Was Narasimha avatar slain by Virbhadra?

[Guest guest]

Dear devotees,

 

All this is making me so confused, is sanathan dharma contradictory? I am really beginning to question my faith now. Scriptures seem to contradict each other. Is there any evidence anywhere? And wasnt this thread originally about Narsimha avatar being slain? If this was written to prove a point about something, then I am so sorry, everyone has missed the point. Am I write in saying this?

 

 

 

 

Namah Shivaya Yogkriyaji,

 

Another nice piece from you. How about if we tell Guruvani that the biggest conspiracy is the Bhagavatam itself, i.e. that it was not written by Vyasa 5,000 years ago, but rather was inspired by the medieval Alvar tradition of South India, and dates back to around the year 800 CE. And that is what scholars who make a living out of critically analysing texts think. Where does this leave his arguments? I am a Gaudiya Vaisnava too, but the atrocious brand of extremism that is exhibited on this forum often renders me speechless. God has an infinity of forms, as well as a nirakara/formless aspect, and the fact that I am affiliated with a tradition to which He revealed His sublime form as a bluish-hued romantic adolescent does not invalidate His transcendental svarupa as the white-complexioned, blue-throated yogi who you worship so lovingly, dear mitra. Both you and I were blessed and fortunate enough to take birth in families genealogically connected to the great rishis of yore (I am of Kashyap gotra). Why waste our time and energy pointlessly arguing with sectarians who cannot see beyond the tips of their noses?

 

Please accept my pranams.

 

Radhe Radhe

 

 

 

 

The Vaisnava-oriented Upanisads all date from fairly recent times, and were obviously developed with exclusivist objectives in mind by a few unscrupulous brahmanas. Just read what Jan Brzezinski/Jagadananda dasa/Jagat has to say about this. By the way, he has been a practicing Gaudiya since around 1970, and holds a Ph.D. in Sanskrit. His very deep knowledge of our sampradaya is possessed by very few people alive on earth today. So, his opinion is authoritative, to say the least.

 

Pranams.

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

 

Pranams.

 

Om tat sat

 

Jaya Radhe

[Guruvani]

You are obviously ignorant about Vaishnavism if you think that Lord Siva is above Lord Vishnu.

It's told in the sattvic Puranas that Lord Siva is a transformation of Lord Maha Vishnu.

It is not ISKCON theology.

It's Vaishnava theology that all forms of Vaishnavism advocate.

 

It comes from sruti, smriti and Purana.

It is not made up by ISKCON.

 

Don't blame ISKCON for what all the most elevated Puranas teach.

 

All the great Vaishnava acharyas know that Siva-tattva is a transformation of Vishnu-tattva in touch with Prakriti.

 

Maybe you should study the shastra praman before you go making foolish accusations that make you look very foolish.

 

In all Vaishnavism all over India Lord Vishnu is above Lord Siva.

 

Otherwise, why did Lord Vishnu have to rescue Lord Siva from Vrkasura?

How did Lord Vishnu bewilder Lord Siva in front of Parvati and cause him to lose control of his senses and become mad after Mohini-murti?

 

Is is clear in the Puranas that Lord Siva had to be rescued by Lord Vishnu and that Lord Vishnu proved his greater power than Siva when he assumed the form of Mohini-murti and exposed the weakness of Lord Siva.

[Guest guest]

 

Namah Shivaya Yogkriyaji,

 

Another nice piece from you. How about if we tell Guruvani that the biggest conspiracy is the Bhagavatam itself, i.e. that it was not written by Vyasa 5,000 years ago, but rather was inspired by the medieval Alvar tradition of South India, and dates back to around the year 800 CE. And that is what scholars who make a living out of critically analysing texts think. Where does this leave his arguments? I am a Gaudiya Vaisnava too, but the atrocious brand of extremism that is exhibited on this forum often renders me speechless. God has an infinity of forms, as well as a nirakara/formless aspect, and the fact that I am affiliated with a tradition to which He revealed His sublime form as a bluish-hued romantic adolescent does not invalidate His transcendental svarupa as the white-complexioned, blue-throated yogi who you worship so lovingly, dear mitra. Both you and I were blessed and fortunate enough to take birth in families genealogically connected to the great rishis of yore (I am of Kashyap gotra). Why waste our time and energy pointlessly arguing with sectarians who cannot see beyond the tips of their noses?

 

Please accept my pranams.

 

Radhe Radhe

 

The Vaisnava-oriented Upanisads all date from fairly recent times, and were obviously developed with exclusivist objectives in mind by a few unscrupulous brahmanas. Just read what Jan Brzezinski/Jagadananda dasa/Jagat has to say about this. By the way, he has been a practicing Gaudiya since around 1970, and holds a Ph.D. in Sanskrit. His very deep knowledge of our sampradaya is possessed by very few people alive on earth today. So, his opinion is authoritative, to say the least.

Pranams.

 

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

 

Pranams.

 

Om tat sat

 

Jaya Radhe

 

Dear Vikram,

 

My Pranaams!

I can't help but agree with your spirit and what you have written. I really appreciate and respect such Gaudiyas or rather i wouldn't limit it into just one sampradaya. Sampradayas are for men. God is not really limited by any Samrpadaya to be honest. You have a fair understanding and outlook.

Appreciable. Thanks.

 

I belong to Shringa Rishi Gotra. Rishi Shringa was the one who carried out Putreshthi yagya for Maharaja Dasharatha after which the birth of Lord Shri Rama took place. Lord Rama and his lineage was Surya Vanshi Kshatriya as you may know. And Surya and Shiva worship was a tradition in the family. The kul Gurus were Vashishtha (a fully enlightened Brahma Rishi who's specific Shiva sadhna paddhati and direct Shiva darshan made him unique amongst others) and shri Vishwamitra (the great Brahma rishi who opened the Shri Ma Gayatri Devi for the benefit and purification of this world).

 

My beliefs contain Advaita and Dvaita siddhanta. I believe God to be formless and one having a form. In other words I believe in both his personal and imporsonal aspects. I've always felt myself to be suffocating within the boundary walls of limited God consciousness - a very limited understanding of the divine to just one aspect, form or a monoply of a limited sampradaya or its offshoot sect or cult movement. I'v found it hard to omit out parts of Bhagwad Gita or Mahabharata while quoting only selected parts. I believe in Shiva and Vishnu as two aspects of the same divinity - weilder of maya, prakriti and the three gunas, but beyond them and not affected by them.

And I believe in their energy which is the principle of Shaktism. Without Shakti nothing moves in this or other worlds. I think the whole God positioning agenda is foolish by pigmy people with inflated egos. I find hard to accept the definitions of tamasik scripture or Shiva as a tamsik god or one in the "mode of ignorance" as blatantly preached by some modern day HK cults. Nor do I sign under the Vishu 97 percent Shiva 75 percent etc limiting criterias set by some later day acharyas to the infinite divinity!

This is a hard maths to understand! How do you measure 78 percent of infinity??? Imagine the highly precise calculative intellect!!!

I'm a Shaiva Shakta and a Vaishnava. I believe in all the three major branches as a fuller picture of Sanatana Dharma. This is hard for the HKs to grasp and they shove me off. This, means nothing for them. As if I'm a Shaiva, I ought to be against the Vaishnavs by default and if I'm a Vaishnava, I can't accept anything Shaivic and all scriptures hailing Lord Shiva automatically become tamasic by means of various correct incorrect arguments. Further more, I've been a practicing sadhak more than a vedantic debater basing my view on Guru pradatt sadhna and experience.

I'd rather dive deep and swim in the ocean of my consciousness finding divinity than just sit on the shores in groups wearing specific clothes arguing and chating about the movements of swimming! This is my position. And I relate to the ancient vedic spiritual sciences of sadhnas. Not just philosophy and positions on God! Though I appreciate that as well.

Vedanta is good, but theory without practice is zero. Similarly, practice without right philosophy and direction is not much good either.

This is the only point that I've been trying to put across my learned vociforous scholar friends who have failed to understand that God cannot really be limited to their particular sect. That there are indeed other ways that make a sadhak successful and progress spiritually than just chating and arguing in the name of spirituality.

We can take all the scriptures and come to a decision with pramans etc.

WHAT NEXT??? The usual fanatical HK arguments presented here by some die hard fanatics are about who is higher than whom, who's scripture is 'higher' than the other and what he said is only right and that the HK sampradaya is the coolest one on this planet and that the Hindus are hodge podge confused dudes etc.. OK. Let's say we agreed. What then? We have to move from this point further up. Read more books? Bring on more arguments? Whats the use? What are we going to attain by this? Get a few more people added to our group, collect more funds from them and make another temple building and pay or sundry expense lists? While the temple of the Lord in our hearts / anahat chakra left out in ignorance, unseen, unknown, unrealized?!

 

I remembered Shri Yudhishthir's story as a child...

One day the teacher gave the children a shloka to memorize and learn by heart. The shloka had a meaning similar to "I won't have anger, will respect my elders, have more patience....." well something like this (can't seem to remember the exact shloka now, i read it in primary school). So nexrt day all the students come and recite it memorized well, except Yudhishthira. He is given another chance. Yet another day goes by but Yudhishthira cannot remember the shloka. so a few days go by thus. Now the teacher is a bit annoyed and makes him stand out in the sun. When he is asked why he can't remember such a simple quote, Yudhishthira says truthfully, that he still has some anger and is not all that patient... how can he lie about having learnt the shloka when he hasn't yet developed its qualities in his life? The teacher was much pleased and tells the class that in fact only Yudhishthira was able to learn the shloka.

 

And by this standard, I haven't been able to learn a lot of scriptures that i still shy off from quoting.

Still I'm amazed by the ability of the learned scholars on this forum who 'copy-paste' quotes after quotes from scriptures here and there, from BBT/vedabase re productions of scriptures in their sect's light and fiercely fight their way off with them to put their particular cults' views to the public. This is all fine as far as aggressive marketing strategies are concerned. But as far as one's personal spiritual progress is concerned, I doubt this attitude goes any far than just inflating personal ego in a constant attempt to deflate someone else's ego.

 

I've found a very defensive and in fact offensive attitude of western HKs whom Indians usually appreciate because of their background and that they have accepted Bhagwat devotion in their lives to this extent. But coming closer in discussion, have found them to be more aggressive and defensive towards the Hindus (who they think are a major competition to them in the spirituality brand they r trying to promote) calling them illiterate on scriptural knowledge etc.. Its not uncommon for an American fanatical HK to attack a so called Hindu on various fronts just to put him and Hinduism down at the same time all HK organizations catering to Hindu groups there for monetary, social and political fronts and going to them for above said support. I've been in association with iskcon and other Gaudiya organizations for at least 20 years now and have seen the attitudes and beliefs thoroughly inside out. And I can always spot out where there is a sincere non judgemental person who is trying to see the same paramatma in you as in him and where there is judgemental, putting down arrogant person ready to put you down the moment you dare to disagree with his set belief. And sadly the later is more prominent than the first one. Though I've met some really sweet devotees, who have no interest in the religious politics.

I've also seen defeating strategies on this forum that include silently blocking IP addresses of potential "opponents" without any sort of explainations, right after putting up an argument by one of the so called members, so that one may not be able to answer etc.. a practice that is not fair but very cheap and shallow. I used to be a senior member an year back. Then suddenly I found out that my membership was blocked out, after I tried to prove to another furious member that Lord Shiva is NOT a sinful entity as he tried to prove. Now my IP is blocked again And a few of my posts were also deleted. Anyways...

 

It was a pleasure to know and see you don't belong to the second category but possess a fair non biased judgement of your own and I feel you yearn to respect and love the Lord in all his forms and ways of worship. I'm glad you have Shri Gaudiya teachings of love and devotion close to your heart and alo respect and love for Lord Shiva. I hope you progress well in your spiritual and material life by the blessings of Guru and the Lord!

Please accept my best wishes!!

Love,

 

Yogkriya.

 

 

P.S. As far as Guruvani and his promoters are concerned, they will keep on to this fighting agenda, unless you agree with him 100 percent. For that you will have to become American HK and hate the Hindus and the Shaivs and majority of Indians while posing authentic 'Gaudiya' bhakta.

[Guest guest]

 

You are obviously ignorant about Vaishnavism if you think that Lord Siva is above Lord Vishnu.

It's told in the sattvic Puranas that Lord Siva is a transformation of Lord Maha Vishnu.

It is not ISKCON theology.

It's Vaishnava theology that all forms of Vaishnavism advocate.

 

It comes from sruti, smriti and Purana.

It is not made up by ISKCON.

 

Don't blame ISKCON for what all the most elevated Puranas teach.

 

All the great Vaishnava acharyas know thta Siva-tattva is a transformation of Vishnu-tattva in touch with Prakriti.

 

Maybe you should study the shastra praman before you go making foolish accusations that make you look very foolish.

 

In all Vaishnavism all over India Lord Vishnu is above Lord Siva.

 

Otherwise, why did Lord Vishnu have to rescue Lord Siva from Vrkasura?

How did Lord Vishnu bewilder Lord Siva in front of Parvati and cause him to lose control of his senses and become mad after Mohini-murti?

 

Is is clear in the Puranas that Lord Siva had to be rescued by Lord Vishnu and that Lord Vishnu proved his greater power than Siva when he assumed the form of Mohini-murti and exposed the weakness of Lord Siva.

 

 

In Mohini incident Lord Shiva purposefully let his devotee overpower him by giving a boon that could

even kill him,thats his greatness,dont take his kindness for weakness...the trick that Lord Visnu pulled any God wouldve done,

you think Muruga or Vinayaka cant change their form?

As far Lord Shiva being seduced

by Mohini,he wasnt,he was adoring that Roopa of the Lord like all of them and he being the Male form of that

Shakthi had the authority to union with it and had Iyyapa was born,so it wasnt weakness,Visnu didnt take that form to seduce Siva,Visnu is the female

power and Shiva the male,its hypocricy to think a Male energy getting attracted to Female,unless you are Gay.(Not trying to insult you but

the truth is only in our country is sex and intercourse viewed as such a sin and attraction a weakness)

If you think that is weakness then whole of Krsna avatar with full of perverted incidents is weak.

Krsna for all his greatness was killed at the end and couldnt even save his favorite pupil Abhimanyu,if Karna out of charity hadnt given

his Kavacha not even Krsna couldve killed him,so you are calling that also a weakness,kindness is not a weakness.

Where was Lord Krishna when Pandavas were arrogant and egoistic that provoked Duryodana and Karna to avenge the insults?

Where was he when Abhimanyu was slain?Wasnt he his only student?

Arjuna despite hearing that BGeetha still had huge ego and pride that killed him when all Pandavas set their journey to heaven,so the teachers teaching didnt

even reach his favorite disciple.

He himself died after the war and all his generations killed each other,he just played his role like everyother being who did their Karma.

 

If Lord Visnu was the only superior God then why didnt he drink the poison that came out,Lord Visnus avatars have won against Demons

after Great difficulty with Treachary and lies,these were after all battles where enemies were devotees of Lord Shiva.If Lord Shivas devotees

are that powerful just imagine Shiva himself.

Shiva is Rudra,and Pralaya Kala Rudran destroys the world in a flash.No one can stop him if he wants to destroy,he is the only one who

has rewritten fates of so many devotees out of Kindness,he Burnt his wife to ashes and then made her his half to show the world Man and women are equal

 

Visnu had to pray to Lord Shiva in the Ramayana battle when he was Rama,he had to pray to Lord Shiva to get the Sudarshan Chakra,before

the advent of ISKCON nowhere did i ever read that Lord Shiva himself was a Vaishnavaite and used to pray to Vishnu.

Vishnu had to wait for a long long time till the powers of Hiranyakashipu were fading to come kill him,why didnt he kill him when he conquered all the three worlds?

Parasurama Avatar was tricked by Karna they say,if he was a Avatar of Visnu cant he know that Karna was Surya putra and not a Brahmin or Sudaputra?

Trinity means 3 Gods who are equal in power and different roles.Shaivaites never degrade Vishnu whereas ISKCONs say Vishnu is the only

superior God and all others are Demi Gods

 

I am a Vaishnavaite by birth and our family god is Tirumala Balaji but doesnt mean we are going to consider Lord Shiva Inferior.

 

Moroever there is no rule that only Prabupadas words are to be taken as truth,if that is the case then Christian Missionaries talk similar to that,again i am not

a Prabupada hater(so dont brand me like that and divert the topic anyone),i am insisting to one and all that ISKCON is the only cult to put Lord Shiva down,it appears

like a fan club of one Movie star or Sports man where all other stars become second best to them..so all puranas need to be taken into consideration before passing

judgement,if the other puranas need to be ignored as stories then what Prabupada says is no different..

 

Lord Shiva is the one who feeds us and the Lord of the Universe,he is so kind and easy to please,material world might be temporary but what do you know of the other world

of Visnu,it doesnt seem permenent either,did you know Ravana and Kumbhkarna were gate keepers there and had to come to earth?

If you feel like the other world of Visnu is the best and this useless then you should be like Prahalada and fully give up material life to pursue it,cant have the cake as well

as eat it,we are being fed by Shiva and be thankful for his mercy...Health Wealth Knowledge Family et all been granted by one and only Shiva..

[Guruvani]

 

In Mohini incident Lord Shiva purposefully let his devotee overpower him by giving a boon that could

even kill him,thats his greatness,dont take his kindness for weakness...the trick that Lord Visnu pulled any God wouldve done,

you think Muruga or Vinayaka cant change their form?

As far Lord Shiva being seduced

by Mohini,he wasnt,he was adoring that Roopa of the Lord like all of them and he being the Male form of that

Shakthi had the authority to union with it and had Iyyapa was born,so it wasnt weakness,Visnu didnt take that form to seduce Siva,Visnu is the female

power and Shiva the male,its hypocricy to think a Male energy getting attracted to Female,unless you are Gay.(Not trying to insult you but

the truth is only in our country is sex and intercourse viewed as such a sin and attraction a weakness)

If you think that is weakness then whole of Krsna avatar with full of perverted incidents is weak.

Krsna for all his greatness was killed at the end and couldnt even save his favorite pupil Abhimanyu,if Karna out of charity hadnt given

his Kavacha not even Krsna couldve killed him,so you are calling that also a weakness,kindness is not a weakness.

Where was Lord Krishna when Pandavas were arrogant and egoistic that provoked Duryodana and Karna to avenge the insults?

Where was he when Abhimanyu was slain?Wasnt he his only student?

Arjuna despite hearing that BGeetha still had huge ego and pride that killed him when all Pandavas set their journey to heaven,so the teachers teaching didnt

even reach his favorite disciple.

He himself died after the war and all his generations killed each other,he just played his role like everyother being who did their Karma.

 

If Lord Visnu was the only superior God then why didnt he drink the poison that came out,Lord Visnus avatars have won against Demons

after Great difficulty with Treachary and lies,these were after all battles where enemies were devotees of Lord Shiva.If Lord Shivas devotees

are that powerful just imagine Shiva himself.

Shiva is Rudra,and Pralaya Kala Rudran destroys the world in a flash.No one can stop him if he wants to destroy,he is the only one who

has rewritten fates of so many devotees out of Kindness,he Burnt his wife to ashes and then made her his half to show the world Man and women are equal

 

Visnu had to pray to Lord Shiva in the Ramayana battle when he was Rama,he had to pray to Lord Shiva to get the Sudarshan Chakra,before

the advent of ISKCON nowhere did i ever read that Lord Shiva himself was a Vaishnavaite and used to pray to Vishnu.

Vishnu had to wait for a long long time till the powers of Hiranyakashipu were fading to come kill him,why didnt he kill him when he conquered all the three worlds?

Parasurama Avatar was tricked by Karna they say,if he was a Avatar of Visnu cant he know that Karna was Surya putra and not a Brahmin or Sudaputra?

Trinity means 3 Gods who are equal in power and different roles.Shaivaites never degrade Vishnu whereas ISKCONs say Vishnu is the only

superior God and all others are Demi Gods

 

I am a Vaishnavaite by birth and our family god is Tirumala Balaji but doesnt mean we are going to consider Lord Shiva Inferior.

 

Moroever there is no rule that only Prabupadas words are to be taken as truth,if that is the case then Christian Missionaries talk similar to that,again i am not

a Prabupada hater(so dont brand me like that and divert the topic anyone),i am insisting to one and all that ISKCON is the only cult to put Lord Shiva down,it appears

like a fan club of one Movie star or Sports man where all other stars become second best to them..so all puranas need to be taken into consideration before passing

judgement,if the other puranas need to be ignored as stories then what Prabupada says is no different..

 

Lord Shiva is the one who feeds us and the Lord of the Universe,he is so kind and easy to please,material world might be temporary but what do you know of the other world

of Visnu,it doesnt seem permenent either,did you know Ravana and Kumbhkarna were gate keepers there and had to come to earth?

If you feel like the other world of Visnu is the best and this useless then you should be like Prahalada and fully give up material life to pursue it,cant have the cake as well

as eat it,we are being fed by Shiva and be thankful for his mercy...Health Wealth Knowledge Family et all been granted by one and only Shiva..

 

I admire Indian people, but really when you go to debate and discuss Vedic theology you have to do better than coughing-up Hindu folk tales that are simply distorted remnants of Puranic lore.

 

In the Gaudiya sect they are very particular that all theological arguments must be supported with proper and exacting reference from the authentic Vedic literatures.

 

Needless to say that many distortions and misconceptions have been evolved over the centuries in India as many, many false gurus and acharyas have presented their confused understanding of Sanatan Dharma.

[Guruvani]

 

r.

 

Moroever there is no rule that only Prabupadas words are to be taken as truth,if that is the case then Christian Missionaries talk similar to that,again i am not

a Prabupada hater(so dont brand me like that and divert the topic anyone)

I ask if you please not present distorted and false images that the Gaudiya theology is the invention of Prabhupada.

 

Prabhupada exactly presented the same Gaudiya theology that has been presented by direct disciples of Sri Mahaprabhu, so please don't be rude and unfair and making false accusations that ISKCON follows something other than the same Gaudiya siddhanta that was promulgated by Sri Caitanyadeva.

[Guest guest]

 

I ask if you please not present distorted and false images that the Gaudiya theology is the invention of Prabhupada.

 

Prabhupada exactly presented the same Gaudiya theology that has been presented by direct disciples of Sri Mahaprabhu, so please don't be rude and unfair and making false accusations that ISKCON follows something other than the same Gaudiya siddhanta that was promulgated by Sri Caitanyadeva.

oh well people like you are present to distort the gaudiyas! Why should anyone else care?!

Prabhupada and the GBC had oppositions with the Gaudiyas on a number of issues.

[Guest guest]

 

 

I admire Indian people, but really when you go to debate and discuss Vedic theology you have to do better than coughing-up Hindu folk tales that are simply distorted remnants of Puranic lore.

 

In the Gaudiya sect they are very particular that all theological arguments must be supported with proper and exacting reference from the authentic Vedic literatures.

 

Needless to say that many distortions and misconceptions have been evolved over the centuries in India as many, many false gurus and acharyas have presented their confused understanding of Sanatan Dharma.

 

Now do we have to learn that from you what shastra praman is?

What a joke! Watch gangs of New York and learn your very own 300 year old history! Bomb other countries and write in God we trust! lol!

"classic hodge-podge Hindu sect? Classic HK disturbed cult member! Dum maro dum! lol!

[Guest guest]

 

oh well people like you are present to distort the gaudiyas! Why should anyone else care?!

Prabhupada and the GBC had oppositions with the Gaudiyas on a number of issues.

 

 

Thanks Guest,that is exactly my point,Prabupada changes stance from to time with whatever that suits him and we should just accept it as it is?

For example he says no to Scientists but he says we should respect Doctors(well supposedely he was very sick so he needed their help)but what Hypocricy this is,without the inventions of Devices,machines and medicines of scientist what will Doctors treat patients with?

Same way now this user is bringing Gaugya to defend ISCKCON,if that was the case what about Shiva Purana or Ramayana(in which Rama prays Lord Shiva)or so many Puranas and Ethihasas depicting Shiva to be equal to Vishnu and at times even more powerful?Why cant they be taken into account?

[muralidhar_das]

Classic HK disturbed cult member!

[Guest guest]

 

I admire Indian people, but really when you go to debate and discuss Vedic theology you have to do better than coughing-up Hindu folk tales that are simply distorted remnants of Puranic lore.

 

In the Gaudiya sect they are very particular that all theological arguments must be supported with proper and exacting reference from the authentic Vedic literatures.

 

Needless to say that many distortions and misconceptions have been evolved over the centuries in India as many, many false gurus and acharyas have presented their confused understanding of Sanatan Dharma.

 

 

This is the most arrogant posting ive ever seen,so you are telling people like me who read Puranas and quote them as that we are just coughing up folklore that are deemed irrelevant and insignificant by ur prabupada,if u talk like this then tell us who is he anyway?what is his history,lets see how competent he was and why is he the one and only person who is enlightened

[Guest guest]

 

Thanks Guest,that is exactly my point,Prabupada changes stance from to time with whatever that suits him and we should just accept it as it is?

For example he says no to Scientists but he says we should respect Doctors(well supposedely he was very sick so he needed their help)but what Hypocricy this is,without the inventions of Devices,machines and medicines of scientist what will Doctors treat patients with?

Same way now this user is bringing Gaugya to defend ISCKCON,if that was the case what about Shiva Purana or Ramayana(in which Rama prays Lord Shiva)or so many Puranas and Ethihasas depicting Shiva to be equal to Vishnu and at times even more powerful?Why cant they be taken into account?

If one would remember some of his instructions, he called names to hindus and Hinduism, but told his followers, its ok to go to the Hindus for support and donations! Double HK standard no. 1.

[muralidhar_das]

Sivaya Subramaniyaswami pointed out that Srila Prabhupada had said that ISKCON is not Hindu. It is true. ISKCON is not a part of Hindu society.

 

But who is Hindu? In Sri Chaitanya Caritamrta http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/17/en you see that Sri Chaitanya Himself said his devotees are Hindus.

[Guruvani]

 

Sivaya Subramaniyaswami pointed out that Srila Prabhupada had said that ISKCON is not Hindu. It is true. ISKCON is not a part of Hindu society.

 

But who is Hindu? In Sri Chaitanya Caritamrta http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/17/en you see that Sri Chaitanya Himself said his devotees are Hindus.

 

Well, that is the language that Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami used.

Whether or not that is the exact terminology used by Mahaprabhu is debatable.

[Guest guest]

 

This is the most arrogant posting ive ever seen,so you are telling people like me who read Puranas and quote them as that we are just coughing up folklore that are deemed irrelevant and insignificant by ur prabupada,if u talk like this then tell us who is he anyway?what is his history,lets see how competent he was and why is he the one and only person who is enlightened

Prabhupada or any of his disciples never could claim him to be enlightened!

He wasn't. he was a good orator, translator and Acharya. his full name bears the word "Acharya". In Hindu thought, Acharya is a teacher, and is not necessarily a Guru! Guru is enlightened. Shri Prabhupada was no doubt a well balanced spiritual personality, but I think he took the HK thing off the edge and to establish his own movement away from its craddle, he at times went on to oppose just about anyone who seemed to stand in his way. Hindus were the first attacked. Though the very ticket that made his journey possible to America from where he started his religious career as the founder of Iskcon, was donate generously by a Hindu. Later the organization he good heartedly started, but did sow some seeds of anti Hindu anti others attitude took another form. Sadly a lot of HKs like Guruvani are seen out there in the arena with a sole intention to bash Hindus down calling them hodgepodge folklore etc etc. whereas Hinduism / Sanatana Dharma has been around for thousands and thousands of years, whereas the gaudiya sampradaya was only born some 500 or so years ago. More so the later separate away cults were born even as early as 10 to 30 years ago. Now they want to prove their authority over all others.

hence the overly aggressive behavior and Hindu bashing and attitudes!!

This is distorting an otherwise good bhakti movement of the Gaudiyas started by Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu whos sole interest was the propagation of Lord Krsna's name and his bhakti. He never claimed to be krishna himself as claimed by his followers.

[Guest guest]

 

Well, that is the language that Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami used.

Whether or not that is the exact terminology used by Mahaprabhu is debatable.

Your purpose is to debate. So debate! Don't believe anything! Debate debate and keep on debating. Now Mahaprabhu is not there, you can debate anything on his behalf and put others down! How convenient! You don't accept the language they used even. What else would you accept? Mahaprabhu was not interested in the least in your terminology trip! Otherwise he would have also written books after books. He was interested in the essence of the words behind which the terminology is playing. Kaviraj said Hindu, means Hindu! Finish!! On the basis of your hodge podge garbage terminology we can also prove that the followers of Chaitanya are all hodge podge, since kaviraj acknowledged he was Hindu since being a devotee of Chaitanya and he saying Chaitanya said his devotees are Hindus. Now you can separate the two for your own made up terminological inventions and political motives to keep up your cult importance!

[muralidhar_das]

 

Well, that is the language that Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami used.

Whether or not that is the exact terminology used by Mahaprabhu is debatable.

 

OK, I will rephrase what I said.

 

Krishnadas Kaviraj said that the devotees in the sankirtan of Mahaprabhu are Hindus.

[muralidhar_das]

 

Well, that is the language that Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami used.

Whether or not that is the exact terminology used by Mahaprabhu is debatable.

 

Let me get this right.

 

Do you suggest that Sri Chaitanya did not really say the words in Chaitanya Charitamrta that Kaviraj Gosai says he spoke?

 

None of the things Sri Chaitanya said in CC were really his actual words?

 

This is an interesting idea. Please elaborate on that for the stupid Hindus like me who cannot understand real philosophy.

[Guest guest]

 

Let me get this right.

 

Do you suggest that Sri Chaitanya did not really say the words in Chaitanya Charitamrta that Kaviraj Gosai says he spoke?

 

None of the things Sri Chaitanya said in CC were really his actual words?

 

This is an interesting idea. Please elaborate on that for the stupid Hindus like me who cannot understand real philosophy.

 

Well Guruvani says that it has to be shstric pramaan. And he has his own criterias for that. real Vedic ones. Right out of Bronx!! And CC comes in some Veda..... right?.... ummm... maybe not.. but it is Shastra.. sort of..!

[Guest guest]

 

Let me get this right.

 

Do you suggest that Sri Chaitanya did not really say the words in Chaitanya Charitamrta that Kaviraj Gosai says he spoke?

 

None of the things Sri Chaitanya said in CC were really his actual words?

 

This is an interesting idea. Please elaborate on that for the stupid Hindus like me who cannot understand real philosophy.

He's (guruvani) still flipping the pages of vedabase to find a defeating answer with quotes! ;-) So I suggest you should wait for a while. He's gonna surface soon with a new attack on the Hindus! lol!

[Guest guest]

 

As far Guruvani,he must be busy getting ready for his trip to GOLOKA.

oh Yes. Guruvani should be getting his ticket to Goloka soon enough. He has earned it well with his hindu bashing and Shivait bashing arrogant pursuits. Now he will get a role as one of the gopi's maid servants there and will be taught not to bash other people by letting him milk 500 cows everyday. This way he will be learning to develop some patience.

 

 

As far Prabupada not realising that Westerners will be filled with Hate for Hinduism,see the truth is most of them really dont care,they got so much to enjoy that they just dont give a damn,even if they did they are smart enough to know this is Hate Politics and i dont see any Hare Krsnas so far in my 9 yrs in USA,except for the Desis who are deep into it,for westereners these r like Comics Spiderman or Batman or Superman,who is best,thats how they view Krsna and Vishnu..

 

Yes this is true. Most Americans don't give a damn about them. And so do the Indians!! They claim that a lot of Indians are leaving Hinduism and coming to us. Which is false. They just are trying to boost up their lost rating value. Iskcon has lost it in US, especially after this molesting and other suits!