In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such misconceived dream,

[Guruvani]

Eternally liberated living entities never come into contact with material nature . . . they are counted among the associates of Krsna. (Teachings of Lord Caitanya, p. 108)

[Guruvani]

. .the nitya-siddhas are eternally Krsna conscious without any forgetfulness . . . you should not consider that My associates are ever separated from Me . . . they are almost as powerful as I am . . . they are very, very dear to Me, as I am very, very dear to them. (Nectar of Devotion, p. 205)

[Guruvani]

The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krsna consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Krsna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their first opportunity to associate with Krsna personally and directly. (Krsna Book, Ch. 28, 6th paragraph)

[Guruvani]

There are two kinds of souls: conditioned and liberated, nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta. Just like we are, similarly, there are living entities in the spiritual sky also, but they are liberated. They never become conditioned. We are conditioned. We do not know from when, but we are conditioned. So jiva yara vasi. In this material world, we conditioned, we are residents. But in the spiritual world the residents are all liberated souls. Jagal-laksmi rakhi' rahe yahan maya dasi. (670105CC.NY)

[Guruvani]

They live in the spiritual world, Vaikuntha planets. Nitya-mukta. Nitya-mukta means eternally liberated. They never come down in this material world.(Bhag. Lecture, June 20, 1973, Mayapura)

[Guruvani]

The nitya-muktas are in Vaikuntha jagat, the spiritual world and they never fall into the material world. Those in the material world are conditioned souls, nitya-baddha. The nitya-baddhas can become liberated by controlling the mind because the cause of conditioned life is the mind. (Bhag. 5.11.12, purp.)

[Guruvani]

 

There are two kinds of living entities. Nitya-baddha means ever-conditioned. Ever-conditioned means those who are in this material world; they do not know when they came in touch with this material world. Neither do they know when they will be liberated. They are called nitya-baddha, ever-conditioned. And similarly, there are nitya-siddhas. Nitya-siddhas means they never come in contact with this material world, and even if they come here for some business, they do not forget their position. That is nitya-siddha. Try to understand. There are two kinds of living entities: nitya-siddha, nitya-baddha. Nitya-baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddhas.

Anyone who is in this material world, nitya-baddha. And nitya-siddhas, they never come in contact with this material world, and even they come for some business under the order of the Supreme Lord, they do not touch these material qualities. They remain always transcendental. As Krsna remains always transcendental, even though He is in this material world, similarly, Krsna's nitya-siddha associates, they are also transcendental. They never touch this material world. (Bg. Lecture, July 14, 1973, London)

 

[Guruvani]

The nitya-siddha devotees never fall down to the region of the material atmosphere even though they sometimes come into the material plane to execute the mission of the Lord. (Bhag. 3.3.26, purp.

[Guruvani]

. . . a devotee in the transcendental abode of the Lord never falls. (Bhag. 3.15.48, purp.)

[Guruvani]

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura:

Jivas are of two kinds. 1) Nitya-mukta (eternally free) 2) Nitya-baddha (eternally enslaved). Free jivas are never enslaved. They are ever serving the Supreme God. (Vaisnavism Real and Apparent, Lecture, Bhaktisiddanta S T )

 

[Guruvani]

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura:

Mahavisnu, the incarnation of Sankarsana, establishing Himself in the jiva-sakti as Paramatma, reveals the jiva-souls of the mundane world. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya. Till by dint of God's grace they get shelter under the Hladini (bliss-giving) element of the cit-sakti, they are liable to be overcome by maya. As such, the conclusion is that it is the jiva-sakti that begets the jivas, and not the cit-sakti. (Jaiva-Dharma, p. 216)

 

[Guruvani]

 

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana:

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana writes in Govinda-bhasya, "One cannot even imagine that the Supreme Lord Hari would ever desire that the liberated souls fall down, nor would the liberated souls ever desire to leave the Lord." He further states that this is because of their extreme mutual love and cites four verses as evidence (Bg. 7.17, Bhag. 9.4.68, 9.4.65 and 2.8.6).

 

[Guruvani]

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami:

The third of ten characteristics of Vaikuntha listed by Srila Jiva Gosvami in Bhagavat-sandarbha, text 61, is that anyone who has attained Vaikuntha does not fall. Srila Jiva Gosvami also provides numerous examples and quotes as proof of this fact.

 

[Guruvani]

. . . and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible. (Bg. 15.16, text)

[Guruvani]

A pure devotee of the Lord can never forget those lotus feet in any circumstance. He will not give up his shelter at the lotus feet of the Lord for a single moment-indeed, not for half a moment-even in exchange of the benediction of ruling and enjoying the opulence of the entire universe. (Bhag. 11.2.53, text)

[Guruvani]

Maha-maya is the deluding potency which covers the living entity in material existence. "The living entity cannot be forgetful of his real identity unless influenced by the avidya potency." (Bhag. 3.7.5, purp.)

[Guruvani]

In the personal abode of the Lord . . . There is no predominance of the influence of time, so what to speak of the illusory, external energy [maha-maya]; it cannot enter that region. (Bhag. 2.9.10, TEXT)

[Guest guest]

 

Ah... the copy and paste artist strikes again... when will you graduate to the level od actual intelligent debate? Anyway...

 

You claim that:

 

"Many of the Gaudiya sects other than ISKCON have all become polluted with Impersonalism that deny the unfathomable greatness of Lord Krishna’s inconceivable PERSONAL creation. Such fools in those sects foolishly and hysterically claim the their nitya-baddha consciousness originates from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.

 

We are all persons first as a perpetual nitya-siddha body (marginal living entity) with an eternal svarupa that always exists even if we cannot remember that ffice:smarttags" />All impersonalism (tatastha-consciousness) has its beginning in the creation originally due to ones nitya-baddha fallen consciousness, which is the lower 'bodiless' self of ones perpetual authentic nitya-siddha-svarupa body as already explained."

 

Are you calling Srila Bhaktisiddhanta an impersonalist? He very clearly says that jiva's original position is in tatastha shakti.

 

"The description of sparks in the effulgence or a particle or atom in a ray of light is correctly describing the nitya-baddha consciousness in the mahat-tattva and the nitya-baddha jiva-tatastha consciousness in the surrounding Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti that separates Vaikuntha from the maha-tattva. The other 75% of creation is full of nitya-siddha devotee of whom some are simultaneously in the mahat-tattva as a bodiless nitya-baddha conscious projection relying on the bodies or vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu".

 

The nitya-baddha coconsciousness is the jiva-tattva and can also be the jiva-tatastha but they are all the extended consciousness of the nitya-siddha when one chooses to ignore Krishna.

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta is therefore correct that the jiva comes from tatastha because all nitya-baddha consciousneses have to first travel through the tatastha stage of consciousness on their way to the mahat-tattva. The nitya-baddha and the jiva-tattva are the same, such consciousness devoid of form until they are either given form by Maha-Vishnu or teturn back home back to Godhean to their original svarupa or rasa form in Goloka.

[Guruvani]

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura:

The jivas who are the eternal devotees of God in Goloka Vrndavana and in Paravyoma (Vaikuntha) . . . are adroit in the service of the worshipable entity, God . . . they have nothing to do with maya, without any knowledge even of the existence of a sakti known as maya-sakti . . . They are ever free from bondage. It is love that is their very life; affliction, death and fear are quite unknown to them. Also, the atomic jivas who are the outcomes of the rays of the glance of Mahavishnu lying in the ocean of karana (cause) towards maya-are numberless. Because they are by side of maya, the variegatedness of maya is visible to them. The characteristics that have been stated of the jivas in common are in them; yet due to their atomic character turn their eyes towards the cit region as also the world of maya from the border line. In this condition, the jivas are too weak, because they have not acquired the cit strength through the grace of the Entity (God) to Whom their service is due. (Jaiva Dharma, Chapter 16, p. 227, translated and published by the Madras Gaudiya Matha)

 

[Guruvani]

In the spiritual world there is no struggle for existence because everyone there exists eternally. There is no disparity because everyone wants to render service to the Supreme Lord, and no one wants to imitate the Lord in becoming the beneficiary. The Lord, being creator of everything, including the living beings, factually is the proprietor and enjoyer of everything that be, but in the material world, by the spell of maya, or illusion, this eternal relation with the Supreme Personality of Godhead is forgotten, and so the living being is conditioned under the law of struggle for existence and survival of the fittest. (Bhag. 1.15.25-6, purp.)

[Guruvani]

In the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda, it is stated that beyond the one-fourth part of God's creation is the three-fourths manifestation . . . This part is eternal, everlasting, without deterioration, and unlimited, and it contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions. In the Sankhya-kaumudi it is stated that unalloyed goodness or transcendence is just opposite to the material modes. All living entities [in the Vaikunthalokas ] are eternally associated without any break. . . everything in the transcendental world is everlasting . . . There are no such actions and reactions of cause and effects there, so the cycle of birth, growth, existence, tranformations, deterioration and annihilation-the six material changes-are not existent there. It is the unalloyed manifestation of the energy of the Lord, without illusion as experienced here in the material world. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport)

[Guruvani]

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakura writes,

The root of all actions is the desire for acts, the root of which again is avidya. Avidya is the name for the forgetfulness of [the] soul's essential nature that 'I am Krsna's servant.' This avidya did not commence within the course of the mundane time. That root of karma of the jiva arose when he was at the tatastha position. As such, the beginning of karma is not to be traced within mundane time, and, on that account karma is beginningless. (Jaiva Dharma, page 234)

 

[Guest guest]

 

I think the fact is they are references and I was there during some of those discussions, why can't you just except what Srila Prabhupada has said in stead of making silly excuses that Srila Prabhupada made all that up to appease his devotee. The taped words and the written words are equally important.

 

That seemed to get the blood flowing didn't it

[Guruvani]

Where not only is life eternal, blissful and full of knowledge . . . ignorance, misery, egoism, anger and envy-are completely absent . . . the influence of maya, the total external energy, which induces us to become more and more materialistic and forget our relationship with God, is also absent there . . . the living beings in Vaikunthaloka are never forgetful of their identities (Cc. Madhya-lila 5.22, purp.)

[Guruvani]

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura:

It should be understood that the jiva soul is neither produced of this material world, nor created in the transcendental world. They are originated from the marginal line between the transcendental and mundane spheres. (Tattva Viveka 2.4, by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, page 55)