Brahma Gayatri - Prabhupada vs. Sridhar Maharaja

[Guruvani]

Can the same gayatri mantra have different meanings?

Can the same mantra with the exact same words and names actually carry different meanings for different devotees?

 

It appears that it's not just the wording of the mantra that carries all the effect, but also the meaning of the mantra as the mantra has been explained by the Acharya.

 

For example, Srila Prabhupada gave the same Brahma Gayatri mantra as did Sridhar Maharaja, but they gave different explanations of the meanings.

 

So, a disciple of Srila Prabhupada will have a different form of thought that arises when he chants gayatri than when a disciple of Sridhar Maharaja chants gayatri.

 

As such, the same mantra might have slightly different effects depending upon the what the mantra means to the disciple.

 

I will show the difference in how Srila Prabhupada explains Brahma Gayatri and how Sridhar Maharaja explains Brahma Gayatri.

 

In Sridhar Maharaja's explanation of Brahma Gayatri he says;

 

 

Above the three planes of mundane experience, bhu, bhuvah, svah is the soul, savitur, who shows us everything just like the sun.

Sridhar Maharaja says savitur indicates the soul.

However, Srila Prabhupada A.C. Bhaktivedanta tells his disciples that:

 

 

It is the Supersoul that inspires the devotee; therefore He is the original source of the Gāyatrī mantra, which states, oḿ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaḿ bhargo devasya dhīmahi dhiyo yo naḥ pracodayāt. Savitā is the original source of all intelligence. That Savitā is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Srila Prabhupada says that savitur is Mahaprabhu.

So, for the disciples of Srila Prabhupada, the Brahma Gayatri is in essence worshiping Mahaprabhu Sri Chaitanya.

For disciples of Sridhar Maharaja it is a meditation on the lotus feet of Srimati Radharani.

 

So, different acharyas attach different meanings to mantras and the meaning of the mantra has a significant impact on the disciple when he chants the mantra.

 

So, the meaning that the acharya attaches to the mantra is as important as the wording of the mantra.

 

It appears that the what the mantra means to the chanter is a very important aspect of the mantra.

 

That meaning is given by the acharya and that meaning varies from acharya to acharya.

 

For a vaidic brahman savitur most usually was understood as the Sun God.

[Guest guest]

ONE FAMILY

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja.

(Los Angeles, May 30, 2000)

 

I pray to my siksa-guru, my friend, and also my sannyasa guru-bhai (god-brother). I have so many kinds of relations with him - so many. We used to talk, sitting on the same bed, the same chair, and joking about so many things. Though I treated him as my siksa-guru, he never saw me as a disciple. He told me, "Our relationship is transcendental." I was so fortunate that as his last service he told me, "Give me samadhi." I am so much obliged to him, because he gave me so many services.

I know that he has not established anything new. He gave the same Krishna consciousness, but with an English name. It is coming from Krishna Himself; He is the root. In this world, in this ISKCON, Brahma is the first acarya. Then, Brahma's son Narada, who is also his disciple, is the second ISKCON acarya. And Narada's elder brothers and teachers, the four Kumaras, are also ISKCON devotees. Whatever is performed by those who love and serve Radha-Krishna conjugal, is performed to please Them.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu are also the real ISKCON. We should try to know that we are all in one family - all. Anyone who is following even a little bit, who is chanting and remembering Krishna in the line of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu - they are ISKCON. They may be in saffron cloth and sannyasa apparel, or they may be in the grhastha ashram, with or without family, alone, or anywhere. All are in ISKCON. That is why the follower of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami, has instructed us to honour all devotees who are in ISKCON, from top to bottom: kanistha adhikaris, madhyama adhikaris, uttama adhikaris, and also uttama uttama uttama adhikaris. We have to respect every one; otherwise we are not ISKCON devotees.

krsneti yasya giri tam manasadriyeta

diksasti cet pranitam ca bhajantam isam

susrusaya bhajana-vijnam ananyam anya-

nindadi-sunya-hrdam ipsita-sanga-labdhya

(Nectar of Instruction Text 5)

["One should mentally honour the devotee who chants the holy name of Lord Krishna, one should offer humble obeisances to the devotee who has undergone spiritual initiation [diksa] and is engaged in worshiping the Deity, and one should associate with and faithfully serve that Pure devotee who is advanced in undeviated devotional service and whose heart is completely devoid of the propensity to criticize others."]

Srila Rupa Gosvami never said that we should only respect our god-brothers, or that we should only respect those in his own line. Never. Whoever is serving Radha-Krishna, anywhere in this world, we should honour him. Even beginners, those who accept that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and who also want to serve Radha and Krishna, are also to be honoured. If one is not initiated, but he is not offensive and he is not associating with mayavadis, he should also be considered as an ISKCON devotee; but as a kanistha-adhikari. Those who have given up all nonsense things, anarthas and misconduct, and who are not criticizing anyone - not even those who are fit to be criticized - and are always chanting and remembering Krishna, are madhyama-adhikari. There are so many categories in madhyama-adhikari: madhyama-kanistha, madhyama-madhyama, madhyama-uttama, and we should try to respect these madhyama adhikaris according to their degree of devotion.

We should also honour those who are superior, who are serving Radha-Krishna Conjugal in astakaliya-lila. They have no time to criticize anyone. Offering pranama to all, paying respect to all, they think that everyone is serving Radha-Krishna Conjugal. They are more than Prahlada Maharaja. We should understand that they are maha-bhagavatas.

krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita matih

kriyatam yadi kuto 'pi labhyate

tatra laulyam ekalam mulyam

janma-kotibhis sukrtibhair na labhyate

(Cc. Madhya, 8.70)

We should honour such a devotee, whether or not he is a disciple of my Gurudeva. He may be of the Syamananda-parivara, the family or disciplic succession of Syamananda Prabhu, or he may be of the Narottama-parivara, or he may be of the Bhirabhadra-parivara, that is, Jahnava-parivara; no harm. Wherever he is, we should understand that he is a maha-bhagavata.

I know personally that Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja, my siksa-guru, used to give proper honour to all. Although I was not initiated by him, oh, how he used to honour me. I was not qualified to sit with him in the same line, but still, he used to take me in his lap like a child. When he would see me he would say, "O, you should sing, I like your singing." He used to play the mrdanga. I know he was a first-class singer. You can hear on his cassettes that he used to sing in a pathetic tune (a tune revealing his intense separation feelings for Radha-Krishna), coming from his heart. And the hearts of anyone hearing him sing these songs would be melted. This is real kirtana. 'Pasu pakhi jhure pasana vidare, suni jara guna gatha.' Srila Locana dasa Thakura sings, "By the mercy of Gaura and Nitai, even the animals and birds cry and the stones melt. Simply my heart has not melted."

Srila Rupa Gosvami has given instructions that we should try properly to respect all kinds of Vaisnavas. Rupa Gosvami knows the heart of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and your Prabhupada was a Rupanuga Vaisnava. Only very rare persons know what is a Rupanuga. Vary rare. But one day we will have to know. Without knowing what is a Rupanuga we cannot advance. If we do not know all these things we cannot even become madhyama-adhikari.

So Srila Svami Maharaja came to this world with a mission of ISKCON - Vaisnavism. What was that? It is the same mission as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's. And who is Mahaprabhu? The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna Himself. But He is also more than that; He is not only Krishna. He is the combination of both Srimati Radhika and Krishna, and therefore He is not only Krishna; He has combined with Srimati Radhika, His power.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu used to always be absorbed in Radha's mood. Krishna did not have Radha's beauty and Her intrinsic mood. Radhika has adhirudha mahabhava, and even more than that. Krishna's mood goes up to mahabhava, but after that, how to serve and to please Krishna, He does not know. He will have to learn by going to the school of Visakha devi, and sometimes to Lalita devi. Without the help of Lalita and Visakha, He cannot relish the mood of Srimati Radhika. So this was the mission of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu - to give these things. Krishna Himself could not do this, but when He took the beauty and the intrinsic mood of Radhika, then He could relish everything in Gandbhira under the guidance of Svarupa Damodara (Lalita) and Ramananda Raya (Visakha). And what was Gadadhara Pandita doing? He was watching to see if Mahaprabhu was playing His role perfectly or not. If He was making some mistake, Sri Gadadhara Pandita, in the mood of Radhika, would 'twist the ears' of Krishna, He would say, "O, You are doing wrong, You should it do like this." When Mahaprabhu was singing: 'barahapidam nata-vara-vapu,' Gadadhara Pandita quickly came and said, "O, You should do it like this:

barhapitam nata-vara-vapuh karnayoh karnikaram

bibhrad vasah kanaka-kapisam vaijayantim ca malam

randhran venor adhara-sudhayapurayan gopa-vrndair

vrndaranyam sva-pada-ramanam pravisad gita-kirtih

["Wearing a peacock-feather ornament upon His head, blue karnikara flowers on His ears, a yellow garment as brilliant as gold, and the Vaijayanti garland, Lord Krishna exhibited His transcendental form as the greatest of dancers as He entered the forest of Vrindavana, beautifying it with the marks of His footprints. He filled the holes of His flute with the nectar of His lips, and the cowherd boys sang His glories." (SB. 10.21.5)]

He was perspiring, His heart melting, and His tears were falling like heavy rain. There was some defect in Krishna, and Gadadhara Pandita therefore instructed Him. To think that Krishna had taken away the beauty and intrinsic mood of Radhika and had become Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and that Gadadhara Pandita had thus became Rukmini, is quite wrong. It is not like this.

Srila Svami Maharaja came for the same object and mission as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu - that the jivas should be given raga marga. They should know who Srimati Radhika is, and what are all these moods. When Srila Svami Maharaja came to New Jersey, Boston, and New York, however, he realized that he had to cut so many jungles. If the land is not fertile, how can this seed of bhakti be given? The jungles were very dense and wild, with so many wild beasts, dangerous animals and poisonous snakes. It took time, but he kept everything reserved in his books. He told his disciples to read about the life and character of Prahlada Maharaja, Citraketu Maharaja, and others. He had so little time, because the bell rang. Krishna called him, "I cannot be without you. I need your service. Please come at once." He was then bound to go to his Prabhu. One may say that he has given everything in his books. Yes, he has given everything. But you will have to go deep, through any Vaisnava:

yaha bhagavat pada vaisnavera sthane

ekanta asraya kara caitanya carane

(Antya-lila 5. 131)

A so-called Vaisnava cannot give you these truths. If one is not following, what will be the result? He will not understand. No one can be in the same class for twenty or twenty five years, or for his whole life, or forever. If he is not advancing, improving, then he must fall down; and that is now becoming the fact. Prabhupada's disciples came with so much honour to serve Krishna. This desire is there, and they are engaged in so many things. However, they don't have any way to advance, and that is why their whole way is blocked. Where will they go? They are sure to go down.

We should not always remain in the kanistha-adhikari stage. There should be a way to go up to something superior, but our minds will not go there. We should try to make advancement through someone who is superior, through those who are practically serving, whose minds are there, who know Prabhupada's mood, and who know the very deep process of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami that Srila Svami Maharaja has written about in his books. We should try to go very deep.

You can see in the sloka:

tan-nama-rupa-caritadi-sukirtananu-

smrtyoh kramena rasana-manasi niyojya

tisthan vraje tad-anuragi jananugami

kalam nayed akhilam ity upadesa-saram

(Nectar of Instruction, Text 8)

Srila Svamiji Maharaja has explained the mood of Rupa Gosvami so well. If a person has many worldly desires and is full of anarthas, no harm. If he has some greed to serve Radha-Krishna Conjugal in the line of Rupa Gosvami, he can do so. He can think of Radha-Krishna. He can sing, "Radha-Krishna prana mora yugula kisora", and also, "Rupa raghunatha pade hoibe akuti, kabe hama bujhabo se yugala piriti". What is the meaning?

Aranya Maharaja: When will I become eager to follow in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami? Only then will I be able to realize what is the priti, the love and affection between Radha and Krishna.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: How will this be possible? By the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu. 'Ara kabe Nitaicandra.' So Nityananda Prabhu's mercy is essential. I have heard Srila Svami Maharaja sing this song: 'parama karuna, pahu dui jana, nitai gauracandra; saba avatara sara siromani kevala ananda kanda.' Even in the beginning we realize the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu. But why has Srila Narottama dasa Thakura prayed to Rupa-Raghunatha? Srila Rupa Gosvami is the heart of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Rupa-Raghunatha can give the service of Radha-Krishna. Nityananda Prabhu can also give it, but not in the shape of Baladeva Prabhu or Nityananda Prabhu. He can give it in the shape of Ananga Manjari. Rupa Gosvami is Rupa manjari. He can give all the moods to serve Srimati Radhika.

We should try to know these truths and advance from kanistha-adhikari to madhyama. Then we will never fall down. A taste will come, and when that taste comes in chanting, remembering and hearing hari-katha, then Krishna will manifest in the heart and purify it. We will become madhyama-kanistha, madhyama-madhyama, madhyama-uttama, and then maha-bhagavata-kanistha. So we should try to know all these things, and try to have all these things.

First we should try to have taste. How will it come? If you are not always associating with a high class of Vaisnavas, even your chanting and remembering will not do. Never. Srila Sukadeva Gosvami has therefore given the process: FIRST sravanam, and THEN kirtanam, and then serving and meditating. Sravana, hearing, should be done. Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srimad Bhagavatam have both told:

dharmah svanusthitah pumsam

visvaksena-kathasu yah

notpadayed yadi ratim

srama eva hi kevalam

["Duties (dharma) executed by men, regardless of occupation, are only so much useless labour if they do not provoke attraction for the message of the Supreme Lord." Following a system of religion that does not awaken one's Krishna consciousness, or God consciousness, is merely a waste of time and labour." SB 6.16.43]

Srila Narayana Maharaja: What is the meaning?

Syamarani dasi: If someone is following all the principles of varnasrama, following all the regulations, and following the Vedas, but he doesn't have any taste for hearing from the topmost sadhus.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Even if he is chanting and serving in so many ways; even if he is reading the books, but…

Syamarani dasi: If he doesn't have any taste for hearing from pure sadhus about the sweet lila and glories of Krishna, then all of his activities come to zero.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes. You should always know this. Chanting alone will not do. It will not be first-class, or pure. If you are hearing hari-katha, then your chanting of the Holy Name will be pure. The Holy Name is always pure. 'Purna suddha nitya mukta vinatva nama namine.' The Nama is always Krishna Himself. They are not different. But we cannot realize this. We must always be hearing, and hearing, from realized souls.

Narada can tell anyone, any creature, even just by looking at him, "O, you should now be a high-class maha-bhagavata." Simply by telling someone this, he can make that person become like himself. A madhyama-bhagavata cannot do this. He will give his association and hari-katha. A kanistha-adhikari can only say, "You should come to my Gurudeva; you should come to this pure devotee." He can only say this much. On one hand all this is mercy, but Narada can at once say, "O, Krishna-prema should come, and you should dance and sing." He has the capacity to say that, because he has controlled Krishna in his heart by his services. He is therefore a maha-maha-maha-bhagavata.

I request everyone to remember that we are in the one family of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja's mission was to give this vision. He came to these western countries where there was no sign of bhakti, where all were engaged in sense gratification. They were always accustomed to take beef and so many things. Mercifully, in a year or two, he changed the whole world. It was a miracle. He translated so many books, and by his mercy he accepted so many disciples who were very powerful at that time. He inspired them and engaged them through his teachings everywhere he went. He made them all so powerful that you cannot imagine it.

I know that in France and other areas Bhagavan Prabhu was so famous. He made a big school, New Mayapura, where there were more than three hundred devotees and also a big gosala. You cannot imagine. However, when I went to see that place two years ago, I saw that all the land and trees were weeping. There was no life there; it was like a desert. When Srila Svami Maharaja used to sing there, he was weeping in ecstasy. But what became of it all after he left? So I request him (Bhagavan) also, "You can not be happy in this world, my dear friend Bhagavan Prabhu. This world can cheat you. You will never be happy. You should therefore have strong faith in your Gurudeva. He was not any ordinary person; he was transcendental. He came from there, for the enlightenment of all."

I think it will be better that you remain where you are:

jnane prayasam udapasya namanta eva

jivanti san-mukharitam bhavadiya-vartam

sthane sthitah sruti-gatah tanu-van-manobhir

ye prayaso 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyam

["Lord Brahma said, 'O my Lord Krishna, a devotee who abandons the path of empiric philosophical speculation aimed at merging in the existence of the Supreme and engages himself in hearing Your glories and activities from a bona fide sadhu, or saint, and who lives an honest life in the occupational engagement of his social life, can conquer Your sympathy and mercy even though You are ajita, or unconquerable.'" (Bhag. 10.14.3)]

All have seen that in this world there is no happiness. There are so many problems and problems. These problems are like poisonous snakes, and death is like a tiger. We cannot say when we will die. Problems are coming one after another, like very large waves - twelve feet and even twenty feet. So I request you all, not to come down. Try to have a taste in the Name and in hari-katha. And, when you hear that a good, bona fide devotee is coming and giving classes, you should certainly attend. This will bring you a taste in all these devotional activities. All your paths will be thus open, and then you can go up very soon and very easily. You will see that your Guruji is smiling and saying, "Oh, I am very lucky that you have come. Now we should all serve Radha and Krishna."

So we should be like a family - not thinking that we are enemies. There should be no fear at all. Why fear? If we want to serve Radha-Krishna in the same line as our predecessor acaryas, why fear? Helping each other, therefore, we should follow the mission of Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, our Gurudeva, and Srila Rupa and Sanatana Gosvamis; and be happy. Then we may see that ISKCON will be changed. I went to so many places in the world, and I saw that nowadays hardly anyone honours ISKCON leaders, nor their god-brothers, nor even third class devotees. No one honours anyone. That is why they are losing so much. If they properly respect each other, and also chant and remember, they must change.

Gaura Premanande!

[Guruvani]

I never read long copy/paste of Narayana Maharaja.

 

In fact, I don't read anything pasted up from Narayana Maharaja and I would appreciate it if you didn't fill up this topic with copy-paste of Narayana Maharaja.

Pasting up lectures of Narayana Maharaja is not participation on a topic.

 

It is most often just a way of slapping people in the face with Narayana Maharaja.

 

If you can't contribute to the topic apart from pasting up lectures of Narayana Maharaja, then please find another topic to join.

[Guest guest]

Yes, the Brahma Gayatri mantra has various meanings and that is why it is important to meditate on it 3 times a day. It is the source of all other Gayatri mantras - all other mantras flow from it.

[Guruvani]

Now, here is another interesting thing I have found about the Brahma Gayatri mantra as explained by Srila Prabhupada.

 

If savita indicates Mahaprabhu and bhargo indicates the "plane known as the svarupa-sakti which is the internal pleasure potency of deva,Krishna," as according to Sridhar Maharaja, then in the Brahma Gayatri as explained by Srila Prabhupada this bhargo must indicate Gadadhara.

 

If savita is Gaura, then bhargo must be Gadadhar.

 

So, as per the fact that Gaura-Gadadhara worship is the symbol of madhurya-rasa, we can only conclude that Srila Prabhupada was giving madhurya bhava in his explanation of Brahma Gayatri.

 

The Brahma Gayatri as given by Srila Prabhupada is a meditation upon the lotus feet of Sri Gadadhar the svarupa-shakti of Mahaprabhu.

 

That is my conclusion.

 

It has to be.

 

Because savitur is Mahaprabhu then bhargo cannot be anything but his internal potency Gadadhar.

 

The Brahma Gayatri as given by Srila Prabhupada is a meditation on Sri-Sri Gaura and Gadadhara as they excite our capacity to render devotional service.

 

 

 

[Guruvani]

now, I am sure that my conclusions will be plagiarized by some other party, but the fact is you heard it first right here, right now.

[Guruvani]

I would also like to mention that Srila Prabhupada has demonstrated that savita means Mahaprabhu on the basis of Ramananda Raya admitting that the Supersoul of all living entities is actually Mahaprabhu.

 

So, Srila Prabhupada shows the conclusion that savita in Brahma Gayatri is Mahaprabhu on the basis of Ramananda Raya's assertion that Mahaprabhu is the Supersoul.

[Guruvani]

 

Here Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya admits that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the Supersoul. It is the Supersoul that inspires the devotee; therefore He is the original source of the Gāyatrī mantra, which states, oḿ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaḿ bhargo devasya dhīmahi dhiyo yo naḥ pracodayāt. Savitā is the original source of all intelligence. That Savitā is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

 

 

This is confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (2.4.22):

 

 

pracoditā yena purā sarasvatī

vitanvatājasya satīḿ smṛtiḿ hṛdi

sva-lakṣaṇā prādurabhūt kilāsyataḥ

sa me ṛṣīṇām ṛṣabhaḥ prasīdatām

 

"May the Lord, who in the beginning of the creation amplified the potent knowledge of Brahmā from within his heart and inspired him with full knowledge of creation and His own self, and who appeared to be generated from the mouth of Brahmā, be pleased with me." This was spoken by Śukadeva Gosvāmī when he invoked the blessing of the Supreme Personality of Godhead before delivering Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to Mahārāja Parīkṣit.

 

[Guruvani]

So, as Sridhar Maharaja has shown that Brahma Gayatri ultimately leads to the conception of Radha-dasyam, Srila Prabhupada is showing the same thing only through the Gaura-Gadadhar conception.

[Guruvani]

This is the summary explanation of Brahma Gayatri as explained by Sridhar Maharaja.

 

 

"Above the three planes of mundane experience, bhu, bhuvah, svah is the soul, savitur, who shows us everything just like the sun. Above the soul is the supersubjective plane which is varenyam, most venerated and worshipable. That worshipable plane of existence is called bhargo, brilliant and illuminating. The supersubjective area, bhargo, is the plane known as the svarupa-sakti which is the internal pleasure potency of deva, Krishna, Reality the Beautiful. That bhargo is His own divine potency Srimati Radharani. Let us meditate upon the lotus feet of Srimati Radharani, whose extended self and essential nature, mahabhava, is the svarupa-sakti, and who enthuses our capacity of devotional service. Let us surrender unto Her divine service."

[Guest guest]

If you have them, could you include the reference for the quotes you use? That will inspire us to read the entire verse or chapter.

Thanks.

[muralidhar_das]

What a joke.

 

My Guru Maharaj's divine commentary on Gayatri, a mantra that only an initiate is supposed to know, is turned into a point of discussion for ritviks and non-believers such as Kshamabuddhi.

 

If it wasn't such a tragic abuse and offence against everything that I consider holy, it would be merely nauseating. But since this whole topic is an aparadha all I can do is go away.

 

What will we see next? Maybe some genius will invent a robot that walks around and speaking the words in "Prabhupada's books". It's head can be a 1973 edition of Gita as it is. And this robot can give you diksa if you sit in front of it. Just offer a flower and the robot will say "om bhu bhuvah swah" etc. Everything is in Prabhupada's books, we hear them say. So if you get a robot and load all the books into a few Gb of RAM then the robot will be better than any living guru - oh I forgot, it is "bad" to suggest that a guru can be anything other than living. If you say a Guru is departed, the Book-Vani crowd will call you a fool.

[theist]

I don't understand your objection Muralidhar. The quotes Guruvani provided from Sridhar Maharaja are from published works I would assume.

[Guruvani]

 

What a joke.

 

My Guru Maharaj's divine commentary on Gayatri, a mantra that only an initiate is supposed to know, is turned into a point of discussion for ritviks and non-believers such as Kshamabuddhi.

 

If it wasn't such a tragic abuse and offence against everything that I consider holy, it would be merely nauseating. But since this whole topic is an aparadha all I can do is go away.

 

What will we see next? Maybe some genius will invent a robot that walks around and speaking the words in "Prabhupada's books". It's head can be a 1973 edition of Gita as it is. And this robot can give you diksa if you sit in front of it. Just offer a flower and the robot will say "om bhu bhuvah swah" etc. Everything is in Prabhupada's books, we hear them say. So if you get a robot and load all the books into a few Gb of RAM then the robot will be better than any living guru - oh I forgot, it is "bad" to suggest that a guru can be anything other than living. If you say a Guru is departed, the Book-Vani crowd will call you a fool.

Looks whos talking.

Just yesterday I saw a topic in the archives at Gaudiya Discussions where you were blabbing the gaura gayatri mantra in front of the siddha-pranali people.

The difference is that you were blabbing Gaura gayatri which is even more confidential than Brahma Gayatri.

 

The Brahma Gayatri is all over the internet.

 

Anyway, Beavis, I pulled the commentary off of B.G. Narasimha Maharaja's website, so if you have a problem with it being public maybe you should talk to him about it chump.

 

Here is the whole thing in that website.

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/ssm_gayatri.html

[Guruvani]

 

If you have them, could you include the reference for the quotes you use? That will inspire us to read the entire verse or chapter.

Thanks.

 

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/srila_sridhara_mj/ssm_gayatri.html

[Guruvani]

check this out as well..........

 

http://www.gosai.com/krishna-talk/gayatri-as-radharani-47.html

[Guruvani]

 

If you have them, could you include the reference for the quotes you use? That will inspire us to read the entire verse or chapter.

Thanks.

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 8.265

 

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 8.265

 

antaryāmī īśvarera ei rīti haye

bāhire nā kahe, vastu prakāśe hṛdaye

 

SYNONYMS

antaryāmī — the Supersoul; īśvarera — of the Personality of Godhead; ei — this; rīti — the system; haye — is; bāhire — externally; nā kahe — does not speak; vastu — the facts; prakāśe — manifests; hṛdaye — within the heart.

 

 

TRANSLATION

Rāmānanda Rāya continued, "The Supersoul within everyone's heart speaks not externally but from within. He instructs the devotees in all respects, and that is His way of instruction."

PURPORT

Here Śrī Rāmānanda Rāya admits that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the Supersoul. It is the Supersoul that inspires the devotee; therefore He is the original source of the Gāyatrī mantra, which states, oḿ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaḿ bhargo devasya dhīmahi dhiyo yo naḥ pracodayāt. Savitā is the original source of all intelligence. That Savitā is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (2.4.22):

 

 

pracoditā yena purā sarasvatī

vitanvatājasya satīḿ smṛtiḿ hṛdi

sva-lakṣaṇā prādurabhūt kilāsyataḥ

sa me ṛṣīṇām ṛṣabhaḥ prasīdatām

 

"May the Lord, who in the beginning of the creation amplified the potent knowledge of Brahmā from within his heart and inspired him with full knowledge of creation and His own self, and who appeared to be generated from the mouth of Brahmā, be pleased with me." This was spoken by Śukadeva Gosvāmī when he invoked the blessing of the Supreme Personality of Godhead before delivering Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to Mahārāja Parīkṣit.

 

[Guruvani]

 

 

What will we see next? Maybe some genius will invent a robot that walks around and speaking the words in "Prabhupada's books". It's head can be a 1973 edition of Gita as it is. And this robot can give you diksa if you sit in front of it. Just offer a flower and the robot will say "om bhu bhuvah swah" etc. Everything is in Prabhupada's books, we hear them say. So if you get a robot and load all the books into a few Gb of RAM then the robot will be better than any living guru - oh I forgot, it is "bad" to suggest that a guru can be anything other than living. If you say a Guru is departed, the Book-Vani crowd will call you a fool.

Well, Murali,

Its too bad that you have to be against the Gaudiya siddhanta and being so offensive to the literary incarnations of the Lord and the spiritual masters.

Its unfortunate that you see a difference between the instructions of the spiritual master and the spiritual master, since the spiritual master only lives to impart those instructions.

 

The books are non-different from Krishna.

The books are non-different than the spiritual master.

 

So, to think otherwise is hellish mentality.

 

Next thing you know ol' Muralidhar will be telling us that the deity is just a piece of marble or a hunk of brass.

 

The books are living my friend.

Your idea that the books or the spiritual master are dead is a very poor commentary on your state of mind.

 

In fact, I would go so far as to say that Srila Prabhupada is initiating disciples with his books.

 

The books are sabdha-brahma as much as any sound is sabdha-brahma.

 

If you were acquainted with the teachings of your own guru you should now that by now.

[Guruvani]

 

<table cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td class="catend" colspan="2"><!-- no content -->

</td> </tr> </tbody></table><!--Begin Msg Number 7488--> <table cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr> <td class="row2" valign="middle" width="1%">Madhava</td> <td class="row2" valign="top" width="99%"> <!-- POSTED DATE DIV --> Oct 8 2002, 04:03 AM

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#89

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="post2" valign="top">

 

Grass 'n' Trees

 

Group: Full Member

Posts: 1,090

Joined: 2-March 05

Radha-kunda

Member No.: 20

Title: Optional

 

</td> <td class="post2" valign="top" width="100%"> <!-- THE POST 7488 --> An interesting observation.

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<!--QuoteBegin-Muralidhar+follower,of,Sridhar,Maharaja-->QUOTE(Muralidhar @ follower,of,Sridhar,Maharaja)

<!--QuoteEBegin-->klim krishnachaitanyaya vidmahe vishwambharaya dhimahi tanno gaura prachodayat

As the last word in the mantra says (prachodayat), I have nothing to fear when I repeat this mantra.<!--QuoteEnd-->

<!--QuoteEEnd-->

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So, Muralidhar,

now whos the knucklehead?

 

Nothing to fear when repeating the Gaura Gayatri given by your Gurudeva?

 

Then why you trying to bash me here for posting a commentary and not even the mantra?

 

(well, I posted links where it is available elsewhere)

[Guruvani]

The Kāma-gāyatrī mantra is just like a Vedic hymn, but it is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. There is no difference between the Kāma-gāyatrī and Kṛṣṇa. Both are composed of twenty-four and a half transcendental syllables (see Madhya 21.125-29). The mantra depicted in letters is also Kṛṣṇa, and the mantra rises just like the moon. Due to this, there is a perverted reflection of desire in human society and among all kinds of living entities. In the mantra klīḿ kāma-devāya vidmahe puṣpa-bāṇāya dhīmahi tan no 'nańgaḥ pracodayāt, Kṛṣṇa is called Kāma-deva, Puṣpa-bāṇa and Anańga. Kāma-deva is Madana-mohana, the Deity who establishes our relationship with Kṛṣṇa; Puṣpa-bāṇa ("He who carries an arrow made of flowers") is Govinda, the Personality of Godhead who accepts our devotional service; and Anańga is Gopījana-vallabha, who satisfies all the gopīs and is the ultimate goal of life. This Kāma-gāyatrī (klīḿ kāma-devāya vidmahe puṣpa-bāṇāya dhīmahi tan no 'nańgaḥ pracodayāt) simply does not belong to this material world. When one is advanced in spiritual understanding, he can worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead with his spiritually purified senses and fulfill the desires of the Lord.