Bhakta Don Muntean Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Yes here I am - all these years later and - the fact is - Krishna has let me down! I have lost so much over this lie called krishna and I now despise that I ever believed in it. I cannot express how it makes me feel to be without any hope whatsoever and - for that - I thank the FALSE god called krishna! Besides - the Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission said "we don't cover krishna here" - so if krishna doesn't care about the rights of his servants - why should I care about him? I wasted nearly twenty years of my life on this lie...enough is enough! Don Muntean [not BHAKTA don muntean] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meez Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Hello my friend, I'm sorry to hear you have found disappointment in something you have believed in. Is there something specific that has happened that you would like to tell us? If not, thats completely understandable and I wish you the very best. Be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 God answers all our prayers, sometimes the answer is no. If we fail to actually be the servant of Krsna, we will still be masters of the world, thinking even god should be our servants. Actually, Krsna lets everyone down, all those who want to remain in their thrones of material world mastery are left in the dirt, and this is the most precious gift. If the burn of fire was not so painful, we would leave our fingers in, until there was just stumps. But no, krsna gives us acute pain so we will pull our fingers out in time to save them for further use. We get embroiled in socio-political action, and we see that injustice prevails, this too is Krsna letting us know that justice for a criminal is just greater success at crime. They already got theirs, don, dont give them more. Dont tie in your twenty years of service to some silly commission of some worthless place that has no impact on reality. Their decision against you should be worn like a badge of honor. I do. My civil service career was crushed by decisions of injustice, and I lost everything, only to see that all I lost was stuff of no value anyway. Krsna is not my servant. Be proud, wear your silks proudly, like Srimati Sitadevi, and follow your Lord Rama into exile. You say he has abandoned you, but he waits at the gate still. And, yes, he is there to take the blame as well, whatever it takes. Been there, done that. I can give up on him every day, but that is the difference between Him and me, he doesnt give up on me. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Looks like the ISKCON gurus have done their work on another poor fool? Don't blame it on Krishna. These gurus aren't representing Krishna. They represent selfish ambitions and their own false identities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 ..... defeated by some brainless arrogant clerk in the government. The lion pays no heed to the barking of the jackals. It's tough being surrounded by idiots, but that is Kali-yuga. We didn't get the big religious persecution payout with its life of leisure. But that wasn't the goal. Don't join the morons - they have no right to any opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Yes here I am - all these years later and - the fact is - Krishna has let me down! I have lost so much over this lie called krishna and I now despise that I ever believed in it. I have not seen much of your Krsna consciousness exhibited on this site. You always seemed to be obsessed with Israel and it's well being. Forget the Old Testament attitude of making a deal with God. It is not a business venture. You must have read too much Talmud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralidhar_das Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 You spend your life and energy attacking Muslims and "liberals" and think this is devotional service. Then when you don't get the material rewards you expected to get in your material life you say, "Krishna is a lie, Krishna doesn't answer my prayers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pankaja_Dasa Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 don't worry yo'll believe tommorow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Well Don it's crisis of faith time. Rough going through but I believe you will come out stronger on the other side. If, and I am fairly certain that you do, still believe in a Supreme Person than you still believe in Krsna although perhaps now you may show preference to Him by another name. No problem. I also find it helpful to try and deconstruct the knowledge presented by the Krsna consciousness movement. The books say we are not these material bodies. Do I accept that still? Well yes. The books say God is the Supreme Person. Do I accept that? Well yes. The books say I am meant to have a loving relationship with the Supreme Lord. I accept that as well. Lord Caitanya teaches that the Lord has hundreds of millions of Names and that by chanting them we can become purified and develop love for Him. This is also perfectly valid still. There may be so many other things that trouble you about the Krsna consciousness movement but as long as you maintain these core beliefs and act on them all will be fine. You so often quote the Bible. Yahweh, or Jah, or Jehovah are names for Krsna found there. Please keep your faith in those names at least as I am sure you will. You are a good soul as I have noticed from your many postings. I can't envision you abandoning God consciousness. And for sure the Lord will never abandon you. Sometimes the fever comes and we burn with it and our thoughts race from here to there. In a few days it passes and we are back to normal. I hope you will keep coming to this forum and at least chatting with us and letting us know how things are going. ys, theist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 I think this topic has had enough attention already and it's time to move on. Most any of us in here have payed a high price for having taken an interest in Krishna consciousness. We gave up college, gave up our material possessions to the temple, gave up our friends and familes and spent years devoted to a movement that quickly turned into shambles after the passing of Srila Prabhupada. Yet, most of us have never blamed Krishna or Srila Prabhupada for ruining our material lives. Yet, the lord has a way to compensate and help us if we don't lose faith and turn against him. Even though I ruined my life and gave up 6 years college I had coming from my military service and sold my car and took all my belongings to the temples and surrendered everything and then gave the best years of my life to the movement, I never saw any value in getting bitter and blaming Krishna or Srila Prabhupada. Plenty of us could be whining and complaining that Krishna ruined our lives. But,we aren't and we aren't going to baby anyone who got his panties all in bunch because he can't fulfill all his material desires and is blaming Krishna for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 http://vedabase.net/sb/8/22/16/en SB 6.12.13p Therefore, why does the living entity, against his will, receive such unwanted troubles? It is due to the mercy or chastisement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead that one gains or loses everything material. No one is independent; everyone is dependent on the mercy or chastisement of the Supreme Lord. There is a common saying in Bengal that the Lord has ten hands. This means that He has control everywhere--in the eight directions and up and down. If He wants to take everything away from us with His ten hands, we cannot protect anything with our two hands. Similarly, if He wants to bestow benedictions upon us with His ten hands, we cannot factually receive them all with our two hands; in other words, the benedictions exceed our ambitions. The conclusion is that even though we do not wish to be separated from our possessions, sometimes the Lord forcibly takes them from us; and sometimes He showers such benedictions upon us that we are unable to receive them all. Therefore either in opulence or in distress we are not independent; everything is dependent on the sweet will of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Morning Walk Mumbai'74 PrabhupAda: No, no. No, KRSNa says in the BhAgavata, yasyAham anugRhNAmi hariSye tad-dhanaM zanaiH, that "This is my mercy. The first test is that I take away everything, what he possesses." Dr. Patel: (Hindi) PrabhupAda: No, therefore people do not like to become VaiSNava, actually. YasyAham anughRNAmi. That is the first installment of his mercy. YasyAham anughRNAmi hariSye... You know this. It was questioned by MahArAja YudhiSThira. Dr. Patel: Yes, I have gone through this. PrabhupAda: Yes. [break] ...a little doubtful that KRSNa is the LakSmI-pati, NArAyaNa, and those who are devotees of KRSNa, they become poorer. And Lord Siva, who has no even a residential house, he lives under the tree, and the devotees of Lord Siva they become opulent. So what is the reason? So this was questioned by MahArAja Yudhisthira to KRSNa. So KRSNa first answered that yasyaham anughrnami harisye tad-dhanam sanaiH: "This is the first installment of My mercy." [break] Morning Walk Denver'75 Yadubara: Sometimes it is stated that KRSNa will take everything away from the devotee. PrabhupAda: That is special favor, (laughter) that "This rascal is again attached. Take all his..." That is special favor. That is not ordinary favor, so that when everything is taken away, he will completely surrender to KRSNa, "KRSNa, I have nothing except You." tumi binA ke Ache Amara "I have nothing." That is very good. http://vedabase.net/sb/10/88/8/en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21<B>Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.</b> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Hi Don, You sound very bitter. Can you please explain your disappointment and why you have so suddenly lost your faith? What were you expecting? What is it that so disappoints you? You presumably have been chanting the Maha Mantra for some time - have you no tangible experience from your sincere endeavors? Krsna consciousness isn't about getting anything - it's about giving. If you feel you aren't getting then you haven't understood what Bhakti is. Ahaituki Apratihitha - Bhakti, suddha Bhakti that is, is unmotivated and uninterrupted. That is the goal - to give completely without wanting anything and do so at every moment - truly this is worth striving for and sacrificing for. Whatever you may feel you have lost or whatever disappointments you have pale in light of this. Krsna says that there is no loss or dimunition for anyone who endeavors to serve him and that even a little advancement can save one from the most dangerous fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Chapter 12. Devotional Service TEXT 13-14 advesta sarva-bhutanam maitrah karuna eva ca nirmamo nirahankarah sama-duhkha-sukhah ksami santustah satatam yogi yatatma drdha-niscayah mayy arpita-mano-buddhir yo mad-bhaktah sa me priyah SYNONYMS advesta--nonenvious; sarva-bhutanam--for all living entities; maitrah--friendly; karunah--kindly; eva--certainly; ca--also; nirmamah--with no sense of proprietorship; nirahankarah--without false ego; sama--equally; duhkha--distress; sukhah--happiness; ksami--forgiving; santustah--satisfied; satatam--always; yogi--engaged in devotion; yata-atma--self-controlled; drdha-niscayah--with determination; mayi--upon Me; arpita--engaged; manah--mind; buddhih--intelligence; yah--one who; mat-bhaktah--My devotee; sah me priyah--he is dear to Me. TRANSLATION One who is not envious but who is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor, who is free from false ego and equal both in happiness and distress, who is always satisfied and engaged in devotional service with determination and whose mind and intelligence are in agreement with Me--he is very dear to Me. PURPORT Coming again to the point of pure devotional service, the Lord is describing the transcendental qualifications of a pure devotee in these two verses. A pure devotee is never disturbed in any circumstances. Nor is he envious of anyone. Nor does a devotee become his enemy's enemy; he thinks that one is acting as his enemy due to his own past misdeeds. Thus it is better to suffer than to protest. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated: tat te 'nukampam susamiksamano. Whenever a devotee is in distress or has fallen into difficulty, he thinks that it is the Lord's mercy upon him. He thinks: "Thanks to my past misdeeds I should suffer far, far greater than I am suffering now. So it is by the mercy of the Supreme Lord that I am not getting all the punishment I am due. I am just getting a little, by the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Therefore he is always calm, quiet and patient, despite many distressful conditions. A devotee is always kind to everyone, even to his enemy. Nirmama means that a devotee does not attach much importance to the peace and trouble pertaining to the body because he knows perfectly well that he is not the material body. He does not identify with the body; therefore he is freed from the conception of false ego and is equipoised both in happiness and distress. He is tolerant, and he is satisfied with whatever comes by the grace of the Supreme Lord. He does not endeavor much to achieve something with great difficulty; therefore he is always joyful. He is a completely perfect mystic because he is fixed in the instructions received from the spiritual master, and because his senses are controlled, he is determined. He is not swayed by false argument because no one can lead him from the fixed determination of devotional service. He is fully conscious that Krsna is the eternal Lord, so no one can disturb him. All his qualifications enable him to depend entirely on the Supreme Lord. Such a standard of devotional service is undoubtedly very rare, but a devotee becomes situated in that stage by following the regulative principles of devotional service. Furthermore, the Lord says that such a devotee is very dear to Him, for the Lord is always pleased with all his activities in full Krsna consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 "If you love somebody he is in your heart. It is common thing, everyone understands it. If I hate somebody or if I love somebody he is also in my heart. Therefore simply by hating Krishna he gets salvation, like Kamsa. So if you want to hate, hate Krishna." Srila Prabhupada, Sept 7, 1972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedesu Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 "I know no one but Krishna as my Lord, and He shall remain so, even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present ... (Sri Siksastakam) I'm confused. Are you disabled and unable to work? Are you about to become homeless due to lack of income? Or did you file a lawsuit and lose your case and not receive your expected windfall? If you have a means of sustenance, then you should count your blessings, for it means that Krsna is maintaining you. Kuntidevi, while offering prayers to Krishna, addressed Him as akincana-gocara, one who is easily approached by those who are bereft of all material acquisitions. Material exhaustion is an advantage for advancement in Krishna consciousness...Srimad Bhagavatam 4.3.17 purport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 with all this talk about becoming poor by worshiping Krishna I think I might just become a Shaiva and see if I can't get the wealth and women I really desire. Om Namo Shivaya.. shivoham............................. Maybe you should go kiss the Shiva lingam and see if you get lucky? Lord Shiva is the man..................................!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Morning Walk Denver'75 Yadubara: Sometimes it is stated that KRSNa will take everything away from the devotee. PrabhupAda: That is special favor, (laughter) that "This rascal is again attached. Take all his..." That is special favor. That is not ordinary favor, so that when everything is taken away, he will completely surrender to KRSNa, "KRSNa, I have nothing except You.":pray: :pray: :pray: tumi binA ke Ache Amara "I have nothing." That is very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted May 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 ...wow just see all the posts - thanx to all those are are nice and concerned in their comments :ponder:and - to that one who made the comments about Israel and Talmud - blow it out yer you know what... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Don, the devotees do care about you and so does Krishna. It's the "Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission" that don't care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Yeah Don hang in there. Storms pass. Be patient think and pray it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2007 Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 Did you feel pain or just lose happiness? If you felt pain, it was not your fault unless you know it was; time always tell. Maya (god Atom) is a temporary illusion. Everyone gets out after an extremely long time. Maya was NOT the correct choice. Can any one do anything? -No- Can we? --Yes-- If we can (MUST) then do it; anyone can get lost but it can not get easier and not be unfair. If you've lost everything to Krishna, who cares! He created everything to begin with except the master; He'll bring it all back home anyway. No use in whining -- just celebrate life. Every one is in their own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Yeah don, there are those who care and those who are so careless that they may even cheer when the hear of what our theist friend expertly defines as a "crisis of faith". You have "friends", and these are devotees. They do not curse you for your post of frustration, rather, they are there to try to help you through. This is KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS, where others are more important than their very selves. I had a particular "crisis of faith" (one of many each day of my life, BTW). My anger was directed towand my peers, and I wrote my siksa, telling how mean they were, how disgusting their actions were. I was angry and leaving, and I left forever. My siksa did not reject me, but he did teach me. He wrote back, saying, "I know why you dump all your anger at my door, my disciples are the source of your anger, meaning you are angry at me. You see me as Krsnas representative, so you are ultimately angry at Krsna. When you come to see that Krsna never becomes angry back, but is always there to wqelcome you, then your anger will cease." He was so right on, and funny, too (theist knows who I speak of here, Babhru, too). He ended his letter saying he knew his disciples were weird, aggressive, petty, fanatical. He quipped, "You should have seen them before they chanted." I know how draining your ordeal was, as we spoke of similar cases on another topic. Took me quite a few bowls of di herb to unwind from their form of JUSTICE, their decisions thast are always wrong, and quite calamitous. The waters of the self were agitated for a year or so. They bankrupted me and discredited me. Now, seven years later, I rejoice their bad decisions every day. Had things gone my way, Id have a million buicks (actually $14,000,000), and I would be the master (meaning Id have my own little realm as caretaker of nuclear bombs, maybe even the ones with buttons). Instead, I am a humble caretaker of shrines for those who were murdered by the score, military experts who were used improperly and horrifically by materialistic politics. I thank Krsna and Srimati Saraswati (my mother, the wife of Lord Brahma, my original spiritual master) for having them render such bad decisions. What Im saying, brother, is let time cleanse as it does so perfectly. The thin thread is always there as a lifeline, because we give up on Krsna every day, but he never gives up on us. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa Theist, gHari, and other "friends of the afflicted", I offer you my humble obiesancies. I have friends who help me through these crises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 And my respects to you mahaksadas. When we can give up the petty thoughts like "I have suffered so why shouldn't they" then we can come to get a smal sense at least of the "true equality of all beings both in their happiness and distress." This helps us to the reality of our connectedness to all other living beings as parts of Krsna. He is a perfect yogi who, by comparison to his own self, sees the true equality of all beings, in both their happiness and their distress, O Arjuna! BG 6.32 Brothers and sisters for sure but yet even more. We most often forget Lord Caitanya and His representatives are not just strict dualists. In one very real sense we are all Krsna so our connection with others is much more than just a sibling relationship. We when take joy in another's suffering we are in a very real way taking joy in our own. For fifty odd years I have lived in the miserable state of "misery loves company." I am just starting to want to move past this and get a residence in a better neighborhood. Don is us. His crisis is our crisis. His eventual breakthroughs will be ours also as well as his. We are in this together bro. T'anks for showin' da lite yeah. =:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirisilex Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 What happened exactly to turn you away like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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