Was Narasimha avatar slain by Virbhadra?

[radhagovind]

virbhadra is a manifestation from shiva. In the linga purana, it says that after narsimha avatar killed hiranyakashyapu, he was more enraged and decided to destroy the universe. paniced, everyone went to shiva and shiva manifested virbhadra. virbhadra confronts narsimha and makes him understand but narsimha gets enraged and attacks virbhadra. as a result, virbhadra cuts off narasimha's head and kills him. in the purana, it says though that it only killed the avatar, and not vishnu himself. Do you think this really happened, that shiv manifestation killed vishnu avatar? ( i don't know because avatar is when god himself descends to do some task, this would mean vishnu himself descended as narasimha and that narsimha got slain.)

[Guest guest]

never heard that... please provide a link to a source so we can examine the situation in its entireity and context.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

There is also another species of beings that look like Narasimha. You can see them sometimes as gatekeepers in temples, especially in Nepal. It is possible that Lord Shiva killed one of these creatures, or it is possible the story is completely interpolated.

[krsna]

 

There is also another species of beings that look like Narasimha. You can see them sometimes as gatekeepers in temples, especially in Nepal. It is possible that Lord Shiva killed one of these creatures, or it is possible the story is completely interpolated.

 

 

This is such anice word to describe this phenomena wherein the subject has been changed beyound the nature of truth:

 

<CITE>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)</CITE> -

 

in·ter·po·late [in-tur-puh-leyt] verb, -lat·ed, -lat·ing. –verb (used with object)

 

<TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>1.</TD><TD vAlign=top>to introduce (something additional or extraneous) between other things or parts; interject; interpose; intercalate. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>2.</TD><TD vAlign=top>Mathematics. to insert, estimate, or find an intermediate term in (a sequence). </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>3.</TD><TD vAlign=top>to alter (a text) by the insertion of new matter, esp. deceptively or without authorization. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>4.</TD><TD vAlign=top>to insert (new or spurious matter) in this manner. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

–verb (used without object)

<TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>5.</TD><TD vAlign=top>to make an interpolation. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<HR class=ety>[Origin: 1605–15; < L interpolātus ptp. of interpolāre to make new, refurbish, touch up, equiv. to inter- inter- + -polā- v. s. (akin to polīre to polish) + -tus ptp. suffix]

[Nrsinghadev]

Haribol,

 

Well judging by the information you have given us here, it basically cannot be the Nrisinghdeva avatar, because after Lord Nrsinghadev killed hiranyakshipu He was pacified by Prahlada Maharaj. It could therefore also not have happened in the period between right after Hiranyakashipu's death and before Praladha Maharaj's pacifying Nrsinghadev, because if it had, Prahlada wouldn't have had a Nrsingha avatar to pacify would he? So it must be a fallacy since there is no Nrsinghadev pastime without Prahlada Maharaj. This is simple logic.

 

As far as the Bhagavatam is concerned, Virabhadra makes his appearance in the fourth canto, chapter five. In short, Lord Shiva became so angry when He received news that His wife Sati was now dead because of Daksha's insulting her, that He decided to punish him. He snatched a single strand of hair from his head and threw it to the ground. From this hair Virabhadra appeared and he proceeded to ruin Daksha's yajna and he beheaded Daksha. So there is a beheading, but it is of Daksha and not of Nrsimhadeva.

 

Hare Krishna!

[muralidhar_das]

This story about Narasingha being defeated and that Virabhadra presented Siva the skin and skull of Narasingha is told in the Siva Purana.

 

What does this tell us?

 

That this Purana (and others) are written by unenlightened, sectarian men who were trying to prove the supremacy of their ista-deva.

[Guest guest]

This is insanity,

 

I thought all the purana's were written by Vyasadev, what's the story here, it becomes a little confusing, I really admire Nrshinga, He is my man besides Krishna and I really love Him....

 

I also read in the Ganesha Purana that Tripurasur chased even Vishnu, who had to hide Himself....what's the story about this one then....???

 

God hiding Himself for a demon ????

 

Please feedback !!!!!

[muralidhar_das]

The ancient literature was kept by men in their houses for a thousand years, and in that time some of the ancient texts were altered. Indeed some texts that purport to be ancient were written by men in relatively recent times.

 

However, when Sri Chaitanyadeva appeared on Earth 500 years ago he showed humankind that God is not just a fable but a living Person. 500 years ago, Krishna Himself reappeared on Earth as Sri Chaitanyadeva and uplifted even very degraded men and made even them into saints with hearts filled with bliss. If you study the life and teachings of Sri Chaitanyadeva you will be amazed, and your heart will also be filled with happiness.

[Erik]

Yeah....

 

that's confusing indeed, all this....

 

But my thoughts are this, if Vishnu runs away for a demon, then it is IMPOSSIBLE for Vishnu to be God, right ??

I mean, God doesn't run away and hide Himself for a demon......

 

So what is stated in the Bhagavatam that Vishnu is an exspension/extension (sorry for my bad grammar) of Krishna and that Krishna appears to be God here....

 

or am I wrong ??

 

[Erik]

 

The ancient literature was kept by men in their houses for a thousand years, and in that time some of the ancient texts were altered. Indeed some texts that purport to be ancient were written by men in relatively recent times.

 

Hey,

 

who says this, it's still confusing, who says that the Bhagavatam was not altered, who were the men who kept it inside the houses and what about the Bhavysya Purana about Lord Jesus and so on.....

 

If it is said that "some" puranas were altered, and nobody knows which ones, then ALL puranas become a bit unbelievable for other people, how can we ever prove to others that it is the Truth ?????

 

:crying2: :crying2: :crying2: :crying2: :crying2: :crying2: :crying2: :crying2: :crying2:

[muralidhar_das]

Sri Chaitanya came and showed the world Krishna. If we learn about Krishna from Sri Chaitanyadeva we will see Krishna is real. Many disciples of Sri Chaitanya saw Krishna in their spiritually awakened consciousness.

 

Sri Chaitanya said the Bhagavata Purana teaches us how to realize the REALITY of Krishna and many people followed Sri Chaitanya's advice and became Krishna Conscious.

 

If the other old books are corrupted, what does it matter??????

[Guest guest]

A person is drawn to a particular religion or sect within a wider religious framework as a result of the impressions left on his or her consciousness by the experiences accumulated over millions upon millions of births. I am attracted to Krsna and Mahaprabhu because of my karmic inheritance - well, thanks to the Lord Himself for imbuing my mind with some attraction to Him, but that is another matter. In similar vein, this applies to a Saiva, a Sakta or an Advaitin. Many, many births from now, if I succeed in realising the perfection of Gaudiya Vedanta, hopefully, Radharani will be persuaded to allow me in Goloka Vrndavana so that I can perform my eternal service there. At that time, there will be no greater reality than Vraja-lila for my humble self.

 

For the revered Sri Hanumanji, no dhama is beyond Saketa/Ayodhya and no Lord above Bhagavan Sri Ramacandra. For Garudadeva, Catur-bhuja Sriman Narayana is Param Brahma, and the source of everything manifest and unmanifest. Likewise, for Nandisvara, Devadideva Mahadeva is the Supreme Lord, and there is no one higher than the blue-throated Lord with matted locks. For a Siva-bhakta who has attained Kailasa or Sadasivaloka, the service of Gauri-Sankara is second to none. And I may also add that to a follower of Advaita Vedanta like Sivananda Swami, who was accepted as a jivan-mukta (liberated even whilst still present in his body on earth), the Brahman effulgence is all. There was never, and there will never be a time when all of humanity will to one single spiritual ideal.

 

Hare Krsna

[Erik]

Oke,

 

that's pretty clear, guys.....

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

But my thoughts are this, if Vishnu runs away for a demon, then it is IMPOSSIBLE for Vishnu to be God, right ?? I mean, God doesn't run away and hide Himself for a demon......

 

Sometimes the actions of God are perplexing, but there is a meaning and purpose behind each action. For example Krishna also ran from the battle field once, and the kings at the time thought it was due to fear. But later it became clear that it was the Lord's divine pastime to involve other devotees in the fight. Sometime's he pretends to run in fear, or sometimes he pretends to be killed by an arrow to his foot. We really can't understand the actions of Krishna with an external glancing.

[Guruvani]

The Padma Purana describes that all the Puranas are divided into three types:

 

*Sattva: Visnu, Narada, Bhagavata Garuda, Padma, Varaha

*Rajas: Brahmanda, Brahma-vaivarta, Markandeya, Bhavisya, Vamana, Brahma

*Tamas: Matsya, Kurma, Linga, Vayu/Siva, Skanda, Agni

 

So, it is accepted that the Siva Purana is for men of tamasic nature.

As such, what can we expect from a tamasic Purana?

 

Tamasic means ignorant.

 

So, the Siva Purana is meant to create in ignorant men some faith in Siva so that they might get some benefit and make some gradual advancement in theistic life.

 

So, in the tamasic Puranas we might find some exaggerations or bending of the truth in the attempts to reach people of tamasic nature and start to lead them towards the Vedic scriptures and the Dharma shastras.

 

In the Sattvic Puranas we most definitely find Siva worshiping Vishnu-tattva and subordinating himself to Vishnu-tattva.

 

As well, since the Siva Purana is a tamasic Purana, there is a high possibility that these tamasic men over time have adulterated versions of Siva Purana for financial reasons and other such tamasic motives.

 

Getting pure knowledge from tamasic shastra and tamasic worshipers is not a very likely possibility.

[Guest guest]

Guruvani,

 

As a Vaisnava myself, I basically concur with the gist of your argument, but that does not mean that we ought to go about being dogmatic about it. Engaging in unhelpful polemics and try to destroy other peoples' faiths does not befit a follower of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Each person has got his point of view, and every branch of Hinduism favours a distinct approach to reading sastra. Saiva dharma does not base its theology and philosophy on the Siva Purana; in fact orthodox Saivite lineages tend to largely ignore the Puranic corpus of India's Sanskrit texts almost totally. They accept the Vedas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Vedic samhitas and Upanisads, especially books with Saivite tendencies like the Svetasvatara Upanisad for instance. Apart from this, their main emphasis is on the Saiva agamas. The Itihasas and Puranas are practically considered irrelevant in Saivism. So, belittling the Siva Purana really has no bearing on the faith of a traditional Siva-bhakta.

 

If you do not mind me making a remark, but I cannot help notice that most of your posts carry a warlike and intolerant mood, particularly reminiscent of fundamentalist Muslims or Christians. Such an attitude runs in sharp contrast to the standard which Mahaprabhu prescribed for his sampradaya. All devotees in our line, whether from the traditional Parivaras started by the close associates of Mahaprabhu and other historical Vaisnava stalwarts, Gaudiya Matha or ISKCON for that matter have no choice but to faithfully abide by the instructions of the Siksastaka if we want to someday become true Gaudiyas. And Mahaprabhu tells us that we need to become as tolerant as a tree and as humble as a blade of grass, not draw daggers the moment somebody says something that we disagree with, so we can feel good about ourselves.

 

The mentality you have been displaying will only bring resentment in those towards whom your points are intended and that will in turn generate abuse upon Gaudiya Vaisnavism. At just 33, I am junior to you by more than 2 decades, Guruvani, but I find your position so disturbing that these lines simply came running out of my fingers and onto my keyboard before displaying on the screen.

 

Nitai Gaura Radhe Shyam

[Guest guest]

Is it so hard to believe? Remember Krishna Himself left His body after being shot with an arrow by a no-name hunter. So for Shiva to have 'slain' Lord Narasimha, this doesn't sound so far fetched.

[Guest guest]

I agree with your post Vikramji, however, your sig. 'nitai gaura radhe shyam' is apasiddhantik. You can't keep the two together.

[Guruvani]

 

Guruvani,

 

As a Vaisnava myself, I basically concur with the gist of your argument, but that does not mean that we ought to go about being dogmatic about it. Engaging in unhelpful polemics and try to destroy other peoples' faiths does not befit a follower of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Each person has got his point of view, and every branch of Hinduism favours a distinct approach to reading sastra. Saiva dharma does not base its theology and philosophy on the Siva Purana; in fact orthodox Saivite lineages tend to largely ignore the Puranic corpus of India's Sanskrit texts almost totally. They accept the Vedas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Vedic samhitas and Upanisads, especially books with Saivite tendencies like the Svetasvatara Upanisad for instance. Apart from this, their main emphasis is on the Saiva agamas. The Itihasas and Puranas are practically considered irrelevant in Saivism. So, belittling the Siva Purana really has no bearing on the faith of a traditional Siva-bhakta.

 

If you do not mind me making a remark, but I cannot help notice that most of your posts carry a warlike and intolerant mood, particularly reminiscent of fundamentalist Muslims or Christians. Such an attitude runs in sharp contrast to the standard which Mahaprabhu prescribed for his sampradaya. All devotees in our line, whether from the traditional Parivaras started by the close associates of Mahaprabhu and other historical Vaisnava stalwarts, Gaudiya Matha or ISKCON for that matter have no choice but to faithfully abide by the instructions of the Siksastaka if we want to someday become true Gaudiyas. And Mahaprabhu tells us that we need to become as tolerant as a tree and as humble as a blade of grass, not draw daggers the moment somebody says something that we disagree with, so we can feel good about ourselves.

 

The mentality you have been displaying will only bring resentment in those towards whom your points are intended and that will in turn generate abuse upon Gaudiya Vaisnavism. At just 33, I am junior to you by more than 2 decades, Guruvani, but I find your position so disturbing that these lines simply came running out of my fingers and onto my keyboard before displaying on the screen.

 

Nitai Gaura Radhe Shyam

 

Well, Vikram babu, I am very impressed that you are a Vaishnava. That is a very exalted status.

Myself, I an neither Vaishnava, Shaiva, Buddhist, Christian or Muslim.

 

I am just a baddha jiva caught in a struggle for existence in the material world.

Vaishnavas are liberated mahatmas beyond the clutches of illusion.

That certainly doesn't describe me.

 

 

Please excuse me.

I am just a lowborn American mleccha and you are a very cultured and highborn Bhartiya.

 

Here in the USA were aren't used to living side by side with Shaivas, so I am not so prone to be very accomodating when one of them comes into the forums saying essentially "my Siva killed your Narahari".

 

It appears he was just begging for some disagreement from those of us in here who don't accept Siva at Paramesvara.

 

I feel that maybe you are a little more defensive of your fellow Hindus and a little prone to be very critical of us American people.

[Guruvani]

 

I agree with your post Vikramji, however, your sig. 'nitai gaura radhe shyam' is apasiddhantik. You can't keep the two together.

 

Isn't that chant the signature mantra of the tantric sahajiyas in Braja?

 

No proper Vaishnava acharya has every approved that sahajiya mantra.

[Guruvani]

<center></center>

 

<center></center>

<center>Lord Siva Creates the Demon Virabhadra</center>

 

 

"Thus Lord Siva, being extremely angry, pressed his lips with his teeth and immediately snatched from his head a strand of hair which blazed like electricity or fire. He stood up at once, laughing like a madman, and dashed the hair to the ground.

 

A fearful black demon as high as the sky and as bright as three suns combined was thereby created, his teeth very fearful and the hairs on his head like burning fire. He had thousands of arms, equipped with various weapons, and he was garlanded with the heads of men.

 

When that gigantic demon asked with folded hands, "What shall I do, my lord?" Lord Siva, who is known as Bhutanatha, directly ordered, "Because you are born from my body, you are the chief of all my associates. Therefore, kill Daksa and his soldiers at the sacrifice."

 

Purport: Here is the beginning of competition between brahma-tejas and siva-tejas. By brahma-tejas, brahminical strength, Bhrgu Muni had created the Rbhu demigods, who had driven away the soldiers of Lord Siva stationed in the arena. When Lord Siva heard that his soldiers had been driven away, he created the tall black demon Virabhadra to retaliate. There is sometimes a competition between the mode of goodness and the mode of ignorance. That is the way of material existence. Even when one is situated in the mode of goodness, there is every possibility that his position will be mixed with or attacked by the mode of passion or ignorance. That is the law of material nature. Although pure goodness, or suddha-sattva, is the basic principle in the spiritual world, pure manifestation of goodness is not possible in this material world. Thus, the struggle for existence between different material qualities is always present. This quarrel between Lord Siva and Bhrgu Muni, centering around Prajapati Daksa, is the practical example of such competition between the different qualitative modes of material nature.

 

 

Maitreya continued: My dear Vidura, that black person was the personified anger of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and he was prepared to execute the orders of Lord Siva. Thus, considering himself capable of coping with any power offered against him, he circumambulated Lord Siva.

 

Many other soldiers of Lord Siva followed the fierce personality in a tumultuous uproar. He carried a great trident, fearful enough to kill even death, and on his legs he wore bangles which seemed to roar.

 

At that time, all the persons assembled in the sacrificial arena--the priests, the chief of the sacrificial performance, and the brahmanas and their wives--wondered where the darkness was coming from. Later they could understand that it was a dust storm, and all of them were full of anxiety.

 

Conjecturing on the origin of the storm, they said: There is no wind blowing, and no cows are passing, nor is it possible that this dust storm could be raised by plunderers, for there is still the strong King Barhi, who would punish them. Where is this dust storm blowing from? Is the dissolution of the planet now to occur?

 

Prasuti, the wife of Daksa, along with the other women assembled, became very anxious and said: This danger has been created by Daksa because of the death of Sati, who, even though completely innocent, quit her body as her sisters looked on.

 

At the time of dissolution, Lord Siva's hair is scattered, and he pierces the rulers of the different directions with his trident. He laughs and dances proudly, scattering their hands like flags, as thunder scatters the clouds all over the world.

 

The gigantic black man bared his fearful teeth. By the movements of his brows he scattered the luminaries all over the sky, and he covered them with his strong, piercing effulgence. Because of the misbehavior of Daksa, even Lord Brahma, Daksa's father, could not have been saved from the great exhibition of anger.

 

While all the people talked amongst themselves, Daksa saw dangerous omens from all sides, from the earth and from the sky.

 

My dear Vidura, all the followers of Lord Siva surrounded the arena of sacrifice. They were of short stature and were equipped with various kinds of weapons; their bodies appeared to be like those of sharks, blackish and yellowish. They ran all around the sacrificial arena and thus began to create disturbances.

 

 

<center></center>

 

 

<center>

Daksa's Sacrificial Ritual is Disturbed

</center>

 

Some of the soldiers pulled down the pillars which were supporting the pandal of sacrifice, some of them entered the female quarters, some began destroying the sacrificial arena, and some entered the kitchen and the residential quarters.

 

They broke all the pots made for use in the sacrifice, and some of them began to extinguish the sacrificial fire. Some tore down the boundary line of the sacrificial arena, and some passed urine on the arena.

 

Some blocked the way of the fleeing sages, some threatened the women assembled there, and some arrested the demigods who were fleeing the pandal.

 

Maniman, one of the followers of Lord Siva, arrested Bhrgu Muni, and Virabhadra, the black demon, arrested Prajapati Daksa. Another follower, who was named Candesa, arrested Pusa. Nandisvara arrested the demigod Bhaga."

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 4:5:3-17

 

<center>

</center>

 

"The great sage Maitreya said: My dear Vidura, all the personalities present were very much satisfied in heart and soul upon hearing the words of Lord Siva, who is the best among the benedictors.

 

Thereafter, Bhrgu, the chief of the great sages, invited Lord Siva to come to the sacrificial arena. Thus the demigods, accompanied by the sages, Lord Siva, and Lord Brahma, all went to the place where the great sacrifice was being performed.

 

Purport: The whole sacrifice arranged by King Daksa had been disturbed by Lord Siva. Therefore all the demigods present there, along with Lord Brahma and the great sages, specifically requested Lord Siva to come and revive the sacrificial fire. There is a common phrase, siva-hina-yajna: "Any sacrifice without the presence of Lord Siva is baffled." Lord Visnu is Yajnesvara, the Supreme Personality in the matter of sacrifice, yet in each yajna it is necessary for all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahma and Lord Siva, to be present.

 

After everything was executed exactly as directed by Lord Siva, Daksa's body was joined to the head of the animal meant to be killed in the sacrifice.

 

Purport: This time, all the demigods and great sages were very careful not to irritate Lord Siva. Therefore whatever he asked was done. It is specifically said here that Daksa's body was joined to the head of an animal (a goat).

 

When the animal's head was fixed on the body of King Daksa, Daksa was immediately brought to consciousness, and as he awakened from sleep, the King saw Lord Siva standing before him.

 

At that time, when Daksa saw Lord Siva, who rides upon a bull, his heart, which was polluted by envy of Lord Siva, was immediately cleansed, just as the water in a lake is cleansed by autumn rains.

 

Purport: Here is an example of why Lord Siva is called auspicious. lf anyone sees Lord Siva with devotion and reverence, his heart is immediately cleansed. King Daksa was polluted by envy of Lord Siva, and yet by seeing him with a little love and devotion, his heart immediately became cleansed. In the rainy season, the reservoirs of water become dirty and muddy, but as soon as the autumn rain comes, all the water immediately becomes clear and transparent. Similarly, although Daksa's heart was impure because of his having slandered Lord Siva, for which he was severely punished, Daksa now came to consciousness, and just by seeing Lord Siva with veneration and respect, he became immediately purified."

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 4:7:6-10

 

Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Excerpted from texts and purports of HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.

 

[Guruvani]

According to Bhagavat Purana, this Virabhadra was not an incarnation of Shiva or a form of Shiva, rather a demon created by Lord Shiva.

[Guruvani]

One thing for sure, if you are performing a Vedic sacrifice in pursuance of karma-kanda rituals, you certainly don't want to forget to invite Lord Shiva to participate.

 

No doubt, Siva is the next most powerful god to Lord Vishnu.

 

His followers should definitely not piss him off by offending his Lord Krishna or the Vaishnavas.

[Guest guest]

Guruvaniji,

 

Do you agree with me that your behaviour falls short of what Mahaprabhu demanded of practitioners in His line? You certainly cannot claim to be evincing tolerance and humility. I never made any ludicrous claims of being highborn or cultured. I am myself a former meat-eating Kali-yuga patita, and am well aware of my innumerable defects. Besides, I hail from a Vaishya family, not Brahmin or Ksatriya. I call myself a Vaisnava based on vyavaharika, or relative considerations. However, from a paramarthika, or absolute, position, I certainly fail to reach the required standard by a long, long shot. I am a generic Vaisnava but most definitely not a siddha nor even a madhyama-bhakta, far from it.

 

My objective is not to be accomodating (even if it were, would that be a bad thing?) but to display the attitude expected of an aspirant Vaisnava. Neither of the two of us knows much at all about Saivism, Saktism or Advaita-vada. Better expend our time and energy exploring our own chosen tradition rather than make fools of ourselves fighting with others who do not toe the line set by our own egos. Do you know much about the greater Vaisnava religion? Would you be in a position to hold your own philosophically against a Sri Vaisnava, Tattvavadi, Nimbarkiya devotee or a follower of Vallabhacarya's pusti-marga? Have you studied visistavaita-vada, dvaita-vada, dvaitadvaita-vada or suddhadvaita-vada in any real depth? Have you even mastered Sri Caitanya's sublime philosophy of acintya-bhedabheda-tattva? For me, the answer to all these questions is a straight no, and so I know what I have to do. Spoiling my consciousness by attempting to defeat schools of thought that I happen not to to is a total no-no.

 

Once more, you resort to name-calling by terming the mantra I signed with as being the property of tantric sahajiyas, as if you know Gaudiya Vaisnavism better than individuals who have spent their entire lives in Vraja or Gauda-mandala. I am not saying that some improper or apasiddhantic practices have not infiltrated Caitanya Vaisnavism. But the general position in the Sarasvata parampara (certainly more so in ISKCON than in many Gaudiya Mathas) is to apply a blanket grouping of most/all traditional Gaudiya branches under the hideous and inaccurate characterisation sahajiya, or worse, caste gosvami/anti-party etc. This is farcical. Gaudiya Matha comes from traditional Gaudiya Vaisnavism, and ISKCON is a somewhat unfortunate offshoot of Gaudiya Matha. How can we be committed in any substantial manner to Gaudiya Vaisnavism if we deny our own spiritual roots any validity? The two foremost pioneers and reformers of Gaudiya Vaisnavism in the last 150 years have unquestionably been Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. If Lord Caitanya's sampradaya is being spread all over the globe in our times, it is essentially thanks to the vision and mercy of these two great souls. Yet the gurus of both Bhaktivinoda and Bhaktisiddhanta were traditional Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Even Bhaktivedanta Swami, who, with the blessings of his Guru and previous acaryas, preached and popularised Vaisnavism like no one else had done before, spent several years living with and associating with traditional Gaudiya Vaisnavas at the Radha-Damodar mandir in Vrndavana. You do not think twice before hurling abuses at those from traditional quarters, but one of the first devotees who opined that Bhaktivedanta Swami was empowered by Nityananda Prabhu to preach was the late Radha-Govinda dasa Babaji Maharaja of Radha-kunda. The latter even directed his own diksa disciple to Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The disciple concerned is the wonderful devotee whom we know today as Sripada Bhaktivedanta Sadhu Maharaja, who was instructed by Bhaktivedanta Swami to serve the temple built by his own grandfather in Vrndavana, amongst other things. I signed Nitai Gaura Radhe Shyam because I find this mantra beautiful, and because I am inspired by it. I certainly will not stand someone else decrying it out of sectarian or any other considerations. Furthermore, it is not a substitute for the maha-mantra/tarak brahma, but just one additional concept one may opt to meditate upon.

 

Having said this, I applaud your attachment to your selected mystical path, and wish you all the best in your pursuit.

 

Hare Krsna.

[Guruvani]

Vikram babu,

You don't know me really to be making such a severe assessment of my character. Yet, I do not pose myself or present myself as being any representative of Mahaprabhu or Prabhupada or anyone.

 

On the forums I play the role of the anti-party most of the time because I think it evokes thought, discussion and alternative ways of looking as issues. If we were all in here just having an orgy of brotherly love and mutual ego stroking of each other I think it would be very boring and intellectually constipating.

 

I don't think you need to go on some personal crusade to assail my character as I openly admit I am not any kind of representative of anybody.

 

I don't put tilak on my head nor do I wear Vaishnava vesh.

So, attacking me for being a bad representative is not fair because I am not posing as anybody.

 

Let's just stick to the issues and debate our own views with shastric information and not get all up into each others personal orafices over our own personalities.

 

I debate issues on the basis of the shastric information available to me.

Let's stick to the issues and avoid personal attacks on each other as you have been jabbing at me lately.

 

I am not out to satisfy every Shaiva, Buddhist, Muslim or Christian that comes in to the forum trying to minimize Lord Krishna. When they do that, I take the opportunity to hand them their ass if possible.

 

Sorry, that is just the kind of personality I have and I am not going to change over any tongue lashings from you babu.

 

Other than that, Srila Prabhupada specifically mentioned that "nitai gaura radhe syam" mantra as a mantra of the sahajiyas, so I think it is very unbecoming of you to be using that mantra as your personal slogan in your forum signature.

 

then again, my opinion isn't worth a rat's ass, so you shouldn't be very concerned about it.