Guru initiation question

[my3]

Lets say Guru of the center only comes to visit few times per year, thus spiritual aspirants don't have a lot of prior contact with that person. Guru initiates whole group with the same mantra, thus not individually.

 

Who is a true Guru. Do you need to develop a special relationship. Or spiritual connection is good enough?

 

What is the correct way to transfer Mantra. Should it be always done one on one. With mantra given based on the individual and not to the whole group?

[theist]

May I suggest that before accepting a guru in physical human form you first come to understandly deeply you already have guru. How is that? First there is Caitya guru in your heart. Then there is Lord Caitanya the universal guru (please referrence my signature quote below). You can beg the maha mantra directly from Him.

You have Srila Prabhupada's books and tapes as your siksa guru. You have more experienced godbrothers/sisters to learn from.

 

The question we must ask is am I taking advantage of the gurus already before me? Do that and there will be no doubt as to who is your guru if you happen to meet him in this bodily life. Don't do that and you will find yourself accepting the person assigned to you zone and appointed to you by some ecclesiastical church commitee. Might as well go accept the Pope.

 

By the grace of Krsna one gets guru and by the grace of guru one gets Krsna. First thing approach Krsna directly and ask Him to reveal His representative to you. That means prayer.

 

Hare Krsna

[AncientMariner]

 

May I suggest that before accepting a guru in physical human form you first come to understandly deeply you already have guru. How is that? First there is Caitya guru in your heart. Then there is Lord Caitanya the universal guru (please referrence my signature quote below). You can beg the maha mantra directly from Him.

You have Srila Prabhupada's books and tapes as your siksa guru. You have more experienced godbrothers/sisters to learn from.

 

The question we must ask is am I taking advantage of the gurus already before me? Do that and there will be no doubt as to who is your guru if you happen to meet him in this bodily life. Don't do that and you will find yourself accepting the person assigned to you zone and appointed to you by some ecclesiastical church commitee. Might as well go accept the Pope.

 

By the grace of Krsna one gets guru and by the grace of guru one gets Krsna. First thing approach Krsna directly and ask Him to reveal His representative to you. That means prayer.

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

Yes, that is the way I look at it too. Well said.

[my3]

Thank you very much for your reply. If I should pray and meditate - should it be on the image of Caitanya guru or Krsna?

[theist]

 

Thank you very much for your reply. If I should pray and meditate - should it be on the image of Caitanya guru or Krsna?

 

Both. Read the statement by Srila Prabhupada at the bottom of my post. It says it all.

[Guest guest]

Please look for a physically present spiritual master for direct instruction.

 

 

Lets say Guru of the center only comes to visit few times per year, thus spiritual aspirants don't have a lot of prior contact with that person. Guru initiates whole group with the same mantra, thus not individually.

 

Who is a true Guru. Do you need to develop a special relationship. Or spiritual connection is good enough?

 

What is the correct way to transfer Mantra. Should it be always done one on one. With mantra given based on the individual and not to the whole group?

[Guest guest]

 

Who is a true Guru. Do you need to develop a special relationship. Or spiritual connection is good enough?

 

What is the correct way to transfer Mantra. Should it be always done one on one. With mantra given based on the individual and not to the whole group?

 

A true guru is a person in whom you have explicit faith that he is qualified to lead you out of this material bondage. If you have doubts, study your guru some more. Do not rush into such things as they are a major comittment in life.

 

What mantra are you talking about here? Gayatri?

[Guest guest]

 

Thank you very much for your reply. If I should pray and meditate - should it be on the image of Caitanya guru or Krsna?

 

Krishna

[my3]

 

A true guru is a person in whom you have explicit faith that he is qualified to lead you out of this material bondage. If you have doubts, study your guru some more. Do not rush into such things as they are a major comittment in life.

 

What mantra are you talking about here? Gayatri?

 

I don't want to go in details about the mantra. But my question is more about who would be considered a true Guru and what would be a proper way to receive mantra from the qualified Guru (if there is a proper way).

[Guruvani]

According to Srila Prabhupada, the siksha guru comes first and then generally becomes the diksha guru later on.

 

First, just try find out what Vaishnava actually inspires you either by his example or by his writings and then try to learn as much as you can about the science of Krishna consciousness.

 

If you learn more about the science of Krishna consciousness from the books of a bygone acharya, then just take advantage of what he has left for posterity and learn all you can about the science of Krishna consciousness primarily from Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, Nectar of Devotion and Teachings of Lord Chaitanya.

 

Don't go shopping for a diksha guru.

 

When Krishna arranges the diksha guru will come to you and be as obvious as the light of day.

 

Don't be guru shopping.

Try to find your natural guru who is teaching you Krishna consciousness.

If learning the science of Krishna consciousness for you is based primarily on books, then just stick to the books until a guru who you absolutely admire and revere becomes available to you.

 

Don't worry about formal diksha.

Formal diksha is not as important as learning the Science of Krishna consciousness.

 

The movement is plagued with a horde of superficial devotees who put too mcuh emphasis on formal gurus and not enough emphasis on actually learning Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

In the camp of Lord Chaitanya, learning Srimad Bhagavatam was always given the premiere importance above and beyond accepting some formal diksha guru.

 

Svarupa Damodar sent the masses of devotees back home with instructions to study Srimad Bhagavatam.

He didn't stress very much this formal diksha which is the latest fad around the Hare Krishna movement.

 

The diksha guru will be as plain as the nose on your face.

 

You don't need to go guru shopping.

Don't get sucked into that fraud deception that can rob you of the chance to learn Srimad Bhagavatam from a self-realized acharya.

 

If any diskha guru minimizes the importance of learning the Bhagavatam of Srila Prabhupada, then run in the other direction as fast as you can.

[Guest guest]

 

I don't want to go in details about the mantra. But my question is more about who would be considered a true Guru and what would be a proper way to receive mantra from the qualified Guru (if there is a proper way).

 

True guru comes in a recognized sampradaya (line of disciplic succession) an he follows it's teachings and standards.

 

The mantras in Vaishnava sampradayas vary a little bit and are usually received on a person to person basis.

[Guest guest]

Dear My3 prabhu,

 

As you may have already seen in other threads, Guruvani has a dangerous tendency to commit Vaisnava aparadha against great Vaisnava Acaryas and other devotees alike.

 

Some of the points he makes don't make sense at all. For example-

 

 

If any diskha guru minimizes the importance of learning the Bhagavatam of Srila Prabhupada, then run in the other direction as fast as you can.

 

Ther are many Vaisnava Acaryas. They're not just limited to ISKCON. So if you approach someone in say, Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math, they may lay more emphasis on their own Acaryas such as H.H Bhakti Sundar Goswami Maharaja or H.H Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Maharaja rather than Srila Prabhupada. It doesn't mean that you should start avoiding them taking Guruvani's advice.

 

 

The movement is plagued with a horde of superficial devotees who put too mcuh emphasis on formal gurus and not enough emphasis on actually learning Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

If the ISKCON movement is indeed in the state he describes, then instead of guiding to you some Guru outside ISKCON (Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math or Srila Narayana Maharaja or Tripurari Maharaja or any of the other maths), he chooses to enare you in such useless politics. Please just ignore this political nonsense.

 

Finally, understanding his agenda should be faily easy from the fact that, while he tries hard to minimize the importance of Diksa gurus, he himself saw the need to take Diksa initiation from Srila Prabhupada!

 

I would suggest that you read Guruvani prabhu's posts for what it's worth but not take anything from it. You have good intentions and I hope the Lord in your heart inspirs you to go looking for the Diksa guru who will also give you the necessary Siksa. Good luck!

[harirasadas]

Many gurus in may levels... you should know gurutattva first, also inquire from puredevotee. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta said in upadesavali, Krsna just take offer from some one who chants one lakh harinam... so... first find who does that... if you want any conection with Krsna...then that devotee must be recogniced by other pure devotes as one of them... and also MUST HAVE the aprovation from his own Guru to accept disciples. If don´t any mantra in any ear, in group or one by one will don´t be suddhanam, nami will not manifest at all. Only one who has Krsna can give Krsna, Only pure devotee has Krsna. Krsna is summited to his pure devotee.

 

Please read The heart of Krsna, Hear of Vaisnava from HDG SBP Puri Mj

Guru makes Krsna Appear in your Heart, Whorship of Sri Guru and The proces of inquiri from HDG Srila Gour Govinda Swami

those books made me sooooooooooo good when i was in same situation of you prabhu...

But most important is to cry... SGGS said Only if you Cry you will have real Guru!

Take the best medicine from best doctor, no any medicin frome any one... carisma, fame, beuty, must be rejected... Pure devotee is described in those books i just mentioned... just desire crying the best medicine and Krsna will appear as Sri Guru.

[my3]

I would like to thank everyone who answered my questions. Thank you very much.

[krsna]

From the article:

 

INITIATION IN THE SPIRITUAL LIFE

by

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada

 

published in

 

Sri Sajjana tosani Vol 26 No 7 (1928)

and republished in

 

The rays of Harmonist, the journal of Sri Gaudya Vedanta Samiti

The bad Preceptor

It would no doubt be highly convenient and helpful to be instructed by a good preceptor who is well versed in the scriptures, in understanding the same.But one should never submit to another to an extent that may furnish a rascal with an opportunity of really doing harm. The bad preceptor is a familiar character. It is inexplicable how those "gurus" who live in open sin contrive nevertheless to retain the unquestioning allegiance of the cultured portion of their disciples.

 

Such being the case, can we blame any person who hesitates to submit unconditionally to a preceptor, whether he is good of bad? It is of course necessary to be quite sure of the bona fides of a person before we accept him even tentatively as our spiritual guide. A perceptor should be a person who appears likely to posseses those qualities that will enable him to improve ou spiritual condition.

Bona fide Preceptor & Willing Disciple

Those and similar thoughts are likely to occur to most persons who have received an english (western)education, when they are asked to accept the help of any particular person as a spiritual preceptor. The literature , science and art of the West, body forth the principle of the liberty of the individual and denounce the mentality that leads one to surrender to a person, however superior, his right of choosing his own course. They inculcate the necessity and high value of having faith in oneself.

But the good preceptor claims our sincere and complete allegiance. The good disciple makes a complete surrender of himself at the feet of the preceptor.

But the submission of the disciple is neither irrational nor blind. It is complete on condtion that the preceptor himself continues to be altogether good.

The disciple retains the right of renouncing his allegiance to the preceptor the moment he is satisfied that the preceptor is a fallible creature like himself. Nor does a good preceptor accept anyone as his disciple unless the latter is prepared to submit to him freely.

A good preceptor is in duty bound to renounce a disciple who is not sincerely willing to follow his instructions fully. If a preceptor accepts as his disciple one who refuses to be wholly guided by him, or if a disciple submits to a preceptor who is not wholly good, such preceptor and such disciple are both of them doomed to fall from their spiritual state.

No one is a good preceptor who has not realized the Absolute. One who has realized the Absolute is saved from the necessity of walking on the worldly path.