maccoy77 Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 In Vaikunta and Goloka there are several animals who have spiritual bodies, but we fall into Material Nature because we wanted to enjoy without Krsna meaning we wanted to be independent of Krsna. So to have these thoughts means we must have been Spiritual Human Bodies in Vaikunta/Goloka and we made a Decision so now we are here, If we have animal bodies in vaikunta i don't think it is possible to question or leave Krsna and fall into material nature because Animals are just animals, without the capacity of a Spirtual Human Nature in Vaikunta. So is there a Chance where we could be animals in the Spiritual Universe ?? Pls any comments ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 The only part of the spiritual world the baddha jivas have been in is the brahmajyoti and the body of MahaVisnu. Yes, you may become an animal in the spiritual world but not unless you are the real maccoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccoy77 Posted May 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 The only part of the spiritual world the baddha jivas have been in is the brahmajyoti and the body of MahaVisnu. Yes, you may become an animal in the spiritual world but not unless you are the real maccoy. What are you saying ?? i dont get you ?.....Pls can anybody explain ? Haribol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 What are you saying ?? i dont get you ?.....Pls can anybody explain ? Haribol Anyone have any thoughts? Could it start again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 What are you saying ?? i dont get you ?.....Pls can anybody explain ? Haribol Beggar-ji is jokingly referencing a long-standing debate between the aspiring Vaishnavas as to whether we (spirit souls--jivas) originated from Goloka (the sweetest Heaven) or whether we came from the brilliant effulgence (Brahman) emanating from the Lord. Some have stated that, ultimately, the answer to this question is inconceivable (acintya). As for the real McCoy, perhaps Beggar implies that each of us has an eternal nature. If your eternal nature is as an animal in Goloka, then that's what you'll be when you return and/or get there. Personally, I think Beggar Prabhu is a Gator in Goloka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pita das Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 In Vaikunta and Goloka there are several animals who have spiritual bodies, but we fall into Material Nature because we wanted to enjoy without Krsna meaning we wanted to be independent of Krsna. So to have these thoughts means we must have been Spiritual Human Bodies in Vaikunta/Goloka and we made a Decision so now we are here, If we have animal bodies in vaikunta i don't think it is possible to question or leave Krsna and fall into material nature because Animals are just animals, without the capacity of a Spirtual Human Nature in Vaikunta. So is there a Chance where we could be animals in the Spiritual Universe ? Animals in the spiritual world are fully Krishna Conscious .They are all devottees even the trees and the blades of grass are all fully Krishna Conscious Animals in the spiritual world are not dull they are as Krishna Conscious as the cowherd boys. We do not fall from Krishna leela we fall from the tata that place which is neither the material or spiritual world but where they meet.At this place we decide to enter either the material or spiritual relems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 I remember reading that jivas who are blades of grass or trees or animals in the Kingdom of God must come to earth to change their rasa to assume a different role in the Kingdom. I can't find that reference but this is perhaps meaningful to the discussion: CC Madhya 19.154p: Goloka VRndAvana is the highest planet in the spiritual world. In order to go to the spiritual world after penetrating the covering of the material universe, one must penetrate Brahma-loka, the spiritual effulgence. Then one can come to the Goloka VRndAvana planet. There are also other planets in the spiritual world, called VaikuNTha planets, and on these planets Lord NArAyaNa is worshiped with awe and veneration. On these planets zAnta-rasa is prevalent, and some of the devotees are also connected with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in dAsya-rasa, the mellow of servitorship. As far as the mellow of fraternity is concerned, in VaikuNTha this rasa is represented by gaurava-sakhya, friendship in awe and veneration. The other fraternity rasa, exhibited as vizrambha (friendship in equality), is found in the Goloka VRndAvana planet. Above that is service to the Lord in vAtsalya-rasa (parental love), and above all is the relationship with the Lord in the mAdhurya-rasa (conjugal love). These five rasas are fully exhibited in the spiritual world in one's relationship with the Lord. Therefore in the spiritual world the bhakti creeper finds its resting place at the lotus feet of KRSNa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pita das Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 I remember reading that jivas who are blades of grass or trees or animals in the Kingdom of God must come to earth to change their rasa to assume a different role in the Kingdom. The demigods pray to take birth on the Earth planet so they can easlily take up devotion service as the Earth is not such a distraction as the opulence of the heavenlt planets. We have our eternal relationship with Krishna in the spiritual world of which the Lord is fully aware of . The liberated devottees of Gokola Vrindaban only throught is for the pleasure and service to Krishna and they are all there prepareing for the Pleasure Pastimes of Shree Shree Radha Krishna is so many wonderful ways . Sometimes Krishna may ask His devottee to accompany Him when He appears in the material world as His assoicate but once one is fixed in service in Gokula they never loose that service they are eternally fixed . Srila Prabhupada used to tell us that the rasa mandala is a very big circle. Meaning by the mercy of Lord Chaitanya ,Guru and Gouranga we may be able to reach that perfection. There are many parrots and peacock that are able to observe the pastimes of Radha and Krishna chanting thier divine quailties in the spiritual world . A Gokula devottee has no sperate desire other than the pleasure of Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Do we already have an eternal identity (unchangeable) that we realise, or do we develop one as we progress do you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 uh oh ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahak Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 We should concern ourselves with the question "Why are we animals on earth/martyaloka". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I remember reading that jivas who are blades of grass or trees or animals in the Kingdom of God must come to earth to change their rasa to assume a different role in the Kingdom. Why would the material world give more facility in that regard then the spiritual world? If it is true that our spiritual growth does not stop in the spiritual world and is essentially unlimited, why could we not change our rasa while in the spiritual sky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 We should concern ourselves with the question "Why are we animals on earth/martyaloka". are you sure we are that evolved? maybe we are more like mold or bacteria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Why would the material world give more facility in that regard then the spiritual world? If it is true that our spiritual growth does not stop in the spiritual world and is essentially unlimited, why could we not change our rasa while in the spiritual sky? I thought them perfected beings in the spiritual world could take any form they desired? Also, we have to consider that the land, the rivers and trees etc, in Goloka are manifested by Yogamaya Devi. The grass and such could be just manifesting off of Yogamaya and not jiva souls. I don't have a quote right off, but I do remember reading something about that the land and the evironmental display of Goloka was manifested by Yogamaya Devi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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