First vedic book?

[Guest guest]

Which is considered to be the first (vedic) book?

How old is it; who wrote it.

[suchandra]

 

Which is considered to be the first (vedic) book?

How old is it; who wrote it.

The first living being in this universe is Lord Brahma, who is about 50 years old according calculation on Brahma-loka (15 Billion of our years are two days of Lord Brahma) - he spoke the Brahma-samhita, which at first didnt had to be written down since writing down is not required on Brahma-loka. But there're of course vedic books from other universes which existed before our universe was created - take Bhagavad-gita, this lila of Krishna and Arjuna is eternal.

[Guest guest]

 

Which is considered to be the first (vedic) book?

How old is it; who wrote it.

 

There is no such thing as the first Vedic book. There are 4 Vedas (Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharvana) and these Vedas are not created by anyone, not even God and therefore have no start date. They exist without a beginning and are revealed to seers from time to time.

 

In theory, since Vedic study is dwindling, a few generations from now the entire corpus of the Vedas may vanish from the face of the earth. But the Vedas as sounds will still exist and will be revealed again at some point of time.

 

The academic view is the Vedas were created around 2000 BC by Brahmins in the North west part of India and part of Pakistan. Rig-Veda is the oldest of all.

 

Om

[Puru Das, das anudas]

Sri Brahma-samhita

[Puru Das, das anudas]

The Introduction to Sri Isopanisad:

Sri Isopanishad

“Teachings of the Vedas” [Delivered as a lecture by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupäda on October 6, 1969, at Conway Hall, London, England.

http://bvml.org/books/SI.html

 

answers all of your questions.

[Puru Das, das anudas]

Ladies and gentlemen, today’s subject matter is the teachings of the Vedas. What are the Vedas? The Sanskrit verbal root of veda can be interpreted variously, but the purport is finally one. Veda means knowledge. Any knowledge you accept is veda, for the teachings of the Vedas are the original knowledge.. . .

 

The Vedas are not compilations of human knowledge. Vedic knowledge comes from the spiritual world, from Lord Krishna. Another name for the Vedas is sruti. Sruti refers to that knowledge which is acquired by hearing. It is not experimental knowledge. Sruti is considered to be like a mother. We take so much knowledge from our mother. For example, if you want to know who your father is, who can answer you? Your mother. If the mother says, “Here is your father,” you have to accept it. It is not possible to experiment to find out whether he is your father. Similarly, if you want to know something beyond your experience, beyond your experimental knowledge, beyond the activities of the senses, then you have to accept the Vedas. There is no question of experimenting. It has already been experimented. It is already settled. The version of the mother, for instance, has to be accepted as truth. There is no other way.

 

The Vedas are considered to be the mother, and Brahma is called the grandfather, the forefather, because he was the first to be instructed in the Vedic knowledge. In the beginning the first living creature was Brahma. He received this Vedic knowledge and imparted it to Narada and other disciples and sons, and they also distributed it to their disciples. In this way, the Vedic knowledge comes down by disciplic succession. It is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita that Vedic knowledge is understood in this way. If you make experimental endeavor, you come to the same conclusion, but just to save time you should accept. If you want to know who your father is and if you accept your mother as the authority, then whatever she says can be accepted without argument. There are three kinds of evidence: pratyaksha, anumana and sabda. Pratyaksha means “direct evidence.” Direct evidence is not very good because our senses are not perfect. We are seeing the sun daily, and it appears to us just like a small disc, but it is actually far, far larger than many planets. Of what value is this seeing? Therefore we have to read books; then we can understand about the sun. So direct experience is not perfect. Then there is anumana, inductive knowledge: “It may be like this”—hypothesis. For instance, Darwin’s theory says it may be like this, it may be like that. But that is not science. That is a suggestion, and it is also not perfect. But if you receive the knowledge from the authoritative sources, that is perfect. If you receive a program guide from the radio station authorities, you accept it. You don’t deny it; you don’t have to make an experiment, because it is received from the authoritative sources.

 

Vedic knowledge is called sabda-pramana. Another name is sruti. Sruti means that this knowledge has to be received simply by aural reception. The Vedas instruct that in order to understand transcendental knowledge, we have to hear from the authority. Transcendental knowledge is knowledge from beyond this universe. Within this universe is material knowledge, and beyond this universe is transcendental knowledge. We cannot even go to the end of the universe, so how can we go to the spiritual world? Thus to acquire full knowledge is impossible.

 

There is a spiritual sky. There is another nature, which is beyond manifestation and nonmanifestation. But how will you know that there is a sky where the planets and inhabitants are eternal? All this knowledge is there, but how will you make experiments? It is not possible. Therefore you have to take the assistance of the Vedas. This is called Vedic knowledge. In our Krishna consciousness movement we are accepting knowledge from the highest authority, Krishna. Krishna is accepted as the highest authority by all classes of men. I am speaking first of the two classes of transcendentalists. One class of transcendentalists is called impersonalistic, Mayavadi. They are generally known as Vedantists, led by Sankaracarya. And there is another class of transcendentalists, called Vaishnavas, like Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Vishnu-svami. Both the Sankara-sampradaya and the Vaishnava-sampradaya have accepted Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sankaracarya is supposed to be an impersonalist who preached impersonalism, impersonal Brahman, but it is a fact that he is a covered personalist. In his commentary on the Bhagavad-gita he wrote, “Narayana, the Su-preme Personality of Godhead, is beyond this cosmic manifestation.” And then again he confirmed, “That Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana, is Krishna. He has come as the son of Devaki and Vasudeva.” He particularly mentioned the names of His father and mother. So Krishna is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all transcendentalists. There is no doubt about it. Our source of knowledge in Krishna consciousness is the Bhagavad-gita, which comes directly from Krishna. We have published the Bhagavad-gita As It Is because we accept Krishna as He is speaking, without any interpretation. That is Vedic knowledge. Since the Vedic knowledge is pure, we accept it. Whatever Krishna says, we accept. This is Krishna consciousness. That saves much time. If you accept the right authority, or source of knowledge, then you save much time. For example, there are two systems of knowledge in the material world: inductive and deductive. From deductive, you accept that man is mortal. Your father says man is mortal, your sister says man is mortal, everyone says man is mortal—but you do not experiment. You accept it as a fact that man is mortal. If you want to research to find out whether man is mortal, you have to study each and every man, and you may come to think that there may be some man who is not dying but you have not seen him yet. So in this way your research will never be finished. In Sanskrit this process is called aroha, the ascending process. If you want to attain knowledge by any personal endeavor, by exercising your imperfect senses, you will never come to the right conclusions. That is not possible.

 

There is a statement in the Brahma-samhita: Just ride on the airplane which runs at the speed of mind. Our material airplanes can run two thousand miles per hour, but what is the speed of mind? You are sitting at home, you immediately think of India—say, ten thousand miles away—and at once it is in your home. Your mind has gone there. The mind-speed is so swift. Therefore it is stated, “If you travel at this speed for millions of years, you’ll find that the spiritual sky is unlimited.” It is not possible even to approach it. Therefore, the Vedic injunction is that one must approach—the word “compulsory” is used—a bona fide spiritual master, a guru. And what is the qualification of a spiritual master? He is one who has rightly heard the Vedic message from the right source. And he must practically be firmly established in Brahman. These are the two qualities he must have. Otherwise he is not bona fide

 

. . . Originally there was only one Veda, and there was no necessity of reading it. People were so intelligent and had such sharp memories that by once hearing from the lips of the spiritual master they would understand. They would immediately grasp the whole purport. But five thousand years ago Vyasadeva put the Vedas in writing for the people in this age, Kali-yuga. He knew that eventually the people would be short-lived, their memories would be very poor, and their intelligence would not be very sharp. “Therefore, let me teach this Vedic knowledge in writing.” He divided the Vedas into four: Rig, Sama, Atharva and Yajur. Then he gave the charge of these Vedas to his different disciples. He then thought of the less intelligent class of men—stri, sudra and dvija-bandhu. He considered the woman class and sudra class (worker class) and dvija-bandhu. Dvija-bandhu refers to those who are born in a high family but who are not properly qualified. A man who is born in the family of a brahmana but is not qualified as a brahmana is called dvija-bandhu. For these persons he compiled the Mahabharata, called the history of India, and the eighteen Puranas. These are all part of the Vedic literature: the Puranas, the Mahabharata, the four Vedas and the Upanishads. The Upanishads are part of the Vedas. Then Vyasadeva summarized all Vedic knowledge for scholars and philosophers in what is called the Vedanta-sutra. This is the last word of the Vedas.

 

Vyasadeva personally wrote the Vedanta-sutra under the instructions of Narada, his Guru Maharaja (spiritual master), but still he was not satisfied. That is a long story, described in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Vedavyasa was not very satisfied even after compiling many Puranas and Upanishads, and even after writing the Vedanta-sutra. Then his spiritual master, Narada, instructed him, “You explain the Vedanta-sutra.” Vedanta means “ultimate knowledge,” and the ultimate knowledge is Krishna. Krishna says that throughout all the Vedas one has to understand Him: vedanta-krid veda-vid eva caham. Krishna says, “I am the compiler of the Vedanta-sutra, and I am the knower of the Vedas.” Therefore the ultimate objective is Krishna. That is explained in all the Vaishnava commentaries on Vedanta philosophy. We Gaudiya Vaishnavas have our commentary on Vedanta philosophy, called Govinda-bhashya, by Baladeva Vidyabhushana. Similarly, Ramanujacarya has a commentary, and Madhvacarya has one. The version of Sankaracarya is not the only commentary. There are many Vedanta commentaries, but because the Vaishnavas did not present the first Vedanta commentary, people are under the wrong impression that Sankaracarya’s is the only Vedanta commentary. Besides that, Vyasadeva himself wrote the perfect Vedanta commentary, Srimad-Bhagavatam. Srimad-Bhagavatam begins with the first words of the Vedanta-sutra: janmady asya yatah [sB 1.1.1]. And that janmady asya yatah is fully explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Vedanta-sutra simply hints at what is Brahman, the Absolute Truth: “The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates.” This is a summary, but it is explained in detail in Srimad-Bhagavatam. If everything is emanating from the Absolute Truth, then what is the nature of the Absolute Truth? That is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Absolute Truth must be consciousness. He is self-effulgent (sva-rat). We develop our consciousness and knowledge by receiving knowledge from others, but for Him it is said that He is self-effulgent. The whole summary of Vedic knowledge is the Vedanta-sutra, and the Vedanta-sutra is explained by the writer himself in Srimad-Bhagavatam. We finally request those who are actually after Vedic knowledge to try to understand the explanation of all Vedic knowledge from Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad-gita.

[Guest guest]

[guote]The chief gods of the Rigveda are Indra, a heroic god who is praised for having slain his enemy Vrtra, Agni, the sacrificial fire, and Soma, the sacred potion, or the plant it is made from. Other prominent gods are Mitra-Varuna and Ushas (the dawn). Also invoked are Savitar, Vishnu, Rudra, Pushan, Brihaspati, Brahmanaspati, as well as deified natural phenomena such as Dyaus Pita (the sky), Prithivi (the earth), Surya (the sun), Vayu (the wind), Apas (the waters), Parjanya (the rain), Vac (the word), many rivers (notably the Sapta Sindhu, and the Sarasvati River). Groups of deities are the Ashvins, the Maruts, the Adityas, the Rbhus, the Vishvadevas (the all-gods). It contains various further minor gods, persons, concepts, phenomena and items, and fragmentary references to possible historical events, notably the struggle between the early Vedic people (known as Vedic Aryans, a subgroup of the Indo-Aryans) and their enemies, the Dasa.

[Guest guest]

quote The Vedas were mainly compiled by Vyasa Krishna Dwaipayana

 

Is this author the same one that wrote Srimad-Bhagavatam?

[muralidhar_das]

Yes and no.

 

 

 

 

In the introduction to Sri Krishna Samhita, Thakura Bhaktivinoda wrote:

 

Shrimad Bhagavatam has no birth because it is eternal, without beginning or end. Nevertheless it is extremely desirable to ascertain when, where, and by whom this literature was manifested according to modern opinion. Modern scholars have concluded that Vyasadeva wrote Shrimad Bhagavatam on the bank of the Sarasvati River under the instructions of Narada Muni, the knower of the truth. Being dissatisfied after writing the scriptures, Vyasadeva presented the Shrimad Bhagavatam after visualizing the Absolute Truth through samadhi. He presented Shrimad Bhagavatam for the benefit of third-class people, who are unable to understand the deep meaning of a subject. Those great personalities who wrote the scriptures were all known as Vyasas, and they were all respected by people in general. In this regard, the title Vyasa indicates all Vyasas, beginning from Vedavyasa up to the Vyasa who wrote Shrimad Bhagavatam. When he was unable to ascertain the Absolute Truth after studying all the scriptures, then Vyasadeva, who is expert in the spiritual science, withdrew his mind and speech from those literatures, realized the Truth through samadhi, and then wrote the Shrimad Bhagavatam. The modern scholars also say that Shrimad Bhagavatam appeared in Dravida-desha (South India) about 1,000 years ago. The living entity has a natural inclination for being attached to his native place. Therefore even great personalities have this inclination to some extent. Due to the glorification found in the Shrimad Bhagavatam of Dravida-desha, which is not very ancient, it appears that Vyasadeva was a native of that place. If the glories of Dravida-desha were mentioned in other scriptures, then we would have no right to give this conclusion. Our conclusion is further confirmed by the mention of a very recent holy place in the Shrimad Bhagavatam. It is stated in the Venkata-mahatmya, which is popular in the South, that Venkata-tirtha was established when Lakshmidevi went to Kolapura from Chola. Kolapura is situated to the south of Satara. The Chalukya kings defeated the Cholas in the eight century and established a large kingdom in that province. Therefore Lakshmi went to Kolapura and Venkata was established at that time. For this reason, they do not hesitate to accept that Shrimad Bhagavatam was written in the ninth century. Shathakopa, Yamunacarya, and Ramanujacarya vigorously preached Vaishnavism in the tenth century. They were also from Dravida-desha. They all highly respected Shrimad Bhagavatam, so we cannot accept that Shrimad Bhagavatam was written after the ninth century. Furthermore, when Shridhara Svami wrote his commentary on the Shrimad Bhagavatam in the eleventh century, there were already a few commentaries like Hanumad-bhashya available. So there is no need to further consider this matter. I have not found a means of determining the family name of the author of Shrimad Bhagavatam. Whoever he may be, we are grateful, and with awe and reverence we accept that great personality, Vyasadeva, as the spiritual master of the swanlike people.

 

 

[arun momia]

All these holy scriptures are not bound by time. they get revealed to a true devotee when he has implicit faith in both lord and spiritual master.

it is clearly mentioned in the Svetasvatra Upanisad (6.23)

 

yasya deve pra bhaktir,

yatha deve tatha gurau,

tasyita kathita hai arthah,

parkasante mahatmanah.

 

i wonder why people are feared of extinction of these scripyures.

they endured for thousands of years, it was just because of the Supreme wish, He wants people to get benifit from them and reach to Him.when a yogi sits in trance and attunes himself to Supreme will, rest all appears as maya to him.All these Vedas get automatically revealed to him.This is the reason why in Bhagwad Gita Lord Krishna stressed more on yoga practices.

[shvu]

 

source-wiki

 

can someone "enlighten" me?

where is Krsna in the rig veda?

 

shanti

In your post! Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu who is mentioned in your description of the Rig-veda.

 

Cheers

[shvu]

 

There is no such thing as the first Vedic book. There are 4 Vedas (Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharvana) and these Vedas are not created by anyone, not even God and therefore have no start date. They exist without a beginning and are revealed to seers from time to time.

From time to time? If I tell people a few mantras were revealed to me last night after dinner, who will accept that?

 

It is generally accepted mantras will not be revealed anymore. So no one is going to believe any new revelations.

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

 

There is no such thing as the first Vedic book. There are 4 Vedas (Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharvana) and these Vedas are not created by anyone, not even God and therefore have no start date. They exist without a beginning and are revealed to seers from time to time.

 

 

I don't understand when you say the Vedas are not created by anyone, not even God. Some Hindus say they are the words of God and were 'heard' by Rishis. But since they are mantras why would God be chanting mantras to itself?

To me they look like prayers to the devas. A text like the Gita, looks more like 'words of God'.

[muralidhar_das]

 

If I tell people a few mantras were revealed to me last night after dinner, who will accept that?

 

It is generally accepted mantras will not be revealed anymore. So no one is going to believe any new revelations.

 

Cheers

 

"Babies come equipped with basic speech perception capacities, as if it were hardwired"

- Peter Jusczyk, (John Hopkins medical research fellow).

 

Some knowledge we humans possess is learned through experience whereas other knowledge is innate. The knowledge that "I exist" is innate knowledge.

 

Human beings have an innate ability to understand language. Building upon the innate knowledge each newborn infant possesses, humans aquire additional information throughout their lifetime and extend the boundaries of their understanding. It has been demonstrated in clinical research that infants who are born in stimulating environments "exercise their brain" more and develop larger brains.

 

"Babies have a biological need to learn. Any stimulation through his special senses (hearing, sight, taste, smell and touch) provided during fetal life and preschool years has profound effect on growth and maturation of brain. It has been shown that stimulation program can promote faster growth, improve coordination of muscular movements, increase span of concentration and raise baby’s IQ by as much as 15 points."

http://www.indianpediatrics.net/mar2003/mar-213-220.htm

 

A newborn infant's brain is pre-wired to pay attention to all the language sounds it hears. The newborn infant can identify different types of messages in the sounds spoken to it by other humans. It is now known that an infant has the innate ability to recognize friendly and threatening faces it sees, as well as sounds.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/01/050104114623.htm

 

Evidence exists to suggest that all newborn babies have an innate understanding that "Ma" exists.

 

<table> <tbody> <tr> <td>Swahili </td> <td>mama </td> <td>baba </td></tr> <tr> <td>Kikuyu (east Africa) </td> <td>nana </td> <td>baba </td></tr> <tr> <td>Xhosa (South Africa) </td> <td>-mama </td> <td>-tata </td></tr> <tr> <td>Tagalog (Philippines) </td> <td>nanay </td> <td>tatay </td></tr> <tr> <td>Malay </td> <td>emak </td> <td>bapa </td></tr> <tr> <td>Romanian </td> <td>mama </td> <td>tata </td></tr> <tr> <td>Welsh </td> <td>mam </td> <td>tad </td></tr> <tr> <td>Urdu </td> <td>mang </td> <td>bap </td></tr> <tr> <td>Turkish </td> <td>ana, anne </td> <td>baba </td></tr> <tr> <td>Pipil (El Salvador) </td> <td>naan </td> <td>tatah </td></tr> <tr> <td>Kobon (New Guinea) </td> <td>amy </td> <td>bap </td></tr> <tr> <td>Basque </td> <td>ama </td> <td>aita </td></tr> <tr> <td>Hungarian </td> <td>anya </td> <td>apa </td></tr> <tr> <td>Dakota (USA) </td> <td>ena </td> <td>ate </td></tr> <tr> <td>Nahuatl (Mexico) </td> <td>naan </td> <td>ta’ </td></tr> <tr> <td>Luo (Kenya) </td> <td>mama </td> <td>baba </td></tr> <tr> <td>Apalai (Amazon) </td> <td>aya </td> <td>papa </td></tr> <tr> <td>Chechen (Caucasus) </td><td>naana </td> <td>daa </td></tr> <tr> <td>Cree (Canada) </td> <td>-mama </td> <td>-papa </td></tr> <tr> <td>Quechua (Ecuador) </td> <td>mama </td> <td>tayta </td></tr> <tr> <td>Mandarin Chinese </td> <td>mama </td> <td>baba </td></tr> <tr></tr></tbody> </table>

In cultures all around the world babies have an innate tendency to repeat particular easy-to-say sounds such as the sound "Ma". The sound "Ma" was explored by the rishis, long ago; and from this root sound "Ma" they entered into the spirit of "Ma" and saw the entity "Ma" that this sound signifies. This signifier "ma" re-appears in the minds of the newborn generations of humankind; this signifier "Ma" can be said to be a gestalt or a pre-existing idea within the collective understanding of humankind.

 

Taking this one step further, we may say the rishis of the past were able to intuitively understand knowldege that all people are born with but few people have realized.

 

The rishis could understand the intrinsic meaning of spoken sounds, beginning with the sound OM.

 

From realization of OM comes realization of the entire Veda, and from the Veda comes the Bhagavata. In this way, the Bhagavata becomes known in this world. The Bhagavata is a revelation coming from the Universal Mind.

[shvu]

 

I don't understand when you say the Vedas are not created by anyone, not even God. Some Hindus say they are the words of God and were 'heard' by Rishis. But since they are mantras why would God be chanting mantras to itself?

To me they look like prayers to the devas. A text like the Gita, looks more like 'words of God'.

The traditional position is Vedas are eternal. Eternal is not just without an end; it is without beginning too. That is why they are not created. The Mimaamsa school goes into details on establishing "unauthoredness" which is why these words (Vedas) hold value. This Mimaamsa position is borrowed in full by the schools of Vedanta.

 

From a modern perspective, none of this holds good. It is obvious that they were authored by humans over several generations and are prayers to now defunct Gods like Indra, et al. Philology, archaeology,etc., have helped narrow down and assign a reasonable period of time for the creation of the Vedas.

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

If the ancient Vedic system for the transfer of knowledge was complete, why would Lord Krsna say in the Gita that "The original knowledge now appears to be lost"? (BG 4.2)

 

"This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost."

 

The Vedas as circulated 5000 years ago did not properly present the original knowledge on yoga as imparted by Krsna to Lord Brahma and Vivasvan. They contained a tremendous amount of knowledge, but several key concepts became obscured with the passage of time.

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami commented several centuries ago that most of the Vedic writings have been lost from circulation here on earth due to the influence of time. Today the problem is even worse, as many more old manuscripts that Jiva Goswami quoted in his works are no longer available.

 

So to your question, what was the first BOOK of Vedic knowledge, the answer is quite complicated. In the begining of material time, Lord Vishnu communicated the original knowledge to Brahma, the creator of this world, in just a few words - that was the original Veda. With the passage of time that knowledge was expanded into millions of verses.

[Guest guest]

 

The Vedic pantheon is considered to consist of thirty-three different gods, which are placed, in groups of eleven, into one of the three different categories: atmospheric, terrestrial, or celestial, each of which has its own area of responsibility. But just because a god is in one category does not mean that it is completely different from a god from another category; for sometimes a god from one category will have some of the same qualities of a god from another category.

 

To better explain this, a brief description of three different gods, each from a different category, follows. The gods being discussed, and their categories, are: 1) Indra, atmospheric; 2) Agni, terrestrial; and 3) Varuna, celestial.

 

 

Indra is considered as one of the favorite Vedic god. This is shown through the number of Vedic hymns that deal with him. With 250 Vedic hymns, he has more hymns that celebrate him than any other Vedic god. He is the most powerful, as well as the highest god in the atmospheric hierarchy; he is also one of the most powerful of the Vedic gods, with Varuna as his only real rival.

source- www

 

 

Actually i found in Guinness Encyclopedia that Vedic Gods are (main):

- Indra

- Varuna

- Agni

- Surja

 

 

Question:

Explanation, please, why were original Rig-vedic Gods "changed to others" like Brahma, Vishnu (Krishna), Shiva, Ganesh, Hanuman ?

I guess this means different schools- can you name main ones please? Starting from original.

 

 

Please dont comment your post from a perspective of one "school" but rather as much as objectively as you can. Keep it simple.

Really looking forward to hear your comments.

 

Regards, M.

[Shakti-Fan]

The wise continuously see the highest form of Visnu. This supreme form, perceived with spiritual eyes, is Krsna. (Rg Veda 1.22.23)

 

 

apasyam gopam anipadyamana ma ca para ca pathibhis carantam

sa sadhricih sa visucir vasana avatirvati bhuvanesv antah

 

I saw a cowherd. He never falls from his position; sometimes he is near, and some times far, wandering on various paths. He is a friend, decorated with a variety of clothes. He comes again and again to the material world. (Rg Veda 1.22.164 sukta 31)

Found on: http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/tattvas1.htm

[Guest guest]

 

Question:

Explanation, please, why were original Rig-vedic Gods "changed to others" like Brahma, Vishnu (Krishna), Shiva, Ganesh, Hanuman?

 

 

There are several factors at play here.

 

1. The above listed "changed into others" concept is merely a theory, not a fact, used to explain the Vedas through a materialistic evolutionary approach, as in:

 

cave man man gets burned by the fire as well as burned by it, so he worships fire and invents a fire god

 

2. You need to understand what the Vedic hymns really are. Based on that understanding you attempt to explain them.

 

3. The passage of time does indeed affect what we see today as the Vedas, thus making reconstruction of the original and true Vedic knowledge quite challenging.

[Guest guest]

Should be:

 

cave man man gets burned by the fire as well as WARMED by it, so he worships fire and invents a fire god

[Guest guest]

 

The wise continuously see the highest form of Visnu. This supreme form, perceived with spiritual eyes, is Krsna. (Rg Veda 1.22.23)

 

I am not sure what is the actual Rig Vedic source for these quotes. They do not cross reference with standard Rig Vedic translations. See here for example: hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/rigintro

[Guest guest]

 

I am not sure what is the actual Rig Vedic source for these quotes. They do not cross reference with standard Rig Vedic translations. See here for example: hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/rigintro

 

That is a bogus quote from a Hare Krishna web site. 1.22 is a hymn on Ashwini.

 

Krishna and Rama do not find mention in the Vedas. Vasudeva comes from Panchrataras, Vishnu comes from the Vedas and in Puranas Krishna is identified with Vasudeva and Vishnu.

 

Om

[Guest guest]

Rig Veda 1.22 hymn to Asvins does indeed contain nice direct references To Lord Vishnu (end section), but the above referenced verse is not there (1.22.23)

[muralidhar_das]

विज्ञानसारथिर्यस्तु मनः प्रग्रहवान्नरः ।

सोऽध्वनः पारमाप्नोति तद्विष्णोः परमं पदम् ॥ ९ ॥

9 A man who has discrimination for his charioteer, who holds the reins of the mind firmly, reaches the end of the road. He arrives at last at the supreme goal (parama padam), the place of Vishnu.

COMMENTARY

The abode of Vishnu is the highest state of existence.

This verse echoes the following verse of the Rg Veda, the oldest scripture of the Aryan civilization of ancient <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region>.

om tad vishnu paramam padam sada pashyanti surayah diviva caksuratatam, tad vipraso vipanyavo jagrivamsah samindhate visnor yat paramam padam om

(Rg Veda Samhita, Mandala 1, verse 22.20)

Translation: “The awakened man (vipra) is always conscious of Lord Vishnu's feet, which he sees in his meditation. He sees the Lord's feet over his head like the sun in the sky (paramam padam). The devotee is always conscious of that ideal. The reality of Sri Vishnu is conspicuous and very clear to him (diviva caksur atatam). The reality of Vishnu is as clear and real as the sun in the sky (sada pasyanti surayah). ”

We should all try to live and move in that consciousness. We are all children of that spiritual, conscious realm, the glowing state of existence where Sri Vishnu is residing. But through our misfortune we have all fallen from the light into this world of rebirth, death and karma.

Man is not merely an animal wandering over the earth, mountains and jungles. An Aryan, a real man, is a man who has no desire to live as the animals are living: eating, sleeping, procreating and fighting. A real man feels detached from lust, anger and animalistic behavior. The enlightened sage is situated in the divine consciousness of Sri Vishnu. In the hymns of the sages who wrote the ancient literature of the Rg Veda, the sages addressed their Lord, the Absolute Being, by the name "Sri Vishnu". Those Aryans who founded the ancient civilization of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> were always constantly meditating on the Highest Entity, Brahman, Who they called “Vishnu”. Lord Vishnu is within the ocean of eternity and He is pervading everywhere and every thing. The holy feet of Vishnu, His feet, His lowest part, He is showing to us. The sages (rishis) of the past age were always conscious of this fact. This was the real basis of their life.

इन्द्रियेभ्यः परा ह्यर्था अर्थेभ्यश्च परं मनः ।

मनसस्तु परा बुद्धिर्बुद्धेरात्मा महान्परः ॥ १० ॥

 

10 Beyond the senses are the objects the senses know and experience. Beyond these objects is the mind that comprehends them. Beyond the mind is the faculty of intellect and knowledge. Beyond the intellect is the individual self (jiva atma).

महतः परमव्यक्तमव्यक्तात्पुरुषः परः ।

पुरुषान्न परं किंचित्सा काष्ठा सा परा गतिः ॥ ११ ॥

11 Beyond the individual jiva self there is Maya (the Unmanifest, the Mahat Tattva). Maya is superior to the jiva soul in that Maya has the power to overwhelm and entangle a jiva soul in the complexities of life within nature. But beyond Maya is the eternal Person known as the Purusha (Vishnu), the Higher Self. Beyond the Purusha there is nothing higher. He is the culmination. He is the highest goal of the journey.

COMMENTARY

The word “Vishnu” contains the Sanskrit root sound “visl” meaning “to pervade”. Vishnu is, therefore, the One who is all-pervading. Many other attributes of Vishnu are mentioned in hymns of the Rg Veda. He is said to be upholding the sky and earth (7.99.3). He maintains heaven (7.99.2). His form is extensive (7.99.1). His body is big (7.99.4). He created the sun, dawn and fire (7.99.4). He has a blissful spouse named Lakshmi (1.156.2). He comes to us when His Name is invoked (1.155.6). The Rg Paristha furthermore tells us that Vishnu bears a mace, discus and conch, and that emancipation (mukti) and the supreme goal of life (parama-padam) exist in the plane of existence of Vishnu (Rg Paristha 20.6).

In the Maitrayani-samhita of the Krishna Yajurveda there is a gayatri psalm with meditation on Vishnu, who is implored to bestow enlightenment. This gayatri mantra runs as follows: om tad keshavaya vidmahe narayanaya dhimahi tanno vishnu prachodayat. In this gayatri hymn the other names of Vishnu “Keshava” and “Narayana” are invoked. Keshava is a name of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>.

एष सर्वेषु भूतेषु गूढोऽऽत्मा न प्रकाशते ।

दृश्यते त्वग्र्यया बुद्ध्या सूक्ष्मया सूक्ष्मदर्शिभिः ॥ १२ ॥

12 That Supreme Self, hidden in all beings, does not reveal Himself to everyone. But He is seen as subtle Truth by the seers through their one-pointed meditation and searching intellect.

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From Kathopanishad (SCSMath)

[Guest guest]

 

Quote:

The Vedic pantheon is considered to consist of thirty-three different gods, which are placed, in groups of eleven, into one of the three different categories: atmospheric, terrestrial, or celestial, each of which has its own area of responsibility. But just because a god is in one category does not mean that it is completely different from a god from another category; for sometimes a god from one category will have some of the same qualities of a god from another category.

 

To better explain this, a brief description of three different gods, each from a different category, follows. The gods being discussed, and their categories, are: 1) Indra, atmospheric; 2) Agni, terrestrial; and 3) Varuna, celestial.

 

Quote:

Indra is considered as one of the favorite Vedic god. This is shown through the number of Vedic hymns that deal with him. With 250 Vedic hymns, he has more hymns that celebrate him than any other Vedic god. He is the most powerful, as well as the highest god in the atmospheric hierarchy; he is also one of the most powerful of the Vedic gods, with Varuna as his only real rival.

source- www

 

 

Actually i found in Guinness Encyclopedia that Vedic Gods are (main):

- Indra

- Varuna

- Agni

- Surja

 

 

Question:

Explanation, please, why were original Rig-vedic Gods "changed to others" like Brahma, Vishnu (Krishna), Shiva, Ganesh, Hanuman ?

I guess this means different schools- can you name main ones please? Starting from original.

 

 

Please dont comment your post from a perspective of one "school" but rather as much as objectively as you can. Keep it simple.

Really looking forward to hear your comments.

 

Regards, M.

sorry, but i have to copy my own post..

 

 

 

Something is missing here (for me obvious), maybe someone could explain ??

 

 

 

It seem there are different traditions-

One for example is Rig-vedic and Srimad-Bhagavatam (Vaishnava?) is another.

I cant see Srimad-Bhagavatam in a same tradition as Rig-veda, but rather as one "school" out of it- am i right? If it is so, please tell me the right names for each.

 

 

Link1 Vedic Gods: .hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/vedicgods.asp

(if there are 33, there are 2 missing in this list..?)

 

Link2 about Vishnu is Rigveda:

.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/vedicgods.asp#vishnu

 

 

The Vishnu of the Rigvedic times, is a minor god

just first sentence, hope you understand my question now.

 

 

 

Looking forward to hear your comments, regards M.