Slamming Maya

[Murali_Mohan_das]

In another discussion on this forum, someone made mention of a need to "slam Maya".

 

This adversarial attitude is familiar from my childhood in and around ISKCON, and, I'm afraid, is a misinterpretation of the mood of Srila AC Bhaktivendanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

The problem with "slamming" Maya (and all the incumbent sexual overtones) is: when you "slam" Her, She tends to slam you back with just as much force.

 

Really, what is the Vaishnava mood regarding Maya Devi?

 

Gurudev has expressed an almost reverential mood towards Maya Devi. We are to give her all respect due to the Energy of the Supreme Lord.

 

Think of the phrase "sleeping in the lap of the witch Maya". Yes, She is being called a "witch", but what is *our* position? We are sleeping contendedly IN HER LAP!! That does not sound like an adversarial mood! She is nurturing us in her own "deceptive" way!

 

So, really, there is no need to "slam" Maya (well, there may be a need, but it is a material one). The only need is to embrace Krishna. Seeing our sincerity and our hankering for her Lord, Maya Devi happily lifts us to our feet and sends us on our way.

 

Isn't it????

[Guruvani]

 

 

So, really, there is no need to "slam" Maya (well, there may be a need, but it is a material one).

 

[theist]

"Slamming maya" really means to slam our own addiction to the illusory energy. It is something like the Christians and Muslims fighting the devil. it is really a war that takes place within one's own mind. People grow past this stage and for those that have a little patience for those that haven't yet is required.

[theist]

A fotenote to being patient. We have seen a history of supposed sanyasins in Iskcon actually become obcessed with this mental state and instead of growing past it turned into woman haters.

 

This is really destructive for the whole community because then others feel a justification or even a need to follow that example.

 

I would think Gaudiyas should evolve to have the highest respect for our Mother seeing as the Supreme Mother is Radharani.

 

But for most of us we still need to learn to fear maya more. Not hate maya but fear the entanglement.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I'm going to have to show my daughter that emoticon/gremlin!! She can't read yet (thankfully), but she'll get a big kick out of that image!!!

 

 

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[Murali_Mohan_das]

Hmmmm...fearing Maya could certainly be said to be *USEFUL*, but is it the highest realization?

 

Now, I'm not too clear on the distinctions between Yoga-Maya and Maha-Maya (somebody help me here!!), but isn't it only by the mercy of Maya Devi that we can even see the Most Beautiful Shyamasundar form of the Lord? That is to say, if we were under no delusion at all, wouldn't we, as did Arjuna, see the Lord's Universal Form in all it's fearsome splendor and glory? Wouldn't we, as Arjuna did, cower before this awful (in the classical sense of the word) form and pray for the Lord's mercy (by way of Maya Devi?) to see his more beautiful form?

 

I could be way off base here...let me know, good Vaishnavas!!

 

 

A fotenote to being patient. We have seen a history of supposed sanyasins in Iskcon actually become obcessed with this mental state and instead of growing past it turned into woman haters.

 

This is really destructive for the whole community because then others feel a justification or even a need to follow that example.

 

I would think Gaudiyas should evolve to have the highest respect for our Mother seeing as the Supreme Mother is Radharani.

 

But for most of us we still need to learn to fear maya more. Not hate maya but fear the entanglement.

[theist]

 

Hmmmm...fearing Maya could certainly be said to be *USEFUL*, but is it the highest realization?

 

Now, I'm not too clear on the distinctions between Yoga-Maya and Maha-Maya (somebody help me here!!), but isn't it only by the mercy of Maya Devi that we can even see the Most Beautiful Shyamasundar form of the Lord? That is to say, if we were under no delusion at all, wouldn't we, as did Arjuna, see the Lord's Universal Form in all it's fearsome splendor and glory? Wouldn't we, as Arjuna did, cower before this awful (in the classical sense of the word) form and pray for the Lord's mercy (by way of Maya Devi?) to see his more beautiful form?

 

I could be way off base here...let me know, good Vaishnavas!!

 

Yeah but for me such disitnctions are only intellectual. I am still enamoured by woman's breasts and the willingness to waste time. I should fear the effects of maya more.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

when i went to temple with a friend, the devotee their told me, mayadevi also means mother. Hindi maya means affection. (durga).

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Yeah but for me such distinctions are only intellectual. I am still enamoured by woman's breasts and the willingness to waste time. I should fear the effects of maya more.

 

You and me both, brother!! I fear I'm much too glib for my own good!

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

when i went to temple with a friend, the devotee their told me, mayadevi also means mother. Hindi maya means affection. (durga).

 

Wow!! Wow!

 

After all, she *is* cradling us in her lap like helpless little babes.

[Guest guest]

 

In another discussion on this forum, someone made mention of a need to "slam Maya".

 

This adversarial attitude is familiar from my childhood in and around ISKCON, and, I'm afraid, is a misinterpretation of the mood of Srila AC Bhaktivendanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

Iskcon devotees in general display a very negative and disrespectful attitude towards both Durgadevi and Her husband, Lord Shiva. It clearly stems from our techings, such as the completely mistaken notion that Shiva and Durga belong to the category of "demigods", akin to Indra, Ganesh, Brahma, or other devas in the jiva category.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

To be fair, the acharyas *do* at times say strong things like that they declare "totalitarian war against maya", but, these statements need to be understood in the context of preaching, don't they? Things are said for the sake of propaganda (and even "motivating the troops") that may not strictly be in accord with siddhanta.

 

Also, the maya (small "m") which we are declaring war against really is what theist describes--the thick layer of crust covering our own pure consciousness.

 

Maya Devi Herself remains worshippable.

 

 

Iskcon devotees in general display a very negative and disrespectful attitude towards both Durgadevi and Her husband, Lord Shiva. It clearly stems from our techings, such as the completely mistaken notion that Shiva and Durga belong to the category of "demigods", akin to Indra, Ganesh, Brahma, or other devas in the jiva category.

[Guest guest]

Wherever truth is sacrificed for the sake of expediency we have a case of short term gains and long term losses. Such propagandizing statements invariably lead to confusion. That is the Tantric (as opposed to the Vedic) approach. In the end, the real casualty is our faith.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Wherever truth is sacrificed for the sake of expediency we have a case of short term gains and long term losses. Such propagandizing statements invariably lead to confusion. That is the Tantric (as opposed to the Vedic) approach. In the end, the real casualty is our faith.

Well, if one see's Mahaprabhu's Sankirttan movement as a battle campaign--a war--as I believe the two Prabhupadas (with whom we are most familiar) did, then a good general might accept calculated long-term (or short-term) losses with even longer-term successes in mind.

 

As I've said before in (online) print, I feel all the growing pains Gaudiya Vaishnavism has gone through in the West (and even in the East) have been worthwhile. The message of Mahaprabhu is being spread further and more widely than ever before in recorded history.

 

Many of us initially have no faith which may be compromised. Propaganda may be used to attract those with good inclinations. Like it has been said, "They'll come for the prasadam [or propaganda], but they'll stay for the philosophy."

 

As we say here in Santa Cruz: It's all good.