The Rtvik Conception of Guru Parampara

[mahak]

Haribol, again. Im not trying to agitate, Im just presenting another perspective here, like I said, not to shove down your or anyone else's

throat. Im not anyones enemy, and not connected to any group. Im not debating these issues here, just presenting my view. If you wish to glean the important stuff Im saying during the course of this observation, then lets discuss that.

 

Please consider a point I have made many times about so-called disciples "negotiating" with their spiritual master. The position (by the rtvik) is that Srila Prabhupada bought off on these peoples plans via the J9 memo and his signature affixed. So, the implication here is that Srila Prabhupada was there as mediator, both ideas far away from disciple/guru relationship. There are other implications, such as disciples of his sent away during the last months, others not alerted to his desire to have us ALL come for his darsana. So, it is mortifying that he passed without his invited disciples there to take part in his transcendental disappearance, but had a cadre of ambitious and proven discredits badgering him about his properties.

 

July 9 is not for his 5000+ disciples. It is a dry document, a

declaration from a very minor faction, to, at most, 100 devotees (GBC and TPs), all key appointees of this inner circle (which I have dubbed the infamous eleven). The writer and recipients of the July 9, 1977 memo are well defined, and any imagined opponant of mine on this issue must stipulate to this prima facie fact. If a debate were ever to take place concerning J9, facts must be stipulated to without reservation. These facts include:

 

1. There is nothing in J9 remotely connected to Srila Prabhupadas disappearance.

 

2. The document is from Tamal, to a very few disciples, GBC and TPs.

 

3. Tamal tells the TPs to send the names of the initiated disciples to Srila Prabhupada for inclusion in his initiated disciples book. (Please, dont get "murti" on me, because his Murti is in my home, no need to send anything to him there, his Murti is also in all properties owned by him, no need to send them there either.)

 

Many complain about me just spouting off without giving reference, but I dont. Srila Prabhupadas words are given for your consideration, in all my writings. Other things can be stipulated by all parties without elaborate quotes. If someone wants to get to the bottom of this debate, a recording of his comments on October 5, 1977, (five weeks prior to his departure) should be analyzed. He states that he has given them everything they have asked for, and pleads that they dont destroy his movement qwith the rope he has given them by their demand. Rtviks wont tackle this idea, but it is so valid, it is the gist of his teachings. He teaches that both Pariksit and sukadeva were bonafide, and in ONLY in such a reciprocal environment can absolute truth be passed on. So in all these discussions that the rtviks love, there is a bonafide acarya speaking to his prison guards, ambitious materialists whose desire was to control his properties, control his disciples. If I should say this arrangement NULLIFIES any idea of bonafidelity (My word, cool, eh?) , how is the rtvik to prove me wrong. Srila Prabhupada teaches that if the man is potent, yet the wife is infertile, pregnancy does not take place.

 

The last point for today addresses something discussed previously, why would TKG need J9, which does not appoint him acarya. The answer is simple, this document favors a select cabal of disciples over others. This document places people in control of disciple advancement in Krsna Consciousness. It is a carte blanche for all the things that have happened, from the zonal scam up to the present mundane voting of kanistha adhikaris to be initiating spiritual masters. If you doubt this, then why when the document (July 9) became public, when tamal made his really lame Pyramid House admissions, why was there no throwing these fools out. Because they have everything they have asked for, spoiled everything. Kanistha adhikaris have no business asking the Acarya for anything, any more than a drunk should be able to ask for another drink.

 

TBC, mahaksadasa

[mahak]

<tt>This report is not the nectar for which you are anxious for. Log out, and go open any of his original and approved books. If you are still here, read on.

 

Okay, what do I see 30+ years after the fact? What is the

relationship of Srila Prabhupada to the foundation that bears his acronym and operates in his name?

 

What I see from here in exile, in the outback, is embarassment. I was just interviewed in my other life, and I honored Srila

Prabhupada's influence, but I had to fully deny complicity with his foundation. I know how devout Catholics feel about their pedophile priests. I know the disgust they feel, the betrayal at the hands of their guru Sylvester as he watched the worshipper of Sol Invictus, Constantine, burn Vaisnavism at the stake of religiosity. I am embarassed and refuse to defend the departure from the vani of Srila Prabhupada.

 

This tells me something, and burns my heart. Srila Prabhupada is separate from the society that bears his name. To infer even slight connection of the two is to accuse my Guru Maharaja of complicity in the horrors. The fraud of SCAMkirtana, the white slavery, the arms, drugs and other black marketeering, the violent robberies, the open death threats against peer disciples, and all these items just mentioned were occurring during his physical presence. Not to mention the abhorrant treatment of his daughters and their children.

 

I have read wretched stories on the interenet blaming Srila

Prabhupada for all the horrors. I was very pleased that the

book, "Monkey on a Stick", did not. But these reporters missed a great deal as well, for those of us who bore witness. I do NOT blindly accept the assassination theory, and I was on the internet version of IVC that investigated these claims. However, I do fully accept that he was held against his will, tended by so-called disciples who were more-than-willing to settle for vani with NO MORE VAPU. Serious human rights violations were imposed against him by so-called caregivers. How many of the 4700 other disciples who were invited to Vrndavan in the fall of 1977 were more than ready and willing to care for him properly? How many among the 4700 disciples

turned away by criminals engaged in fraud, preventing even simple communication from taking place between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples, how many of these great souls were able to care for him as Iswara Puri took care of Srila Madhavendra Puri. On one of his early disciple's farm, we were preparing for him to come stay there, and he expressed desire to come.

 

But he was held against his will. I last saw him in 1976, and he did not reject me for no longer being with his society. He sent Sriman Brahmananda Swami to convey his best wishes. I then went to where he was staying, and witnessed his condition. Surrounded by armed and snarling gundas with dandas, I was physically prevented from giving him his garland, so as the limo pulled away, I hooked it on the rear antenna. A commotion ensued inside the darkened vehicle, and it screeched to a halt. The door opened, and one of these gundas retrieved the garland, giving me the look of murder.

 

Later that evening, at the temple, Kirtanananda gave an introductory address, telling all how much he loved Srila Prabhupada, in his smirky, condescending style. About 100 disciples walked out en masse. When Srila Prabhupada finally came to the room, he was only wearing one garland, the one an outsider gave him. A few days later, he gathered many disciples who were no longer with ISKCON, told his secretaries to go away, and spoke to us, telling us that the duty of his disciple is to avoid bad association that will lead us to hell. He clearly stated that ISKCON may very well go to hell, but it was the DUTY of his disciple to never follow them there.

 

TBC mahaksadasa

</tt>

[Guest guest]

Well then it depends on the temple. We can't make a blanket statement that they'll be banned.

 

My view is that they should be respectfully asked to leave, if they're disrupting or preaching their ritvik philosophy to anyone in the congregation.

 

 

That is simply not true. I personally know that a friend of mine was asked to leave a major Iskcon Temple with his wife and children simply for 'being a Ritvik', no BTP distribution or anything.

 

What you are speaking is untrue and has no bearing reality, plain and simple.

[Guest guest]

And Mahadyuti prabhu ... pray tell me why, of all the countless festivals in the world ... your ilk chooses to go to the festivals organized by ISKCON to distribute BTP. And then complain about the abuse you receive!

 

Like the common man on the street gives a damn who the GBC is or what the internal problems in ISKCON are. Write some philosophy in your BTP, rather than some meaningless tripe ... and you'll find many takers for it.

 

 

Just see that madness. This guest does not mention the fact that IRM devotees where verbally and physically abused by a so called Guru for simply distributing BTP magazine along with a crazed violent 'devotee' who proceeded to steal magazines and tear them apart.

 

This crazed, dysfunctional, brainwashed cultish behaviour is totally acceptable to our guest friend, but accuses IRM for distaseful behaviour for simply distributing a magazine with a different point of view.

 

Therefore he is saying that;

 

1. Its ok to beat and abuse someone for distributing literature that you dont agree with.

 

2. Its the fault of those who distribute a magazine with an opossing point of view when they are beaten and abused.

 

This is the logic of a madman. According to this crazy logic, if a sankirtana devotee was assulted on the street it would be the fault of the sankirtana devotee for going to a place where materialist congregates and it would be his fault for going there and causing a disturbance.

 

Absolute lunacy.

[Guest guest]

 

And Mahadyuti prabhu ... pray tell me why, of all the countless festivals in the world ... your ilk chooses to go to the festivals organized by ISKCON to distribute BTP. And then complain about the abuse you receive!

 

Like the common man on the street gives a damn who the GBC is or what the internal problems in ISKCON are. Write some philosophy in your BTP, rather than some meaningless tripe ... and you'll find many takers for it.

 

More insanity. You say that of ALL the festivals to distribute the truth, the ritviks choose an *ISKCON* festival; and then you say that "the common man on the street" doesn't "give a damn" about ISKCON. That's why the truth is distributed at *ISKCON* festivals, and not to the "common man on the street"! You really need to THINK before you spout.

 

Anyone who READS BTP will find much philosophy in it. And indeed, there ARE many takers, as anyone who READS the letters pages will know. But you first actually have to READ BTP.

 

So the lesson today is: First THINK and READ. It's not that hard if you try...

[Guest guest]

Bhakta Tom prabhu ... PAMHO.

 

Yes, I have read BTP. I get copies mailed to my home! (needles to say, against my wish). Most pages of the magazine are just filled with 'post mortems' of comments made by some ISKCON devotees. I barely found any phlosophy there and so stopped reading it.

 

In fact, I was a ritvik sympathizer myself until some of the jokers started losing the plot and focussed exclusively on blaspheming all & sundry, instead of promoting the philosophy of KC.

 

 

More insanity. You say that of ALL the festivals to distribute the truth, the ritviks choose an *ISKCON* festival; and then you say that "the common man on the street" doesn't "give a damn" about ISKCON. That's why the truth is distributed at *ISKCON* festivals, and not to the "common man on the street"! You really need to THINK before you spout.

 

Anyone who READS BTP will find much philosophy in it. And indeed, there ARE many takers, as anyone who READS the letters pages will know. But you first actually have to READ BTP.

 

So the lesson today is: First THINK and READ. It's not that hard if you try...

[Guest guest]

 

Bhakta Tom prabhu ... PAMHO.

 

Yes, I have read BTP. I get copies mailed to my home! (needles to say, against my wish). Most pages of the magazine are just filled with 'post mortems' of comments made by some ISKCON devotees. I barely found any phlosophy there and so stopped reading it.

 

In fact, I was a ritvik sympathizer myself until some of the jokers started losing the plot and focussed exclusively on blaspheming all & sundry, instead of promoting the philosophy of KC.

 

Dear Prabhu

 

PAMHO AGTSP.

 

It is NOT blasphemy to speak the truth. This "blasphemy" argument is just a smokescreen used by those who don't want to see their cheating exposed.

 

In any case, how can it be blasphemous for IRM to quote the GBC? If one guru has called another "sick", "obsessed", "duplicitous" and a "liar", how is that *IRM's* blasphemy?! Simply quoting the GBC's own words proves the IRM's case that these are not bona fide gurus!

 

So don't go shooting the messenger. Take your complaint to the guru concerned.

 

BHAGAVAD-GITA, 10:4-5, PURPORT:

 

"Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are, for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straightforward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth."