krsna Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 If not, then you are really not entitled to get Krsna's full mercy. Actually Krsna wants this kind of full un-conditional 100% surrender to His dear pure devotee as the price for purchasing His vey self. Didn't Srila Prabhupada risk his life in trying to give Krsna Conciousness to the world? Didn't Srila Bhaktisiddhanta risk his life in trying to defeat the smarta brahmanas of his day? Didn't Krsna and Balarama in Their gurkula-lila risk Their lives collecting firewood for Their Guru Sandipani Muni? Who among us is really willing and fully prepared to lay down their lives on the sacrificial altar of Sri Krsna Sankirtana exclusively for the pleasure of Sri Guru and Sri Gouranga in order to get Their full mercy? Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Gurus like to teach their disciples this idea. Some even go to "are you prepared to kill for your guru" step, with just as many examples. Very dangerous and unnecessary ideas. Actually, a proper question should be "are you prepared to LIVE for your guru, are you prepared to give others LIFE for your guru." Let the jihadists and fanatic armageddonists and madhi freaks play with their bloody christ religions. mahaksadasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Dying to the false ego (bodily identification) is the death required not the death of the body. To the degree we die to the false self we live for the guru. In this sense we die for the guru. As Christ said, "Pick up your cross and follow me." Willing sacrifice of the lower false self to resurrect the higher true self. I think it was Paul who said 'I die daily". The material viewpoint is upside down, inside out. The real death is when the atma is first covered by ahankara. The resurrected or liberated soul is the state where we regain our life. The nature of one who is alive in the true sense is loving devotion to guru and God and for Them only does he live. And only such a liberated soul is truly alive. And as Mahaksa has explained such a soul is never affiliated with fanatical religion crusades of jihadi movements. So if our guru asks us to participate in a fanatical religious way we know we must seek siksa from someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 If not, then you are really not entitled to get Krsna's full mercy. The question is provocative and fully fictional. If a guru asks you to die for him it is definitely time to find na new guru. When we risk our lives in the service of our guru, we are NOT asked to die. That is a perverted idea. We risk our lives daily driving a car in heavy traffic - that is not a big deal. No guru in our tradition asked his disciple to die for him. If you can quote shastra or history to show otherwise we can talk. Otherwise the question itself is bogus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 If not, then you are really not entitled to get Krsna's full mercy. Actually Krsna wants this kind of full un-conditional 100% surrender to His dear pure devotee as the price for purchasing His vey self. Didn't Srila Prabhupada risk his life in trying to give Krsna Conciousness to the world? Didn't Srila Bhaktisiddhanta risk his life in trying to defeat the smarta brahmanas of his day? Didn't Krsna and Balarama in Their gurkula-lila risk Their lives collecting firewood for Their Guru Sandipani Muni? Who among us is really willing and fully prepared to lay down their lives on the sacrificial altar of Sri Krsna Sankirtana exclusively for the pleasure of Sri Guru and Sri Gouranga in order to get Their full mercy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Didn't Srila Prabhupada risk his life in trying to give Krsna Conciousness to the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Didn't Srila Prabhupada risk his life in trying to give Krsna Conciousness to the world? He risked his life going outside in New York City to get groceries. You risk your life each time you go potty number two (lots of folks die of heart attacks on the toilet). Srila Sridhar Maharaj said "Die to live", but what did he mean by that? Did he mean to enlist in the US Army and go die in Iraq? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirisilex Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 I would die for anyone who needs it.. why only for Guru? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 NOT UNTIL THE SEAHAWKS WIN THE SUPERBOWL AND THE MARINERS WIN THE WORLD SERIES! IF THAT HAPPENS THEN I WILL BE WILLING TO DIE FOR REVEREND AL SHARPTON. JUST KIDDING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Didn't Srila Bhaktisiddhanta risk his life in trying to defeat the smarta brahmanas of his day? Didn't Krsna and Balarama in Their gurkula-lila risk Their lives collecting firewood for Their Guru Sandipani Muni? Who among us is really willing and fully prepared to lay down their lives on the sacrificial altar of Sri Krsna Sankirtana exclusively for the pleasure of Sri Guru and Sri Gouranga in order to get Their full mercy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 Thanks, ancient, and nice to hear you again. Good points. A true fan would never include the sonics, but Ms and Hawks, there is a goal in life to die for. Thanks, theist (again) for pointing out the difference between death of the body and death of mundaNE CONSCIOUSNESS. As far as the other things listed, the risks of our preceptors, these things are not even considered in their service. In fact, greater risks are undertaken every day by the materialist, so this issue is kind of dead, if you catch my drift. You missed a critical event, Haridas Thakur, who was tortured because he chanted the holy names and refused to give them up. The other items you list are not noteworthy in the context of accepting death in the service of guru, and, quite frankly, it is presumptuous to say someone is not worthy. Lord Narayana did not think so, he had his messengers take on Lord Yamaraja for one who certainly had no intent of dying for anyone other than his own material lust. Lord Narayana has a different standard than you portray. Get off this vengeful god notion, a perversion of Judea-christianity and Islam. Such a god has no attraction, therefore is not KRSNA. mahaksadasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 No. If not, then you are really not entitled to get Krsna's full mercy. Actually Krsna wants this kind of full un-conditional 100% surrender to His dear pure devotee as the price for purchasing His vey self. Didn't Srila Prabhupada risk his life in trying to give Krsna Conciousness to the world? Didn't Srila Bhaktisiddhanta risk his life in trying to defeat the smarta brahmanas of his day? Didn't Krsna and Balarama in Their gurkula-lila risk Their lives collecting firewood for Their Guru Sandipani Muni? Who among us is really willing and fully prepared to lay down their lives on the sacrificial altar of Sri Krsna Sankirtana exclusively for the pleasure of Sri Guru and Sri Gouranga in order to get Their full mercy? Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kripa_karo_radhe Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 No. arre guru par sab nichavar hona chahiye sacha guru kabhi jaan lega nahin lekin agar parikcha ke liye kahe chahe jaan ki toh haazir honi chahiye............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celina12 Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 a bit to dramatic for my taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celina12 Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 Gurus like to teach their disciples this idea. Some even go to "are you prepared to kill for your guru" step, with just as many examples. Very dangerous and unnecessary ideas. Actually, a proper question should be "are you prepared to LIVE for your guru, are you prepared to give others LIFE for your guru." Let the jihadists and fanatic armageddonists and madhi freaks play with their bloody christ religions. mahaksadasa I agree 100%. this type of mentality isn't applicable to Sanatana Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celina12 Posted May 13, 2007 Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 The question is provocative and fully fictional. If a guru asks you to die for him it is definitely time to find na new guru. When we risk our lives in the service of our guru, we are NOT asked to die. That is a perverted idea. We risk our lives daily driving a car in heavy traffic - that is not a big deal. No guru in our tradition asked his disciple to die for him. If you can quote shastra or history to show otherwise we can talk. Otherwise the question itself is bogus. thank you I've never heard anyone in our tradition speak that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 even more important........................... ARE YOU PREPARED TO LIVE FOR YOUR GURU? To die for the guru is easy. It's living for the guru that is the real challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 I'm in line right behind KB and mahak here. The real thing is to live for the guru's service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Having the willingness to die in the service and living the life of service to guru are actually the same thing. This topic is clearly shown in the life of Christ. It behooves one to make sure Supersoul has revealed that individual to you as His representative or you may end up in Jonestown drinking that special koolaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Did Krsna ask Arjuna to "die" for Him on the battlefield of Kuruksetra??? Isn't it all "DO or DIE" for the Guru??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Did Mahaprabhu ask Haridas Thakura to "die"for Him in 22 marketplaces??? Did Krsna ask Arjuna to "die" for Him on the battlefield of Kuruksetra??? No. Can you show me such verses? Isn't it all "DO or DIE" for the Guru??? And the pramana for this is . . . ? My spiritual master asked me to work very hard to present the perfection of Krishna consciousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Vaisnavas live and die to benefit others: prana ache ta’ra:deal: Yes we should all work to our utmost capacity to spread the message of Sriman Mahaprabhu. I leave you with the following extract on the depth of surrender and devotion required in order to deliver the topmost teachings of Krsna prema to the fallen jivas of this material world: :pray: Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhara Deva-Goswami Maharaja: "Do or die" is the slogan of Mahaprabhu's followers. Let us try. Let us strive our utmost to achieve what is our own real prospect. No compromise. There must be no compromise along the way, but we must fight to the finish and we must be prepared for that. Our Guru Maharaja, Prabhupada Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura, was the Acarya of the whole Gaudiya Matha and he was of such nature. He was not haphazard or prepared to make any compromise - nothing of the kind. Prabhupada Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura had to begin his fight almost single-handedly against the whole of the world - against all the different stages of culture ever known to the world. His only support was Srimad Bhagavatam and Sriman Mahaprabhu. He proceeded with 'heart within and God overhead.' On his head was Mahaprabhu and Bhagavatam. He stood alone to fight out Their cause. Not only did he want to fight in Bengal, the province of Mahaprabhu, and not only in India, but he wanted to fight outside as well. He wanted to attack the highest position of the present civilisation - the Western world, the scientific civilization. They are so proud with their present achievements, but Srila Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada wanted to break down the whole structure of the present false civilisation. He wanted to demolish it and construct a divine temple over the ruins. He wanted to construct a temple of God over the mundane world. He wanted to present not any half-truth, but the fullest: in his words, "full-fedged theism" in accordance with Srimad Bhagavatam. We are not to stop halfway or be satisfied with partial progress, but we are to only engage in wholesale dealings, and that is given by Srimad Bhagavatam. avismrtih krsna-padaravindayoh The conception of theism follows these lines. It is continual existence under the holy protection of the Divine Feet of Krsna: to maintain one's life of continuous engagement with all sorts of activities, while thinking, "The guide is upon my head. The Divine Feet of Krsna are upon my head." With this attitude we can easily remove what is foreign within us in no time at all. The continual rememberance of Krsna's Lotus Feet, of Krsna's connection, will in no time disperse all the difficulties along the way, as well as all meanness and all that is not dignified. Our Srila Guru Maharaja said," The Gaudiya Matha stands for the dignity of human race." We are to understand that slavery to Krsna is a most dignified position. And everything against that ideal is meanness. The only standard of life for a gentleman is to understand and accept the position of subordination to the Absolute Truth. To admit what is proper and real, and on that basis make one's life advanced, is not meanness. To understand one's proper position and to understand one's proper duty and discharge it - that is a gentleman's life; to accept what is truth. What is considered to be meanness will be removed very soon. And what is really for our welfare and beneficial to us, that will increase. You are at present in an adulterated conception of your own life. The mind, intelligence and exploiting energies of different kinds are all adulteration. It will be purified and your real self within will come out in its pristine glory, and you will find you have a happy devotional connection with the Supersoul, the Super-knowledge. You will come across knowledge proper - a clear, personal type of knowledge - with its paraphernalia and systematic existence. Whatever you are attracted to at present in this mundane plane will be transferred. Affection proper will be discovered. At present your affection, attraction, and love are misdirected, but they will find their proper place and position. The special characteristic is that you will have a real place and position where these faculties of affection and attraction will find a special support, a proper place to which they will be directed. This is devotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Nice try, and thanks for the nectar. But this is a figure of speech which means just what I said Srila Prabhupada told me: work very hard. And Srila Sridhar Maharaja, a great poet, is talking here about giving everything to attain and share Krishna consciousness: "Let us strive our utmost to achieve what is our own real prospect. No compromise." Srila Sarasvati Thakura suggested that every member of the mission should be prepared to shed two hundred gallons of blood (or something like that) for nourishing th spiritual lives of others. What do you think he meant: mutlple trips to the blood bank? Slitting your wrists? No--it's a figure of speech, a metaphor. It means give all you have, and more, to help others find shelter under Mahaprabhu's lotus feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 No, it isn't. Did Krsna ask Arjuna to "die" for Him on the battlefield of Kuruksetra??? Isn't it all "DO or DIE" for the Guru??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Nice try, and thanks for the nectar. But this is a figure of speech which means just what I said Srila Prabhupada told me: work very hard. And Srila Sridhar Maharaja, a great poet, is talking here about giving everything to attain and share Krishna consciousness: "Let us strive our utmost to achieve what is our own real prospect. No compromise." Srila Sarasvati Thakura suggested that every member of the mission should be prepared to shed two hundred gallons of blood (or something like that) for nourishing th spiritual lives of others. What do you think he meant: mutlple trips to the blood bank? Slitting your wrists? No--it's a figure of speech, a metaphor. It means give all you have, and more, to help others find shelter under Mahaprabhu's lotus feet.[/quote] I agree. It's not for me to ask when or why. It's for me to "Do or Die!":pray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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