amniotic sac or stool urine and worms?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Second, I never said or believed that the speakers or writers of Bhagavatam knew every detail of material existence - but yes, there are many devotees who believe just that.

Granted that, which of us can deny that the Sweet Lord (as Paramatma/ as "intuition") can reveal in the hearts of his Devotee any truth or wisdom which He so chooses.

 

Even in science, the first thing is the conception in the mind. From that point experimentation proceeds.

 

Theist Prabhu. I can see you are deeply scarred by the ontological traumas you have endured at the hands of fundamentalist aspirants back in the '70s. I can also see you implying all sorts of conclusions and attitudes than nobody in this discussion has expressed.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Third, the moon controversy was initiated by Srila Prabhupada, for better or worse, and I personally disagree with his opinion on that matter (Moon further than the Sun), but again - as a movement - we dont have the courage and honesty to address this issue in public and the controversy and ridicule persists.

In a mathematics class, I came across a simple illustration that struck me as rather profound.

 

The image illustrated that, in mathematics, the shortest point between two places in the "real" number domain can actually pass through the "imaginary" number domain.

 

In the field of Electrical Engineering (and others no doubt), there are practical calculations which involve the imaginary number "i" (defined as the square root of negative one).

 

As I mentioned in another post on this topic, the scientific fields of topography and string theory are looking at ways that surfaces and shapes can be manipulated (in ways we tend not to see in the "real" world). Space itself may be curved/folded/stretched in so many ways...

 

What am I trying to say?

 

While a theory that could harmonize scientific cosmology and Vedic cosmology in this instance may not be readily apparent, with informed (not blind) faith, it's safe to suspend our judgement that the shastra must be wrong and assume that, for the time-being, the reconcilliation is inconceivable (acintya).

[Guest guest]

 

While a theory that could harmonize scientific cosmology and Vedic cosmology in this instance may not be readily apparent, with informed (not blind) faith, it's safe to suspend our judgement that the shastra must be wrong and assume that, for the time-being, the reconcilliation is inconceivable (acintya).

 

When we are pushing our particular theory of such reconciliation as the ONE and ONLY legitimate approach we have the same problem as with blind acceptance. Many of Srila Prabhupada's followers push his take on these matters as the only true option and that is what hampers the efforts of scientifically minded devotees to address this issue in a sound and logical fashion.

 

On top of that it is a myth that Bhagavatam is talking about a linear distances between these three celestial objects. Bhagavatam is talking about elevations of the three planes of existence (not planets) above the Garbodhaka Ocean - what it actually means in terms of our world is a subject of much speculation and difference of opinion.

[Guest guest]

 

The Bhagavatam is wrong but the point on which the error occurs is not important in terms of the objective of the bhagavatam's intended message.

 

If the Bhagavatam is wrong about certain things, how do I know it is right about Krishna?

[theist]

 

First of all, these two translations have important differences in details altough the main theme (suffering in the womb is the same).

 

They seemed the same to me. Oh well a difference in perception.

 

 

Second, I never said or believed that the speakers or writers of Bhagavatam knew every detail of material existence - but yes, there are many devotees who believe just that.

 

They seem to be the majority and view those who think differently as heretics.

 

 

Third, the moon controversy was initiated by Srila Prabhupada, for better or worse, and I personally disagree with his opinion on that matter (Moon further than the Sun), but again - as a movement - we dont have the courage and honesty to address this issue in public and the controversy and ridicule persists.

 

True. I view Srila Prabhupada and other great acaryas in the same way I view the Bhagavatam. The errors and mistatemnts are always on the immaterial (material), trival things of life while they speak from realization on things of transcendence. Is this what BR Sridhar meant by guru having a relative and absolute side I wonder?

[theist]

 

I missed one of your apparent misconceptions the first time I read this.

 

You read the verse as saying that the fetus if falling unconscious and regaining consciousness due to the misery of being in the womb (which, no doubt *is* true--fetuses sleep too).

 

I read it as saying that the material discomfort conditions the soul and causes her to fall unconscious of her true constitutional position as an eternal-conscious-blissful servant of the Supreme Lord.

 

I never considered that angle which is the more esoteric of the two.

 

I was addressing the bare facts that state that the worms biting were the cause of this trauma and the fact that the amniotic sac made this impossible.

 

Why illustrate an important truth with an incorrect analogy?

[theist]

 

Theist Prabhu. I can see you are deeply scarred by the ontological traumas you have endured at the hands of fundamentalist aspirants back in the '70s. I can also see you implying all sorts of conclusions and attitudes than nobody in this discussion has expressed.

 

 

As I mentioned to someone I am using the more generic you mostly addressing the wide devotee body as there are many who read this forum. Sorry for any confusion although there have been fundementalists replies on this thread also.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

They seem to be the majority and view those who think differently as heretics.

Be that as it may (and your experience and mine have varied greatly in this regards), to act in the way that you and Lowborn-ji have described certain aspiring devotees acting is not very much in keeping with Mahaprabhu's ideal of humility and tolerance is it?

 

 

The errors and mistatemnts are always on the immaterial (material), trival things of life while they speak from realization on things of transcendence. Is this what BR Sridhar meant by guru having a relative and absolute side I wonder?

I think you're on to something there, Prabhu. I would qualify the words "errors and mistatements" with the word "apparent", however, since, as we cannot be certain (in the sense of scientific rigor) of the truth of any statement in this realm of matter and relativity, we similarly cannot be certain of the falsehood of any statement.

[Guest guest]

 

They seemed the same to me. Oh well a difference in perception.

 

No, for example the second translation does not mention worms. On top of that these differences in translations show the need to closely look at the sanskrit and to make sure that the translator is not conveying a meaning which is not really in the verse.

[theist]

 

If the Bhagavatam is wrong about certain things, how do I know it is right about Krishna?

 

Here we get to the very heart of things. This is a dangerous position to rest on. If the Bhagavatam is wrong on one little thing then how can we believe anything in the Bhagavatam? This is what I call blind faith. It is also lazy faith. We start with an attitude of "just believe it prabhu" and thus our understandings and faith never get beyond the surface word platform. I believe that spiritual realization is far deeper then this level and if we become comfortable here we will never really know Krsna, we will just kinda believe some things about Him and even those beliefs can be thrown out in a moment when come across a mistake in the Bhagavatam.

 

Sighted faith is based on the touch from the Lord in the heart which comes with His personal conformation that we call realizations.

 

If we have actually had such confirmations from Supersoul how could a mistake in the Bhagavatam or anything else for that matter cause us to doubt the reality of Krsna?

 

It's my beief that when we read something in the Bhagavatam about Krsna we then need to pray to the Lord for realization of that fact. We must do this. for one thing what assurance do I have that I am reading what is said correctly in the first place? Should I just believe my own assumptions? No. That is mental speculation.

 

We always hear guru sadhu sastra but what about Supersoul? the objection is we can't hear Supersoul but we can hear guru sadhu and sastra. My response is that if we cannot hear Supersoul then we cannot hear guru sadhu satra either because presumably these are the very voices of paramatma just reaching us through external sense perception.

 

This is like the hearing of the parrot. We must all strive to go beyond the comfort zone of parrot hearing and believing.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

SB 3.31.5: Deriving its nutrition from the food and drink taken by the mother, the fetus grows and remains in that abominable residence of stools and urine, which is the breeding place of all kinds of worms.

SB 3.31.6: Bitten again and again all over the body by the hungry worms in the abdomen itself, the child suffers terrible agony because of his tenderness. He thus becomes unconscious moment after moment because of the terrible condition.

 

 

From the American Pregnncy Association

 

What is the amniotic sac and what does it do?

 

The amniotic sac is filled with the amniotic fluid. This sac is your baby's home, gymnasium, and protection from outside knocks, bumps, and other external pressures. The amniotic sac allows the fetus ample room to swim and move around which helps build muscle tone. To keep the baby cozy, the amniotic sac and fluid maintain a slightly higher temperature than the mother's body, usually 99.7 F.

At week 10, there is around 30 ml of fluid present. The amniotic fluid will reach it's peak around weeks 34-36 at about 1 liter. When your water breaks, it is this sac that ruptures and this fluid that leaves the body. Your baby's life is still being supported by the umbilical cord, and you should be meeting your baby soon!

 

 

 

 

Are devotees comfortable using the Bhagavatam's quotes about the fetus living in stool and urine and being bitten by worms and going in and out of consciousness in light of modern medical knowledge?

 

Dear Theist,

 

I had a near death experiance during a motorcycle accident on PCH just North of Santa Monica. There was a 10 car accident and as good as I was on 1000cc super bikes, I was cought by a bumper and flipped off the bike. I did numerous summersaults and hit the groud flat on my back. My first reaction was to take a mental assesment of my physical condition. I was sure that I was going to die, so I chanted the maha mantra-- Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rame Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

 

I was in an instant transported to the court of Yamaraj. But not in front of Him for judgement. I came in from His left side, like from the wings next to His throne and stood, looking up, at the biggest(25 ft) most beautifull person I have ever seen. He looked down at me and said 'You do not belong here, go back'. I instantly was put in the body of my father, injected into the womb of my mother. I relived every infinitesimal moment from the time of awakening as sperm in my fathers body, up to the actual instant of regaining consciuosness lying on the pavment in great pain from the accident.

 

I have full memory now of the womb and I tell you it is just as the Srimad Bhagavatam discribes. And we do see Lord Visnu in that hellish condition. But forget Him at the time of birth.

 

Hare Krsna,

 

CBR

[bhaktatraveler]

 

You are challenging blind faith in shastra but not blind faith in science.

You are quite secure to have blind faith in science and the Bible, but you are very quick to challenge blind faith in the Bhagavatam.

 

This selective blind faith that you promote is a scam.

 

If you are going to challenge blind faith, then why don't you challenge blind faith in the mundane instead of blind faith in the inconceivable?

 

Your attack on blind faith has an agenda and is not unbiased and objective.

 

You only challenge blind faith where blind faith is the only thing we have.

 

You encourage blind faith in mundane science and mundane religion.

 

So, it's quite obvious that you have a prejudice and an agenda that is not objective.

 

You just got to love this guy. Hare Krsna.

[theist]

 

Be that as it may (and your experience and mine have varied greatly in this regards), to act in the way that you and Lowborn-ji have described certain aspiring devotees acting is not very much in keeping with Mahaprabhu's ideal of humility and tolerance is it?

Yes that is the point.

 

 

 

I think you're on to something there, Prabhu. I would qualify the words "errors and mistatements" with the word "apparent", however, since, as we cannot be certain (in the sense of scientific rigor) of the truth of any statement in this realm of matter and relativity, we similarly cannot be certain of the falsehood of any statement.

Apparent may seem more polite but seriously considering the moon farther from earth than the sun is simply a mistake and not an apparent mistake. Same with the amniotic sac. It either exists or it doesn't.

 

People regularly come on this forum and ask about when the soul enters matter. And we quote this chapter from kapiladeva in response and as a proof that the soul enters the fathers semen then eneters the egg. But then they come to the description of life in the womb following conception and see an error. What then? Will they just conclude that they may as well not accept the whole thing because of one error? That would be tragic. I am proposing we address all such questions more carefully in the future.

[Guest guest]

 

I would qualify the words "errors and mistatements" with the word "apparent", however, since, as we cannot be certain (in the sense of scientific rigor) of the truth of any statement in this realm of matter and relativity, we similarly cannot be certain of the falsehood of any statement.

 

You mean there is no scientific method to very precisely and correctly calculate the distances between Earth, Sun, and Moon for example? If so, I assure you are very mistaken. You pretend like it is all a bunch of wild speculations unverifiable by "scientific rigor". Try to apply half of your "scientific rigor" to various claims made by different devotees to see how well they perform under scientific scrutiny.

 

If you claim that nothing is verifiable by direct experience and faith is all we've got then you are rejecting our siddhanta which lists three legitimate methods for aquiring knowledge: shabda, pratyaksa, and anumana.

[theist]

 

Dear Theist,

 

I had a near death experiance during a motorcycle accident on PCH just North of Santa Monica. There was a 10 car accident and as good as I was on 1000cc super bikes, I was cought by a bumper and flipped off the bike. I did numerous summersaults and hit the groud flat on my back. My first reaction was to take a mental assesment of my physical condition. I was sure that I was going to die, so I chanted the maha mantra-- Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rame Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

 

I was in an instant transported to the court of Yamaraj. But not in front of Him for judgement. I came in from His left side, like from the wings next to His throne and stood, looking up, at the biggest(25 ft) most beautifull person I have ever seen. He looked down at me and said 'You do not belong here, go back'. I instantly was put in the body of my father, injected into the womb of my mother. I relived every infinitesimal moment from the time of awakening as sperm in my fathers body, up to the actual instant of regaining consciuosness lying on the pavment in great pain from the accident.

 

I have full memory now of the womb and I tell you it is just as the Srimad Bhagavatam discribes. And we do see Lord Visnu in that hellish condition. But forget Him at the time of birth.

 

Hare Krsna,

 

CBR

 

That is an interesting, no a VERY interesting account of your NDE and I believe in the reality of what you say. Of course NDE's are always colored by the beliefs we carry into the NDE. The same mind that was embodied is now disembodied by carrying the same conceptions.

 

And on you entering your fathers semen...I had an experience one time on a pyschedelic trip with baby hawaiian wood rose seeds i which I found exoerienced myself just prebirth. I was in an ocean of nondual substance with full sense of individuality and could sense a Supra intelligent being directing my path forward. I had no sense of motion yet I knew I was approahing a destination. Then i saw a group of spermatazoia and received a telepathic message that I was going to enter one for my birth on earth.

 

I also believe in the account of the Bhagavatam but just not in all the details.

 

Interesting in your account of reliving your entire life past before regaining consciousness the time seqence could not fit with our earth conception of time.

 

Another question that will make sense only if we have had a shared experience here; while reliving your life did you have the impression that your life was captured on a tape and that you were experiencing a replaying of that tape equipted with emotion states etc.?

 

I have had minature life reviews where this was the case. Something akin to one's life passing before your eyes just prior to death.

 

Anyway...

[bhaktatraveler]

 

That is an interesting, no a VERY interesting account of your NDE and I believe in the reality of what you say. Of course NDE's are always colored by the beliefs we carry into the NDE. The same mind that was embodied is now disembodied by carrying the same conceptions.

 

And on you entering your fathers semen...I had an experience one time on a pyschedelic trip with baby hawaiian wood rose seeds i which I found exoerienced myself just prebirth. I was in an ocean of nondual substance with full sense of individuality and could sense a Supra intelligent being directing my path forward. I had no sense of motion yet I knew I was approahing a destination. Then i saw a group of spermatazoia and received a telepathic message that I was going to enter one for my birth on earth.

 

I also believe in the account of the Bhagavatam but just not in all the details.

 

Interesting in your account of reliving your entire life past before regaining consciousness the time seqence could not fit with our earth conception of time.

 

Another question that will make sense only if we have had a shared experience here; while reliving your life did you have the impression that your life was captured on a tape and that you were experiencing a replaying of that tape equipted with emotion states etc.?

 

I have had minature life reviews where this was the case. Something akin to one's life passing before your eyes just prior to death.

 

Anyway...

 

Cool! "Ocean of nondual substance' love it!

 

It all felt real time, not like a replay. It was almost like a reajustment or reintroduction back into the body I was in to begin with(this life). Maybe do to the souls leaving under the terms of near death, I had to be reaquanted with this body? This I don't know.

 

But as far as the SB discription goes of the womb goes, it is very real, as explained, to me. Concidering that hole experience was a true replay, I would have to conclude that my impresion of the womb would also be a fact.

 

Hare Krsna,

 

CBR

[theist]

Those partial life reviews where everything seemed to recorded on a tape made a profound impression on me in my day to day life. It is exactly like this body that I now identify with is simply a projected image like a character in a movie along with all the other surrounding associated images and their interactions moving long on the ethereal screen A tape far more subtle than 32 mm to be sure.

 

It feels like if I could just stop identifying with this character known here as theist and elsewhere with different names it would all still play out without me. The character would still go on until it's death with me even being conscious of it.

 

Curious stuff, now back to the sac.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Those partial life reviews where everything seemed to recorded on a tape made a profound impression on me in my day to day life. It is exactly like this body that I now identify with is simply a projected image like a character in a movie along with all the other surrounding associated images and their interactions moving long on the ethereal screen A tape far more subtle than 32 mm to be sure.

 

It feels like if I could just stop identifying with this character known here as theist and elsewhere with different names it would all still play out without me. The character would still go on until it's death with me even being conscious of it.

 

Curious stuff, now back to the sac.

 

Interesting, to be sure. These experiances keep us going/enthused on our paths back to Godhead.

 

I didn't think you ever slept, 11,000 post and still posting, He keeps going and going and going. He is the energizer Theist.

 

Just fun, love you dude/dudette.

 

Hare Krsna,

 

CBR

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

If you claim that nothing is verifiable by direct experience and faith is all we've got then you are rejecting our siddhanta which lists three legitimate methods for aquiring knowledge: shabda, pratyaksa, and anumana.

 

This is exactly why I used the parenthetical qualifier regarding scientific rigor. I was not referring to spiritual inquiries.

 

As for measuring the distance from the Earth to the Moon, of course, there are many scientific methods by which this may be done (though the only way to get a single number is to take an average since the moon's orbit around the earth is not circular, but elliptical--the distance is constantly changing).

 

Any piece of scientific data, however, is only useful (in the scientific sense) if provided along with a margin of error--that is to say, science almost *never* states anything as absolute truth--rather it estimates the degree of certainty with which a statement can be made. Of course, the margin of error itself is an estimate, and it's always a possibility that the error is 100% or more.

 

One of my fields of interest (personal, not professional) is climate science. I mentioned not long ago one of two different instances of erroneous data being collected. One was in relation to the Argos array of ocean sensors. The temperature data was found to be invalid due to miscalibration. The data indicated that the oceans were *cooling* not warming.

 

The second instance relates to satelite weather data. Since the mid-1990's, satelite data has been used to measure the temperature of the upper atmosphere (where we previously only had weather balloon data). This data also failed to show the warming in the upper atmosphere that was expected from the climate models. After some investigation, the data were "corrected" and the desired result was obtained. Obviously, the global-warming skeptics jumped on this.

[theist]

 

Interesting, to be sure. These experiances keep us going/enthused on our paths back to Godhead.

 

I didn't think you ever slept, 11,000 post and still posting, He keeps going and going and going. He is the energizer Theist.

 

Just fun, love you dude/dudette.

 

Hare Krsna,

 

CBR

 

Ha ha. Yes I sleep. I keep posting because this is the only association I have. It is also my only real interest although other things intrude everyday. Fortunately I have been lving on savings so I don't have to go to a regular job. I live far below the so-called poverty line but that is ok I don't desire or require much. When I do work I do it out of my apt. daytrading stocks massage and hyonotherapy. None produce much but taken together I get what I need.

 

The net is also the only avenue I have to reach out to non-devotees on other forums. The fact that we are not this physical body has to be promoted for the common benefit. How can we dare die without having reached out to others not quite so fortunate as ourselves? Can you imagine the scene. We have just been kicked out of our body and are now standing before the higher agents who preside over such things and one of them asks us "You were given so much , why did you not share the gift to help your brothers and sisters?" Even though I don't give a fig for anyone else besides myself I do want to spare myself that humiliation.

 

 

Always remember Krsna. Never forget Krsna. That is the real value of these conversations. Beliefs come and go , are right or wrong, but beliefs will never be enough to see us into transcendence.

 

We try our best to keep the conversation going while anticipating Krsna's mercy.

 

Love you too dude. I am also in a dude body this time around.

[Guest guest]

 

Second, I never said or believed that the speakers or writers of Bhagavatam knew every detail of material existence - but yes, there are many devotees who believe just that.

 

.

 

 

Just thought i put in my two pennies worth ...

 

The Srimad Bhagvat Puran was written by ved Vyas, an incarnation of Puruhottam Naryan and thus being written by GOD himself, there should not be any errors in describing the spiritual or material world.

 

If the translations put up by Theist is correct about the sac, then hmmmmm......

[Guest guest]

 

Just thought i put in my two pennies worth ...

 

The Srimad Bhagvat Puran was written by ved Vyas, an incarnation of Puruhottam Naryan and thus being written by GOD himself, there should not be any errors in describing the spiritual or material world.

 

 

Vyasadeva is a saktyavesa avatar, that means he is a jiva empowered by God to perform a particular task, not an omniscient being.

 

On top of that there is the infuence of time. The integrity of ancient manuscripts have often been compromised by the passage of time. There are variations between existing manuscripts of many Puranas, even Srimad Bhagavatam. I am talking about quite significant differences, not a mere skipped verse. Some Puranas were even reconstructed by scholars from many disjointed surviving manuscripts.

 

The faith of many devotees in absolute correctness of the existing texts is very much like the faith of Christians that King James Bible is the actual Word of God.

[Guest guest]

SB 1.5.11: On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest.

 

mahak: This kinda stuff has never bothered me nor tested my faith. I knew folks who left forever in a huff over the moon thing, but why bother, why get all excited, I never knew why all the excitement. especially in regard to this fundamental and rudimentary verse.

 

Srimad bhagvatam is not a study in biomass of entities in wombs, nor does it pretend to be. Going back into a womb is not our best fate, and bhagavatam emphasizes this by painting a picture of how disturbing this existance is. Bhagavatam is not discussing anything of a molecular or genetic nature, it is using descriptives that gross a person out to get him to concentrate on the whole development of bhakti yoga issue.

 

We dont call vedavyasa a liar or one who doesnt know scientific fact. He spins tales in accordance to the above verse. This verse should be carefully read and studied when these controversies arise.

 

I mean, lets get molecular here, where there is no smell at all, and there is no wetness, no worms, no primodial ooze. Just crystaline forms, electric impulse, etc. Lets look at what we are made of outside the womb, all the guts and minimata horrors that spew forth daily. Lets analyze the dead oceans and the unbreathable air and the food made from cannibalistic gene splicing (yeah, lettuce has human cells applied to enhance growth). So? Whats the problem? Its the deal we made when we decided that we are the supreme lord worthy of all our service (and yours, too, BTW). We want the ocean of nectar, but we get primodial bio-spew.

 

Theist question is valid, because if one gets all wrapped up in accepting things without analysis, this is fanaticism. Accepting things by the process of discerning the truth, becoming swan-like in that one accepts what is good and rejects what is unnecessary, this is an important issue.

 

I accept that the moon is where it is, up there. The planetary map of the 5th canto is just as accurate as anything the scientist has made, because they have only gone about 200 miles up, and cannot stay there, spend all our resources to maintain crashing, exploding vehicles to get us 200 miles up. Not much of a rack to hang your hat on.

 

This issue is about errors in shastra. This is not a problem, because the disclaimer is put on the package, right in front, where everyone can read. "Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest." Sri Krsnadas Kaviraja is similiarly humble in his presentation.

 

The only difference between shastra and science is that only science claims to be free from imperfection. But things are never what they seem. The moon thing is logical, to me, and I have no trouble with the maps of 5th canto (though I have made better ones using string theory and multiverse theory).

 

I used to live in opihikau, at the base of a huge active volcano. Not far from babhru das, our professor on these forums. There was a long straight road from mountaintop to ocean. Ocean is down, mountain is up. Right? Science? Physics? So, why when I drove downhill to my 100 acres, I had to use the accelerator, and when I was going to hilo, uphill to the highway to get me there, I coasted, even rode the brakes. Geotherms? Magma produced magnetic anomaly? Dont matter, I coast uphill and accelerate downhill, end of story. See, when science runs into the problem of inconsistancy, they just alter their position by piling more stuff to hide the4 fact that they have imperfections. But I leave this topic by quoting as I heard from Sriula Prabhupada. "I am not perfect, I am an old man. What I have received from my Guru Maharaja, and what I give in his service, is perfect. This is my perfection." The cited verse separates what is needed for perfection. Not accurate descriptions of planetary placement or substances in bio-spew, even though these are mentioned in Bhagavatam. But the literature of shastra is a "different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization."

 

hare krsna, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Srimad Bhagavatam 3.31.5

 

In the Markandeya Purana it is said that in the intestine of the mother the umbilical cord, which is known as apyayani, joins the mother to the abdomen of the child, and through this passage the child within the womb accepts the mother's assimilated foodstuff. In this way the child is fed by the mother's intestine within the womb and grows from day to day.

The statement of the Markandeya Purana about the child's situation within the womb is exactly corroborated by modern medical science, and thus the authority of the puranas cannot be disproved, as is sometimes attempted by the Mayavadi philosophers.

[theist]

 

Just thought i put in my two pennies worth ...

 

The Srimad Bhagvat Puran was written by ved Vyas, an incarnation of Puruhottam Naryan and thus being written by GOD himself, there should not be any errors in describing the spiritual or material world.

 

If the translations put up by Theist is correct about the sac, then hmmmmm......

 

"Things that make us go hmmm..." This is good because hmmm.. is the sound of thoughtfullness taking place. So say there is something lacking in the womb description, like others have already said the Bhagavatam was never meant as a medical text.

 

Now if we think that one mistake cancels out the legitamacy and potency of the transcendental knowledge contained in the Bhagavatam then we have not even caught a glimpse of what that transcendental knowledge really is.

 

Transcendental knowledge stands on it's own strength and cannot be added to or subtracted from by mundane facts. This sac business is irrelevant. No need to hide our heads in the sand about it it simply is not pertient.

 

I brought this up to highlight our need to play to our strengths. When discussing these sot of things let the materialist hold onto their conceptions of where th moon is etc. It matters not. Even admit that the views of the times sometimes need adjusting when new information arrives. It is a non issue.

 

But birth death old age and disease are not non-issues. The fact that we are not these bodies but rather parts of the Supreme Lord is the vital knowledge that Vaisnavas using the vastly superior Indian texts need to distribute for the benefit of others.