If you ever get money, print books

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada often spoke about the instructions of his Guru Maharaja to preach and publish Krsna-conscious literature. Srila Prabhupada was especially fond of mentioning the story of how he received his most important instructions from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura at Sri Radha-kunda. Srila Prabhupada recalled that at the time Srila Bhaktisiddhanta was feeling some dissatisfaction in regard to some disciples competing over who would live in which rooms in the newly constructed temple in Calcutta.

 

While walking along the banks of Radha-kunda, the place of the most intimate pastimes of Sri Sri Radha-Govinda, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura revealed his mind. "I think it would be better to sell this temple and the marble and print books." Then, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura turned to Srila Prabhupada and said, "If you ever get money, print books."

-

 

It was not a simple instruction to print books. It was also - and perhaps most importantly - the instruction about money and spiritual institutions. In some way it was money that ruined the cooperative spirit among GM devotees. The same is true about our modern times and ISKCON.

[Guruvani]

 

Srila Prabhupada often spoke about the instructions of his Guru Maharaja to preach and publish Krsna-conscious literature. Srila Prabhupada was especially fond of mentioning the story of how he received his most important instructions from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura at Sri Radha-kunda. Srila Prabhupada recalled that at the time Srila Bhaktisiddhanta was feeling some dissatisfaction in regard to some disciples competing over who would live in which rooms in the newly constructed temple in Calcutta.

 

While walking along the banks of Radha-kunda, the place of the most intimate pastimes of Sri Sri Radha-Govinda, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura revealed his mind. "I think it would be better to sell this temple and the marble and print books." Then, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura turned to Srila Prabhupada and said, "If you ever get money, print books."

-

 

It was not a simple instruction to print books. It was also - and perhaps most importantly - the instruction about money and spiritual institutions. In some way it was money that ruined the cooperative spirit among GM devotees. The same is true about our modern times and ISKCON.

 

Well, I think that also says something about the physical succession vadis and how important the books are.

 

If physical succession is the real substance and the real principle, then what in the hell is this "print books" idea all about?

 

Apparently, Srila Saraswati Thakur felt that books were the single most important feature of distributing Krishna consciousness all over the world.

 

Books are the basis is what we can take away from this topic.

 

More important than temples, gurus and formality is that the human race get real knowledge about Krishna and the process of devotional service; hearing and chanting.

 

Reading the books is hearing from the lips of the pure devotees.

 

Now, that is what I am talkin' about!!!!!

[AncientMariner]

 

Well, I think that also says something about the physical succession vadis and how important the books are.

 

If physical succession is the real substance and the real principle, then what in the hell is this "print books" idea all about?

 

Apparently, Srila Saraswati Thakur felt that books were the single most important feature of distributing Krishna consciousness all over the world.

 

Books are the basis is what we can take away from this topic.

 

More important than temples, gurus and formality is that the human race get real knowledge about Krishna and the process of devotional service; hearing and chanting.

 

Reading the books is hearing from the lips of the pure devotees.

 

Now, that is what I am talkin' about!!!!!

 

 

Gotta admit, even though that is not the popular way to see things that is the way I see it too.

[Guest guest]

 

Well, I think that also says something about the physical succession vadis and how important the books are.

 

If physical succession is the real substance and the real principle, then what in the hell is this "print books" idea all about?

 

You ritviks are SO monothematic

 

In order to understand this instruction ("If you ever get money, print books") you need to understand the context of the conversation.

 

The context of the conversation is: "How money ruined Gaudiya Matha" and the instruction seems to be primarily how to use money safely while operating a spiritual movement or institution. Instead of building palatial temples for the disciples to fight over, print books. Seems like a very simple and elegant solution.

[AncientMariner]

 

You ritviks are SO monothematic

 

In order to understand this instruction ("If you ever get money, print books") you need to understand the context of the conversation.

 

The context of the conversation is: "How money ruined Gaudiya Matha" and the instruction seems to be primarily how to use money safely while operating a spiritual movement or institution. Instead of building palatial temples for the disciples to fight over, print books. Seems like a very simple and elegant solution.

 

Gotta admit that is a fair point but you gotta agree with this don't ya "More important than temples, gurus and formality is that the human race get real knowledge about Krishna and the process of devotional service; hearing and chanting." I can't help but agree with that statement myself.

[Guruvani]

 

You ritviks are SO monothematic

 

In order to understand this instruction ("If you ever get money, print books") you need to understand the context of the conversation.

 

The context of the conversation is: "How money ruined Gaudiya Matha" and the instruction seems to be primarily how to use money safely while operating a spiritual movement or institution. Instead of building palatial temples for the disciples to fight over, print books. Seems like a very simple and elegant solution.

 

i didn't see anybody mention anything about ritvik but you.

 

We didn't say ritvik.

 

If you really take an objective view of the "print books" idea, it is quite obvious that these acharyas felt that printing books and getting them in the hands of suffering souls was the best panacea for the plight of mankind.

 

Ritvik?

Who said anything about ritvik?

 

Nobody needs any damn ritvik to be connected to Srila Prabhupada.

You can connect to Srila Prabhupada through his books, you don't need any damn ritvik.

 

Ritvik is an ISKCON device.

Since ISKCON is now defunct, the ritvik system isn't necessary.

 

What is necessary is that people of the world understand the science of Krishna consciousness.

 

They don't need any damn ritvik for that.

 

the books can get the job done.

[Guest guest]

 

you gotta agree with this don't ya "More important than temples, gurus and formality is that the human race get real knowledge about Krishna and the process of devotional service; hearing and chanting." I can't help but agree with that statement myself.

 

I am not sure that books turn people into devotees. Devotees turn people into devotees. Books make pople interested in seeking out the association of devotees but will never - in my opinion - replace the need for direct contact with devotees.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta saw the effects of the printed word delivered to the masses and wanted to use this technique in spreading the movement of Lord Caitanya worldwide - just like communists and national socialists rapidly spread their ideas all over Europe thanks to their printing presses.

 

Today books are falling out of favor in society. Today it is internet and TV. As a movement we are no longer progressive. We are stuck in the past, regurgitating old ideas and arguing over irrelevant subtelties.

[Guest guest]

 

What is necessary is that people of the world understand the science of Krishna consciousness.

 

They don't need any damn ritvik for that.

 

the books can get the job done.

 

If the books alone can get the job done, HOW COME THE JOB IS NOT DONE after distributing millions and millions of books?

 

Think, for crying out loud!

[bhaktatraveler]

 

If the books alone can get the job done, HOW COME THE JOB IS NOT DONE after distributing millions and millions of books?

 

Think, for crying out loud!

 

 

 

Free will of the individual and changed books with no potency!

 

I got BG before I ever met one devotee and was cent per cent convinced months before entering ISKCON and meeting that first devotee. Yes, original books make devotees if they want, it is free will.

 

Yes, job is not done! Let us print more 'original' books and distribute profusely. Someone out there is waiting and wanting. We need to do our job.

 

Hare Krsna,

 

CBR

[Guest guest]

 

Free will of the individual and changed books with no potency!

 

LOL! whatever...

[Guest guest]

Yeah well, you can rely on someone with an agenda to make a loaded point. Either it's ritviks, or "original books", or Narayana Maharaja, or poison, or "we fell from Goloka", or something else entirely.

 

Maybe when devotees can liberate themselves from their strongly-held conceptions about some issues can any genuine discussions about spiritual issues take place. The soul is free - Be Free!

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Yeah well, you can rely on someone with an agenda to make a loaded point. Either it's ritviks, or "original books", or Narayana Maharaja, or poison, or "we fell from Goloka", or something else entirely.

 

Maybe when devotees can liberate themselves from their strongly-held conceptions about some issues can any genuine discussions about spiritual issues take place. The soul is free - Be Free!

 

Agenda? I have no agenda that has been put forward yet.

 

A point was raised by my dear friend Guruvani and I happen to agree hole heartedly with him that books are the bases.

 

Many devotees have long, wonderful stories about how they came to Krsna. Mine is simple and short, I got Bhagavad-gita in a book store and was convinced solely by the potency of Srila Prabhupada's words. Sweet and simple, a book. Of the most divine nature. The changes to that book(BG) has altered the divinity of it and redered the effect to be a level of impotency. This is a natural fact, not my agenda.

 

No agenda, be free, while you can, exersize your will.

 

Hare Krsna.

 

CBR

[Guest guest]

 

I got Bhagavad-gita in a book store and was convinced solely by the potency of Srila Prabhupada's words. Sweet and simple, a book. Of the most divine nature. The changes to that book(BG) has altered the divinity of it and redered the effect to be a level of impotency. This is a natural fact, not my agenda.

 

 

That is merely your opinion, not a natural fact. I see people become interested in KC thanks to those supposedly "impotent" and "changed" books almost every day.

 

You are merely fabricating an excuse to explain why after distributing many millions of books the world is barely conscious of our movement's existence let alone inudated with hari-kirtana. Prabhupada did not just send books to other countries - he also sent devotees to provide example, inspiration and association for the interested people.

[suchandra]

 

the books can get the job done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada: Until these world leaders read my books and take to this Vedic culture, what kind of civilization will they have? Dog race. Horse race. They want this. Rat race. That's all. Their civilization is a race. Dog race. Horse race. Rat race. The citizens do not know anything about this great science of the soul. Modern civilization means that people are simply becoming rascals, animals. Of course, strictly speaking, theirs is a motor race. They have advanced beyond the common dog race to a motor race. But if a doggish person is running not on four legs but on four wheels, does that mean he is not a dog? It is the same race. The same race--whether by running on four legs or on four wheels. The race is the same, and the dog is the same.

So this civilization is a glorified dog race. Modern man does not know, "I may feel proud of racing around in a car, but is there any value if I do not understand the meaning of my life?" Hmm? So this is going on. A big, big highway for dog racing--that is modern civilization.

And when rascal yogis and swamis present their version of the Vedic culture, they say something like, "By this transcendental meditation you will keep your dog race very nice." In reality, these yogis and swamis are bewildered by this materialistic civilization. "Oh, very nice. It is very nice." That's all. In Bhagavad-gita Krishna describes such personalities. Mohitam nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam: "Bewildered by the modes of material nature, fools and rascals do not know Me, who am above the modes and inexhaustible." The modern world is filled with such mudhas, rascals. So, again, the only hope is that you distribute my books as much as possible.

In London there is a big stadium for dog racing. Do you know that? Many people go to see the dogs race.

Disciple: In America dog racing is very popular, as well. Here in Denver, people love to go.

Srila Prabhupada: To the dog race? [Laughter.]

Disciple: We've gone there, too, Srila Prabhupada, to distribute your books.

Srila Prabhupada: In Australia, also--Sydney--oh, they are very fond of dog racing. Many men take their big dogs for racing.

(morning walk in Denver, Colorado, on June 28, 1975)

[bhaktatraveler]

Jai Srila Prabhupada !!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada: Until these world leaders read my books and take to this Vedic culture, what kind of civilization will they have? Dog race. Horse race. They want this. Rat race. That's all. Their civilization is a race. Dog race. Horse race. Rat race. The citizens do not know anything about this great science of the soul. Modern civilization means that people are simply becoming rascals, animals. Of course, strictly speaking, theirs is a motor race. They have advanced beyond the common dog race to a motor race. But if a doggish person is running not on four legs but on four wheels, does that mean he is not a dog? It is the same race. The same race--whether by running on four legs or on four wheels. The race is the same, and the dog is the same.

So this civilization is a glorified dog race. Modern man does not know, "I may feel proud of racing around in a car, but is there any value if I do not understand the meaning of my life?" Hmm? So this is going on. A big, big highway for dog racing--that is modern civilization.

And when rascal yogis and swamis present their version of the Vedic culture, they say something like, "By this transcendental meditation you will keep your dog race very nice." In reality, these yogis and swamis are bewildered by this materialistic civilization. "Oh, very nice. It is very nice." That's all. In Bhagavad-gita Krishna describes such personalities. Mohitam nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam: "Bewildered by the modes of material nature, fools and rascals do not know Me, who am above the modes and inexhaustible." The modern world is filled with such mudhas, rascals. So, again, the only hope is that you distribute my books as much as possible.

In London there is a big stadium for dog racing. Do you know that? Many people go to see the dogs race.

Disciple: In America dog racing is very popular, as well. Here in Denver, people love to go.

Srila Prabhupada: To the dog race? [Laughter.]

Disciple: We've gone there, too, Srila Prabhupada, to distribute your books.

Srila Prabhupada: In Australia, also--Sydney--oh, they are very fond of dog racing. Many men take their big dogs for racing.

(morning walk in Denver, Colorado, on June 28, 1975)

[Guest guest]

Disagree. Srila Prabhupada opened 108 temples. Maybe, he should have just distributed books!

 

 

Gotta admit that is a fair point but you gotta agree with this don't ya "More important than temples, gurus and formality is that the human race get real knowledge about Krishna and the process of devotional service; hearing and chanting." I can't help but agree with that statement myself.

[Guest guest]

Lowborn starts a rather nice topic and guess what ... the ritviks come barging in about why Gurus are not necessary.

 

You ritviks and book-vadis, get a life! Does your blind hatred for everything that doesn't conform to your warped vision keep you from using your intelligence? .... If books are enough, why did Srila Prabhupada send devotees everywhere to start centers. He should have just shipped books!

 

 

i didn't see anybody mention anything about ritvik but you.

 

We didn't say ritvik.

 

If you really take an objective view of the "print books" idea, it is quite obvious that these acharyas felt that printing books and getting them in the hands of suffering souls was the best panacea for the plight of mankind.

 

Ritvik?

Who said anything about ritvik?

 

Nobody needs any damn ritvik to be connected to Srila Prabhupada.

You can connect to Srila Prabhupada through his books, you don't need any damn ritvik.

 

Ritvik is an ISKCON device.

Since ISKCON is now defunct, the ritvik system isn't necessary.

 

What is necessary is that people of the world understand the science of Krishna consciousness.

 

They don't need any damn ritvik for that.

 

the books can get the job done.

[Guest guest]

Caturbahu prabhu ... one of those rare ritviks who applies Vaisnava etiquettes in his life inspite of his differences with mainstream ISKCON and who you can actually have a pleasant conversation with and not be insulted. Pleasure to see you back prabhu. Where have you been of late? You're needed here to allow the ritviks folk to have some credibility!

 

 

Agenda? I have no agenda that has been put forward yet.

 

A point was raised by my dear friend Guruvani and I happen to agree hole heartedly with him that books are the bases.

 

Many devotees have long, wonderful stories about how they came to Krsna. Mine is simple and short, I got Bhagavad-gita in a book store and was convinced solely by the potency of Srila Prabhupada's words. Sweet and simple, a book. Of the most divine nature. The changes to that book(BG) has altered the divinity of it and redered the effect to be a level of impotency. This is a natural fact, not my agenda.

 

No agenda, be free, while you can, exersize your will.

 

Hare Krsna.

 

CBR

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Caturbahu prabhu ... one of those rare ritviks who applies Vaisnava etiquettes in his life inspite of his differences with mainstream ISKCON and who you can actually have a pleasant conversation with and not be insulted. Pleasure to see you back prabhu. Where have you been of late? You're needed here to allow the ritviks folk to have some credibility!

 

Hare Krsna Prabhu

 

Thank you for your kind words. Just been watching lately. Not much to say. Its just the books make me warm and fuzzy inside, so I have to support their distribution and printing of the same books that made me a devotee. I do have a problem with post samadhi reediting. I didn't know that I'm now a 'book-vadhi', but I like it. And wear it proudly.

 

As for 'ritvic' conclution, it is not a fix all in and of it's self. It is one part of a hole that the ISKCON mission should be. I do not support 'ritvic' as a movement. Just what to do about initiations after the samadhi of Srila Prabhupada. In ISKCON only, outside is up to the Guru of that mission to make that determination. Just as Srila B R Sridhara Maharaja has done the same as our Guru. If one is wrong, both are. Personally I think these two Godbrothers are the quintessential preminant disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and beyond misstakes.

 

I'm a little suprised to see the word 'credible' and Caturbahu in the same sentence used positivly and not derogatory. Thanks, I try to repeat as I have read and heard from Srila Prabhupada. Though I am a condition/motivated soul. Thanks again.

 

Hare Krsna,

 

CBR

[suchandra]

 

Disagree. Srila Prabhupada opened 108 temples. Maybe, he should have just distributed books!

Thanks to "GuestwhoaddressSuchandra" for this important job of repeating Srila Prabhupada’s teachings to the world about what is actually the real point why Prabhupada came to US in September of 1965. Prabhupada was asked repeatedly, “why do you bring us another religion - we have in US already 9000 registered religions”?

Prabhupada’s simple reply was, Krishna Consciousness is the only religion, because it is not a worldly concoction but directly presenting the words of Krishna without adulteration - Krishna’s teachings like Bhagavad-Gita which are above the four defects of conditioned souls.

In sum, according my understanding and what surely all Vaishnavas stand for - to present to suffering humanity not something defective but the errorless knowledge of vedic wisdom as translated and commented by Srila Prabhupada in his books/lectures/letters, especially when it comes to the central point of any religion – diksa, baptism.

[Guruvani]

There are two kinds of Bhagavat.

One is the book Bhagavat.

One is the person Bhagavat.

 

It's alot harder to forge and fake the book Bhagavat, because we have the Bhagavatam already in the original form and the original translation of Srila Prabhupada.

 

What we also have now is a sundry assortment of fake person Bhagavats who have inflicted immeasurable damage upon the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

Some of these fake person Bhagavats have been from within ISKCON and some have been from outside ISKCON.

 

So, when the movement gets saturated with hundreds of fake person Bhagavats, we can always take shelter of the book Bhagavat and rest assured that we are not being scammed by some fool pretending to be guru.

 

The book Bhagavat is the literary incarnation of the Lord.

It cannot be falsified like these false person Bhagavats.

 

So, at least we have the book Bhagavat and if we have a least one genuine form of Bhagavat we are assured a genuine education in the science of Krishna consciousness.

 

We don't need all these fake person Bhagavats who are out to garner some naive souls to be their disciples and support their jet-set lifestyles of sense enjoyment under the garb of a renunciant.

 

Book Bhagavat won't cheat you.

These fake person Bhagavats will cheat you and have cheated thousands of souls who came to ISKCON on the basis of Srila Prabhupada's books.

[AncientMariner]

 

Disagree. Srila Prabhupada opened 108 temples. Maybe, he should have just distributed books!

 

Gotta admit that is a fair point but I have also seen quotes by Prabhupada and his spiritual master that say in essence they would sell all their temples if they could create one pure devotee. And I have also seen quotes that say sankirtana yajna is more important than building temples in the Kali-yuga or something to that effect. The way I look at it is spiritual societies in the Kali-yuga are always going to eventually become corrupted to some extent but the the books and chanting will live on throughout the Kali-yuga but I could be wrong who knows.

[Guest guest]

I dont think we have touched the "other" primary question of this thread: MONEY, and how is it to be used in a spiritual movement. If we look at the history of Iskcon's problems, money and material power are very much in the center of them all. Many Iskcon sannyasis (especially gurus) lived like royalty which directly led to their falldown. Centralized power, lack of check and balance system, secrecy and lack of accountability were directly linked to the abuses. Yes, we printed books, but even that noble activity was actually aimed at - you guessed it - making MONEY, the good old "lakshmi points".

 

Seems like the essence of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's instruction was lost on us.

[Guest guest]

 

Agenda? I have no agenda that has been put forward yet.

 

A point was raised by my dear friend Guruvani and I happen to agree hole heartedly with him that books are the bases.

 

Many devotees have long, wonderful stories about how they came to Krsna. Mine is simple and short, I got Bhagavad-gita in a book store and was convinced solely by the potency of Srila Prabhupada's words. Sweet and simple, a book. Of the most divine nature. The changes to that book(BG) has altered the divinity of it and redered the effect to be a level of impotency. This is a natural fact, not my agenda.

 

No agenda, be free, while you can, exersize your will.

 

Hare Krsna.

 

CBR

In that case I sincerely apologise if you were articulating your genuine spiritual convictions, which I respect. I was just speaking generally about the tendency of discussions to be sidetracked with issues put forward by those who <i>do</i> have some sort of agenda to push. Evidently you are not one of those and I apologise for assuming that you are. Hari bol.

[suchandra]

 

I dont think we have touched the "other" primary question of this thread: MONEY, and how is it to be used in a spiritual movement. If we look at the history of Iskcon's problems, money and material power are very much in the center of them all. Many Iskcon sannyasis (especially gurus) lived like royalty which directly led to their falldown. Centralized power, lack of check and balance system, secrecy and lack of accountability were directly linked to the abuses. Yes, we printed books, but even that noble activity was actually aimed at - you guessed it - making MONEY, the good old "lakshmi points".

 

Seems like the essence of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's instruction was lost on us.

 

Probably the only solution: "They should remain for good", should be stopped and that the GBC shall consist of devotees who shall each serve an initial three year term.

(DOM 7/28/70)

What automatically results in transparency of bookkeeping because your re-election depends upon quality of work and you have to render an account of all your made decisions.

http://www.krishna.org/dom/dom.pdf