Sri Vaisnava Influence in ISKCON

[Guest guest]

Sri Vaisnava Influence in ISKCON

BY: PAYONIDHI DASA

Jun 3, MARYLAND, USA (SUN) — For many years we have observed with frustration how ISKCON has become more and more influenced by Sri Vaisnava ideas. Strangely enough, when it comes to accepting them on issues like Ahovalam being the place of Lord Narasimhadeva's Appearance place, then some refuse to accept. However on issues of Deity worship and tattva, Sri Vaisnavas have gotten a foothold in ISKCON.

Recently at the opening of the Radha Krsna temple in Tirupati, the Sri Vaisnavas did all the pujas for the Deity installation, and they sure did a good job at it. But ISKCON should install their own Deities, and the worship should be in line with our Acaryas and with the Deities installed, too.

There has been much controversy over certain Deities in ISCKON, like Radha Partha Sarathi and Rukmini Dvarakadisha -- and you can find this again being discussed on a Dandavats.com (our comment is Varahanarasimha).

In Mayapur they once had many brahmacaries chant Vedic mantras. While it was considered out of our line it was attractive yajnas, and was a great preaching tool. We have personally done a yajna for the Hinduja family in Boston (1992) and they liked it so much, that a bigger one was done in Mumbai at their residence. Bhakti Vidya Purna Maharaja and the brahmacaries from Mayapur ran the show. (1993). But yajnas should be done according to Gaudiya Vaisnava tradition, then having them is wonderful. More research needs to be done in this matter, mainly from Hari Bhakti Vilasa and some similar texts.

The program Bhakti Vidya Purna Maharaja had was more in line with the Sri Vaisnavas, but very elaborate. The program I did in Boston was very simple yajna with Purusha sukta and some talks about the glories of Vrindavan, then I offered them holy water from many kunjas and lakes in Vrindavan, and told the glories of each place (without committing the 9 offense to the Holy Name). Now the program in the Hindujas' house was great, as many persons came: politicians, movie stars, business people, etc., but later, thinking about it, it should have been done the Gaudiya Vaisnava way. Whatever that was, there was no sweet kirtan and bhajan at this program, so it was not pleasing to me as the Maha mantra was not chanted congregationally, and chanting the Holy Name is the real yajna.

Similarly, Deity worship has to be done according to Gaudiya Vaisnava tradition. Better to follow our tradition of worship of Radha Krsna, Gaura Nitai and Jagannath, Baladeva and Subhadra, and avoid any other Forms of the Lord for worship except Lord Narasimhadeva. This is really more our line.

Installation of Vyenkatesvara is not wanted in ISKCON. This is not the mood of our Acaryas. Now at ISKCON Tirupati the beautiful forms of Radha Krsna and the astha Sakhis are there, so wonderful in the midst of the land of Sri Vaisnavas. But next time Deities are being installed, ISKCON should have their own trained persons doing this. This will be the best. And it should be done in the Gaudiya Vaisnava way. Our pujari department in Mayapur seems to be fully competent for this task. Yes, Srila Prabhupada had outside Vaisnavas do the installation of Krsna Balarama in Vrindvan, but who knew about these things in 1975?

One Yajna that I liked very much was the Vaisnava homa they used to do on ekadasi in Mayapur. Whatever that came from was wonderful, as it offers obeisences to all great Vaisnavas, acaryas, Radha Krsna and all their associates, Lord Caitanya and associates. All these suktas are very nice and can be seen in relationship to Radha Madhava too, so there is really no harm, but it is really not our line. That Vaisnava homa could be chanted on Ekadasi with fire yajna, accompanied and followed by a huge kirtana -- that would be wonderful. Or just have the huge Kirtana. Param Vijayate Sri Krsna Sankirtanam.

There is no necessity of installing a Laksmi-Narayana Deity

I had a lengthy discussion with Gaura Kesava Prabhu about worship of Radha Krsna, and my final appeal is that Laxmi Narayana not be installed and worshipped in ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada wrote:

"We worship Laksmi-Narayana, and because Radha-Krishna includes Laksmi-Narayana, there is no necessity of installing a Laksmi-Narayana Deity." (Letter, 69/1/24)

Srila Prabhupada clearly states not to install Laxmi Narayana, so in Bangalore you have all gone in direct violation of Srila Prabhupada's instruction. We agree on the references of mood of worship as a general rule for temple worship, and there is and can be no dispute about this. But why did you fail to read the last line:

"there is no necessity of installing a Laksmi-Narayana Deity"

Based on what authority was Venkatesvara installed?

Gaura Kesava Prabhu wrote:

"Excuse me! The "some persons" who established Lord Venkateshvara (as well as the other deities) in ISKCON Bangalore include, HH Jayapataka Swami, HH Bhanu Swami, HH Bhaktividya Purna Swami, and myself (not to mention many other devotees)."

My response: I still see this as a mistake based on Srila Prabhupada's clear instruction. You simply don't get it, dear Prabhu. I will gladly hear any instruction from Srila Prabhupada that allows such worship. My challenge is, it does not exist. The ball is in your court. But now the Lord has been invited and must be worshipped. How many more Visnu deities do you plan to install in ISKCON? This practice based on Srila Prabhupada's instructions should be banned. No more Visnu deities in ISKCON, please.

Your servant,

Payonidhi das

[suchandra]

 

Our pujari department in Mayapur seems to be fully competent for this task.

Well Payonidhi prabhu, the pujari department at Krishna Balaram Mandir is run by the Gaudiya-matha, in Mayapur similiar trend is to be found. As Srila Prabhupada says, in SB, human society is getting closer, welcome in the New World Order:

 

We must know the present need of human society. And what is that need? Human society is no longer bounded by geographical limits to particular countries or communities. Human society is broader than in the Middle Ages, and the world tendency is toward one state or one human society.

[Beggar]

 

Well Payonidhi prabhu, the pujari department at Krishna Balaram Mandir is run by the Gaudiya-matha, in Mayapur similiar trend is to be found. As Srila Prabhupada says, in SB, human society is getting closer, welcome in the New World Order:

How can you compare the Gaudiya Math and Sri Vaisnavism? Srila Prabhupada was once a member of the Gaudiya Math. It is this very anti-Gaudiya Math paranoia that led to going outside our guru parivar for information on diety worship in the first place.

[Guruvani]

The fact is that in deity worship in Gaudiya temples is performed under regulative principles of vidhi-marga.

 

As such, the service of deity worship is actually under the aishvarya principles and the service is actually received by the Laxmi-Narayana aspect of their Lordships.

 

You cannot worship Radha-Krishna with regulative principles of deity worship. Deity worship is actually accepted by the Laxmi-Narayana feature of the Lord.

 

In the temples we might see "Radha-Krishna" deities, but actually our service in regulative principles can only be accepted by Laxmi-Narayana.

 

Radha-Krishna can only be worshipped in raga-marga.

Deity worship is vidhi-marga.

 

Only the spontaneous love is accepted by Radha-Krishna and that spontaneous love can also be there in deity worship as an underlying principle, but the prominently visible aspect is regulative service in vidhi-marga.

 

So, all deity worship of Radha-Krishna in Gaudiya temples is actually accepted through the Laxmi-Narayana feature of the Lord.

 

Laxmi-Narayana is included in Radha-Krishna, but Radha-Krishna is not included in Laxmi-Narayan, in as much as Laxmi-Narayana cannot be worshipped in raga-marga.

 

Radha-Krishna can be worshipped in vidhi-marga but that worship is accepted by them in their Laxmi-Narayana aspect.

 

so, even though there are Radha-Krishna deities in most all the Gaudiya temples, Laxmi-Narayana is also there to accept the archan-seva offered in the vidhi-marga.

 

Radha-Parthasarathi worship in the temples is Laxmi-Narayana worship really, only with the concept that this Laxmi is actually a form of Radharani in Vrindavan.

 

It's actually a very high concept that a devotee can see that even when Krishna goes to battle at Kurukshetra that Srimati Radharani never leaves his side as his internal pleasure potency.

 

Radha and Krishna can never be seperated even when Krishna goes to war at Kurukshetra.

 

So, Radha-Parthasarathi worship represents a bhava that even when Krishna goes to battle at Kurukshetra his devotees never forgets that his heart is always with Radha in Vrindavan.

 

But, factually, the deity worship in vidhi-marga is acceptable to the Lord only in his form as Laxmi-Narayan.

[Guest guest]

Talks with Basu Gosh

BY: PAYONIDHI DASA

Jun 9, MARYLAND, USA (SUN) — The following exchange took place with Basu Gosh Prabhu, and some of it was presented to many leading devotees in an ongoing discussion about not worshiping Laxmi Narayana in ISKCON. Please also see my previous article, "Sri Vaisnava Influence in ISKCON".

Basu Gosh Prabhu has brought up a question about Lord Narasimha:

"Lakshmi Nrsimha worship was done by Bhaktivinod Thakur: his Deities are still worshipped at the Yogapith at Mayapur."

I responded, saying "I am aware of that he also had darshan of Lord Narasimha at Narasimha palli, what is the point?" To which Basu Ghosh Prabhu wrote:

Srila Prabhupada did NOT establish such worship in his lifetime - "fact is fact". Your logic fails, since Lakshmi Nrsimha is non-different from Lakshmi Narayana. But then, we worship Radha Krishna in "opulence" like Lakshmi Narayana. Lakshi Narayana are non-different from Radha Krishna. Likewise, Sita Rama, which I suppose SP had authorized for installation at Juhu temple - even though he did not live to see it's inauguration, are also Lakshmi Narayana. SP writing that we don't worship Lakshmi Narayana can be taken as a "time and circumstance" instruction, therefore, otherwise you please cancel the worship of Sita Rama and Lakshmi Nrsimha. Murari Gupta was told by Mahaprabhu to give up the worship of Sita Rama and worship Radha Krishna. Murari Gupta, hearing this, decided to end his life by committing suicide, since he was unable to give up "the lotus feet of Raghunath". See the relevant verses in CC Madhya-lila, 15th chapter, beginning from verse 135 - where Mahaprabhu says that the Ganga (Ganges) is the form of the Lord! When Murari Gupta told Mahaprabhu of his determination, Mahaprabhu embraced him. Prabhu, you are making controversy and "kalaha" - agitation - for naught. What is the aim? You please worship shaligrama peacefully and continue the noble service of preaching by distributing books. But making conflict with various devotees via e-mail won't help your bhakti-lata, will it? You kindly answer this question yourself.

My point is very simple: Mahaprabhu, and Radha Krsna worship is the main tradition of out Sampradaya. In ISKCON, some accuse Narayana Maharaja of omitting Vasudeva Krsna. Do we want to omit Radha Krsna in Vrindavan from ISCKON and just see Laxmi Narayana? This extroverted vision is not pleasing. After having read the Caitanya-caritamrta for so many years , you should also know the conclusion of the CC. I quoted Srila Prabhupada stating Laxmi Narayana should not be worshipped. Srila Prabhupada established Narasimhadeva worship in ISKCON, but never Laxmi Narayana. There is a difference, though you are trying to take a cheap shot here, Gaudiya Vasinavas don't worship Laxmi Narayana, it is very simple.

Venkatesvara was established with the idea there would be financial gain, and from this offense alone ISKCON lost that temple to the Riviks and will never get it back, as Srila Prabhupada does not want Laxmi Narayana worship. Keep establishing Visnu deities in ISKCON and the reactions will be very grave. This is my stern warning. ISKCON is not Sri Sampradaya. You are the one making conflict by not accepting Srila Prabhupada's version and harming your lata bija. The result is seen in the lack of understanding of Krsna's in Vrindavan and what is our line.

I find this not a bit more unintelligent than the persons that allowed demigod worship in ISKCON. These rascals polluted Srila Prabhupada's movement, and it stopped only thanks to some intelligent persons on the GBC who passed laws against this in 1996. This is also a deviation.

Lord Caitanya asked so many persons to worship Radha Krsna. If some had a different mood that was accepted, but Gaudiya Vaisnavas don't establish temples of Venkatesvara. And if millions of persons disagree, I am not impressed. This ends any further discussion.

I have done my duty, and warned leaders in ISKCON to please not establish more Visnu deities. This is Srila Prabhupada's instruction. Take it or leave it. There is nothing further to discuss on this matter. If some temples refuse to follow Srila Prabhupada's instructions on fasting, it is their problem, not mine. I have done my duty in this matter also. I don't enjoy these controversies, but the truth has to be spoken.

Basu Ghosh also wrote:

You have done your duty as the "true representative" of SP.

We all who spoke with him personally, heard him personally, who visited Tirupati, etc., with him (I, for one, was there, then) and have served his mission for 30+ years are misguided because we don't accept his written instructions,

And: where did SP establish the worship of Lakshmi Nrsimha? Please cite the one example...

My response:

Dear Basu Ghosh Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I have never made a claim to be the "true representative" of Srila Prabhupada. My claim is very simple and humble. Prabhu, you are making it not very pleasant to discuss Srila Prabhupada's instructions, by attacking me constantly on a personal level. But then again, you are from the old school of ISCKON so this explains it, though we really have always been on very close friendly terms.

I could easily find many examples from sastra that proves junior devotees can be right too. You may be 30+ years devotee and I close to 30 years devotee, but really, does such a discussion of the time spent in ISKCON or devotional service prove anything? A more humble mood is to think despite this, how far do I have to go.

I once got a very wonderful letter from a sannyasi in Gaudiya Math, and he humbly stated that despite having been serving the mission of Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada for almost 60 years: "I have no attraction for Krsna, and have never even once really uttered Krsna's name with love in my whole life". In ISKCON, this older devotee card is often used as a big club to hammer someone in the head. One person that had joined 6 years earlier than me once told me, "I was a devotee when you were simply chasing skirts" -such is the way we deal with younger devotees. Then we wonder why they go in the hundreds to join Narayana Maharaja and Sridhara Swami's camp, etc.

Our relationships with devotees need to be kinder and less sarcastic, and having all the characteristics that we care about the person. As far as I am concerned, having been with Srila Prabhupada personally has not proven anything to me in itself. It is the following his instructions that matters. Though hearing these accounts are nice and wonderful in themselves they are not everything, and in issues like this it is an "interference", as Srila Prabhupada is not accepted, like in the case about fasting. His written instruction is there, but some temples still insist on serving grains on Janamstami and even Gaura Purnima to all devotees. This is an offense, to use one's given authority and deviate from Srila Prabhupada in the name of being a senior devotee.

A humble devotee would say well we did this and this, but Srila Prabhupada asks us to observe Ekadasi fasting on Ramanavami, Gaura Purnima, Janmastami, etc. Well, I should accept. What is that saying about teaching old dogs new tricks? It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

And for a long time the letters of Srila Prabhupada were not being allowed for devotees to see because they put a different light on the Zonal Acaryas and leadership in ISKCON. Though they often have to be judged according to time place and circumstances, they are not to be neglected. In the case of the fasting I take them as sastra.

I am not dictating to you and your temple what to do, but it would be nice of you to at least make these instructions available to devotees. Then they can choose to follow you or Srila Prabhupada. Here I am talking about Ramanavami, where you have stated you fast till noon in Baroda, am I right? And then take a grain feast.

Will you please post Srila Prabhupada's quotes in your temple next time Ramanavami comes around, like 2 weeks before at least, giving devotees an option to follow the "temple standard " or Srila Prabhupada's? Srila Prabhupada's instruction was:

710407LE.BOM - Lectures

So this process should be adopted, how to become sukrtina. Sukrti means yajna-dana-tapa-kriya. One must perform sacrifices as prescribed in the sastras, and they must give in charity their hard-earned money for Krsna's cause. That is called dana. Yajna, dana, and tapasya. Tapasya. Just like tomorrow is Sri Rama-navami. The tapasya will be that all the devotees will observe fasting from morning till evening. This is called tapasya. Just like Ekadasi day--there is no eating sumptuously. Simply you take little fruits and flowers. Try to avoid that also. You don't take even water. That is really ekadasi. But because we cannot do it--in the Kali-yuga the time is different--therefore we are allowed to take little fruit and milk, which is called anukalpa. These are different methods of tapasya. And yajna. This yajna, sankirtanaih prayair yajnaih, yajanti hi su-medhasah. In this age you cannot perform that big asvamedha yajna, gomedha yajna, rajasuya yajna, so many other yajnas. It is not possible. First of all, you have no means to perform such yajnas, hundreds and hundreds of tons ghee required for putting into the sacrificial fire. You have not even a drop of your ghee. So forget all those yajnas. In this age, yajnaih sankirtanaih prayaih.

8-03-26 Letter - Mukunda

Please accept my blessings. I am sorry I am delayed to reply your letter dated March 14, 1968, which I received over a week ago. I am very glad that you are repentant even for some action which is not sanctioned by me. This attitude is very nice and improves one in progressing on the path of devotional service. The Rakhi Bandhan ceremony observed by you under instruction of Prasad isn't approved by our Vaisnava rituals. Of course, such ceremony is observed among the Hindu community as a socio-religious convention. But in our Vaisnava community there is no such observance. Now, forget the incidence, and in future don't be misled by some unauthorized person. Our next ceremony is Lord Ramacandra's Birthday, on the 7th of April. It should be observed in the same way as Lord Caitanya's Appearance Day, namely, fasting up to evening and then accept Prasadam, and all our ceremonies should be performed with continuous Kirtana, of Hare Krishna, Hare Rama. That will make all our functions successful.

One of the sankirtan boys from Baroda temple, presently in Baltimore, observed Srila Prabhupada's instruction on fasting on Ramanavami when he saw these quotes from Srila Prabhupada. Similarly, at least other devotees should be given this opportunity to decide how they will follow.

Sunanda Prabhu just told me the other day about some devotees in Baltimore that do the Rakhi Bandhan, but that is another issue. Srila Prabhupada clearly has stated his opinion. Back to your question:

And: where did SP establish the worship of Lakshmi Nrsimha? Please cite the one example...

You yourself quoted that Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura established Laxmi Narasimha in the Yoga pita, according to something Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada mentioned, that Lord Narasimha with Laxmi comes and takes darshan of Mahaprabhu at the yogapitha. I have never seen any letter from Srila Prabhupada for or against it, but even the worship of Lord Narasimha in our Sampradaya is not the main focus, I don't think there is any disagreement about this. But worship of Lord Narasimha is in line with worship of Radha Krsna when seen in the light of Bhaktivinoda Thakur:

Five Prayers to Lord Narasimha

by Bhaktivinoda Thakura

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has written five beautiful prayers in "Sri Navadvipa Bhava Taranga" for receiving the mercy of Lord Narasimha. These prayers are certainly assurance to all sincere devotees that the worship of Lord Narasimha is purely in the line of aspiring love and devotion to Sri Sri Radha and Krsna. Those prayers are as follows.

e dusta hrdaye kama adi ripu chaya

kutinati pratisthasa sathya sada raya

hrdaya-sodhana ara krsnera vasana

nrsimha-carane mora ei to' kamana

Within my sinful heart the six enemies headed by lust perpetually reside, as well as duplicity, the desire for fame, plus sheer cunning. At the lotus feet of Lord Narasimha, I hope that He will mercifully purify my heart and give me the desire to serve Lord Krsna.

kandiya nrsimha-pade magibo kakhana

nirapade navadvipe jugala-bhajana

bhaya bhaya paya yan'ra darsane se hari

prasanna hoibo kabe more daya kari

Weeping, I will beg at the lotus-feet of Lord Narasimha for the benediction of worshipping Radha and Krsna in Navadvipa, perfectly safe and free from all difficulties. When will this Lord Hari, Whose terrible form strikes fear into fear itself, ever become pleased and show me His mercy?

yadyapi bhisana murti dusta-jiva-prati

prahladadi krsna-bhakta-jane bhadra ati

kabe va prasanna ho'ye sa krpa-vacane

nirbhaya karibe ei mudha akincane

Even though Lord Narasimha is terrifying toward the sinful souls, He offers great auspiciousness unto the devotees of Lord Krsna headed by Prahlada Maharaja. When will He be pleased to speak words of compassion unto me, a worthless fool, and thereby make me fearless?

svacchande baiso he vatsa sri-gauranga-dhame

jugala-bhajana hau rati hau name

mama bhakta-krpa-bale vighna jabe dura

suddha cite bhajo radha-krsna-rasa-pura

He will say, "Dear child! Sit sown freely and live happily here in Sri Gauranga-dhama. May you nicely worship the Divine Couple, and may you develop loving attachment for Their Holy Names. By the mercy of My devotees, all obstacles are cast far away. With a purified heart, just perform the worship of Radha and Krsna, for such worship overflows with sweet nectar."

ei boli' kabe mora mastaka-upara

sviya sri-carana harse dharibe isvara

amani jugala-preme sattvika vikare

dharaya lutibo ami sri-nrsimha-dvare

Saying this, will that Lord delightedly place His own divine lotus-feet upon my head? I will experience sublime love for the Divine Couple Radha-Krsna and undergo the ecstatic transformations called sattvika. Falling on the ground, I will roll about at the door of Sri Narasimha's temple.

(Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, - "Sri Navadvipa Bhava Taranga", 36-40)

 

HH Varsana Maharaja once gave a wonderful series of lectures in Gita Nagari based on Navadvipa Bhava Taranga, and he explained nicely that this book reveals the mood of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas towards Lord Narasimha and Lord Rama. I can try to explain at another time about Lord Rama, if anyone cares to hear from this foolish person about it. Otherwise HH Varsana Maharaja might explain it better, and then I don't have to transgress Vaisnava etiquette of maryada vyatikrama (see SB 3.4.26). But I am already uncomfortable trying to express my small understanding in front of so many senior devotees, whose feet I adore and place on my head. Kindly forgive me.

It is important to notice the Bhaktivinoda Thakur installed the peaceful Laxmi Narasimha deity and not Ugra Narasimha, though we are so fond and love Lord Narasimha in Mayapur with Prahlada. The main worship, if done at all, seems to be what Bhaktivinoda Thakur showed in this case -- Laxmi Narasimha. But for persons like myself, Ugra Narasimha is fine. Coming from the background of being born in asura families we can identify with Sri Prahlada, who prayed:

SB 7.9.8: Prahlada Maharaja prayed: How is it possible for me, who have been born in a family of asuras, to offer suitable prayers to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead? Even until now, all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahma, and all the saintly persons, could not satisfy the Lord by streams of excellent words, although such persons are very qualified, being in the mode of goodness. Then what is to be said of me? I am not at all qualified.

SB 7.9.9: Prahlada Maharaja continued: One may possess wealth, an aristocratic family, beauty, austerity, education, sensory expertise, luster, influence, physical strength, diligence, intelligence and mystic yogic power, but I think that even by all these qualifications one cannot satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However, one can satisfy the Lord simply by devotional service. Gajendra did this, and thus the Lord was satisfied with him.

SB 7.9.10: If a brahmana has all twelve of the brahminical qualifications [as they are stated in the book called Sanat-sujata] but is not a devotee and is averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater but who has dedicated everything — mind, words, activities, wealth and life — to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee is better than such a brahmana because the devotee can purify his whole family, whereas the so-called brahmana in a position of false prestige cannot purify even himself.

SB 7.9.11: The Supreme Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is always fully satisfied in Himself. Therefore when something is offered to Him, the offering, by the Lord's mercy, is for the benefit of the devotee, for the Lord does not need service from anyone. To give an example, if one's face is decorated, the reflection of one's face in a mirror is also seen to be decorated.

SB 7.9.12: Therefore, although I was born in a demoniac family, I may without a doubt offer prayers to the Lord with full endeavor, as far as my intelligence allows. Anyone who has been forced by ignorance to enter the material world may be purified of material life if he offers prayers to the Lord and hears the Lord's glories.

Srila Prabhupada established the worship of Lord Narasimha in ISKCON, and as you know we are working on a book about Lord Narasimha. This issue I am trying to address. As there are also the Gaudiya Vaisnava positions on Lord Narasimha, it will have as many references as possible from the Acaryas in our line. Though not feeling very qualified to write a book in glorification of Lord Narasimha, I pray the devotees will give me their blessings that I can do this little service, for the pleasure of Srila Prabhupada and the devotees. Please pray for me, that I can develop true Vaisnava humility and other good qualities, as shown by Sri Prahlada. I am an ocean of faults. And I hope this discussion can end here, as I feel ashamed to cause a controversy. However, I can say that my intentions are pure and I have presented these issues simply to try to present what seems right to me in light of Srila Prabhupada's instructions. Then again, being attacked for presenting Srila Prabhupada's instructions does not seem very fair. I see it as purification and in light of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's instructions I can tolerate it.

I hope I have not offended anyone, and if I have I ask for forgiveness. I take the last few verses of the 12 chapter of Bhagavad Gita to my heart and beg to be able to fully practise and follow them:

BG 12.13-14: One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me -- such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.

BG 12.15: He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anyone, who is equipoised in happiness and distress, fear and anxiety, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.16: My devotee who is not dependent on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and not striving for some result, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.17: One who neither rejoices nor grieves, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things -- such a devotee is very dear to Me.

BG 12.18-19: One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equipoised in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contaminating association, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and who is engaged in devotional service -- such a person is very dear to Me.

BG 12.20: Those who follow this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engage themselves with faith, making Me the supreme goal, are very, very dear to Me.

Basu Gsh Prabhu described me in a personal letter as a 'gentleman at heart', but it is not true, he is just being very kind. I am just a fallen dog and beg for scraps of mercy at the house of the Vaisnavas and Srila Prabhupada. (But I guess I will be beaten again? I have to take it all as mercy, I guess.)

Your servant,

Payonidhi das

[Guest guest]

Balaji is Lord Krishna

BY: KUNTIBHOJA DAS

Jun 10, NEW YORK (SUN) — Payonidhi dasa's recent criticism of ISKCON temples installing Balaji Deities is based primarily on his own misunderstanding of the Deity. He is under the impression that Balaji is a four-handed Vishnu deity. The Deity is physically a two-handed Krishna Deity. The conch and discus (usually held in the third and fourth hands) are added only with golden kavachas (armor), giving the appearance of four hands. The hands do not actually exist in the Deity itself.

The very name "balaji" means child Lord. There is no such thing as a Bala Vishnu, only a Bala Gopal, or child form of Krishna. The name Balaji refers to Lord Krishna as a child. This is further confirmed by the fact that all visiting devotees call out his name as "Govinda, Govinda, Goooovinda" while they walk up the mountain. As everyone knows, the name Govinda refers to Gopala Krishna, the cowherd boy, not to four-armed Narayana.

In a 1974 edition of Back To Godhead, an article appeared titled "Secretary to a Pure Devotee". In that article, Srila Prabhupada's opinion on this Deity was stated as follows:

"In the cottage there was a picture of the Balaji Deity. Prabhupada said that the Deity's name means "child," Krishna as a cowherd boy, not in His Vaikuntha aspect [His majestic form in the spiritual planets]."

Srila Prabhupada has also stated the following while visiting Andhra Pradesh:

"Still, in India there are many devotees, many Krishna conscious persons. Especially in this province. You are very great devotees of Balaji. Balaji is Krishna, Bala Krishna. So I wish that the government may be conducted under the guide of Balaji, Lord Krishna. That is my request."

It is true that Venkateswara is referred to as a four-armed Vishnu form in a purport to the Caitanya Caritamrita, but this is because he is often worshipped as Vishnu, by having two extra hands added with golden armor, and this practice has gone on for many hundreds of years. Since this temple has been administered and worshipped by Sri Vaishnavas for a thousand years, it is only expected that they will view the Deity as their ishta devata of Lakshmi Narayana.

The Balaji Deities installed in ISKCON temples are not four-handed Vishnu Deities, but two-handed Deities of Bala Krishna.

Overall, the mood of Payonidhi is very disturbing. Besides his ignorant fault finding, when you read his articles you feel self-glorification pouring out of every word. Every single article he has submitted to the Sun is an attempt to show how smart he is and how stupid devotees/swamis XYZ are. This has been pointed out to him by senior devotees on PAMHO many times, but he never gets the hint to speak like a devotee. Instead he tries to show his own intelligence, but only his pride ends up being visible. Previously he had promised never to post again on the Sampradaya Sun when he became angry at some articles appearing on the Sun that he disagreed with. It is unfortunate that he couldn't keep his word and remain silent. But self promoters always need a venue to display their glories, so it is natural that he came back to the main Vaishnava news website.

Let us analyze Payonidhi's latest contribution a little more. He begins by stating:

Basu Gosh Prabhu has brought up a question about Lord Narasimha:

"Lakshmi Nrsimha worship was done by Bhaktivinod Thakur: his Deities are still worshipped at the Yogapith at Mayapur."

If we look at Basu Gosh's "question" we see that he is not asking a question at all. He is simply making a statement to put Payonidhi in his proper place. But Payonidhi wants to make himself appear important, so he says that Basu Gosh (a well known Sanskrit scholar) is asking him a question - as though this Sanskrit pandit needed to approach Payonobody for an answer to his shastric questions.

Basu Gosh was making a very valid point that even in our Gaudiya Sampradaya there are Deities of Vishnu installed and worshipped. This went completely over Payonidhi's head, as evident by his reply, "I am aware of that... What is the point?" If you see Payonidhi's previous articles he claims Vishnu Deities are never, ever, ever worshipped by Gaudiya Vaishnavas. His position was proven false by Basu Gosh with a single sentence.

Basu Gosh goes on to point out that Sita Rama Deities were also authorized by Srila Prabhupada - another case of a Deity that is not Radha Krishna, again proving that Payonidhi's view that only Radha Krishna can be worshipped in the Gaudiya Sampradaya as false. In response to this, Payonidhi tries to re-adjust his position to avoid defeat. He says:

"My point is very simple: Mahaprabhu, and Radha Krsna worship is the main tradition of our Sampradaya."

So now Radha and Krishna worship are just the main tradition, not the only tradition. He changes his original view in an attempt to accommodate the worship of Sita Rama and Lakshmi Nrisimha Deities in ancient Gaudiya Vaishnava temples. His new position is that Radha Krishna Deities are absolutely the only Deities worshipable for Gaudiya Vaishnavas, unless of course the Deities are Sita Rama or Lakshmi Narasimha - but certainly not Balaji (no way you can worship Him). His whole argument is just a "make it up as you go" presentation. Basically a big joke.

Next he creates a straw man argument as follows:

"Do we want to omit Radha Krsna in Vrindavan from ISKCON and just see Laxmi Narayana? This extroverted vision is not pleasing."

No one has suggested removing Radha Krishna from ISKCON and seeing only Lakshmi Narayana. The argument is whether or not Lord Balaji is able to be installed on an ISKCON (Gaudiya Vaishnava) altar. Unless Payonidhi has scriptural statements exactly saying that Balaji may not be worshipped by Gaudiya Vaishnavas, then he needs to close his mouth. There are Gaudiya Vaishnava temples in Vrindavan and Navadvipa with all Forms of the Lord, and even ancient Gaudiya Vaishnava temples with Lord Shiva, Ganesha and other devotee devas as well. Some guy living most of his devotional life in Europe under Harikesha wants to be the ultimate authority over Gaudiya Vaishnavism throughout the world. First explain how you chose the wrong guru four times, then come to answering other philosophical questions. Even today he pretends that he knew Harikesh was off all along. Then why the hell did you follow him? You must have been a fool. Another case of pride, not wanting to admit he made a mistake and doesn't know it all.

Next Payonidhi states:

"After having read the Caitanya-caritamrta for so many years, you should also know the conclusion of the CC. I quoted Srila Prabhupada stating Laxmi Narayana should not be worshipped."

Here Payonidhi displays his ignorance by stating the ultimate conclusion of Caitanya Caritamrita is that one should not worship Lakshmi Narayana. No Vaishnava scripture states that Vishnu should not be worshipped, rather they say the opposite. The only point of life is to worship Vishnu. The conclusion of Caitanya Caritamrita is something much higher than "do not worship Vishnu". Otherwise everyone in the world would be perfect, because the whole world doesn't worship Vishnu already.

Furthermore I would say Payonidhi is very puffed up to claim to know the ultimate "conclusion" of Caitanya Caritamrita and fit it into one sentence. Certainly Caitanya Caritamrita is filled with thousands of philosophical conclusions, but to say "there is one specific ultimate conclusion and it happens to be exactly what I am arguing about" is just the sign of the inflated ego of a foolish person.

Next Payonidhi speculates as to the reason Balaji was installed in Bangalore ISKCON temple:

"Venkatesvara was established with the idea there would be financial gain, and from this offense alone ISKCON lost that temple to the Riviks and will never get it back, as Srila Prabhupada does not want Laxmi Narayana worship."

As a full time fault finder, he is certain the reason was all money. He didn't think for a moment that it was to attract many millions of people to visit Srila Prabhupada's temple and worship Lord Krishna. Why did Srila Prabhupada allow Sita Rama to be installed in North India? It was because those Deities are popular in North India and many devotees would be attracted to worshipping them. In South India, Lord Balaji is the most popular form of Lord Krishna, so to install Him is proper utilization of intelligence for preaching.

Payonidhi goes one to pompously proclaim to know Srila Prabhupada's mind, and he even has the x-ray vision goggles to see the exact offenses Srila Prabhupada has accepted and the results those offenses bring. With his mystic goggles he lets all us mortals know that because of this great offense of installing Balaji (Krishna) in Bangalore ISKCON temple, that temple was "lost" to the ritviks. Plain old rubbish propaganda.

The reality of the situation is that the Bangalore temple still worships Srila Prabhupada and distributes more books then the entire ISKCON worldwide temples combined. Yes, amazing, but true. Certainly not the results of offending Srila Prabhupada, as Payonidhi likes to fantasize. Also he doesn't mention that Madhu Pandit (the Temple President of ISKCON Bangalore) has opened huge temples in a dozen major cities in India without even publicizing this fact. He is going on opening temple after temple without even trying to push his name out there for credit. ISKCON doesn't tell anyone either, because they don't want the devotees to know about the huge successes happening in Bangalore amongst the "offender" ritviks and "vishnu worshippers".

Next Payonidhi again puts himself on a high pedestal to warn all of us lowly devotees in ISKCON:

"Keep establishing Visnu deities in ISKCON and the reactions will be very grave. This is my stern warning."

Who is Payonidhi to be issuing a stern warning to all ISKCON devotees about offenses only he can see (with his x-ray goggles)? Wake up and look at yourself in the mirror. You are just a nobody who spends your time glorifying yourself and posting it on the Internet wherever it will be published. I have never seen so much puffed up pride in an article in my life.

Payonidhi then goes on to tell us that anyone who doesn't agree with him is "not accepting Srila Prabhupada's version":

"You are the one making conflict by not accepting Srila Prabhupada's version and harming your lata bija. The result is seen in the lack of understanding of Krsna's in Vrindavan and what is our line."

Once again, the false pride is bubbling over and just can't be contained in that sentence. And to make all of us ignorants understand our position properly he tells us that none of us understand Krishna in Vrindavan (only Payonidhi does), simply because we don't agree with him 100%.

As with every single article Payonidhi writes, he has to again bring up the same case of demigod worship that happened in 1996 which he claims to have solved by complaining to the GBC. Does he have to mention this in every single one of his articles? He keeps telling us how big he was, complaining to the GBC to get a resolution passed against it. In fact he wasn't even instrumental in this. It's like a bird sitting on a branch and a fruit coincidentally falling at the same time. He complains about everything, and it just so happened that one of the things he complained about had a resolution passed against it. And for that, 11 years later he wants to keep claiming that he was the one to hold up the entire world on his finger.

Next Payonidhi again displays his inflated pride:

"I have done my duty, and warned leaders in ISKCON to please not establish more Visnu deities."

Who made it Payonidhi's "duty" to point out all imagined faults to the ISKCON leaders? Did Srila Prabhupada instruct him that this was his duty? Of course not, because he never saw Srila Prabhupada in his life. He has self-appointed himself as the big shot guy to warn ISKCON leaders, and that's his self-appointed duty. Why don't you self-appoint yourself to wash pots and sweep the temple floors?

The truth is, each and every devotee in the world has intelligence (not just you). They have all studied Srila Prabhupada's books and have assimilated the teachings in various levels. Those devotees have as much right to act according to their understanding of Srila Prabhupada's instructions as you do. Those devotees working hard to build a temple from nothing have the right to exercise their intelligence under the guidance of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada without worrying whether Payonidhi will be happy with them. As learned preacher brahmanas, what Deity will be appropriate to install is their right to decide, not the demands of somebody sitting in America who did nothing to build that temple.

Payonidhi concludes by telling everyone that his view is the only right view because his view is exactly Srila Prabhupada's view:

"This is Srila Prabhupada's instruction. Take it or leave it. There is nothing further to discuss on this matter."

Again, it will be hard to find someone more puffed up and full of himself on the Internet. "Take it or leave it, my way or the highway." He is so certain that he knows it all, and no one in the world can convince him otherwise. If you don't accept his words as 100% perfect then, "nothing further to discuss." But he goes on repeating himself again and again. I thought there was nothing further to discuss? Close the mouth and be silent then.

And finally the most amazing thing Payonidhi writes:

"A humble devotee would say well we did this and this, but Srila Prabhupada asks us to observe Ekadasi fasting on Ramanavami, Gaura Purnima, Janmastami, etc. Well, I should accept."

If you accept his view, and silently go along, then you are an advance and humble devotee, but if you disagree with him, then you are puffed up and not advanced. Why does he get to argue and still remain "a humble devotee", but if anyone else disagrees with him they aren't being humble? To Payonidhi, a humble devotee is defined as one who agrees with him. What more can be argued with such an ignorant person?

And when other writer's point out REAL FAULTS in ISKCON, like child molester gurus, hitmen gurus, fake Goswami's writing sex novels, traveling hippy gurus, then Payonidhi jumps up and down screaming at everyone to shut up and stop fault finding. Why is he the self-appointed fault finder, but no one else can expose real faults?

[Guest guest]

What would Gaudiya Math acaryas say about this controversy? Is Kuntibhoja correct about Balaji? Is he applying Prabhupada's statement correctly?

[Guest guest]

Jai Shri Krishna

 

I would like to correct this view that Lord Balaji is actualy 2-armed. The original balaji deity on the tirumula hill is actually 4 armed. However unlike most other vishnu murthies the diety appears without the Shanka-chakra in his upper arms and these symbols are attached. This was introduced by Ramanujacharaya as there was controvesy whether the diety was Siva, Skanda or Vishnu. According to the traditions of the temple the diety is Lord Krishna himself as after the Lord completed his earthly pastimes 5000 years ago the celestials asked the Lord what the living entities would do without him now that he is withdrawing his pastimes. SO it is beleived that for the duration of the kaliyuga Krishna would be personally present on Tirumula hill as the Balaji deity and thus Srivaishnavas accept him as the yuga avatara insead of Sri Chaitanya. Further lord Balaji is the very personification of the most significant 'sarva dharma' verse of the Bhagavat Gita. Lord balaji points to his feet with is lower right hand thus 'surrender all dharmas unto me'. Holds his lower left had is kept close to his waist which shows 'i will protect u form all reactions'. and the weapons in is upper arms show 'do not fear'. Further still if devotees read the pastimes of lord Balaji they will be familiar that one of the reasons for this form is related to Vridavan pastimes. Its is beleived that when Balaji's wedding with Padmavati (the incarnation of Lakshmi) was arranged by a local lady called Valukamalika. This lady was Mother Yoshoda herself who wanted to see her Darling Krishna in his bridegroom form, and was not able to do so previously as Krishna left Vrindavan unmarried.

 

Anyway i would like to pick up on the original post which i found somewhat arrogant and offensive. Yes all sampradayas need to adhere to their traditions and rules. That is the beauty of the Vaishnava religion, that you can go to a Pushtimarg temple and Krishna is worshiped as a baby, go to ISKCON where his pastimes with Radha are celebrated and then to SriVaishanva temples where he is generaly worshiped in his Dwarkadish form. The influence of Sri Sampradaya in ISKCON is not a errosion of Gaudiya sampradaya but in my opinion is enriching the preaching movement of Sri Prabhupada, Remember that all sampradayas have roots in the work of Srimad Ramanuja. The involvement of SriSampradaya in some ISKCON temples is a way of reaching out to Local people. This may not be very apparant to Western devotees, but to Indians like myself some of the external aspects of ISKCON can be somewhat alein, as ISKCON originates from Bengal and is often very Bengali in its external appearance. So in some parts of India Jagganath and Radha-Krishna deities are not very widely worshiped. In places like south india people are very attached to Krishna with Rukmini-Satybhama and seldom do u see RadhaKrishna, hence why this form of Krishna is present in ISKCON chenaii. Another example is the Shrinathji deity in some of the ISKCON temples in Gujarat/mumbai, this form of Krishna is very popular in this region. In ISCKON Bangalore RadhaKrishna, GauraNitai are on the main alter, they have not forgotten Gaudiya philosophy. But i feel the introduction of Balaji and festivals like Brahmotsava and Vaikuntha Ekadashi is a nice way to get local south indians involved in Gaudiya sampradaya.

 

In this Kaliyuga the devotees of Krishna in all his forms are going to be the refuge of each other. It is nice to see from time to time that the different sampradayas are working together instead disrespecting each other. So please do not say anything which offends the Vishnu Dieties and their sevaks in ISKCON.

[Guruvani]

the fact of the matter is that all the worship in ISKCON and Gaudiya temples of Radha-Krishna deities is actually worship of Laksmi-Narayana because you can't worship Radha-Krishna with archan-vidhi.

Radha-Krishna can only be worshiped in raga-marga.

 

Krishna is the deity of raga-marga.

All this archan-vidhi in Gaudiya temples is acceptable only to Laksmi-Narayana.

 

Maybe it about time this fact was admitted by the Gaudiyas?

[Guest guest]

 

The influence of Sri Sampradaya in ISKCON is not a errosion of Gaudiya sampradaya but in my opinion is enriching the preaching movement of Sri Prabhupada, Remember that all sampradayas have roots in the work of Srimad Ramanuja. The involvement of SriSampradaya in some ISKCON temples is a way of reaching out to Local people. This may not be very apparant to Western devotees, but to Indians like myself some of the external aspects of ISKCON can be somewhat alein, as ISKCON originates from Bengal and is often very Bengali in its external appearance.

 

Yes, Iskcon could use some more of Sri Vaishnava influences

[suchandra]

 

Yes, Iskcon could use some more of Sri Vaishnava influences

 

The actual influence presently visible within the ISKCON movement as a global org is rather that ISKCON seems to devotedly abide to special agreement with the bigger players of the globalization movement to withdraw its preaching activities in those places where the population is not familiar with the vedic tradition and "disturbs" so to speak the intensification of kali-yuga to enslave people into material bondage. "Hindu religions please stay in your territory." And ISKCON leaders are following that parameter.

[Guest guest]

 

The actual influence presently visible within the ISKCON movement as a global org is rather that ISKCON seems to devotedly abide to special agreement with the bigger players of the globalization movement to withdraw its preaching activities in those places where the population is not familiar with the vedic tradition and "disturbs" so to speak the intensification of kali-yuga to enslave people into material bondage. "Hindu religions please stay in your territory." And ISKCON leaders are following that parameter.

 

and you attribute that to Sri Vaishnavism????

 

I had in mind the need for more LOCAL structure and general adherence to tradition which Iskcon could learn from Sri Vaishnavas. Iskcon clearly emulates the centarlisation and totalitarian control characteristic to the Bengali Kartabhaja movement of Aul Chand followers, as well as their whimsical philosophical justification for breaking social norms and scriptural injunctions ("end justifies the means" philosophy).

[suchandra]

 

and you attribute that to Sri Vaishnavism????

 

I had in mind the need for more LOCAL structure and general adherence to tradition which Iskcon could learn from Sri Vaishnavas. Iskcon clearly emulates the centarlisation and totalitarian control characteristic to the Bengali Kartabhaja movement of Aul Chand followers, as well as their whimsical philosophical justification for breaking social norms and scriptural injunctions ("end justifies the means" philosophy).

No, this is not to be attributed to Sri Vaishnavism but to be attributed to a strategic withdrawal from being a powerful preaching movement in the West and instead opening temples in the Tirupati style http://iskcontirupati.org/templeconstruction.html at places where people come on their own to see the Deities. A home match.

Why attribute ISKCON to Sri Vaishnavism when conspicuous by absence? They have for example officially some 30 million jobless people all over the European Union and according repeated solemn assertion by the ISKCON EUGBC office it is totally fully impossible to open one by one examplary vedic farm projects. Is this a preaching movement or something like a church focusing to collect funds with palatial temple buildings from the Hindus in India?

[Guruvani]

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 8.230 purport,

 

 

One can worship Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa by the process of vidhi-mārga, worshiping the Lord with regulative principles according to the instructions of the śāstra and the spiritual master. But the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, cannot be directly worshiped by this process. The dealings between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs are devoid of the opulences of Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. The process of vidhi-mārga, following the regulative principles, is utilized in the worship of Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, whereas the process of spontaneous service — following in the footsteps of the gopīs, who are the denizens of Vṛndāvana — is transcendentally more advanced and is the process whereby Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are worshiped. One cannot attain this elevated position while worshiping the Lord in His opulence. Those attracted by the conjugal love between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa must follow in the footsteps of the gopīs. Only then is it possible to enter into the Lord's service in Goloka Vṛndāvana and directly associate with Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa

[Guest guest]

Seems like a nice article but it could have left out the insults and name calling (nobody etc).

 

By the way, is KUNTIBHOJA DAS a ritvik symathizer?

 

 

Balaji is Lord Krishna

BY: KUNTIBHOJA DAS

Jun 10, NEW YORK (SUN) — Payonidhi dasa's recent criticism of ISKCON temples installing Balaji Deities is based primarily on his own misunderstanding of the Deity. He is under the impression that Balaji is a four-handed Vishnu deity. The Deity is physically a two-handed Krishna Deity. The conch and discus (usually held in the third and fourth hands) are added only with golden kavachas (armor), giving the appearance of four hands. The hands do not actually exist in the Deity itself.

The very name "balaji" means child Lord. There is no such thing as a Bala Vishnu, only a Bala Gopal, or child form of Krishna. The name Balaji refers to Lord Krishna as a child. This is further confirmed by the fact that all visiting devotees call out his name as "Govinda, Govinda, Goooovinda" while they walk up the mountain. As everyone knows, the name Govinda refers to Gopala Krishna, the cowherd boy, not to four-armed Narayana.

In a 1974 edition of Back To Godhead, an article appeared titled "Secretary to a Pure Devotee". In that article, Srila Prabhupada's opinion on this Deity was stated as follows:

"In the cottage there was a picture of the Balaji Deity. Prabhupada said that the Deity's name means "child," Krishna as a cowherd boy, not in His Vaikuntha aspect [His majestic form in the spiritual planets]."

Srila Prabhupada has also stated the following while visiting Andhra Pradesh:

"Still, in India there are many devotees, many Krishna conscious persons. Especially in this province. You are very great devotees of Balaji. Balaji is Krishna, Bala Krishna. So I wish that the government may be conducted under the guide of Balaji, Lord Krishna. That is my request."

It is true that Venkateswara is referred to as a four-armed Vishnu form in a purport to the Caitanya Caritamrita, but this is because he is often worshipped as Vishnu, by having two extra hands added with golden armor, and this practice has gone on for many hundreds of years. Since this temple has been administered and worshipped by Sri Vaishnavas for a thousand years, it is only expected that they will view the Deity as their ishta devata of Lakshmi Narayana.

The Balaji Deities installed in ISKCON temples are not four-handed Vishnu Deities, but two-handed Deities of Bala Krishna.

Overall, the mood of Payonidhi is very disturbing. Besides his ignorant fault finding, when you read his articles you feel self-glorification pouring out of every word. Every single article he has submitted to the Sun is an attempt to show how smart he is and how stupid devotees/swamis XYZ are. This has been pointed out to him by senior devotees on PAMHO many times, but he never gets the hint to speak like a devotee. Instead he tries to show his own intelligence, but only his pride ends up being visible. Previously he had promised never to post again on the Sampradaya Sun when he became angry at some articles appearing on the Sun that he disagreed with. It is unfortunate that he couldn't keep his word and remain silent. But self promoters always need a venue to display their glories, so it is natural that he came back to the main Vaishnava news website.

Let us analyze Payonidhi's latest contribution a little more. He begins by stating:

Basu Gosh Prabhu has brought up a question about Lord Narasimha:

"Lakshmi Nrsimha worship was done by Bhaktivinod Thakur: his Deities are still worshipped at the Yogapith at Mayapur."

If we look at Basu Gosh's "question" we see that he is not asking a question at all. He is simply making a statement to put Payonidhi in his proper place. But Payonidhi wants to make himself appear important, so he says that Basu Gosh (a well known Sanskrit scholar) is asking him a question - as though this Sanskrit pandit needed to approach Payonobody for an answer to his shastric questions.

Basu Gosh was making a very valid point that even in our Gaudiya Sampradaya there are Deities of Vishnu installed and worshipped. This went completely over Payonidhi's head, as evident by his reply, "I am aware of that... What is the point?" If you see Payonidhi's previous articles he claims Vishnu Deities are never, ever, ever worshipped by Gaudiya Vaishnavas. His position was proven false by Basu Gosh with a single sentence.

Basu Gosh goes on to point out that Sita Rama Deities were also authorized by Srila Prabhupada - another case of a Deity that is not Radha Krishna, again proving that Payonidhi's view that only Radha Krishna can be worshipped in the Gaudiya Sampradaya as false. In response to this, Payonidhi tries to re-adjust his position to avoid defeat. He says:

"My point is very simple: Mahaprabhu, and Radha Krsna worship is the main tradition of our Sampradaya."

So now Radha and Krishna worship are just the main tradition, not the only tradition. He changes his original view in an attempt to accommodate the worship of Sita Rama and Lakshmi Nrisimha Deities in ancient Gaudiya Vaishnava temples. His new position is that Radha Krishna Deities are absolutely the only Deities worshipable for Gaudiya Vaishnavas, unless of course the Deities are Sita Rama or Lakshmi Narasimha - but certainly not Balaji (no way you can worship Him). His whole argument is just a "make it up as you go" presentation. Basically a big joke.

Next he creates a straw man argument as follows:

"Do we want to omit Radha Krsna in Vrindavan from ISKCON and just see Laxmi Narayana? This extroverted vision is not pleasing."

No one has suggested removing Radha Krishna from ISKCON and seeing only Lakshmi Narayana. The argument is whether or not Lord Balaji is able to be installed on an ISKCON (Gaudiya Vaishnava) altar. Unless Payonidhi has scriptural statements exactly saying that Balaji may not be worshipped by Gaudiya Vaishnavas, then he needs to close his mouth. There are Gaudiya Vaishnava temples in Vrindavan and Navadvipa with all Forms of the Lord, and even ancient Gaudiya Vaishnava temples with Lord Shiva, Ganesha and other devotee devas as well. Some guy living most of his devotional life in Europe under Harikesha wants to be the ultimate authority over Gaudiya Vaishnavism throughout the world. First explain how you chose the wrong guru four times, then come to answering other philosophical questions. Even today he pretends that he knew Harikesh was off all along. Then why the hell did you follow him? You must have been a fool. Another case of pride, not wanting to admit he made a mistake and doesn't know it all.

Next Payonidhi states:

"After having read the Caitanya-caritamrta for so many years, you should also know the conclusion of the CC. I quoted Srila Prabhupada stating Laxmi Narayana should not be worshipped."

Here Payonidhi displays his ignorance by stating the ultimate conclusion of Caitanya Caritamrita is that one should not worship Lakshmi Narayana. No Vaishnava scripture states that Vishnu should not be worshipped, rather they say the opposite. The only point of life is to worship Vishnu. The conclusion of Caitanya Caritamrita is something much higher than "do not worship Vishnu". Otherwise everyone in the world would be perfect, because the whole world doesn't worship Vishnu already.

Furthermore I would say Payonidhi is very puffed up to claim to know the ultimate "conclusion" of Caitanya Caritamrita and fit it into one sentence. Certainly Caitanya Caritamrita is filled with thousands of philosophical conclusions, but to say "there is one specific ultimate conclusion and it happens to be exactly what I am arguing about" is just the sign of the inflated ego of a foolish person.

Next Payonidhi speculates as to the reason Balaji was installed in Bangalore ISKCON temple:

"Venkatesvara was established with the idea there would be financial gain, and from this offense alone ISKCON lost that temple to the Riviks and will never get it back, as Srila Prabhupada does not want Laxmi Narayana worship."

As a full time fault finder, he is certain the reason was all money. He didn't think for a moment that it was to attract many millions of people to visit Srila Prabhupada's temple and worship Lord Krishna. Why did Srila Prabhupada allow Sita Rama to be installed in North India? It was because those Deities are popular in North India and many devotees would be attracted to worshipping them. In South India, Lord Balaji is the most popular form of Lord Krishna, so to install Him is proper utilization of intelligence for preaching.

Payonidhi goes one to pompously proclaim to know Srila Prabhupada's mind, and he even has the x-ray vision goggles to see the exact offenses Srila Prabhupada has accepted and the results those offenses bring. With his mystic goggles he lets all us mortals know that because of this great offense of installing Balaji (Krishna) in Bangalore ISKCON temple, that temple was "lost" to the ritviks. Plain old rubbish propaganda.

The reality of the situation is that the Bangalore temple still worships Srila Prabhupada and distributes more books then the entire ISKCON worldwide temples combined. Yes, amazing, but true. Certainly not the results of offending Srila Prabhupada, as Payonidhi likes to fantasize. Also he doesn't mention that Madhu Pandit (the Temple President of ISKCON Bangalore) has opened huge temples in a dozen major cities in India without even publicizing this fact. He is going on opening temple after temple without even trying to push his name out there for credit. ISKCON doesn't tell anyone either, because they don't want the devotees to know about the huge successes happening in Bangalore amongst the "offender" ritviks and "vishnu worshippers".

Next Payonidhi again puts himself on a high pedestal to warn all of us lowly devotees in ISKCON:

"Keep establishing Visnu deities in ISKCON and the reactions will be very grave. This is my stern warning."

Who is Payonidhi to be issuing a stern warning to all ISKCON devotees about offenses only he can see (with his x-ray goggles)? Wake up and look at yourself in the mirror. You are just a nobody who spends your time glorifying yourself and posting it on the Internet wherever it will be published. I have never seen so much puffed up pride in an article in my life.

Payonidhi then goes on to tell us that anyone who doesn't agree with him is "not accepting Srila Prabhupada's version":

"You are the one making conflict by not accepting Srila Prabhupada's version and harming your lata bija. The result is seen in the lack of understanding of Krsna's in Vrindavan and what is our line."

Once again, the false pride is bubbling over and just can't be contained in that sentence. And to make all of us ignorants understand our position properly he tells us that none of us understand Krishna in Vrindavan (only Payonidhi does), simply because we don't agree with him 100%.

As with every single article Payonidhi writes, he has to again bring up the same case of demigod worship that happened in 1996 which he claims to have solved by complaining to the GBC. Does he have to mention this in every single one of his articles? He keeps telling us how big he was, complaining to the GBC to get a resolution passed against it. In fact he wasn't even instrumental in this. It's like a bird sitting on a branch and a fruit coincidentally falling at the same time. He complains about everything, and it just so happened that one of the things he complained about had a resolution passed against it. And for that, 11 years later he wants to keep claiming that he was the one to hold up the entire world on his finger.

Next Payonidhi again displays his inflated pride:

"I have done my duty, and warned leaders in ISKCON to please not establish more Visnu deities."

Who made it Payonidhi's "duty" to point out all imagined faults to the ISKCON leaders? Did Srila Prabhupada instruct him that this was his duty? Of course not, because he never saw Srila Prabhupada in his life. He has self-appointed himself as the big shot guy to warn ISKCON leaders, and that's his self-appointed duty. Why don't you self-appoint yourself to wash pots and sweep the temple floors?

The truth is, each and every devotee in the world has intelligence (not just you). They have all studied Srila Prabhupada's books and have assimilated the teachings in various levels. Those devotees have as much right to act according to their understanding of Srila Prabhupada's instructions as you do. Those devotees working hard to build a temple from nothing have the right to exercise their intelligence under the guidance of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada without worrying whether Payonidhi will be happy with them. As learned preacher brahmanas, what Deity will be appropriate to install is their right to decide, not the demands of somebody sitting in America who did nothing to build that temple.

Payonidhi concludes by telling everyone that his view is the only right view because his view is exactly Srila Prabhupada's view:

"This is Srila Prabhupada's instruction. Take it or leave it. There is nothing further to discuss on this matter."

Again, it will be hard to find someone more puffed up and full of himself on the Internet. "Take it or leave it, my way or the highway." He is so certain that he knows it all, and no one in the world can convince him otherwise. If you don't accept his words as 100% perfect then, "nothing further to discuss." But he goes on repeating himself again and again. I thought there was nothing further to discuss? Close the mouth and be silent then.

And finally the most amazing thing Payonidhi writes:

"A humble devotee would say well we did this and this, but Srila Prabhupada asks us to observe Ekadasi fasting on Ramanavami, Gaura Purnima, Janmastami, etc. Well, I should accept."

If you accept his view, and silently go along, then you are an advance and humble devotee, but if you disagree with him, then you are puffed up and not advanced. Why does he get to argue and still remain "a humble devotee", but if anyone else disagrees with him they aren't being humble? To Payonidhi, a humble devotee is defined as one who agrees with him. What more can be argued with such an ignorant person?

And when other writer's point out REAL FAULTS in ISKCON, like child molester gurus, hitmen gurus, fake Goswami's writing sex novels, traveling hippy gurus, then Payonidhi jumps up and down screaming at everyone to shut up and stop fault finding. Why is he the self-appointed fault finder, but no one else can expose real faults?

[Guest guest]

Jai Shri Krishna

I do not understand this viewpoint within Gaudiya Vaishnavism that lakshminarayan worship is somewhat 'transcendentally less advanced' than the mood of Gopis in Vrindavan. Let us remember that so many Acharayas and Alwars in Sri Sampradaya reached high levels of transcendental Bhakti...Prapatti which is total spontaneous devotion, purely through lakshminarayan worship.

 

In my viewpoint some of the Gaudiyas vaishnavas who have posted on here are rather fanatical and from their postings it appears that some are starting to see Lakshminarayan worship in the same light as demigod worship. I am well aware of this spontanteous bhakti vs regulative bhakti which is also explained in SriVaishanva philosophy very nicely. I am also well aware of this heirachy of Rasa philosophy held by some of the northen vaishnav schools. But wotever the beleifs are Sri Prabhupada under no conditions did not want to push this 'higher rasa/higher bhakti' philosophy to his devotees. In his greay wisdom he knew that people would abuse this for sense gratification and their own ego. So he kept things simple.

 

I have now read some books by one of Prabhupadas Godbrothers and spoke to some of his devotees... and i do not like the way in which they pushed his higher rasa philosophy in my face. One person i spoke to went to the extent to say that NamoNarayana Mahamantra was lesser than Hare Krishna mahamantra, and that the Lakshminarayan worship has certain limitations compared to Radha-Krishna. In SriVaishnava philosophy there's non of this. U simiply serve the lord according to the teachings of past Gurus in this lifetime, whether Rama, Krishna, Lakshminarayan, woteva...the rest is up to him. We get salvation purely through the grace of the Lord after we have fully surrendered unto him. When we attain the Lord the bliss we expereince is complete in all respects. There is no concept of this, worship Radha-Krishna and atain Madhurya in Goloka , worship Rama and go to Ayhodya in aishwarya etc... The supreme Lord is complete and when his devotees atain his abode Paramapadam-Vaikuntha they will have total anubhava (transcendetal experience) of all the rasas, moods and forms of the Lord.

[Guruvani]

Havaing a relationship with the Lord in intimacy of love is considered on a higher level than the worship in awe and reverence.

 

Krishna devotees are intimate with Krishna and they don't feel any awe or reverence toward him.

Obviously, the intimate associates of the Lord are on a higher platform than devotees who worship Lord Narayana in awe and reverence.

 

The personal friends of the King enjoy an intimate relationship with the King, whereas the average citizen in the Kingdom can only relate with the King in awe and reverence.

 

So, the friends of the King are more intimate with the King than are the common folk.

 

Devotees of Krishna are more intimate with the Lord than are the devotees of Narayana.

 

So, that is why being a devotee of Krishna is considered as higher than being a devotee of Narayana.

[Gopinath Dasa]

Hare Krsna!

 

Kulashekara alwar & Andal actually glofified the form of Sri Krsna. I'm not so sure about the other personalities but I'm sure glorification of the Lord in Sri Krsna's form would exist in the 4000 Divya Prabandam.

 

Caitanya Mahaprabhu being a direct (albeit covered) avatara of Sri Krsna will naturally want to invite back all the living entities to Goloka. The Gaudiya Vaisnavas simply follow in His footsteps. But I agree, we should be discreet & not offend the Visnu form & His bhaktas. He IS the Supreme Lord anyway. Not svayam Bhagavan, but a form of Bhagavan nevertheless.

 

dasanudas,

Gopinath Dasa

 

 

Jai Shri Krishna

I do not understand this viewpoint within Gaudiya Vaishnavism that lakshminarayan worship is somewhat 'transcendentally less advanced' than the mood of Gopis in Vrindavan. Let us remember that so many Acharayas and Alwars in Sri Sampradaya reached high levels of transcendental Bhakti...Prapatti which is total spontaneous devotion, purely through lakshminarayan worship.