srimad bhagavatam

[Guest guest]

how many books is srimad bhagavatam?

[Guest guest]

ive got a first book (canto) first part- chapters 1 to 9...

when i look at amazon it sais that "their" first canto, first part have 7 chapters..

 

why is this difference?

[Guest guest]

/srimadbhagavatam.com/en i guess this is what i was looking for, tnx:)

[mahak]

Haribol. You have struck pure gold. What is Srimad Bhagavatam? The answer is a life study, beginning with Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who brought Srimad Bhagavatam to the west as Narada Muni has brought His Vina. When he arrived in NYC in the mid sixties, he had the translated Srimad Bhagavatam, first canto, in three volumes. I am presently writing a long paper in praise of just this Vina of Srila Prabhupada, this wonderful and perfect and complete vehicle that we can ride all the way to Goloka Vrndavan, just this first canto, nothing more.

 

Ill save my philosophical treatise for thaqt paper and answer your question here. I have the original printings, which by Srila Prabhupada, are as follows. (Note, sometimes subsequent printings may be different. For instance, the first Chaitanya Charitamrta book I got was a larger book than the rest, different printing. So when I have my originals, the second volume of adi lila is a different size than the other 16 volumes of this work. I mention this because my originals came like this).

 

canto one-3 volumes

canto two-2 volumes

canto three-4 volumes

canto four-4 volumes

canto five-2 (very thick) volumes

canto six-3 volumes

canto seven-3 volumes

canto eight-3 volumes

canto nine-3 volumes

canto ten-3 volumes

 

This is where Srila Prabhupada finished his pastimes. His disciples finished this twelve canto work, but I dont know how many volumes the completion of canto ten and the eleventh and twelfth cantos produced.

 

Srila Prabhupada, who also BTW is known as Srimad Bhagavatam, placed all twelve cantos in the first canto he brought to the west with him.

 

I love the title of this thread, it surely will go places, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Puru Das, das anudas]

 

how many books is srimad bhagavatam?

Depends which printing you get ahold of.

 

His Divine Grace published three volumes only in india lfrom 1962-1964

http://bvml.org/books/SB/bhagwatams.html

 

On my book shelf, I count 28 volumes published during his nara lila from 1972-76.

http://bvml.org/books/SB/index.html

 

from his introduction:

". . . Srimad-Bhagavatam begins with the definition of the ultimate source. It is a bona fide commentary on the Vedanta-sutra by the same author, Srila Vyasadeva, and gradually it develops into nine cantos up to the highest state of God realization. The only qualification one needs to study this great book of transcendental knowledge is to proceed step by step cautiously and not jump forward haphazardly like with an ordinary book. It should be gone through chapter by chapter, one after another. The reading matter is so arranged with its original Sanskrit text, its English transliteration, synonyms, translation and purports so that one is sure to become a God-realized soul at the end of finishing the first nine cantos.

 

The Tenth Canto is distinct from the first nine cantos because it deals directly with the transcendental activities of the Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna. One will be unable to capture the effects of the Tenth Canto without going through the first nine cantos. The book is complete in twelve cantos, each independent, but it is good for all to read them in small installments one after another.

 

I must admit my frailties in presenting Srimad-Bhagavatam, but still I am hopeful of its good reception by the thinkers and leaders of society on the strength of the following statement of Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.5.11):

<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

tad-vag-visargo janatagha-viplavo

yasmin prati-slokam abaddhavaty api

namany anantasya yaso 'nkitani yac

chrnvanti gayanti grnanti sadhavah

"On the other hand, that literature which is full with descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, form and pastimes of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a transcendental creation meant to bring about a revolution in the impious life of a misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though irregularly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest."

Om tat sat

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Dated at Delhi

December 15, 1962"

 

Since his departure in l977 the publishers have changed many things, including the # of volumes, and have printed one volume per canto. Hamsadutta printed smaller sized "original" versions with black bindings , and Bhagavan printed a European version.

[Guest guest]

hi, i would like to ask some questions:

 

1. Did Srila Vyasadeva wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam?

 

2. When was Srimad Bhagavatam written (year)?

 

3. Which important vedic literature is written before Srimad Bhagavatam?

 

4. Which imoprtant vedic literature is written after Srimad Bhagavatam?

[Puru Das, das anudas]

 

hi, i would like to ask some questions:

 

1. Did Srila Vyasadeva wrote the Srimad Bhagavatam?

 

2. When was Srimad Bhagavatam written (year)?

 

3. Which important vedic literature is written before Srimad Bhagavatam?

 

4. Which imoprtant vedic literature is written after Srimad Bhagavatam?

 

1. Yes

2. Why do you need an exact historical date? Try to understand that the version we study is the compilation of the discussion of the sages of Naimisharanya and Suta Gosvami. These sages gathered around 5,000 years ago after the departure of Lord Krsna to His own abode, and also some time after the disappearance of Maharaja Pariksit. The first two chapters of SB explain this history very nicely. Try to examine them carefully to understand how the current version came to bel

 

http://bvml.org/books/SB/01/index.html

http://bvml.org/books/SB/01/01.html

http://bvml.org/books/SB/01/02.html

 

These sages came together at the beginning of kali yuga to perform a huge fire sacrifice to stave off its affect. The ghee for their sacrificial fire would not ignote and burn properly, so they asked 6 questions concerning religiosity and where it had taken shelter. Srila Suta Gosvami was present and had heard the earlier discussion of the King, Maharaja Pariksit and Srila Sukadeva Gosvami,and he repeated to these sages that discussion.

 

3. Before The Srimad Bhagavatam was compiled, Srila Vyasadeva compiled so many srutis (written shastras e.g. the four original Vedas), Mahabharata (the Great history of India), the smrti (spoken literatures) like the 18 puranas. He was not satisfied though and inquired from his spiritual master Narada Rsi, why after writing so many books he was still dissatisfied. This discussion is repeated in the SB and was nicely explained by Srila B.V. Narayana Mahara ina lecture given in

Volgograd, Russia: September 14, 2004

http://bvml.org/SBNM/obgg.html

 

" . . . In Srimad-Bhagavatam we see that only by the grace of his Gurudeva, Narada Rsi, Sri Vyasadeva knew so many truths. He is a manifestation of Krsna Himself, but he had some doubts. He could not understand, “Why am I not satisfied? Why is my soul not satisfied and happy?” Knowing everything, Narada Rsi at once came to him.

Narada Rsi has many manifestations. One manifestation is a servant of Narayana, one is an associate of Krsna in Vraja, one is Naradi-gopi and one is Madhumangala. There is one Narada, but he has many manifestations. Sri Narada can remove the doubts of Krsna Himself, in the form of Vyasadeva. If he will come before Mother Yasoda, she will place her son Krsna’s head on his feet, and he will bless her son, saying, “Be happy.” This is a very wonderful thing!

 

 

Sri Vyasadeva is a manifestation of Krsna. He divided the Vedas into four parts – Rg, Sama, Yajur and Atharva. He wrote the essence of Vedanta, which is Brahma-sutra. He compiled a very large book called Mahabharata, and within Mahabharata he revealed the Bhagavad-gita, the words and teachings of Lord Krsna. He wrote many Puranas – 36 Puranas.

 

Once he was sitting on his asana (seat) on the bank of the Sarasvati River and not feeling happy. He was thinking, “Why am I not happy? I have written down all knowledge for the benefit of the world, including dharma (religion), karma (fruitive activity and elevation to heaven), varnasrama-dharma (the means by which the social castes and spiritual asramas can advance in spiritual life), and bhakti (devotion to the Supreme Lord). But I am not happy. Why is that?”

 

 

Being omnipotent and causelessly merciful, Narada Rsi at once arrived at the asrama of Srila Vyasadeva. A bona fide and qualified guru comes, as Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja came – door to door in Western countries. The people living there did not go to him; he went to them.

 

 

Sri Narada Rsi asked Srila Vyasadeva, “You have performed all your duties to the world, and yet you are not happy. Why are you lamenting?”

Vyasadeva replied, “I do not know why I am not happy. I have done everything.”

 

 

Narada Rsi said, “You are not happy because you have written about dharma (religiosity), kama (sense gratification), arta (economic development) and moksa (liberation), but you have not described the glorification of Lord Krsna. Have you written that Mother Yasoda bound the Supreme Lord?” “No.” “Have you written that Krsna offered His head and flute at the lotus feet of the gopis?” Srila Vyasadeva replied, “No, I have not.” “Krsna laments for the gopis, feeling separation from them. Have you written this? He is atmarama (fully satisfied within) and atmakama (externally fulfilled), so why does He do so? Have you written about this?”

 

 

Sri Narada Muni then told Srila Vyasadeva his own past history, explaining how he reached to the standard of uttama-bhakti. He described how, by taking the remnants of pure devotees’ prasada and by hearing their hari-katha during Caturmasya (the four months of the rainy season when saintly devotees don’t travel, but rather stay in one place and enlighten the residents of that place), he became glorious and realized everything about the Absolute Truth and this world also – and became Narada Rsi. *

 

 

*(Please see chapter4,5 & 6 of First Canto Srimad Bhagavatam for the rest of this history.)

Chapter Four: The Appearance of Sri Narada

http://bvml.org/books/SB/01/04.html

Chapter Five: Narada's Instructions on Srimad-Bhagavatam for Vyasadeva

http://bvml.org/books/SB/01/05.html

Chapter Six: Conversation Between Narada and Vyasadeva

http://bvml.org/books/SB/01/06.html

 

 

This is the process by which one attains his siddha-deha (spiritual body). First svarupa-siddhi (realization within the heart of God’s form and ones own form) comes, and after that vastu-siddhi comes (the stage at which one gives up his material body and attains a body fit for associating with God). All truths about gradual advancement in Krsna Consciousness are found in this history of Srimad-Bhagavatam. First, Narada Rsi served his Gurudeva and the other rsis (saints) and maharsis (saintly kings) in all respects. When he would go with his Gurus to take bath in the river, Narada Rsi would carry cloth for drying them. He would massage them and render all other appropriate services. He would honor the remnants of their prasadam with their permission. This is the process: to serve Gurudeva first. Krsna will then appear in your heart, as in the example of Sri Narada Rsi. He served his gurus, and they gave him the mantra. By the power of mantra, Narada became a high class of devotee in a very short time

 

 

Lord Krsna came to Narada in the form of Lord Narayana and told him, “I regret that during this lifetime you will not be able to see Me anymore. Those who are incomplete in service and who are not completely free from all material taints can hardly see Me.”

 

 

Don’t desire anything. Always chant, remember and serve Gurudeva. If you have any desire other than to serve Krsna your bhakti will come very late. Even if you have a personal desire in relation to serving Krsna, still, your progress will be impeded.

 

 

We should not have any doubt about what is the process of bhakti. Everything has been explained here. Sri Narada Rsi thought, “I will go to a forest in the mood of goodness and serve Krsna there.” He had a slightly independent mood. However, by his separation feelings that were created when Lord Narayana disappeared, his desire was burnt to ashes . He became pure, and Lord Krsna manifested Himself in his heart at once.

I have come to give this message to you. This is the message of Krsna Himself, Srimad-bhagavatam, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami, and the entire guru-parampara. Do not have any doubts in this message. Try to remove your false ego so you can understand and follow the path of pure bhakti."

 

SBVNM

 

 

 

4. There are too many books to list here. All the writings of the Six Govamis of Vrndavana, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, Srila Krsnadas kaviraja Gosvami, the collected works of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and all of the books of our predecesor acaryas are there. In Cc. Srila Prabhupada gives several lists of the books of Srila Rupa and Srila Sanatana Gosvamis. I will look for them and post them seperately.

[Guest guest]

My Gurudeva, Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami is planning on publishing the full Bhagavatam with the commentary of Srila Visvanath Cakravarti. Though Swami Maharaj's is a good attempt, though uncomplete and without the complete commentary of any previous Gaudiya Acarya this next edition will close the book. We plan to publish the 10-12 Cantos first as an addendum to Swamijis work and then the remaining 1-9 Cantos to completion.

 

If Srila Gurudev remains with us to see it through, it will be an unparalleled work completed for the first time by any Gaudiya Acarya in English.

[Puru Das, das anudas]

 

My Gurudeva, Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami is planning on publishing the full Bhagavatam with the commentary of Srila Visvanath Cakravarti. Though Swami Maharaj's is a good attempt, though uncomplete and without the complete commentary of any previous Gaudiya Acarya this next edition will close the book. We plan to publish the 10-12 Cantos first as an addendum to Swamijis work and then the remaining 1-9 Cantos to completion.

 

If Srila Gurudev remains with us to see it through, it will be an unparalleled work completed for the first time by any Gaudiya Acarya in English.

I am also Srila Gurudeva's sisya ( for more than 9 years) and I have never heard him use the words "good attempt" in describing Srila Prabhupada's translation work. Perhaps you should use the English language more carefully prabhuji, lest anyone misunderstand that your remarks might "minimize" Srila Prabhupada's contribution. The only "incomplete" aspect of his translation is that he only had time to translate up to the 13th chapter of the 10th Canto. Otherwise his commentaries,while they may not contain all the details of "every" other tikha by every other Gaudiya acarya, are lacking nothing. Forgive me for correcting you but they also do contain the commentaries of many of the previous acharyas, only not in an obvious way.

 

His Divine Grace did his Bhagavatam purports only after reading and consulting the commentaries of other Vaisnava Acaryas. In fact the SB in sanskrit that he worked from, (which is on his book shelf in the L.A. Iskcon temple)contains for each verse the commentaries of Srila Sridhar Swami, and others. His Divine Grace's genius was that he could summarize and codify the other commentaries into his "own" purport and present the material in a digestable and easily understandable format for neophyte western disciples, and any other readers in general. I have been reading his translations and purports for over 35 years, and now studying them under Srila Gurudeva's anugatya their depth and the transcendental genius of His Divine Grace becomess even more apparant,with each new reading. They are ever fresh and will always be most valuable to the English speaking world, as are the English books of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura etc.

 

 

For the exact names of the other acaryas' tikhas in the SB he used we can consult Pradyumna prabhu, who also worked with the same book. I will try to contact him and ask.

 

There are always many perspectives to any shastra, and Srila Gurudeva is translating the commentaries of one particular acarya, the exalted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. Rather than "close" the book I think better to observe that it will "open" the book, to even deeper understanding. The SB has been expanding over history since it was first spoken in four nutshell verses and gradually expanded to more verses and more commentaries over time. Who is to say that the next acarya who succeeds Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja, will not also take the jiva souls even further in their capacity to appreciate and understand this shastra?

 

 

I appreciate you appreciate the endeavors of your spiritual master. Take note that he is first translating the 10th and 11th and 12th Cantos, and then only going back to 1-9? Why? Because should ne not have sufficient time to finish, in print now are those first nine cantos and part of the 10th, done by His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and they will stand the test of time.

 

Anotehr reason we can understand from Srila Gaura Govinda Maharaja's vanih. He explained that it is not really possible to fully understand and appreciate the 10th Canto without absorbing the information contained in the last two cantos beyond it. Srila Gurudeva knows what is going to benefit the jiva souls eternally. Srila Gurudeva's timing is perfect. As his translation of the Srimad Bhagavad Gita purports of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur perfectly compliment The Bhagavad Gita As It Is, so will this new translation of SB compliment the existing work in English. Also it will be some time for the English versions to be made available. Srila Gurudeva is translating from sanskrit into Hindi, which will then have to be translated yet again into English.

 

Please forgive my correction, but many readers on these forums will not understand your choice of words and perhaps can relate to my observations a little more easily.

your servant

uncle puru

[Guest guest]

Yes, well I was in the room when he said, "I think my books will be 'more' than what Swamiji gave." And if you've read them -- which I'm sure you have -- you should realize that. What Srila Gurudeva is doing is revolutionary. No other acarya has, with such rasik realization, distributed the confidential meanings and essential purports on Gaudiya Siddhanta while maintaining the traditional integrity of all these texts as Srila Gurudeva has done -- nobody.

 

And perhaps it is a personal opinion, but I think it would be impossible to 'codify' the words of all predecessor acaryas into one particular purport.. And Swamiji by no means did that, If you read Sanantana's Vaisnava tosani, or visvanath's sararth darsini then perhaps you may then be qualified to say something. No other Acarya has done that, nor have they claimed to.

 

What did our acaryas do? Whenever they wrote, they closely read their previous acaryas commentaries, and with a straw in their teeth, they wrote any remnants the previous acaryas had mercifully left behind for them. Why is Gurudeva not writing his own 'bhaktivedanta purports' on Rasa Pancadhyayi, because 'they [they -- sridhar, jiva, sanatana and visvanath] have given everything, what more can I give?' The only way to substantiate such an action is to do it the way our more contemporary Acaryas have done (That is BSST Prabhupada and the generation after him, BPK, Bhakti vivek bharati, bhakti dayit madhava, etc). Which, if you've read any other edition of bhagavatam published in Bengali you will see that they FIRST provide the previous acaryas commentary before their own. Then they will, humbly, include their own commentary.

 

What Swamiji did was quite revolutionary and I have great respect for it, but it was by no means whatsoever the be all and end all of Bhagavatam.

[Puru Das, das anudas]

 

Yes, well I was in the room when he said, "I think my books will be 'more' than what Swamiji gave." And if you've read them -- which I'm sure you have -- you should realize that.

 

You are missing my point completely. Srila Prabhupada said in l936:

 

"Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been arranged this evening to the acaryadeva is not a sectarian concern, for when we speak of the fundamental principle of gurudeva or acaryadeva, we speak of something that is of universal application. There does not arise any question of discriminating my guru from yours or anyone else’s.

There is only one guru, who appears in an infinity of forms to teach you, me and all others. . ."

from:

 

 

What Srila Gurudeva is doing is revolutionary. No other acarya has, with such rasik realization, distributed the confidential meanings and essential purports on Gaudiya Siddhanta while maintaining the traditional integrity of all these texts as Srila Gurudeva has done -- nobody.

What is your name ? Where were you and when did you hear Srila Gurudeva say ""I think my books will be 'more' than what Swamiji gave."

Where can we read the whole conversation and not just one sentence out of context that will be easily misinterpreted by envious persons who have no mamata for Srila Narayana Maharaja's association?

 

In one sense the SB recitation by Suta Gosvami is "more" than the earlier recitation of Srila Sukadeva Gosvami.After all it also contains additional questions and answers of the sages of Naimisharanya. Such recitation by Srila Suta Gosvami only serves to glorify all the more the earlier speaker,his spiritual master Srila Sukadeva Gosvami, does it not???

 

Every acarya is unique in himself. Kindly examine samples of the vanih of Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja

http://bvml.org/SBRSM/index.htm

 

and in particular his commentary on the 4 catur slokas of the Bg.:

http://bvml.org/SBRSM/thtotsa.html

 

before you falsely imply that Srila Gurudeva is the "only" rasika Vaisnava acarya. Certainly his writing is unique. No one else has translated into Hindi the particular tikhas and choice of literature that he has done. That is the nature of our guru parampara. They each make a particular contribution to the Gaudiya library, as did the four sampradaya acaryas when they each presented their respective philosophical answers to Sankaracarya,

 

Also if you examine carefully the writings of Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Maharaja,

http://bvml.org/SBPPG/index.htm

You will find many parrallels to Srila Gurudeva's classes and purports.

 

 

His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada also wrote:

 

in the purport to Cc. Adi lila 7.37,:

 

“ Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was an ideal acarya. An acarya is an ideal teacher who knows the purpose of the revealed scriptures, behaves exactly according to their injunctions and teaches his students to adopt these principles also. As an ideal acarya, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu devised ways to capture all kinds of atheists and materialists. Every acarya has a specific means of propagating his spiritual movement with the aim of bringing men to Krsna consciousness. Therefore, the method of one acarya may be different from that of another, but the ultimate goal is never neglected. Srila Rupa Gosvami recommends:

 

tasmat kenapy upayena

manah krsne nivesayet

sarve vidhi-nisedha syur

etayor eva kinkarah

 

An acarya should devise a means by which people may somehow or other come to Krsna consciousness. First they should become Krsna conscious, and all the prescribed rules and regulations may later gradually be introduced. In our Krsna consciousness movement we follow this policy of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu...”

“...It is the concern of the acarya to show mercy to the fallen souls. In this connection, desa-kala-patra (the place, the time and the object) should be taken into consideration...”

Cc. Adi lila 7.37-38

 

It behooves you to inject false distinction into the mix in your inappropriatel worded attempt to glorify Srila Narayan Maharaj's literary contribution. Makes me beleive that you do not realize Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja's mood, and while you claim to be his sisya, you are really a sectarian thinker hiding behind a pen name "guest" pretending to be his sisya. Seems to me your attempting to actually discredit rather than glorify him. We see the same narrow thinking from many institutionalized iskcon wallahs and gm bengali fanatics It wears the same.

 

 

 

 

And perhaps it is a personal opinion, but I think it would be impossible to 'codify' the words of all predecessor acaryas into one particular purport.. And Swamiji by no means did that, If you read Sanantana's Vaisnava tosani, or visvanath's sararth darsini then perhaps you may then be qualified to say something. No other Acarya has done that, nor have they claimed to.

 

Sorry you don't appreciate the depth of Srila Prabhupada's writing. A clear example of what I am pointing out regarding "codify" is his The Nectar of Instruction

 

If you examine the translation of this same book, Sri Upadesamrta of Srila Rupa Gosvmi, by Srila Narayana Maharaja

Sri Upadesamrta View

Download

 

you can read in English the separate tikhas of Radha Raman Gosvami, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. Compare them to Srila Swami Maharaja's commentaries and it is abundantly clear to any open minded reader that he summarized the same information and also added his own stamp, and made the other commentaries digestable and easily understood by the neophyte and advanced English reader. Srila Narayana Maharja so apprecaites this book that he has given many classes based on the Bhaktivedanta purports in it and has also printed them in his English book,

Essence of All Advise. Sorry I don't have a copy of it online, as of yet.

 

Srila Prabhupada never claimed he was the "only" Gaudiya commentator. He expresses abundant appreciation for and quotes the Six Gosvamis, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and almost every other Vaisnava author throughout his Cc. and SB purports. Your attitude makes me think you have not read his books carefully. Kindly don't put words in his mouth,or mine, or anyone else's if you please.

 

 

What did our acaryas do? Whenever they wrote, they closely read their previous acaryas commentaries, and with a straw in their teeth, they wrote any remnants the previous acaryas had mercifully left behind for them. Why is Gurudeva not writing his own 'bhaktivedanta purports' on Rasa Pancadhyayi, because 'they [they -- sridhar, jiva, sanatana and visvanath] have given everything, what more can I give?' The only way to substantiate such an action is to do it the way our more contemporary Acaryas have done (That is BSST Prabhupada and the generation after him, BPK, Bhakti vivek bharati, bhakti dayit madhava, etc). Which, if you've read any other edition of bhagavatam published in Bengali you will see that they FIRST provide the previous acaryas commentary before their own. Then they will, humbly, include their own commentary.

 

What Swamiji did was quite revolutionary and I have great respect for it, but it was by no means whatsoever the be all and end all of Bhagavatam.

 

No one has made the claim that Srila Prabhupada's books are the "be all and end all." except yourself. I haven't seen this style of diatribe and false insinuation since the VNN forums.

 

Most of the readers of His Divine Grace's books, ,including myself, are not fluent in Bengali. His contribution in English is certainly unique. Who else except perhaps Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has made KC so readily available to the English speaking world? Was that not the desire and mood of SBSST, to offer KC to all human beings around the world, not just India. Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja, another living acarya says that very thing boldly in his classes, spoken in Hindi in Delhi, and translated by his secretary Tamal Krsna Prabhu into English for the benefit of everyone from the west is not bi-lingual.

 

 

"With all due respepct" actually means with none at all, and you sound like a follower of the part of the GM that lacked sufficient appreciation of His Divine Grace's preaching. Some members of the GM (names are unecessary) also could similarly not appreciate His Divine Grace's Krsna Book (summary study of the 10th Canto) because it was written in prose, with the purports melted throught the descriptions of the lila, and hasa no sankskrit verse and word for word translations. Such thinking places form over substance. Such thinkers also don't see the value of the Nectar of Devotion, the summar study of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu either.

 

You are no doubt a subtle fault finder extraordinaire, and I doubt seriously that you are the sisya of SBVNM. Who are you anyway?

 

It behooves anyone to glorify one spiritual master at the "expense" of another.

[Puru Das, das anudas]

 

.

And perhaps it is a personal opinion, but I think it would be impossible to 'codify' the words of all predecessor acaryas into one particular purport.. And Swamiji by no means did that, If you read Sanantana's Vaisnava tosani, or visvanath's sararth darsini then perhaps you may then be qualified to say something. No other Acarya has done that, nor have they claimed to.

 

 

I did not say that His Divine grace "codified the words of all the predeecesor acaryas into one particular purport" did I? I said

 

"His Divine Grace's genius was that he could summarize and codify the other commentaries into his "own" purport and present the material in a digestable and easily understandable format for neophyte western disciples, and any other readers in general."

 

I also said I would contact Pradyumna prabhu

 

"For the exact names of the other acaryas' tikhas in the SB he used we can consult Pradyumna prabhu, who also worked with the same book. I will try to contact him and ask."

 

and find out which Vaisnava acaryas His Divine Grace refered to (codified if you will) when he did his SB translation work.

 

I can repeat what I have heard from my preceptors according to my own realization. Some realization,however limited it may be, to the potency and efficacy of His Divine Grace's books, I do have, whether you think so or not.

 

You have read the Vaisnava tosani and Sararth darsini in their original language??? Making claims that I said this or that when I did not is typical internet diatribe. Call the dog bad and then hang him. Shame GuestAN, cheap shots.

[Guest guest]

Undoubtedly I am a disciple of Srila Gurudeva. And I will concede that, in the English Language, Swamijis books are the best currently available. Although his summary study of BRS was the best for its time, I do think Gurudeva's upcoming translation of the entire work with commentaries will be well received, as will his upcoming Bhagavatam and Caitanya Caritamrta. I have nothing against Swamiji, and do agree that he was one of the greatest preachers the Gaudiya Math has ever produced. His books, even today, are the best currently available, though that does not mean that more work could be done to improve that currently available. From the Gaudiya Math point of view, and particularly in Gurudeva's sanga, I appreciates Srila Gurudeva's humility so much. He reveres Swamiji as a Siksa Guru, despite him having been a sannyasi for much longer than Swamiji and himself being present at the sannyasa ceremony of Swamiji. And despite him giving openly, so much more than Swamiji ever did. Personally, I don't see why we must compromise our own methods. Yes, we do things differently than Swamiji and ISKCON, so what? Why the need to draw the connection back to Swamiji all the time? If you can't find the connection between what Srila Gurudeva and Swamiji says then it cannot be bonafide? Please. Who cares if Srila Gurudeva teaches and gives few things differently than Swamiji. I love Srila Gurudeva and care for nothing else. What he does is eternally perfect and supreme, and we as disciples should understand that. So many times devotees say, oh, Swamiji did it THIS way, and in Swamiji's time we did it in THAT way. I appreciate what Gurudeva's giving completely and there's no need for anything else whatsoever.

 

And God Puru, don't flip out, none of this is directed at you.

[Puru Das, das anudas]

 

Undoubtedly I am a disciple of Srila Gurudeva.

Then kindly stop hiding behind a pen name, guest AN. Why are we wasting our valuable time here in the contentious atmosphere of cyber debate instead of absorbing ourselves more in hari nama? Computer connections in India aren't easy and if you don't have any phone line you have to spend laxmi to post from a cyber cafe. In Govardhana one brahamcari (and that could be you) asked me why I wasted my time posting here I should have asked him why he wastes time reading here? .

 

Why don't we both chant one lac tomorrow instead of going tit for tat? I really have too much to do to waste much more effort here anyway prahu. Posting on these forums sometimes is like having malaria. You get a fever and it lasts for a while and then you recover. Jump into a discussion here and lose so much valuable time,and for what? An exercise in false ego, a jalpa discussion in the mode of passion, tit for tat tal fruit discussions. Shame on me for speaking too much, yet again to the tar baby.

http://www.otmfan.com/html/brertar.htm

 

Sripad Tridandi Maharaj very kindly mailed me a book detailing the history and philosophies of the four Vaisnava sampradayas. I have to study it very carefully so I can speak on the topic later this summer in the U.K. So please take whatever last word you want to in this exchange, because after this post I just can't invest any more time discussing with you how you think and feel about my diksa guru, and his legacy.

 

 

And I will concede that, in the English Language, Swamijis books are the best currently available.

Thank you. How magananimous of you prabhu. Sripad B.V. Van Maharaja has a full set of Cc. and SB in the small room in the Kesavji Gaudiya Matha where he used to live. Thing is that only devotees like yourself, who are fluent in English, can have any idea at all of the value of Srila Swami Maharaja's writing. The many brahmacaries who speak only Bengali and/or Hindi will remain clueless to their value. What can be done? Sadly in this life we will never be able to read the tikhas they do in bengali, and they will not be able to read our sources either. Seems apparant that Krsna has made an arrangement for everyone, regardless of his janma, to be able to connect to the absolute truth through the medium of print, whatever language.

 

 

Although his summary study of BRS was the best for its time, I do think Gurudeva's upcoming translation of the entire work with commentaries will be well received, as will his upcoming Bhagavatam and Caitanya Caritamrta.

There is no doubt that Srila Gurudeva's writing will also pass the "test of time." Consider then how would you appreciate it if 30 years down the road someone in a forum treats his efforts so glibly as you do Swamiji's and observes that Srila Gurudeva's translations were a "good atempt.?" or "the best for their time."

 

 

 

I have nothing against Swamiji, and do agree that he was one of the greatest preachers the Gaudiya Math has ever produced. His books, even today, are the best currently available, though that does not mean that more work could be done to improve that currently available. From the Gaudiya Math point of view, and particularly in Gurudeva's sanga,

 

No one ever suggested that the Gaudiya library was a closed shop.You make a lot of false assumptions and then address them a though someone had actually said such things. What a useless exercise prabhu. Better we chant and study more and post less.You can stop making observations of things no one said, and I won't have to waste time answering them.

 

Your post points out a difference between us. You think you are a brahmacari in the "Gaudiya Matha", and I believe "I am of no faction" . I am firmly convinced that Srila Gurudeva's sanga has more to do with cultivating suddha bhakti and less to do with institutional identification and/or loyalty than you do. Srils Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharja has also explained in chapter 5 of Sri Guru and His Grace:

http://bvml.org/SBRSM/SGaHG.html#5

 

"We need society only to help us. If our affinity to the society keeps us down, then that should be given up, and we must march on. There is the absolute consideration and the relative consideration. When they come into clash, the relative must be given up, and the absolute should be accepted. If my inner voice, my spiritual conscience decides that this sort of company cannot really help me, then I will be under painful necessity to give them up, and to run towards my destination, wherever my spiritual conscience guides me. Any other course will be hypocrisy, and it will check my real progress. If we are sincere in our attempt, then no one in the world can check us or deceive us; we can only deceive ourselves (na hi kalyana-krt kascid durgatim tata gacchati) [bg. 6.40]. We must be true to our own selves, and true to the Supreme Lord. We must be sincere."

 

There may be a certain level of stability and facility in any institution of any acarya during his nara lila. After his maha samadhi,that may change or stay steady if another self effulgent acarya from the same mission succeedes him. It ma change drastically also. However, according to Srila Srirupa Siddhanti maharaja's observations, we find out who was associating with him there for what reasons.

http://bvml.org/SBSST/sna.html

 

 

"(15) Only at the time of Sri Gurudeva’s disappearance can one recognise the actual identity of his disciples. One can then understand who has approached Sri Guru with what intention.

(16) Even after taking shelter of a sad-guru’s lotus feet, some disciples secretly strive to occupy the seat of Sri Gurudeva at the time of his disappearance. Their acceptance of the shelter of Sri Guru’s feet was merely deceit. They are, in fact, hostile and inimical to guru. . . ."

 

 

 

 

I appreciates Srila Gurudeva's humility so much. He reveres Swamiji as a Siksa Guru, despite him having been a sannyasi for much longer than Swamiji

He was only "sannyasa" for 4 or 5 years longer, and if he understood that Srila Swami Maharaja was his siksa guru perhaps you should just go along with that conception. Srila Gurudeva accepted him as good as Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja because he understood then only too well that guru is one and manifests in many different forms. Actually Srila Gurudeva's realization of our other acaryas is so high that we can't begin to approach it with our intellect. The Gaudiya acaryas know each other eternally ,and are all connected to the eternal seva of Sri Sri Radha and Krsna, so we can only guess as to the depth of their connection to one another.

 

 

 

 

and himself being present at the sannyasa ceremony of Swamiji. And despite him giving openly, so much more than Swamiji ever did.

Not only present, but the priest in charge of the whole function. But

here you go again prabhu, making a false distinction between the service your diksa guru and that of a predecessor acarya,and only because of how that seva touches you personally in this one birth that you seem to identify with.

 

Your estimation of "less or more" shows that you have a lot to learn about guru tattva, and lot more to learn about what our guru parampara means. My conclusion is you simply have not listened to many of Srila Swami Maharajs' public lectures. You are most certainly too young in this birth to have had his vapuh association unless you did so in a previous lifeh. How old are you , 24?

 

In his first years in the U.S. Srila Swami Maharaja spoke mostly from the Cc. His classes were as rasika as any one of our other acaryas' ever has spoken including Srila Gurudeva. Methinks you are not paying close enough attention to the explanations of diksa and siksa guru given by Srila Prabhupada in his Cc. purports. Therein he has written:

 

" When by learning from the self-realized spiritual master one actually engages himself in the service of Lord Visnu, functional devotional service begins. The procedures of this devotional service are known as abhidheya, or actions one is dutybound to perform. Our only shelter is the Supreme Lord, and one who teaches how to approach Krsna is the functioning form of the Personality of Godhead. There is no difference between the shelter-giving Supreme Lord and the initiating and instructing spiritual masters. If one foolishly discriminates between them, he commits an offense in the discharge of devotional service."

 

His Divine Grace may just be a name in Gaudiya history to you, but to myself and to his other disciples and to Srila Gurudeva himself he is much more.

 

 

Personally, I don't see why we must compromise our own methods. Yes, we do things differently than Swamiji and ISKCON, so what? Why the need to draw the connection back to Swamiji all the time? If you can't find the connection between what Srila Gurudeva and Swamiji says then it cannot be bonafide? Please. Who cares if Srila Gurudeva teaches and gives few things differently than Swamiji.

Personally I don't see why it should upset or concern you that siksa disciples of Srila Gurudeva,who accepted diksa from other acaryas make such connection to their diksa guru. If associating with Srila Swami Maharaja's followers disturbs your mental quantum then you should avoid us baba. We just live in the past by your estimation. However Srila Gurudeva seems to share the same love and affection for His Divine Grace that we do and so we cling to his point of view. We hear about that conection from him all the time and anyone can read about it here:

 

My Siksa Guru and Priya Bandhu

[This is a collection of recollections and reflections about His Divine GraceSrila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada from one of his earliest siksafollowers and friends, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja. These descriptiveaccounts of his association with Srila Prabhupada span a long period of time, since they first met in 1947.]

http://bvml.org/SBNM/msgapb.htm

It is a very simple matter for me and anyone else to embrace Srila Gurudeva's perception of Srila Swami Maharaja and happily and easily ignore yours.

 

In future if you ever accept any siksa guru after Srila Gurudeva's physical departure you may find yourself doing exactly the same thing, looking for parallels in their vanih. Please indeed!!! Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja has explained this point.this search, nicely in Sri Guru and His Grace:

http://bvml.org/SBRSM/SGaHG.html

 

In chapter Three he says:

" So, the very gist of the guru parampara, the disciplic succession, is siksa, the spiritual teaching, and wherever it is to be traced, there is guru. One who has the transcendental eye, the divine eye, will recognize the guru wherever he appears. One who possesses knowledge of absolute divine love in purity --- he is guru. Otherwise the guru parampara is only a body parampara: a succession of bodies . . . The Gaudiya Math deals with reality, not with the frame. We are trying to understand what is what in the spiritual thought-world. We are not enchanted or captured by the mere form. We are interested in the step by step development in spiritual thought. In his Upadesamrta (10), Srila Rupa Goswami has said, karmibhyah parito hareh priyataya vyaktim yayur jnaninas, tebhyo jnanavimukta bhakti-paramah premaika nisthas tatah. "Out of many materialists one may be a philosopher. Out of many philosophers, one may become liberated and take to devotional service. Out of many devotees, one may attain pure love of Krsna. He is the best of all." We are interested in understanding this gradation: what is the Viraja river, what is the spiritual sky, the planet of Lord Siva, the Vaikuntha world of Visnu, Lord Rama's Ayodhya, and then Krsna in Dwaraka, Mathura, and Vrndavana? We want to know the realistic view of the whole gradation of devotional thought

 

 

I love Srila Gurudeva and care for nothing else. What he does is eternally perfect and supreme, and we as disciples should understand that. So many times devotees say, oh, Swamiji did it THIS way, and in Swamiji's time we did it in THAT way. I appreciate what Gurudeva's giving completely and there's no need for anything else whatsoever.

I suggest you take associaton from devotees who live less in the "past" and more in the "present." I don't bother with godbrothers who are in an iskcon time bubble either. However guru nistha is not limited to one acarya, but to the principle of ekanda guru tattva. Again Srila Sridhar Maharaja has written:

 

"So, the absolute and the relative are two different classes of interest. And we find more importance in the absolute interest. We must be sincere to our own creed. The form is necessary to help me in a general way to maintain my present position. At the same time, my conception of the higher ideal will always goad me to advance, to go forward, and wherever I do, I must follow the greater model, the greater ideal. Spiritual life is progressive, not stagnant. We are in the stage of sadhana, and we want to go ahead, not backwards. The formal position will help me to maintain my present status, and my extraordinary affinity for the ideal will goad me towards the front. The search for Sri Krsna is dynamic and living, so adjustment and readjustment is always going on. And we should also change our present position accordingly, so that we may not have to sacrifice the high ideal for which we have come. Einstein had to leave Germany and go to America for his high ideal of life. And so many similar instances may be found in the world. The ideal is all in all. The highest ideal in a man is his highest jewel. Our most precious gem is our ideal."

Sri Guru and His Grace

In the future, when Srila Gurudeva is not physically manifesting eartlhy pastimes you will have to face what Srila Swami Maharaj's disciples have had to deal with since 1977. Again Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaj's vanih is of great help in this regard. Take note of his words:

 

"What we have received from our spiritual master we understood only in a rough estimation. Now, things have come in such a way that we have to scrutinize ourselves in every position. We have to analyze ourselves. Atma-niksepa, self-analysis has begun. We are under trial. What we have received from our spiritual master, in what way have we received it? Properly, or only showingly? The time has come to purify us, to test whether we are real students, real disciples, or his disciples only in face and confession. What is the position of a real disciple? If we live in a society, what is the depth of our creed? In what attitude have we accepted his teachings? How deep-rooted is it within us? The fire has come to test whether we can stand. Is our acceptance real? Or is it a sham, an imitation? This fire will prove that.

So, this is the real field of sadhana, or practice. Our practice, our advancement needs these difficulties. Otherwise, we may not know what is progress, and we will become hypocrites, and give the adulterated thing to others. So, to purify ourselves, it is necessary that so many disturbances come.

And God has no error. He commands the environment. It is not our responsibility. The responsibility of the environment does not rest upon us. If I am sincere, then I have to adjust myself with this environment and put my faith before Him. "Everyone may leave me, but I shall stand alone!" With this attitude we must march on, whatever the circumstances may be. Then the recognition may come in my favor, that "Yes, under such trying circumstances he is still there." Our superiors will be pleased with us.

The relative and absolute considerations are always coming in clash. The absolute should be accepted and the relative sacrificed. Still the relative is necessary. After graduation from primary school another teacher is accepted for higher education, but that does not mean that the primary teacher is neglected or insulted. For our own interest, whatever we find which is akin to what was given to us by our guru maharaja, whatever we find that will enlighten us further, and whatever will help us to understand more clearly what we heard from our guru maharaja, must be accepted. Is my realization a living thing, or is it dead? Anyone who has come in connection with the infinite cannot but say this: "I am nothing." That should be the salient point.

We have left all social concerns and so many other shackles. For what? For the Absolute Truth And wherever I shall find that, I must bow down my head. And if a great soul shows us, "This is the path to where you will find your thirst quenched. The line is in this zigzag way," we must accept that for our own interest. We are worshipers not of this form, but of substance. Wherever I feel the presence of my Lord in an intense form, I must be attracted to that side. Krsna says, sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. Wherever we shall find Him, we must run in that direction. My interest is with Him. Not that we can challenge, "Why did Krsna appear here, and why is He appearing there?" If a man in a boat is passing through the current and finds himself in danger, then from whatever side help may come, he must run to that side."

from Sri Guru and His Grace:

http://bvml.org/SBRSM/SGaHG.html#5

 

If you are who I think you are then I'm very sorry that I yelled at you in Govardhana. I know only too well that I cannot be around anyone when I am plagued by fatigue, physical illness and near starvation. Forewarned was forearmed.

 

For you as Srila B.V. Narayana Maharaja's diksa disciple it is your present position to be ahaituki, single pointed, in the direction of your gurueva. Doesn't bother me in the least. However you should also be broadminded with regard to all the other Gaudya acaryas, as your spiritual master certainly is. Be on guard because Srila Bhaktivinioda Thakura has observed:

 

"Sectarianism is a natural byproduct of the Absolute Truth. When acaryas first ascertain and instruct the Truth, it is not polluted with sectarianism. But the rules and regulations received through disciplic succession regarding the goal and the method of achieving it are changed in due course of time according to the mentality and locale of the people."

from:

Non-Sectarian Vaisnava-Dharma

[On the nature of sectarianism from the

introduction to the Sri Krsna Samhita]

 

 

For other sadhakas who were fortunate to have also taken the association of Srila Swami Maharaja, their perspepctive and point of view is perhaps something you will not ever appreciate or understand. No matter, no harm and so what? We are all family members in the same group are we not?

 

 

And God Puru, don't flip out, none of this is directed at you.

No to worry prabhu. Since returning to NY I am recovering my health slowly, and I can cook without too much salt and/or red chillies,get adequate rest and worship Thakurji without anyone telling me that I am not qualified to do so. I only have to deal with the contention that comes from famly members, who are never satisfied no matter what I do, and stay focused on my service to Sri Guru and Gauranga. Stay well and please forgive any offenses I may have committed at your feet either wililngly or unwilingly, due to the physical pain of severe edema (swelling) in my 58 year old legs,and the fatigue that 6 months in India had inflicted upon me.

[theist]

What a wonderful, awesome post Puru. Though addressed to one it is valuable for all. I caught a crumb or two and was blessed.

 

ps i have had edema problems in my legs in the last year or two. Dr.s couldn't figure it out. I hit the google button and finally traced down the reason for the excess water. It may seem couterintuitive but the swelling was due to DEHYDRATION! I started drinking much water (a gallon a day) and over a few weeks the problem disappeared and hasn't returned.

 

Yours may have a different cause but I thought you may want to investigate this water angle also.

 

Hare Krsna

[Puru Das, das anudas]

 

 

ps i have had edema problems in my legs in the last year or two. Dr.s couldn't figure it out. I hit the google button and finally traced down the reason for the excess water. It may seem couterintuitive but the swelling was due to DEHYDRATION! I started drinking much water (a gallon a day) and over a few weeks the problem disappeared and hasn't returned.

 

Yours may have a different cause but I thought you may want to investigate this water angle also.

 

Hare Krsna

Thank you for your kindness. I underwent quadruple by pass openheart surgery 17 years ago when I was 41. My left leg is always worse than the right, and this is simply a matter of physics. The surgeons removed the sapphenous vein from my left leg and placed it on the circumflex artery on the back of my heart, which was 90% blocked. Swelling only manifested some years later after the operation, and comes and goes like the tides. Visiting Puri this winter, after kartike, set it off again. Puri is the land of Lord Jagannath and Mahaprabhu's extraordinary pastimes in Gambhira, the sea, Rathayatra, Gundica etc.. and this part of Orissa also looks to be the elephantitis capital of the world is it not?

 

Water is indeed the answer. None of the doctors I saw in India had any brain to prescribe sufficient water pills opr correctly adjust my blood pressure medicaton. One look at me in NY and one of our sanga members who is a physician, changed my medication drastically and I have been improving slowly, slowly ever since I started the regimen he prescribed. The alopathic medicines he has me taking do a very effective job of increasing the amount of water that goes in and out of the material body. The only other aide is to elevate one's legs, and that requires sitting or lying immobile. At night for rest I can do this sometimes, but during the day the modes churn too rapdiily and I am more inclined to be active. Thanks for the tip though. I appreciate your concern.

ys

pda

[theist]

Good luck on that Puru.

[Puru Das, das anudas]

 

Good luck on that Puru.

Thank you.

<center>TEXT 1

 

</center> <center>

isvarah paramah krsnah

sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah

anadir adir govindah

sarva-karana-karanam

</center> <center>SYNONYMS

 

</center> isvarah--the controller; paramah--supreme; krsnah--Lord Krsna; sat--comprising eternal existence; cit--absolute knowledge; ananda--and absolute bliss; vigrahah--whose form; anadih--without beginning; adih--the origin; govindah--Lord Govinda; sarva-karana-karanam--the cause of all causes.

<center>TRANSLATION

 

</center> Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.