Guruvani Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Srila Prabhupada had big plans. Too bad we cant even help ourselves, let alone helping the world live better. As to natural divisions already there. What on earth is natural about sannyasis living and acting like kings? It is a total perversion of the varnashram system. Sannyasis living in Mathas and Mandiras for the sake of preaching and training devotees is not "living and acting like kings". I think your representation of such is a little extreme. There are Swamis living in opulent temples all over India and the world. It's not just an ISKCON phenomenon. Maybe you should revisit Srila Rupa Goswami's idea about yukta-vairagya. Real renunciating is not to walk the forest and streets begging. Real renunciation is finding ways to engage all the achievements of human society in the service of Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 These sannyasis that you rightly complain of are the very same personalities that would be instrumental in establishing the offical varnas for the rest of the organizations. Does that not spell increased corruption and chaos? That is precisely why these people have been opposing varnashrama implementation from day one! A sannyasi living a simple, austere life with no private money, no material power and control? Perish the thought! LOL! There is no NEED anymore for exceptions to rules governing sannyasa. They are holding on to power and opulence because this is all they have... no substance. The change will come from the rank and file devotees demanding it. The leaders have PROVEN to be incapable of reform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Maybe you should revisit Srila Rupa Goswami's idea about yukta-vairagya. Real renunciating is not to walk the forest and streets begging. Real renunciation for a sannyasi is also not running businesses or refusing to fill out financial disclosure forms. I am not saying that all Iskcon sannyasis are bogus - far from that. It is the crooked ones who give the entire group a bad name. Real renunciation is: let me give up material power so I can attend to the spiritual side of life undisturbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 There is no NEED anymore for exceptions to rules governing sannyasa. They are holding on to power and opulence because this is all they have... no substance. The change will come from the rank and file devotees demanding it. The leaders have PROVEN to be incapable of reform. The change will come when the rank and file devotees learn to ignore these bozos and start thinking for themselves. But they are mostly brainwashed into thinking Krsna will only enlighten a soul who is a "member in good standing within iskcon" and so they deserve what they get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Real renunciation for a sannyasi is also not running businesses or refusing to fill out financial disclosure forms. I am not saying that all Iskcon sannyasis are bogus - far from that. It is the crooked ones who give the entire group a bad name. Real renunciation is: let me give up material power so I can attend to the spiritual side of life undisturbed. No doubt, there is plenty of nonsense mentality and activity going on in the name of sannyasa. Personally, I don't go for the stationary sannyasa who gets too cozy in a mandira and garnering too much prestige and position. But, if they live very austerely in a Matha or Mandir and actually tend to the spiritual needs of a community, then I don't object to that. Problem is that they get spoiled, arrogant and stuck in the neophtye platform when they get too cozy in a temple. No doubt, the ISKCON model needs a facelift and a makeover. ISKCON sannyasis are for the most part stifled in their self-realization with the pampering and prestige they enjoy as the "spiritual leader" of a temple community. My life is torture. I wish the leaders of ISKCON could experience the torture and turmoil they have inflicted upon the majority of devotess that have been alienated from ISKCON due to their personal ambitions and narrow vision. When I joined ISKCON I came with the idea that I was giving my whole life to ISKCON. The GBC and ISKCON gurus prevented me from doing that. The hatred an enmity around the Krishna consciousness movement is not an accident. Something went very wrong to create the mess that is ISKCON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 When I joined ISKCON I came with the idea that I was giving my whole life to ISKCON. The GBC and ISKCON gurus prevented me from doing that. The hatred an enmity around the Krishna consciousness movement is not an accident. Something went very wrong to create the mess that is ISKCON. It is easy to blame just the selected few individuals, but you are right - it is primarily a failure of leadership. Yet I think some part of the responsibility for this mess is with us all - we were naive neophytes, often complacent when faced with challenges, not willing to fight for what our conscience was telling us was right. But we should not give up the fight now. I feel it is a critical time. Time for the revolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 It is easy to blame just the selected few individuals, but you are right - it is primarily a failure of leadership. Yet I think some part of the responsibility for this mess is with us all - we were naive neophytes, often complacent when faced with challenges, not willing to fight for what our conscience was telling us was right. But we should not give up the fight now. I feel it is a critical time. Time for the revolution I don't know who you are or where you were during the first few years after the passing of Srila Prabhupada, but I know for sure that the rank and file devotees were powerless to do anything about how the 11 ritviks bamboozled the GBC into becoming zonal gurus whilst the rank-and-file devotees stood by helpless and wathced ISKCON go down the toilet. I know better. The entire and complete responsibility rests on the 11 ritivks who strongarmed the GBC into endorsing then as zonal gurus. The ISKCON leadership is 100% liable for all the atrocities in ISKCON. I don't accept one iota of blame for how the GBC and the zonal gurus turned ISKCON into wasteland. I was there. I saw the whole nightmare unfold. Don't feed me this crap about all of us having the blame. The blame goes 100% on the 11 ritiviks who bullied the GBC into allowing them to be bogus zonal gurus. I know for sure, even the GBC is not as much to blame as these 11 ritviks who strongarmed the GBC into going along with their zonal guru nonsense. these 11 ritviks dominated the GBC and overpowered them. The most trusted and empowered disciples of Srila Prabhupada destroyed ISKCON and destroyed the lives of thousands of devotees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 The most trusted and empowered disciples of Srila Prabhupada destroyed ISKCON and destroyed the lives of thousands of devotees. The leaders are nothing without their henchmen and followers. It was not just the 11. It was also scores of various other corrupt Iskcon leaders - dont make me quote their names as they are unworthy of our memory - who lied, cheated and abused rank and file devotees. Some were so rotten to the core they ended up very, very badly - like the one whose head was blown of with a shotgun blast. Others went back to their rotten lives they had before they "joined"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 The leaders are nothing without their henchmen and followers. It was not just the 11. It was also scores of various other corrupt Iskcon leaders - dont make me quote their names as they are unworthy of our memory - who lied, cheated and abused rank and file devotees. Some were so rotten to the core they ended up very, very badly - like the one whose head was blown of with a shotgun blast. Others went back to their rotten lives they had before they "joined"... who got his head blown off? that one must have gotten past me.... There were puppets of the big guns, but they were nothing without the big guns. We know who there powerbrokers were. Tamal Kirtanananda Bhagavan Bhavananda Hansadutta.... even some of the "gurus" like Ramesvar and jayatirtha were along for the ride. Hridayananda was just along for the ride. The destruction of ISKCON rested in the hands of about 5 main men who weilded their weight to get what they wanted. the rest of them were just along for the ride.... Ramesvar orginally protested the zonal guru scheme but he was smashed by Tamal and the other leaders of the conspiracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Bolo Gaura Hari Bol! Meditating on those pinheads is ultimately a waste of time, a distraction, Maya's planned diversion for those, including myself, who subtly wanted to be cheated by the Fab 11. Venting the frustration is helpful, just hoping we can start implementing solutions regardless and in spite of what any fallen Kanisthas are up to. They want their victims, and we can preach at them and their victims til we are out of breath, those victims will just look at us like we have 10 heads, and go follow the latest Charismatic Idol anyway, so I suggest we dig into the Scriptures, keep fellowship with other serious disciples, and perhaps be blessed to enjoy turning a few people on to the real thing. For me, each moment of attention given to their dog and pony show could be better spent, and until I am more advanced, I just see giving attention to them as feeding them, and doing exactly what they want me to do, which is not be productively creating the transcendental alternative to ACTUALLY counter their nonsense here in the material world and ACTUALLY save some souls. Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted May 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Prabhupada used to tell the allegory that once a crocodile invited a monkey in a tree to come and ride on his back. The foolish monkey jumped down from the tree and soon found himself clinging to the crocodile's back in the middle of the river. The monkey asked the crocodile, "Where are we going?" The crocodile replied, "I'm going to take you home, where my wife will cut out your heart and we will eat you for lunch!" The monkey replied, "But I left my heart back on shore in the tree. Will you please let me get it?" The crocodile thought this was a good proposal and allowed the monkey to touch shore. But the monkey jumped into his tree and refused to accept further invitations from the crocodile. The moral of this story: Watch out whom you give your heart or it is not wise to pick a quarrel with a crocodile while living in the jurisdiction of the water. Sometimes ex-disciples used to say, ISKCON is not anymore Prabhupada's original movement, there're people controlling this movement who want power and in order to reach that goal change ISKCON. Inflitrating a religion and changing it into something else seems to have been a topic since long ago. In Leviticus 25:44-45 (1400 BC) it says: "By our jokes and by our attacks we will render their priests ridiculous and eventually odious, their religion as ridiculous, as odious, as their priests. We shall become masters of their souls, because our pious attachment to our religion will prove to them they shall be our possession." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 So how can we 'fall' from a fallen position? We are all conditioned by the 3 modes of nature and 4 defects of material life, are we not all very very fallen souls? Who has actually risen to the transcendental position? And then how can one 'fall' from the pure state of transcendence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted May 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 So how can we 'fall' from a fallen position? We are all conditioned by the 3 modes of nature and 4 defects of material life, are we not all very very fallen souls? We fall from a position when we're artificially taking a position which doesnt come up with our qualification. However, in a varnashram situation you cant fall, because sudra, vaisya, etc. all are engaged in serving Krishna and Krishna says that he accepts devotional service from all varnas without favoring any varna or ashrama. Chapter 9. The Most Confidential Knowledge TEXT 32 O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth--women, vaisyas [merchants], as well as sudras [workers]--can approach the supreme destination. PURPORT It is clearly declared here by the Supreme Lord that in devotional service there is no distinction between the lower or higher classes of people. In the material conception of life, there are such divisions, but for a person engaged in transcendental devotional service to the Lord, there are not. Everyone is eligible for the supreme destination. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that even the lowest, who are called candalas (dog-eaters), can be elevated by association with a pure devotee. Therefore devotional service and guidance of a pure devotee are so strong that there is no discrimination between the lower and higher classes of men; anyone can take to it. The most simple man taking center of the pure devotee can be purified by proper guidance. According to the different modes of material nature, men are classified in the mode of goodness (brahmanas), the mode of passion (ksatriyas, or administrators), the mixed modes of passion and ignorance (vaisyas, or merchants), and the mode of ignorance (sudras, or workers). Those lower than them are called candalas, and they are born in sinful families. Generally, those who are born in sinful families are not accepted by the higher classes. But the process of devotional service and the pure devotee of the Supreme God are so strong that all the lower classes can attain the highest perfection of life. This is possible only when one takes center of Krsna. One has to take center completely of Krsna. Then one can become much greater than great jnanis and yogis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedesu Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Originally Posted by krsnaSo how can we 'fall' from a fallen position? We are all conditioned by the 3 modes of nature and 4 defects of material life, are we not all very very fallen souls? Christians to this when they quote the Bible "For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God." They use this to justify continued sinful activity based upon the premise that they are "saved" through their faith in Jesus and that everyone is equally sinful and fallen. Individually, we should think of ourselves as most fallen. Still, when dealing with other devotees, we shouldn't lump everyone into the same category. Sastra advises that there are 3 gradations of devotees: kanistha, madhyama, and uttama. And within those 3 divisions, there are gradations as well, such as kanistha kanistha, uttama kanistha, kanistha madhyama, madhyama madhyama, uttama madhyama, and so on. We love to glorify Srila Prabhupada for spreading Hare Krsna and love of God around the globe, yet would it not be an insult at his lotus feet to assume that he was unable to create "fixed up" devotees? Devotees at or approaching the madhyama stage and beyond? So, if someone falls from that stage, it is a falldown. Bharat Maharaja fell from the stage of bhava (although that was an instructive pastime for aspiring sadhakas.) Out of humility, one may consider himself most fallen, but one should be careful not to make the mistake of projecting that fallen status upon everyone else. I am a sub-kanistha at best, but I recognize that there are many many sincere sadhakas who are madhyama adhikaris. If I assume that everyone else is fallen like me, then that is not a very humble position to take, but instead my own false ego projecting itself on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted May 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Christians to this when they quote the Bible "For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God." They use this to justify continued sinful activity based upon the premise that they are "saved" through their faith in Jesus and that everyone is equally sinful and fallen. Individually, we should think of ourselves as most fallen. Still, when dealing with other devotees, we shouldn't lump everyone into the same category. Sastra advises that there are 3 gradations of devotees: kanistha, madhyama, and uttama. And within those 3 divisions, there are gradations as well, such as kanistha kanistha, uttama kanistha, kanistha madhyama, madhyama madhyama, uttama madhyama, and so on. We love to glorify Srila Prabhupada for spreading Hare Krsna and love of God around the globe, yet would it not be an insult at his lotus feet to assume that he was unable to create "fixed up" devotees? Devotees at or approaching the madhyama stage and beyond? So, if someone falls from that stage, it is a falldown. Bharat Maharaja fell from the stage of bhava (although that was an instructive pastime for aspiring sadhakas.) Out of humility, one may consider himself most fallen, but one should be careful not to make the mistake of projecting that fallen status upon everyone else. I am a sub-kanistha at best, but I recognize that there are many many sincere sadhakas who are madhyama adhikaris. If I assume that everyone else is fallen like me, then that is not a very humble position to take, but instead my own false ego projecting itself on others. Thanks Vedesu for explaining how to recognize a sincere madhyama adikari although you say, "I am a sub-kanistha at best". Still, Prabhupada never enforced upon newcomers/innocent devotees to play Russian roulette and fall prey of so many who later turned out to be crocodiles, see my post above. But then still you say de facto that it is the GBC's job to rubber stamp boatloads of candidates as spiritual masters, whereas it is newcomers business to see if there's any one bona fide to be a trustworthy spiritual master? And if you pick up the wrong - too bad, they appointed a molester as guru and you were stupid enough to have accepted this judgement! Sorry, but it happened too often in order to repeat the same procedure as being right. So this is clearly again like the counterfeit printer saying to the judge, "Your honor, these fools accepted my perfectly manipulated bogus money - they are the criminals, why you blame me?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Prabhupada never enforced upon newcomers/innocent devotees to play Russian roulette and fall prey of so many who later turned out to be crocodiles... You mean he never installed managers and leaders who later turned out to be liars, crooks, and abusers? There are scores of such cases. Devotees were even sending their children to far away gurukulas because Prabhupada assured them it was the right thing to do. Later many of these kids were seriously abused. Prabhupada made no guarantees. It is a process where a lot of things can go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 You mean he never installed managers and leaders who later turned out to be liars, crooks, and abusers? There are scores of such cases. Devotees were even sending their children to far away gurukulas because Prabhupada assured them it was the right thing to do. Later many of these kids were seriously abused. Prabhupada made no guarantees. It is a process where a lot of things can go wrong. In case you might not know, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur had his own crop of liars, crooks and woman hunters. And that crop came from INDIA!!!!!!! What they hell do you people expect when a simple saint from India comes to American to deliver the dregs of society? Considering the kind of lowlifes and derelicts that Srila Prabhupada picked-up out of the gutter, he did real good and a few rottan apples in the barrel is guaranteed. Narayana Maharaja has his own growing crop of fall-aways, fall-downers and guru rejectors, so let's just accept that the mission to deliver the dregs of western society is going to be fraught with a fair share of failure and rejection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 In case you might not know, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur had his own crop of liars, crooks and woman hunters.And that crop came from INDIA!!!!!!! What they hell do you people expect when a simple saint from India comes to American to deliver the dregs of society? Read my post again. It is about the fact of life that despite having a perfect spiritual master as a guide some people will still act like crooks. And as to problems in Gaudiya Matha: they do not come even close to the depths of depravities performed by the western Iskcon dregs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted May 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 You mean he never installed managers and leaders who later turned out to be liars, crooks, and abusers? There are scores of such cases. Devotees were even sending their children to far away gurukulas because Prabhupada assured them it was the right thing to do. Later many of these kids were seriously abused. Prabhupada made no guarantees. It is a process where a lot of things can go wrong. Let us remember that if the GBC had acted in accordance with Prabhupada’s teachings, there would be no room for criticism. Where there’s smoke there’s fire and Caesar’s wife must be above suspicion (Prabhupada’s words). Who initiated and supported for years and years the Zonal Acarya travesty? On whose watch were the gurukula children brutalized and raped? Whose negligence allowed the theft of millions of dollars when some GBC/guru exited from Iskcon? The list could go on. However, we understand that these are like staff members, who are fallible. When it comes to the core sanctuary of Vaishnavism, the initiation into the path of bhakti, there should be no possibility of any cheating. This is clearly what sastra says, there should be no possibility of any cheating when it comes to the qualification of a diksa-guru. For knowledge we have got to go to the right person, tattva-darsi. Tattva-darsi means "one who has actually seen or experienced the Absolute Truth." So unless we find out such a person who has actually seen the Absolute Truth or who has in his experience what is Absolute Truth, so there is very little chance of our spiritual advancement. If we can find out such a person who is experienced in the Absolute Truth, and if we follow the principles, as it is stated here, pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya. Pranipata means to surrender, and pariprasna means to inquire, and sevaya means service. Three things. You should find out a person who is self-realized, who has experience in the Absolute Truth, and, on your part, you have to surrender there, and you have to inquire, and you have to render service. When these things are completed, there is no doubt about one's spiritual salvation.[bhagavad-gita 4.34-38 New York, August 17, 1966] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Let us remember that if the GBC had acted in accordance with Prabhupada’s teachings, there would be no room for criticism. Where there’s smoke there’s fire and Caesar’s wife must be above suspicion (Prabhupada’s words). Who initiated and supported for years and years the Zonal Acarya travesty? On whose watch were the gurukula children brutalized and raped? Whose negligence allowed the theft of millions of dollars when some GBC/guru exited from Iskcon? All such things were happening even when Srila Prabhupada was with us: philosophical deviations, child abuse, grand theft of Society's funds, even highly criminal activities like extortion and drug trade - it all happened many times in our movement even before the fab11 took over. His presence was certainly a great deterrent to such awful activities but not an ABSOLUTE GUARANTEE of a proper behavior of his disciples or institutional integrity of ISKCON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 We all have our heartaches - mine in Govinda's restaurant in November 77 when Gaudiya das told me that Srila Prabhupada had left us. No one will ever be the same. We all deal with it as best we can, some ritvik, some renegade, drowning in our tears. Stand and fight, O Mighty-armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devarsirat Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Mine was as well, I was in Japan at the time with Guru Kripas gang, it sure hurt like hell and stand and fight is the right mediciene, never stop chanting, never stop inquiring, never stop praying for mercy. We are still all one big family, never mind which camp we belong to. We all have our heartaches - mine in Govinda's restaurant in November 77 when Gaudiya das told me that Srila Prabhupada had left us. No one will ever be the same. We all deal with it as best we can, some ritvik, some renegade, drowning in our tears. Stand and fight, O Mighty-armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted May 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 We are still all one big family, never mind which camp we belong to. Thanks Devarsirat prabhu, that's what I always believed, Vaishnavas are the most dedicated spirit souls and therefore stick together like nobody else and help each other in every respect. Once Prabhupada, without whom Narayana Swami,or Sridhar Maharaja would have never become known in the West, but now is labelled as dead and gone, said, "There is a sinister movement within our Society". Interesting points which prove that "sinister movement" by Nara Narayan Vishwakarma das Prabhupada's Last Heroic Attempt at the Direction Of Management (DOM) http://www.iskcontoday.org<wbr>/2006-115.php Dear Prabhus, PAMHO, AGTSP! After meditating on the chronology of SP's repeated attempts to introduce the Direction Of Management (DOM) for our own good fortune and the good fortune of our six billion fellow humans for the duration of the Golden Age of Kali, one would have to be cold as ice not to feel absotutely stricken and heartbroken to read this letter which is obviously a close to last heroic attempt by Srila Prabhupada to get past the GBC's Absolute Unwillingness to accept the DOM. By explanation, my reading of the the first part of the letter brings me to the thought that SP wanted this letter to be the pivotal lever to bring the DOM to our Iskcon Society either at the time of His writing it, or a later time ... (Such as now). He included the first part of the letter (line item #1) quite certain that his "beloved disciples" would implement it immediately. This turned out to be true. I was present when every card, <!-- D(["mb","menu, letterhead, sign, book, brochure etc. was manically examined and then\u003cbr /\>rectified if it did not comply with the required language of line item #1.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>The second paragraph of line item #1 was a matter of urgent need at the\u003cbr /\>time, important enough, it would seem to be added to all of the legal\u003cbr /\>papers of Iskcon everywhere) ..... (The Oahu Hawa\'ai Temple had been sold\u003cbr /\>by Gaurasundhara without consulting Srila Prabhpada on the matter.)\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>I am certain that Srila Prabhupada inserted line item #1 so that History\u003cbr /\>would Witness that line item #2 had been completely disobeyed ... I do not\u003cbr /\>think that He considered it likely that line item #2 would be obeyed, and\u003cbr /\>He used line item #1 (which He was certain WOULD be obeyed) as a "marker:"\u003cbr /\>to prove that the letter was received by the GBC, circulated and read. No\u003cbr /\>one can now say that the GBC did not get or read this letter, as line item\u003cbr /\>#1 was literally followed to the letter. If He had not done that and sent\u003cbr /\>out a letter ONLY about the DOM, we, here in the year 2006 could easily\u003cbr /\>argue that without dispute, the letter was WRITTEN by SP, but where is the\u003cbr /\>proof that it was READ by all of the GBC members?\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Because of line item #1, we have quite adequate proof that the letter was\u003cbr /\>received and that half of it was scrupulously followed, while the second\u003cbr /\>was not followed at all. We must remember that in the mid to late 1990\'s,\u003cbr /\>Sridham prabhu, (now deceased) was the GBC for Education, and put the DOM\u003cbr /\>on the GBC agenda for consideration. At that meeting, there was\u003cbr /\>considerable hopeful discussion, and support for the DOM until Tamal\u003cbr /\>Goswami and Jayapataka Goswami angrily denounced the DOM as a paper that\u003cbr /\>Srila Prabhupada had rejected, and that he had clearly changed His mind by\u003cbr /\>the end. All further discussion was squashed, and the "word on the street"\u003cbr /\>from that time onward was that the DOM had no place in the world of current\u003cbr /\>day Iskcon.\u003cbr /\>",1] ); //--> menu, letterhead, sign, book, brochure etc. was manically examined and then rectified if it did not comply with the required language of line item #1. The second paragraph of line item #1 was a matter of urgent need at the time, important enough, it would seem to be added to all of the legal papers of Iskcon everywhere) ..... (The Oahu Hawa'ai Temple had been sold by Gaurasundhara without consulting Srila Prabhpada on the matter.) I am certain that Srila Prabhupada inserted line item #1 so that History would Witness that line item #2 had been completely disobeyed ... I do not think that He considered it likely that line item #2 would be obeyed, and He used line item #1 (which He was certain WOULD be obeyed) as a "marker:" to prove that the letter was received by the GBC, circulated and read. No one can now say that the GBC did not get or read this letter, as line item #1 was literally followed to the letter. If He had not done that and sent out a letter ONLY about the DOM, we, here in the year 2006 could easily argue that without dispute, the letter was WRITTEN by SP, but where is the proof that it was READ by all of the GBC members? Because of line item #1, we have quite adequate proof that the letter was received and that half of it was scrupulously followed, while the second was not followed at all. We must remember that in the mid to late 1990's, Sridham prabhu, (now deceased) was the GBC for Education, and put the DOM on the GBC agenda for consideration. At that meeting, there was considerable hopeful discussion, and support for the DOM until Tamal Goswami and Jayapataka Goswami angrily denounced the DOM as a paper that Srila Prabhupada had rejected, and that he had clearly changed His mind by the end. All further discussion was squashed, and the "word on the street" from that time onward was that the DOM had no place in the world of current day Iskcon. <!-- D(["mb","\u003cbr /\>After some deeper research, I think that I can represent that their words\u003cbr /\>spoken at that meeting were not and never had been true. Much later, I\u003cbr /\>learned that the GBC headed by my good friend and God brother Bhadri\u003cbr /\>Narayan, Romapada swami as well as Hridayananda Swami all testified on the\u003cbr /\>risk of perjury that the DOM was indeed the founding document of the GBC\u003cbr /\>and in fact, everyone in Iskcon was well aware of it! I regret any\u003cbr /\>appearance of "conspiracy theory" that my writing may trigger in the reader\u003cbr /\>... It really sounds bad, and I know it. I know that it also sounds\u003cbr /\>accusatory, and I regret the accusatory tone.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>While conducting research in the Veda Base, it became abundantly clear in a\u003cbr /\>way that I never suspected at the time, that there were, in fact, two\u003cbr /\>Iskcons....The Iskcon of the "Bright Faced Devotees" and the Iskcon of (as\u003cbr /\>Srila Prabhupada put it by saying) "There is a sinister movement within our\u003cbr /\>Society". It is this second, misguided (or perhaps "sinister") iskcon that\u003cbr /\>keeps on appearing and re-appearing in the pages of my research. Based on\u003cbr /\>the facts as they emerge, it would appear that while encouraging and\u003cbr /\>Blessing the "Brighnt Faced Devotees", he simultaneously was fighting a\u003cbr /\>silent, un-noticed , battle with the other Iskcon.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>The repeated and chronic pattern of planned and stubborn disobedience by\u003cbr /\>this second Iskcon appears in 2006 in a much more sinister and scarier\u003cbr /\>light than it did in 197O, 1971, 1972 and 1973. That is what began to come\u003cbr /\>to view as facts became assembled from those years. So, I apologize to one\u003cbr /\>and all. I did not start out be become the bearer of bad news, or tragic,\u003cbr /\>heartbreaking, drama carried out behind the scenes. I started out to bring\u003cbr /\>to all of you, and the World itself, the fabulous GIFT of the Iskcon Srila\u003cbr /\>Prabhupada WANTED (AND STILL WANTS!) FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US! The\u003cbr /\>Iskcon that He created, is centered within the DOM.\u003cbr /\>",1] ); //--> After some deeper research, I think that I can represent that their words spoken at that meeting were not and never had been true. Much later, I learned that the GBC headed by my good friend and God brother Bhadri Narayan, Romapada swami as well as Hridayananda Swami all testified on the risk of perjury that the DOM was indeed the founding document of the GBC and in fact, everyone in Iskcon was well aware of it! I regret any appearance of "conspiracy theory" that my writing may trigger in the reader ... It really sounds bad, and I know it. I know that it also sounds accusatory, and I regret the accusatory tone. While conducting research in the Veda Base, it became abundantly clear in a way that I never suspected at the time, that there were, in fact, two Iskcons....The Iskcon of the "Bright Faced Devotees" and the Iskcon of (as Srila Prabhupada put it by saying) "There is a sinister movement within our Society". It is this second, misguided (or perhaps "sinister") iskcon that keeps on appearing and re-appearing in the pages of my research. Based on the facts as they emerge, it would appear that while encouraging and Blessing the "Brighnt Faced Devotees", he simultaneously was fighting a silent, un-noticed , battle with the other Iskcon. The repeated and chronic pattern of planned and stubborn disobedience by this second Iskcon appears in 2006 in a much more sinister and scarier light than it did in 197O, 1971, 1972 and 1973. That is what began to come to view as facts became assembled from those years. So, I apologize to one and all. I did not start out be become the bearer of bad news, or tragic, heartbreaking, drama carried out behind the scenes. I started out to bring to all of you, and the World itself, the fabulous GIFT of the Iskcon Srila Prabhupada WANTED (AND STILL WANTS!) FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US! The Iskcon that He created, is centered within the DOM. <!-- D(["mb","\u003cbr /\>The Iskcon that we created after "amputating" the DOM from Srila\u003cbr /\>Prabhupada\'s Iskcon, is all to well known to all of us ... non-elected\u003cbr /\>often criminal leaders triggering lawsuits and scandal paid for by the rank\u003cbr /\>and file devotees who never suspected that they had a right to vote, and to\u003cbr /\>experience voluntary free will as the basis of Spiritual Advancement rather\u003cbr /\>than the morbidity of the ever present leaders who were more inclined to\u003cbr /\>cover up the molestations, embezzlements, murders, frauds and other crimes\u003cbr /\>than to protect the temples that they were supposedly created to preserve.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Fortunately, forty years is a small fraction of the Ten Thousand Year of\u003cbr /\>the Golden Age Of kali. I we all roll up our sleeves and "get to work" we\u003cbr /\>will be living in the Iskcon that Srila Prabhupada intended for us before\u003cbr /\>we, ourselves, leave these bodies that are aging fast. Please let\'s do\u003cbr /\>that!... I vow my unswerving support and aid every step of the way.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Your eternal servant, Nara Narayan Vishwakarma das\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003cwbr /\>\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003d\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>6) TRIPURARI hosts bogus gurus.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>Audarya Hosts Ratha Yatra Festival BY VRINDARANYA DASI\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>[PADA: OK here we go, for those who have told us that "Vrndaranya dasi" is\u003cbr /\>a figment of PADA\'s imagination, she is the person writing this article on\u003cbr /\>behalf of Tripurari swami. Duh! And she is the person always out there\u003cbr /\>riding around in the big Volvo X-Tracker Wagon with Swami BV Tripurari at\u003cbr /\>the helm. Duh! And she is the person the Eugene Oregon devotees of\u003cbr /\>Tripurari said "has to go because the swami does not look good always\u003cbr /\>associating with a young women, he looks worse than Ramesvara did." Duh!\u003cbr /\>The Eugene devotees said, either she goes or they will go. And Tripurari\u003cbr /\>said, "she stays and you all have to go." Sorry this person actually\u003cbr /\>exists, she is a young woman. And hence, some of Swami BV Tripurari\'s\u003cbr /\>",1] ); //--> The Iskcon that we created after "amputating" the DOM from Srila Prabhupada's Iskcon, is all to well known to all of us ... non-elected often criminal leaders triggering lawsuits and scandal paid for by the rank and file devotees who never suspected that they had a right to vote, and to experience voluntary free will as the basis of Spiritual Advancement rather than the morbidity of the ever present leaders who were more inclined to cover up the molestations, embezzlements, murders, frauds and other crimes than to protect the temples that they were supposedly created to preserve. Fortunately, forty years is a small fraction of the Ten Thousand Year of the Golden Age Of kali. If we all roll up our sleeves and "get to work" we will be living in the Iskcon that Srila Prabhupada intended for us before we, ourselves, leave these bodies that are aging fast. Please let's do that!... I vow my unswerving support and aid every step of the way. Your eternal servant, Nara Narayan Vishwakarma das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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