Wiill there be an ISKCON in the spiritual world???

[krsna]

I mean will there be a GBC, Prabhupada disciples and everybody else in a certain quarter of the transcendental whorl of the blue lotus flower known as Krsnaloka?

[Guest guest]

Yes because Srila Prabhupada said so. But no GBC, in my opinion because everything is 'governed' by Krishna in His abode.

 

 

I mean will there be a GBC, Prabhupada disciples and everybody else in a certain quarter of the transcendental whorl of the blue lotus flower known as Krsnaloka?

[Guest guest]

 

Yes because Srila Prabhupada said so.

 

Who can say for sure what he really meant in this particular case?

[suchandra]

Harikesa, 1998: But we have seen that as soon as one deviates from the "party-line" he is considered a heretic and rejected, although any thinking person can understand that the time has come to search deeply within ourselves to find out why this movement is mainly interested in money, power, buildings and empty institutionalization without any real spiritual energy or power and with few realized souls, while the children are abused and neglected, and the women are used and exploited without real respect as equal partners in life.

Therefore our family situations are in chaos and there is constant divorce and broken families which ruins the children. Sure it also happens in material world, but someday you might wake up and see that ISKCON is worse than the material world, while proudly posing itself as the only bona-fide and authorized institution for love of God. If devotees actually had such love, then how could they deal with each other so coldly? You should open your eyes and see for yourself what is going on in this so- called spiritual society. I pray for Krsna that there is not and never will be an ISKCON in the spiritual world, otherwise I will reconsider going back home.

Good luck for you. My love goes to those who are actually capable of thinking for themselves and accepting gold, even from a filthy place.

Your guide as long as you want it.

Harikesha das

[gHari]

It is well-accepted that Srila Prabhupada holds a prominent position in he spiritual world. Would not his eternal servants desire only to continue serving him there? I think it sounds reasonable enough.

[Guest guest]

True. I cannot claim to know what he really meant, so we'll need to turn to someone that does.

 

 

Who can say for sure what he really meant in this particular case?

[Guest guest]

Found this in the ISKCON Internal forum-

 

<B>

"As soon as we distinguish here is a pure devotee, here is a non-pure

devotee, that means I am a nonsense. Why you only want to be in the

spiritual sky with Siddhasvarupa? Why not all? If Siddhasvarupa can go,

why not everyone? Siddhasvarupa will go, you will go, Syamasundara will

go, all others will go. We will have another ISKCON there."

 

(Letter to Tusta Krsna, 14 December 1972)</B>

 

 

Who can say for sure what he really meant in this particular case?

[Guest guest]

That depends on what you think Srila Prabhupada meant by ISKCON.

 

From Prabhupada's folio -

 

<i>"I have translated the words Krsna consciousness from krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita." </i>

 

Of course there will be ISKCON in goloka, over there everyone is always thinking about Krsna. As to how you will be engaged in service, on the other hand, is an entirely different subject altogether.

 

There, we all strive to be maidservants of Srimati Radhika. That is the goal of our Krsna consciousness, to serve Krsna. And how? To be servant of the servant of the BEST servant (Srimati Radhika). So we are her maidservants in Goloka. Thusly engaged in Krsna's service we will be immersed in the nectararian ocean of Bhakti rasa (Krsna Bhakti Rasa Bhavita).

 

THAT IS ISKCON.

 

Srila Prabhupada took this Gopi Bhava Mantra from his Sannyasa Guru and after finishing his manifest pastimes on this planet, is now serving as a Gopi in Goloka. He is serving Srimati Radhika under Rupa Manjari as... well, that is a subject for another time.

[Guest guest]

Fascinating! Is there a source for this? How do you know?

 

 

Srila Prabhupada took this Gopi Bhava Mantra from his Sannyasa Guru and after finishing his manifest pastimes on this planet, is now serving as a Gopi in Goloka. He is serving Srimati Radhika under Rupa Manjari as... well, that is a subject for another time.

[Guest guest]

 

Fascinating! Is there a source for this? How do you know?

 

ALL sannyasis and babajis in our tradition get the same Gopi Bhava Mantra when they receive initiation into the renounced order of life

[Guest guest]

 

ALL sannyasis and babajis in our tradition get the same Gopi Bhava Mantra when they receive initiation into the renounced order of life

 

By "our tradition" I mean the lineage coming from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Most other Gaudiya lineages dont use any mantra with the acceptace of babaji vesa, let alone taking sannyasa at all.

[Guest guest]

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] This is bhava-mayi sadhana; and what is bhava-mayi? It is a relation with Krsna or a relation with Srimati Radhika. Then, that sadhana which brings that bhava (relation) of sakhya, vatsalya or madhurya, which is transferred into bhava, is called bhavamayi sadhana. For example, sravana (hearing): Pariksit Maharaja heard the Tenth Canto, and especially Brahmara-gita, Venu-gita, Gopi-gita etc., from Sri Sukadeva Gosvami. This is bhavamayi sravana. Kirtana: Sri Raya Ramananda spoke to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. What Mahaprabhu questioned and what Raya Ramananda replied, beginning with varnasrama-dharma up to Radhika’s highest mood of mahabhava, and also when Mahaprabhu revealed his form as Rasaraja-mahabhava, is called bhavamayi kirtana.

First there must be hearing (sravana) and after that explaining (kirtana). Anu-kirtanam means that first comes sravana and then kirtana. If you are not following, and in the meantime you are instructing others, this is zero; it is karma. First you should follow, realize something, and then preach; otherwise, what will you preach? You will preach, "By bhakti we can easily make money." First of all have some realization, follow all the instructions of Guru and sastra, and then you can preach. This is kirtana. Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami heard from Sri Svarupa Damodara and Srila Rupa Gosvami heard from Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. These are bhavamayi sravana, kirtana and smarana. They support and nourish the prema kalpa-taru (the desire-tree of prema-bhakti, or in other words, the moods of service to Srimati Radhika in prema-bhakti). Bhava comes in the heart and that is why this is called bhavamayi-sadhana – raganuga or rupanuga bhajana.

What is bhava-sambandhi sadhana?

"The angas of bhakti beginning from acceptance of the shelter of a spiritual master, mantra-japa, hearing, chanting and remembering of the name, form, qualities, and pastimes appropriate for different periods of the day of Sri Krsna and the beloved associates of Krsna towards whom one has attraction…are known as bhava-sambandhi-sadhana. The upadana-karana, or material cause of bhava is called bhava-sambandhi. That by which bhava later develops is called the material cause. Bhava is shaped or molded by the various angas of bhakti such as guru-padasraya and so on. Therefore, these angas are called bhava-sambandhi-sadhana or that which is related to bhava. (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindu)…

Regarding the stage of perfection, prema-bhakti, the siddha stage, Srila Rupa Gosvami has written:

avijnatakhila klesah

sada krsnasrita kriyah

siddhah syuh santata prema

saukhyasvada parayanah

"One who is fully immersed in activities related to Sri Krsna, who is completely unacquainted with impediments (vighna) or material distress (klesa) and who incessantly tastes the bliss of prema is called a siddha-bhakta." (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu-bindu)

What are the symptoms of a siddha-bhakta? Siddha-bhaktas do not know obstacles or distress at all. A bhava-bhakta may face them, but he will not be affected by them. He will feel some suffering It will come and he will see and experience it, but he will tolerate and pass over it. A siddha-bhakta, on the other hand, does not know what are impediments or problems. He experiences no fear, hunger, thirst, fever, disease, old age – nothing of the sort. He is in this world but beyond this world. He is compared to the lotus leaf, which is in the water but is not affected by it. "Sada krsnasrita kriya": He is always engaged in favorable service, for the pleasure of Krsna – always engaged in that bhava-mayi and bhava-sambhandhi. He is especially engaged in astakaliya-lila, serving under the guidance of Srila Rupa Gosvami (Rupa Manjari), and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, (Rati Manjari). He always thinks about how Rupa Gosvami and Raghunatha Gosvami used to serve and do sadhana-bhajana. "Santata prema saukhyasvada parayanah": those who always taste sakha, vatsalya and especially madhurya are siddha.

Thus, Srila Rupa Gosvami has given three types or stages of bhakti: sadhana-bhakti, bhava-bhakti and siddha-bhakti (prema-bhakti). I want you to aspire for this and try to realize all these topics. Don’t waste your time. If you are always engaged in sense gratification, very busily maintaining your life, you will lose so much time. Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja came to the Western countries, and our guru-varga came, and they travelled over the universe. You are very fortunate to come into their line, so don’t loose this time – this good fortune. At once come further in this line. Don’t do anything for your maintenance; it will come automatically, just as your calamities and distress come automatically. Material activities will "come on your heads" and forcibly make you old; and you will lose your position and everything else. Therefore don’t waste your time on those things. From the beginning, from today, try to follow all these instructions.

Gaura Premanande.

[Guest guest]

Lowborn prabhu ... I meant how does the GuestAN poster know that Srila Prabhupada is a gopi and that he is serving under Rupa Manjari in Goloka?

 

 

ALL sannyasis and babajis in our tradition get the same Gopi Bhava Mantra when they receive initiation into the renounced order of life

[Guest guest]

 

Lowborn prabhu ... I meant how does the GuestAN poster know that Srila Prabhupada is a gopi and that he is serving under Rupa Manjari in Goloka?

 

that is a typical Gaudiya assumption/speculation

[Guest guest]

LOL prabhu. OK, that clear it up then!

 

I always wondered why some Acaryas are assumed to be gopis. They can be cowherd boys.

 

 

that is a typical Gaudiya assumption/speculation

[Guest guest]

My understanding is that the Acaryas coming in the line of Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada are Rupanugas. Srila Rupa Gosvami is known as Sri Rupa Manjari in Goloka Vrndavana. Manjaris are maidservants to the Gopis. Certainly there may be other Acaryas who are situated in other rasas, especially those from previous yugas or in those kali yugas where Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu does not appear. But in this particular kali yuga, the goal of Rupanuga Vaishnavas is to become maidservants, which would seem to indicate that the Acaryas in this line are maidservants themselves.

 

from Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur's Sri Sri Gurvastaka:

 

 

nikunja-yuno rati-keli-siddhyai

ya yalibhir yuktir apeksaniya

tatrati-daksyad ati-vallabhasya

vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

 

The spiritual master is very dear, because he is expert in assisting the gopis, who at different times make different tasteful arrangements for the perfection of Radha and Krsna's conjugal loving affairs within the groves of Vrndavana. I offer my most humble obeisances unto the lotus feet of such a spiritual master.

 

from Srila Prabhupada's purport to Srila Narottama dasa Thakur's Nityananda Nistha:

 

 

The aim of this Krsna consciousness movement is to enable us to approach Radha-Krsna and associate with the Supreme Lord in His sublime pleasure dance.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Brenda prabhu.

 

You say "Manjaris are maidservants to the Gopis". Aren't Manjaris maidservants of the Sakhis?

 

 

My understanding is that the Acaryas coming in the line of Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada are Rupanugas. Srila Rupa Gosvami is known as Sri Rupa Manjari in Goloka Vrndavana. Manjaris are maidservants to the Gopis. Certainly there may be other Acaryas who are situated in other rasas, especially those from previous yugas or in those kali yugas where Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu does not appear. But in this particular kali yuga, the goal of Rupanuga Vaishnavas is to become maidservants, which would seem to indicate that the Acaryas in this line are maidservants themselves.

 

from Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur's Sri Sri Gurvastaka:

 

from Srila Prabhupada's purport to Srila Narottama dasa Thakur's Nityananda Nistha:

[Guest guest]

 

You say "Manjaris are maidservants to the Gopis". Aren't Manjaris maidservants of the Sakhis?

 

Hare Krsna Deborah,

 

I'm not an expert on these matters (and needed to look this up for clarification) but my understanding here is that sakhis are gopis, but not all gopis are sakhis. Sakhis are generally of the same age as Srimati Radharani. There are 5 kinds of sakhis according to Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu. Lalita and Visaka are in the group called parama-prestha-sakhis. Manjaris are also sakhis, (nitya sakhis and prana sakhis), but of a younger age than the others. So, you are correct. Manjaris are maidservants of the other sakhis.