Supreme Master Ching Hai and the Hare Krishnas

[Vrindavan]

Spiritual lecture by Supreme Master Ching Hai in West Virginia, USA on Feb 17 1991.

 

Supreme Master Ching Hai and the Hare Krishnas 1

 

Supreme Master Ching Hai and the Hare Krishnas 1a

 

Supreme Master Ching Hai and the Hare Krishnas 1b

 

Supreme Master Ching Hai and the Hare Krishnas 2

 

Supreme Master Ching Hai and the Hare Krishnas 3

 

 

Please watch these videos and comment.

[theist]

I have come across Ching Hai before on ocassion either on some free access TV or on the radio. I can help but be drawn to her. It is obvious that she is speaking from some high level of realization. Unfortunately the first tape stopped just as some devotee asked the most important question about the Supreme Personality and the answer from Ching Hai is not heard. Very frustrating for me as I am always so sceptical as to wonder if some speaker is a covered Mayavadi speaking impersonalism cloaked in devotional language. The bhakti as a path to merging syndrom. Perhaps my scepticism will be put to rest on viewing the other videos.

 

But we can always appreciate beauty even within the impersonalist. The example is Srila Prabhupada remarking that Sri Yukeswar was a beautiful person. I see spiritual beauty in Ching Hai...I will hear her philosophy 'at arms length' however until her personalist status is revealed to me.Then I would feel safe in allowing myself to be drawn closer.

 

Thank you Vrindavan for posting those links.

[Vrindavan]

not sure if you read this before

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0001/ET13-5264.html

[Devarsirat]

The question here is if the person preaching about The Lord actually belongs to a bonafied disciplic succession and sampradaya.

If that link is not there then there can not be any genuine guidance .

[theist]

That was a great article. I know Amogalia das a little bit and could picture him easily asking those questions. From her response I am even more convinced she is an impersonalist moving people towards Brahman realization. A Vaisnava from any tradition would make it crystal clear that they are eternally subordinate to the Suprem Person. It shouldn't require pulling teeth. Amogalila is a very intelligent and sharp person and he kept asking for a definite clear treaching on the issue and I did not ever hear an unequivical statement from Ching Hai. A lover of Krsna would take such a question as a great oppurtunity to elaborate on the eternal distinction between the jiva and the Lord.

 

She quoted Christ when He said "I and the Father are one." but like so many others she neglected to quote the verse that came shortly after that where Christ also says "The Father is greater than I". That is clearly acintya-bhedabheda.

 

I must say I still like her because I believe she is sincere in her realizations and not a scammer like Rajneesh (Osho) and his ilk.

 

I am not surprised that tears were shead between Amoglila and Ching Hai because they are both sincere in their realizations of God so clearly when two such people meet there must be a loving exchange despite some possible differences in philosophy. Afterall the Brahman is Krsna's aura and authentic God realization is partially manifest by contacting the Brahman and it is clear Ching Hai is directly tapping into that level.

 

But this very fact is the reason Vaisnavas (mono-theists) must be careful and not let themselves become more attracted to the Brahman through associating with such a teacher than Paramatma or Bhagavan. I sense a subtle misdirection for Vaisnavas in her teachings.

 

Just one man's opinon.

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

 

The question here is if the person preaching about The Lord actually belongs to a bonafied disciplic succession and sampradaya.

If that link is not there then there can not be any genuine guidance .

 

I must say I take a 180 degree opposite stance on that statement. If the siddhanta matchs then that person must have gotten it from the Lord. If the siddhanta matchs then THAT IS THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION!!!!!

 

I have no interest myself in some bodily succession of people in anyone particular tradition. That vision quickly becomes mundane sectarianism which stands in opposition to the spiritual reality.

 

We must follow the winding river of the transcendental current of Bhakti as BR Sridhar has taught and not be so concerned with bodily alignments.

[Devarsirat]

If we are god and everything is one, could you please send the supreme master my request, to send me all her money? Since everything is one, It should not matter in whose pocket it is.

 

I would also like to know, if everything is one, if she could tell me please, what I will be thinking on the 26. March 2008 at 14.00pm ?

 

And finally if she is god, asking the original question, will she be able to create an egg out of nothing right now?

 

Will she also be able to not display the effects of old age and finally the death and decay of her body?

 

Sweet and flowery lenguage everyone can speak and draw others into it, but following the gita and surrendering to a spiritual master who is and always has been a member of the disciplic succession is to "difficult" for most people, because there has to be submission but to be told Oh you are god, immideately they say....yeah baby cool...I am god I always knew i am different, now i know...its like the napoleon syndrom, so dont be fooled

[Guest guest]

I hear you prabhu. I'll just stick to Gaudiya Vaisnavism ... it's a tried and trusted system! Why take a chance and try someone else's philosophy that isn't entirely clear. Good luck to those that tread other paths though.

 

 

 

If we are god and everything is one, could you please send the supreme master my request, to send me all her money? Since everything is one, It should not matter in whose pocket it is.

 

I would also like to know, if everything is one, if she could tell me please, what I will be thinking on the 26. March 2008 at 14.00pm ?

 

And finally if she is god, asking the original question, will she be able to create an egg out of nothing right now?

 

Will she also be able to not display the effects of old age and finally the death and decay of her body?

 

Sweet and flowery lenguage everyone can speak and draw others into it, but following the gita and surrendering to a spiritual master who is and always has been a member of the disciplic succession is to "difficult" for most people, because there has to be submission but to be told Oh you are god, immideately they say....yeah baby cool...I am god I always knew i am different, now i know...its like the napoleon syndrom, so dont be fooled

[Devarsirat]

 

I must say I take a 180 degree opposite stance on that statement. If the siddhanta matchs then that person must have gotten it from the Lord. If the siddhanta matchs then THAT IS THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION!!!!!

 

I have no interest myself in some bodily succession of people in anyone particular tradition. That vision quickly becomes mundane sectarianism which stands in opposition to the spiritual reality.

 

We must follow the winding river of the transcendental current of Bhakti as BR Sridhar has taught and not be so concerned with bodily alignments.

 

 

 

So if someone says the opposite from the teachings of a bonafied sampradaya its obviously asampradaya. The teachings have to match those of a bonafied sampradaya 100%. They have to reflect what the Lord has said and not any different. If there is any diviation it can not be accepted.

 

If this wasnt so the original teaching of krishna 5000 years ago and Lord Caitanyas teachings would soon become distorted by speculations and become tarnished. The disciplic succession would break up and the science of devotional service As It Is would be lost.

 

Therefore the genuine spiritual master is of supermost importance and if anyone teaches different tattvas then previous spiritual masters belonging to a genuine sampradaya he should be rejected, like you are letting a hot potetoe fall to the ground.

 

So whoever follows the principles of freedom and practices bhakti yoga as it is prescribed in the revealed scriptures, who can controll the urges of the senses and never falls down, who chants the holy name of the Lord he can make disciple all over the world.

 

It is dependend on more then just teachings, i can also repeat teachings all day long and they most certainly can match siddhanta, but if i dont follow, if i dont chant, not offer my prasadam and have no spiritual master my self who is genuine and fits the description of what a genuine spiritual master is, then how can i say i am in the disciplic succession?

 

Teachings can be repeated by any tom dick and harry, this does not make them members of the genuine sampradaya.

[Devarsirat]

 

I hear you prabhu. I'll just stick to Gaudiya Vaisnavism ... it's a tried and trusted system! Why take a chance and try someone else's philosophy that isn't entirely clear. Good luck to those that tread other paths though.

 

Yeah you are completely right. It is those whose faith is not strong, who can be lulled into mayavadi and loose new age ideas.

 

Having said this they are only dangerous for your spiritual life if you take their ideas to heart, best thing is to study and study again and stay away from those who propagate other philosophies.

 

We have to expect these things to happen, they exist in India and with bhakti coming into the western world, so many other abreviasions "is that the word" , will also arrive. There will be sahajias, mayavadies of all sorts and so much more, all trying to influence the west with their ideas.

 

But what is the point to investigate them on the danger of damaging our devotional creeper? We have got something so happy making and amazing, there is no need to look any further.

[Guest guest]

 

We have got something so happy making and amazing, there is no need to look any further.

 

That is the clincher for me! Some may call it close-mindednes but so be it. When I have the easiest and joyful path back Home laid out before my eyes, I see no reason to look elsewhere.

[gHari]

Hockey pucks. Glad I didn't watch the supreme videos.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

If this wasnt so the original teaching of krishna 5000 years ago and Lord Caitanyas teachings would soon become distorted by speculations and become tarnished. The disciplic succession would break up and the science of devotional service As It Is would be lost.

Sorry to say, but this is not what *would* happen, this is exactly what *did* happen. If you study your Gaudiya Vaishnava history, you'll see that, by the time of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, Gaudiya Vaishnavism was "in a shambles". Things *had* gotten distorted to the point where the birthplace of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had been lost.

 

It was Bhaktivinode who reformed Gaudiya Vaishnavism, rediscovered the birthplace of Mahaprabhu, etc., decrying the numerous impostors.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta carried on his father's transcendental activities. In fact, one could say he "innovated" in terms of the nature and role of sannyas in the Gaudiya tradition.

 

As for the disciplic succession, it is not a list of "begats" such as one might find in the Bible. If you look at any of the versions of the Gaudiya sampradaya, you will notice chronological gaps, and large ones. The sampradaya isn't a formality, it is a spiritual current (as noted by a previous poster).

 

Who says what the disciplic succession is? Not you or I, Prabhu. Gurudev says.

 

 

Therefore the genuine spiritual master is of supermost importance and if anyone teaches different tattvas then previous spiritual masters belonging to a genuine sampradaya he should be rejected, like you are letting a hot potetoe fall to the ground.

Like I said, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta "innovated". While I'd be the first to admit that his innovations were not philosophical innovations, but adjustments to external factors for the sake of preaching, caution is urged in just what we drop like a hot potato.

 

At one point (before Kali Yuga), so many austerities were required to make spiritual advancement. Then, though the mercy of the Lord, the yuga-dharma of Hari Nama Sankirtan was given. The wonders, glory, and mercy of the Lord are infinite, and, thus, ever-fresh.

 

 

So whoever follows the principles of freedom and practices bhakti yoga as it is prescribed in the revealed scriptures, who can controll the urges of the senses and never falls down, who chants the holy name of the Lord he can make disciple all over the world.

But, Ching Hai has disciples all over the world. Does that mean she meets the other criteria?

 

How many disciples did Gaura Kishor Das Babaji have (I believe the correct answer is "one")? Does that have any relevance as to his worth to the Gaudiya Vaishnavas?

 

 

It is dependend on more then just teachings, i can also repeat teachings all day long and they most certainly can match siddhanta, but if i dont follow, if i dont chant, not offer my prasadam and have no spiritual master my self who is genuine and fits the description of what a genuine spiritual master is, then how can i say i am in the disciplic succession?

 

Teachings can be repeated by any tom dick and harry, this does not make them members of the genuine sampradaya.

Exactly. This is where you trip yourself up. One can perfectly maintain appearances and still be a snake. One can expertly quote shastra and still be a sense-enjoyer. Just because somebody says things that *seem* (to us with our imperfect vision) to correlate with the teachings of the previous acharyas, doesn't mean that they are fully realized.

 

Sorry to nit-pick here (though it's what I do best), but one does not offer prasadam. One offers bhoga to the Lord and gratefully takes the Lord's remnants as prasadam.

 

Ultimately, we are all relying on the mercy of the Lord for guidance and shelter.

[theist]

 

Sorry to nit-pick here (though it's what I do best), but one does not offer prasadam. One offers bhoga to the Lord and gratefully takes the Lord's remnants as prasadam.

Beautifully said. This is a mountain of a sentence with emmense import that we should remember inall phases of our spiritual practice.

[theist]

You know I didn't get the feeling at all that Vrndavan was suggesting people start flocking to Ching Hai and abandon GV. No need to hit the panic button yet.

 

This is the forum to explore all such topics and Vrndavan brought up an interesting one, at least to me.

[Guest guest]

I believe that is the center of this 'argument', for lack of a better word.

 

Some see no need to explore it and some want to. I don't see any harm in either (though for a neophyte such as myself, it's better not to venture there. The illusory energy is so tricky and can easily ensnare me there). I'm happy with what I'm into (GV) and don't see the need to explore the teachings of this person.

 

 

This is the forum to explore all such topics and Vrndavan brought up an interesting one, at least to me.

[theist]

 

I believe that is the center of this 'argument', for lack of a better word.

 

Some see no need to explore it and some want to. I don't see any harm in either (though for a neophyte such as myself, it's better not to venture there. The illusory energy is so tricky and can easily ensnare me there). I'm happy with what I'm into (GV) and don't see the need to explore the teachings of this person.

 

That's fine Debroah. The need to explore , to understand, is important for those wishing to have their (in this case GV) teaching listened to and considered by the others as well. These talks (I have only seen the 1st video so far) are in the context of World Faith conferences and interfaith dialogue settings where participants are expected to learn where the others are coming from and not just to preach AT others. This is my point.

 

Then there is the principle of acknowledging the truth that others have as well. The idea expressed above in a post that no one can have any truth revealed to them unless they carry a flag of of the 4 vaisnava sampradayas of India is wrong headed and sectarian in nature. Krsna consciousness is NON-sectarian. I will acknowledge the truth when I hear it even if spoken by the devil himself.

 

Hare Krsna