number of souls

[Guest guest]

What is the number of individual souls?

1. is it known- limited (there is one exact number)

2.unknown- unlimited (there are a lot! of souls, new one are also coming)

_______________

 

I think answer is -1.

(correct?)

 

_______________

 

When was the time when individual soul took it's first incarnation (life)?

Was this time the same for all individual souls?

[muralidhar_das]

Not only are there an unlimited number of souls, but before this universe existed there were other universes filled with billions of billions of souls.

There have been so many previous universes, in fact, that the number of them is said to be unlimited.

CC Madhya 15.172: "Just as there are millions of fruits on the udumbaraViraja.

CC Madhya 15.173: "The udumbara tree is filled with millions of fruits, and if one falls down and is destroyed, the tree does not even consider the loss.

CC Madhya 15.174: "In the same way, if one universe is vacated due to the living entities' having been liberated, that is a very little thing for Krishna. He does not take it very seriously.

CC Madhya 15.175: "The entire spiritual world constitutes the unlimited opulence of Krishna, and there are innumerable Vaikuntha planets there. The Causal Ocean is considered the surrounding waters of Vaikunthaloka.

CC Madhya 15.176: "Maya and her unlimited material universes are situated in that Causal Ocean. Indeed, maya appears to be floating like a pot filled with mustard seeds.

CC Madhya 15.177: "Of the millions of mustard seeds floating in that pot, if one seed is lost, the loss is not at all significant. Similarly, if one universe is lost, it is not significant to Lord Krishna.

CC Madhya 15.178: "To say nothing of one universal mustard seed, even if all the universes and the material energy [maya] are destroyed, Krishna

CC Madhya 15.179: "If a person possessing millions of wish-fulfilling cows loses one she-goat, he does not consider the loss. Krishna owns all six opulences in full. If the entire material energy is destroyed, what does He lose?"

You asked

When was the time when individual soul took it's first incarnation (life)?

Every soul is beginningless (in the Sanskrit language -- anadi ).

A soul can be liberated or it can incarnate in a physical body. Indeed, a physically incarnate soul can attain liberation, but then fall back down into physical life once again.

A liberated soul is free from disturbances caused by the transformations of material existence - the liberated soul does not identify himself with a physical body that transforms from youthfulness to maturity, to old age. The liberated soul understands the eternal nature of the Self and they taste the nectar of immortality (amrta).

In his commentary to verse 2.2.186 of Sri Brhadbhagavatamrtam, Srila Sanatan Goswami quotes this verse by Adi Shankaracharya,

mukta api lilaya vigraham kritva bhagavantam bhajanta

translation: “Even the liberated beings assume a form and worship the Lord in his pastimes”.

Srila Sanatan Goswami then quotes Srimad Bhagavatam (6.14.5) which says:

muktanam api siddhanam narayana parayana

that is, “The liberated and perfected souls are engaged in service of Narayana (Vishnu).”

Srila Sanatan Goswami then asks himself: “If liberated souls didn't have forms then how could they engage in the Lord's service?” He gives this answer:

Bhagavati layam praptasyapi nri dehasya mahamuneh punar narayana rupena pradurbhavah

Translation: Even those who have merged into the Lord have a dormant human form [nri deha].

When souls are merged in Brahman they still have individual consciousness but they identify themself with the One known as Brahman. In one way of thinking (called Advaita) there is only one Self that is brahman, and all the individuals in Brahman are One. But in another way of thinking, as explained by Sanatana Goswami in the statements I just presented, Brahman is a Unity of many disembodied souls who are merged in a single thought technically called "sat-chit-ananda", or in other words "eternal-consiousness-[of]-bliss". Brahman is like an ocean of bliss - are there drops of water in the ocean or is the ocean just one pool of water? Some say it is One (Advaita) others say there is diversity.

Souls can arise from the Unity of Brahman and develop ears and mouths to sing and hear the Names of Hari, or souls can arise from Brahman and incarnate in the material world.

Srimad Bhagavatam (10.2.32):

ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas

tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah

aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah

patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah

A person may attain liberation in Brahman and exist within the effulgence of Brahman for aeons, however, “patanty adho 'nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah”, the liberated soul absorbed in sat-chit-ananda may choose to descend into the material world through the feeling of fascination and attraction to worldly bodies and physical life. Assuming a body a self will become caught in the net of karma if one falsely imagines oneself to be the Absolute Being. However, other souls who feel a mood of adoration towards the Absolute Being rise up to a higher and further stage of liberated existence – Vaikuntha.

Souls who enter Vaikuntha and become associates of Lord Hari never return to the material world

Krishna says in the Gita:

Bhagavad Gita 8.15: After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.

[Guest guest]

 

What is the number of individual souls?

1. is it known- limited (there is one exact number)

2.unknown- unlimited (there are a lot! of souls, new one are also coming)

________

 

Not only are there an unlimited number of souls, but before this universe existed there were other universes filled with billions of billions of souls.

 

There have been so many previous universes, in fact, that the number of them is said to be unlimited.

 

 

Is the number of souls changing?

Or is it one exact (fixed,defined) number of individuals?

[Guest guest]

 

________

 

 

 

Is the number of souls changing?

Or is it one exact (fixed,defined) number of individuals?

 

The number of jivas (individual souls) is always infinite. It can never change because all souls were never born and hence no soul can ever die.

[Rishi_L]

The above post was mine and I'd just like to add that Krsna Himself states in the Bhagavad Gita that although bodies are always changing, the soul remains eternally the same.

[Guest guest]

 

The number of jivas (individual souls) is always infinite. It can never change because all souls were never born and hence no soul can ever die.

So it is a fixed number than.

___________________________

 

Than- let's look at only one of this souls, let's look at you (or me)..

 

 

"There are two worlds namely the material world and the anti-material world. The material world is made of inferior qualities energy divided into eight material principles but anti-material world is made of superior qualities energy. And because both the material and anti-material energies are emanations of the Supreme Transcendence Personality of Godhead, it is apt to conclude that Lord Krishna is the ultimate cause of all creations and annihilations."

 

There are two worlds.

 

Did we ever "live" in anti-material world, or not until now?

 

________________________

And final question:

 

Bhagavad Gita 8.15: After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.

If there is fixed number of souls, and if there is a "place" they are "travelling" to, and IF YOU CANNOT COME BACK to "temporary material world" from there- that means- that it really doesn't matter what we do, because sonner or latter we will all "end" there.

Example: There are 100 souls. 60 already got to "that place" (and will not come back), other 40 are still travelling.

 

(What happens when all individual souls come home?)

[Rishi_L]

 

(What happens when all individual souls come home?)

 

That will never happen. Since there is an infinite number of souls, there are nitya-samsarins as well. These are individual souls who will always be bound by samsara.

[Guest guest]

If we say that individual soul is eternal- that means that the number of individual souls is fixed (one exact number). There cannot come new ones- because that would mean, they are not eternal.

(Agree?)

__________

Other questions remain.

[Beggar]

 

If we say that individual soul is eternal- that means that the number of individual souls is fixed (one exact number). There cannot come new ones- because that would mean, they are not eternal.

(Agree?)

__________

Other questions remain.

 

 

 

Srila Jiva Gosvami on Acintya-bhedabheda-tattva

 

11.7

ekam eva tat parama-tattvam svabhavikacintya-saktya sarvadaiva svarupa-

tad-rupa-vaibhava-jiva-pradhana-rupena caturdhavatisthate

suryantarmandalastha-teja iva mandala

tad-bahir-gatarasmi-tat-prattichavi-rupena.

durghata-ghata-katvam hyacintyatvam

The Absolute Truth is one. His natural characteristic is that He has incon-

ceivable potency. His inconceivable potencies are reposed in four different

stages: His personal form (svarupa), the expansions of His divine form (tad-

rupa-vaibhava), the jivas, and the material ingredients (pradhana). With re-

gard to the sun, there is the sungod, the internal power of the sun, and that

power when it is expanded as the external rays of the sun. Then there is the

shadow of the sun, that is to say, the sun's reflection which is in darkness, far

from the sun's influence. This illustration is used as an example. The point of

the example is that in the same way as the sun appears in this fourfold manifes-

tation (the sungod, its internal power, its external rays, and its shadow), there is

one eternal Supreme Truth (the Lord) whose form is eternal, but who is pos-

sessed of different potencies: svarupa-sakti, jiva-sakti, and maya-sakti.

There seems to be a contradiction in this matter between the Lord being

one eternal Absolute Truth and His simultaneously possessing inconceivable

potency. How is it possible to understand such a contradiction? To that it is

said acintya means beyond the jiva's capacity to understand. An event which is

extremely rare or unlikely, even physically impossible, is inconceivable. For

the Supreme Lord, however, nothing is impossible for He has inconceivable

power. [Therefore the Lord's oneness with (and distinction from) His energy is

said to be inconceivable acintya-bhedabheda-vada.]

(Bhagavata-sandarbha 16)

Note: Srila Prabhupada paraphrased this section of Jiva Gosvami's

Bhagavata-sandarbha as follows:

Srila Jiva Gosvami states in Bhagavata-Sandarbha (16) That by His po-

tencies, which act in natural sequences beyond the scope of the specula-

tive human mind, the Supreme Transcendence, the summum bonum, eter-

nally and simultaneously exists in four transcendental features: His per-

sonality, His impersonal effulgence, His potential parts and parcels (the

living beings), and the principal cause of all causes. The Supreme Whole

is compared to the sun, which also exists in four features, namely the

personality of the sun-god, the glare of his glowing sphere, the sun-rays

inside the sun planet, and the sun's reflections in many other objects. The

ambition to corroborate the existence of the transcendental Absolute Truth

by limited conjectural endeavors cannot be fulfilled, because He is be-

yond the scope of our limited speculative minds. In an honest search for

truth we must admit that His powers are inconceivable to our tiny brains.

The exploration of space has demanded the work of the greatest scientists

of the world, yet there are countless problems regarding even fundamen-

tal knowledge of the material creation that bewilder such scientists. Such

material knowledge is far removed from the spiritual nature, and there-

fore the acts and arrangements of the Absolute Truth, are, beyond all

doubts, inconceivable.

[Guest guest]

When asked about what is the cosmos, king yudhisthira answered his father, Lord Yamaraja, thus: "It is empty darkness and nothing else". Yamaraja accepted this answer as correct and released his brothers from death. hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa