inspiring edicts from the GBC and the faith wounding interference in presenting Srila Prabhupada's books by the BBT in changing his books.

Who has been seduced by "so called higher teachings."? Are you refering to those who have decided to affiliate with the sahajiya babjis of Radha Kunda, or anyone who has "left" institutional iskcon?

The teachings of Srila Rupa Gosvami, our rasacarya, are not "so called anything," but an essential part of our Gaudiya siddhanta. A very important part directly inspired and ordered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself,and taught in great depth by His Divine Grace throughout his books, lectures and vanih.

e.g.

<center>Karunaya-avatirnah Kalau

Compassionate Avatara of Kali-yuga

</center> <center>by Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja

</center> Translated into English for the first time in Rays of The Harmonist [Karttika 2006]

Translated from Sri Gaudiya Patrika Year 7, Issue 1, March 1956

http://bvml.org/ACBSP/kak_caoky.html

Please be specific, and provide names, dates and places of disciples who have been so "seduced" by sahajiyism or kindly retract such an implied value judgement of anyone who accepts a rasika siksa guru in line with Srila Rupa Gosvami and also in line with Srila Prabhupada, who is also a Rupanuga Vaisnava acarya.

Puru Das, das anudas · April 9, 2007

Certainly his mission is of a much finer substance than just living under an authorized roof with an Iskcon sign on the door.

Thank you. We finally agree on some point.

theist · April 9, 2007

Who has been seduced by "so called higher teachings."? The teachings of Srila Rupa Gosvami, our rasacarya, are not "so called anything," but adn essential part of our Gaudiya siddhanta. A very important part directly inspired and ordered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself,and taught in great depth by His Divine Grace throughout his books, lectures and vanih.

Please be specific, and provide names, dates and places of disciples who have been so "seduced" by sahajiyism or kindly retract such an implied value judgement of anyone who accepts a rasika siksa guru in line with Srila Rupa Gosvami and also in line with Srila Prabhupada, who is also a Rupanuga Vaisnava acarya.

Not saying the teachings themselves are so-called but I am saying there are individuals who after being disenchanted with present Iskcon are in a state of vulnerability and can be seduced into thinking they are prematurely transcending the basics and moving into a higher rasa.

Then there is the infamous gopi bhava club. Similar mentality. No other guru in sight at that time. This was not directed at your guru so settle down Puru. Although I do know several long time disciples of Srila Prabhupada who fit what I have said and went over to NM's association. Now I am not saying they are seduced by some teacher with villianous intent but rather seduced by maya into prematurely thinking they are more qualified then they are.

That said I fully understand that the Lord in the heart may direct a disciple of Srila Prabhupada's to hear from another acarya to enhance his Krsna consciousness. That is between him and the Lord. Guru is one as Caitya guru and His manifestations are many. The only requirement is that the disciple be guided by God and not make moves out of frustration and/or thinking he is more advanced then he really is.

As to your demand for names places dates etc. I will only say that I hope one day you drop you inquisitor mentality and learn to talk to people more on a one to one basis. As it is you have a prosecueters mentality without even a law degree so I refuse to play your game.

Also I am not interested in going for another tit for tat sparring session with you over this so please don't start.

theist · April 9, 2007

Thank you. We finally agree on some point.

Not finally Puru this has been my postion since long before 1977 and I have expressed it hundreds of times before. Finally you heard it and for that I am grateful.

gHari · April 9, 2007

Srila Prabhupada spoke mostly about the ABCs because that is what his audience required. Time and circumstance dictated what he could say. They needed to know about the soul. They did not need to pretend to be gopis, although some did invent the Gopi-Bhava Club which would need to be crushed by Prabhupada.

We were dogs. We got what we needed. We will always get what we need. That is the mercy of our dear Sri Krsna.

Amen

Puru Das, das anudas · April 9, 2007

This was not directed at your guru so settle down Puru. Although I do know several long time disciples of Srila Prabhupada who fit what I have said and went over to NM's association. Now I am not saying they are seduced by some teacher with villianous intent but rather seduced by maya into prematurely thinking they are more qualified then they are.

Thank you for not directing such a remark at Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja, or Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja, who are both my siksa guru's. His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is my diksa guru, so please keep things accurate. My emotional state is not your conern either prabhu. In NOI His Divine Grace writes:

Similarly, anger can be controlled. We cannot stop anger altogether, but if we simply become angry with those who blaspheme the Lord or the devotees of the Lord, we control our anger in Krsna consciousness. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu became angry with the miscreant brothers Jagai and Madhai, who blasphemed and struck Nityananda Prabhu. In His Siksastaka Lord Caitanya wrote, trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna: "One should be humbler than the grass and more tolerant than the tree." One may then ask why the Lord exhibited His anger. The point is that one should be ready to tolerate all insults to one's own self, but when Krsna or His pure devotee is blasphemed, a genuine devotee becomes angry and acts like fire against the offenders. Krodha, anger, cannot be stopped, but it can be applied rightly. It was in anger that Hanuman set fire to Lanka, but he is worshiped as the greatest devotee of Lord Ramacandra. This means that he utilized his anger in the right way. Arjuna serves as another example. He was not willing to fight, but Krsna incited his anger: "You must fight!" To fight without anger is not possible. Anger is controlled, however, when utilized in the service of the Lord."

NOI

Purport Verse 1

So if you were directing your remark in the direction of Vaisnavas that I have love and afffection for, it would certainly be within my right and within

the scope of bona fide behavior to react. Certainly they have been falsely accused on these forums many times, and even now you maintain a judgemental attitude toward some godbrothers who have chosen to hear from them. You did say:

". . . I do know several long time disciples of Srila Prabhupada who fit what I have said and went over to NM's association. . . "

This judgement is simply one man's opinion, and if you make such statements online don't expect everyone to roll over and accept your evaluation.

theist · April 9, 2007

Yes, and personally I have yet the assimilate the ABC's. I do have a feeling though that when I do learn the ABC's from Prabhupada's books and tapes those very words that taught me the ABC's will then start to reveal the DEF's. Prabhupada's books are not stagnent. I believe if I could perfectly hear just one of his descriptions of Krsna I would then enter the Spiritual World where all would open up to me. But since I don't really want that yet I don't get it.

I remember a quote from Srila Prabhupada where he said that the translating from sanskrit to English was not hard but the difficult thing was putting it in a way would be comprehensible to such as we in the west. Excuse my paraphase but that is the gist. This is very much in line with the mission of Sri Caitanya who made the highest accessable to the lowest.

But I don't disparage those that have and are moving in to higher planes and hearing from other acaryas. I say Godspeed to them. Freedom of movement and expression is fundemental to the soul. If someone is directed by the Lord to another association of devotees then that is perfect. No religious organization can claim ownership of it's congregation. Everyone is free to follow their own inspirations.

Puru Das, das anudas · April 9, 2007

We all vote with our feet. And by the way you should know that the moderator is editing my posts since he finds some of the information I posted too much truth. But thanks to him. His cuts are fine.

theist · April 9, 2007

Thank you for not directing such a remark at Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja, or Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja, who are both my siksa guru's. His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is my diksa guru, so please keep things accurate. My emotional state is not your conern either prabhu. In NOI His Divine Grace writes:

No I have no desire to throw stones at anyone let alone those propagating love for Krsna. I attended one lecture given by NM in Vrndavan. I did not feel inspired to seek his siksa myself but everyone else in the room obviously did. More power (bhakti-shakti) to them.

Also I am not trying to hide behind Srila Prabhupada's dhoti as I have never correctly followed his instructions either. I am so dull it seems that I will die a layman for sure but at least I hope to take some solid sukriti with me for further progress. There are basically just a few things that I feel compelled to speak out against. One is sectarianism and religious eccleasticaliam and the other is the personality cult mentality that often forms around a certain guru or teacher. That teacher may have nothing to do with either happening in his name but both always spring up.

You may think all of those that come from Iskcon and joined your sanga are free from the above two misconceptions but I disagree. I don't believe any sanga is free from such. You know these people are my friends also from the very earlier 70's. And I called you on you demanding names places dates etc. because that is what you did. I refuse to be interrogated by anyone and I don't wish to write peoples names down as I believe the thing then slips into the realm of mundane gossip. Besides the ones we gossip against today for happenings in the past may have moved on into a proper understanding. Nothing is stagnent in the universe. One thing I really appreciate about someday being liberated from matter is the past that I now think belongs to me will be left eternally behind. My past is dark and cannot enter the worlds of Light.

As as I remember I cut of talking to you about if reading Srila Prabhupada's books and hearing his tapes was actual hearing from a sadhu or not. I think it is and you see an appreciable difference so it was that topic I no longer will debate with you over. I also remember several post of mine where I expressed my desire to hear from you on other Krsna topics of which there is no limit. I totally acknowledge that you have much Krsna conscious knowledge that I could learn from but we are at an impass on that particular subject. I also know that your Krsna conscious practice in service and dedication far far eclipses mine. I am not kissin' up to you Puru I really do know that.

Please forgive my past harsh speech which has caused you any disturbance of mind. I know that there are very many other victims of my over bearing and puffed up mouth out there and I apologize to them also. I am trying to change and become more gentle. What else can I do?

Namaste

Gaurasundara · April 10, 2007

I am trying to change and become more gentle. What else can I do?

Dear Theist, I very much applaud this attitude of yours. This is what Vaishnavism is all about. Thank you.

Puru Das, das anudas · April 10, 2007

No I have no desire to throw stones at anyone let alone those propagating love for Krsna. I attended one lecture given by NM in Vrndavan. I did not feel inspired to seek his siksa myself but everyone else in the room obviously did. More power (bhakti-shakti) to them.

Thank you! Love is never forced. Mamata (greed) for the association of any particular sad guru is a personal matter that I never interfere with.As I said I vote with my feet.

Also I am not trying to hide behind Srila Prabhupada's dhoti as I have never correctly followed his instructions either. I am so dull it seems that I will die a layman for sure but at least I hope to take some solid sukriti with me for further progress. There are basically just a few things that I feel compelled to speak out against. One is sectarianism and religious eccleasticaliam and the other is the personality cult mentality that often forms around a certain guru or teacher. That teacher may have nothing to do with either happening in his name but both always spring up.

Then we agree yet again. On another thread I already recommended this essay by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura,which addresses this very issue very adequately:

Non-Sectarian Vaisnava-Dharma

[On the nature of sectarianism from the

introduction to the Sri Krsna Samhita]

http://bvml.org/SBTP/nsvd.htm

excerpt: ". . .

Sectarianism is a natural byproduct of the Absolute Truth. When acaryas first ascertain and instruct the Truth, it is not polluted with sectarianism. But the rules and regulations received through disciplic succession regarding the goal and the method of achieving it are changed in due course of time according to the mentality and locale of the people. A rule that is followed by one society is not necessarily accepted in another society. That is why one community is different from another. As a community gradually develops more respect for its own standards, it develops hatred towards other communities and considers their standards inferior. These sectarian symptoms are seen in all countries since time immemorial. This is prominent amongst neophytes and found to some extent amongst madhyama-adhikaris. Amongst uttama-adhikaris, however, there is no trace of sectarianism. Adherence to a particular standard is the prominent symptom of a society. There are three types of standards-alocakagata, alocanagata, and alocyagata. Alocakagata is when sectarianists accept some external signs. Examples of alocakagata are tilaka, neck beads, saffron robes, and the baptism that is practiced

abroad.. . . "

You may think all of those that come from Iskcon and joined your sanga are free from the above two misconceptions but I disagree. I don't believe any sanga is free from such. You know these people are my friends also from the very earlier 70's.

I have no such illusion. Every institution and sanga has so many different planes flying at different altitudes. My experience in this sanga, since l998, however is that any sectarian thinking found comes more from some Indian born Bengali brahmacaries who have not yet grasped the actual mood of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. My personal opinion,and experience is that far less of the disciples of His Divine Grace who have accepted siksa from SBVNM are plagued by institutional and sectarian misconceptions.

And I called you on you demanding names places dates etc. because that is what you did. I refuse to be interrogated by anyone and I don't wish to write peoples names down as I believe the thing then slips into the realm of mundane gossip. Besides the ones we gossip against today for happenings in the past may have moved on into a proper understanding. Nothing is stagnent in the universe. One thing I really appreciate about someday being liberated from matter is the past that I now think belongs to me will be left eternally behind. My past is dark and cannot enter the worlds of Light.

I always ask for specifics in such discussions. When someone declares that Srila Prabhupada said, I want to know, when he said it, where he said it, to whome he spoke and in context of what inquiry or circumstance. Just like in this thread the original poster claimed:

If we feel we are not deriving higher understanding through Srila Prabhupada’s teachings then our faith can never withstand anything more. Besides, what will we gain if we go elsewhere?

If Srila Prabhupada implored us to stay within his mission, it meant it was important for him. The power of mercy and every other spiritual benediction are inbuilt in his desire. Is there not the risk of cutting ourselves off if we leave?

We hardly hear of devotees defecting from other spiritual mathas because it is sacrilege to do so, an abomination to their respective guru/founders. It is an embarrassment for Srila Prabhupada if we leave for something supposedly ‘greener’ or ‘higher.’

I did not take the time to answer each one of these speculative assertions directly. Unlike His Divine Grace, I am simply too busy to try to teach abc to an iskcon wallah who thinks nothing is "wrong in the state of Denmark." That would be like talking to someone in New Orleans after the levies broke and first off telling him everything is ok. What matter a little water???

His use of such words like, :"abomination,supposedly greener or higher" proves his lack of perception concerning the issue of siksa guru. He is certainly a prisoner of the mental institution.

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET9809/ET19-2250.html

More power to him. If he is satisfied in iskcon then he should most certainly stay and serve there, very far away from me. He wrote:

The power of mercy and every other spiritual benediction are inbuilt in his desire.

No doubt that the mercy of any sad guru, and our guru parampara is unlimited and transcends time and space, but pray tell what is the sanskrit for this bit of word jugglery? Where in sastra does it say this in any verse? Where is the quote from His Divine Grace to the same exact point? Why such persons put so much stock

in their own thinking is beyond me. Kundali prabhu used to observe that some devotees simply "think they can think." Huge mistake in spiritual life to invent anything from your overactive imagination or an over developed mundane intellect.

As as I remember I cut of talking to you about if reading Srila Prabhupada's books and hearing his tapes was actual hearing from a sadhu or not. I think it is and you see an appreciable difference so it was that topic I no longer will debate with you over.

Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja told me to study Srila Prabhupada's books very carefully. He told me they are filled with gems and that I should find them.

I scrutinize those books and audio and videotapes under the guidance of siksa guru and I am appreciating their depth more than I did when HDG was physically present. That is the mercy of my siksa gurus, and of that I am convinced. That is also ultimately Srila Prabhupada's direct mercy, that he has led me to them and is still giving me as much mercy as I am willing to accept.

In N.Y when he was on tour here 6 years ago, I observed Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja listening to tapes of His Divine Grace's "sermons" in his car, that were given to him by Vaikuntanatha a few years earlier. Later during his harikatha I heard him repeat some of the analogies. Hearing them from him, as he had heard them from His Divine Grace was simply double barrel potent. Hearing directly from any Vaisnava who has full realization of the absolute truth is an experience that is not replaced by reading the books of any acarya, even those of your diksa guru. Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja explained that sadhu sanga is not gotten from any tape machine. Of course hearing His Divine Grace's tape is hearing from a sadhu. It is not however the identical experience of sitting at his lotus feet in his physical proximity. There was not any off switch, fsat foward or tv or tape recorder playing, no distraction and his merciful glance was there. Technology has its limits, even though the message coming through the machine is transcendental.

That is my only point, and I don't waste time arguing sentiment or soft ritvik thinking any longer either. I usually just cut and paste the brer rabbit and the tar baby story to make my point.

http://www.otmfan.com/html/brertar.htm

At the San Francisco Rathayatra Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja attended.

http://bvml.org/SBBTM/index.htm

He was not asked to speak, despite his seniority, his long standing relationship with Srila Prabhupada . He met Srila Prabhupada in the 1905's before he left Vrndavana. SP personally invited him to join him on his journey west. He could not go as he was the secretary of his own gurudeva, Srila Bhakti Dayita Madhava Maharaja

http://bvml.org/SBDMM/index.htm

Sadly, Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja, even though he is the President Acarya of the Sri Caitanya Gaudiya matha,and a highly respected scholar and acarya in his own right, was mostly ignored by the parade coordinators. The festival managers played instead a tape of His Divine Grace speaking one lecture. No one really gave it much attention. I asked him if playing the tape was ok. He said to me, "If they give it full attention as though he is actually sitting there then ok, otherwise not." I asked him if he was offended that they had not asked him to give hari katha? HE replied, "No, I cannot speak at a bazaar." He was refering to the festival site, which had soda booths, rock and roll on one stage, so many stores and in one corner the Deities of Lord Balarama, Lady Subhadra and Lord Jagannatha. In the Gaudiya Matha pravachan and hari katha are taken very seriously and always spoken directly in front of the Deities.

I also remember several post of mine where I expressed my desire to hear from you on other Krsna topics of which there is no limit. I totally acknowledge that you have much Krsna conscious knowledge that I could learn from but we are at an impass on that particular subject. I also know that your Krsna conscious practice in service and dedication far far eclipses mine. I am not kissin' up to you Puru I really do know that.

Please forgive my past harsh speech which has caused you any disturbance of mind. I know that there are very many other victims of my over bearing and puffed up mouth out there and I apologize to them also. I am trying to change and become more gentle. What else can I do?

Namaste

I never take philosophical debate personally. No apology is necessary. All I am made of is the mercy of my gurudeva's. It is their understanding that matters and my personal relative opinions are as valuable as the wind when you are trying to light a candle.