Worshipping a Beautiful Idea

[Guruvani]

 

Prabhupada's comments about Christ as if Christ was a real

historical figure show that he had no knowledge that the

Christ story is a literary fraud. There was no Christian messiah

as he is described in the New Testament(NT). Everything he's

supposed to have said and done was borrowed directly or

rewritten from the writings of other nations and religions.

 

NT's main sources are the Old Testament and Hindu-Buddhist

literature. Regional literatures from Egypt, Greece, Rome,

Persia and others are its auxiliary sources. The "new" in

the New Testament is a compilation of selected teachings,

declarations, parables, stories and descriptions of events

from Hindu-Buddhist texts.

 

I agree.

Srila Prabhupada used Jesus because the Jesus conception is big in the western world. He played off of the Jesus thing because as he said before he didn't come to the west to wage war against Christianity. That was a smart decision. Coming to the USA like that and attacking Christianity would be asking for the KKK to come burn your temple down.

Srila Prabhupada was wiser than that.

 

He played the Jesus card for all it was worth.

As he admitted, he never studied Christianity and all he knew about it was hearsay.

Many intellectuals and scholars of today can certainly shine a new light on the Jesus story.

If someone drops sentiment and faces the facts, the Jesus story starts to fall apart against critical analysis.

 

It all hinges on some so-called historian Josephus.

Josephus himself is very much a questionable character as well.

 

None the less, as Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita that all these offerings are actually meant for him but offered without true understanding.

 

So, the Christians might get a little benefit from their faith in God.

 

When they pray, the Supersoul knows they are praying to him even if they don't.

[mahak]

Lord Jesus Christ is confused with the materialistic religion called christianity.

 

It may be well true that other histories and lores were borrowed upon to make what is now christianity, especially from the druids, akkadians, etc. Maybe even a little King Tut. But none of this stuff has any bearing upon the person fully praised by Srila Prabhupada. History is the property of the cultural victor.

 

However, traditions of the real Lord Jesus Christ have been handed down, some rather pure, some very non-aggressive, some even fully vegan (like the Cathars and gnostics of Abyssinia). This is very common, BTW, as I remember some dewscriptions in Chaitanya Charitamrta about non-bonafide claimants of discipleship of Lord Nityananda prabhu. Do we ever say that Lord Nityananda is bogus because some of his followers descendents got the wrong ideas?

 

Christianity seems terribly flawed. In my studies, I find is absurd that armageddonism (my word for fanaticism of final days, wars, rumors of wars, etc) seems to be a main teaching, and people actually have intent on "bringing it on" to foster some bogus second coming. Yet the new testament clearly states that Jesus said these predictions will come to pass before those whom he was speaking to pass away, and all these things did come true. The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is the event missed by the christian, and they disregard their gurus actual teachings on simple spiritual behavior in favor of waiting for something to happen that has come and gone.

 

Another serious misunderstanding is the book of prophecy of St John the divine (revelation). This is the textbook for the bogus armageddonist, yet it is written as a thesis of personal death, what happens when the self is obliged to relinquish the body. Yet politicos who have co-opted the bible to control the throngs want them to believe that a big battle is to taqke place between satan and god with us stuck in the middle, so we need to give our fear to god. Fear of God. This is christianity is all about. It is actually the religion of King Kamsa, a perverted relationship with the Supreme Being.

 

But Lord Jesus doesnt teach fear of God. He speaks of a loving Father, a good shepherd, a merciful and compassionate Father who wants to bring us back from our nightmare existance aloof from Him. Throughout history, though, movements that reflect this LOVE OF GOD opposed to FEAR OF GOD are crushed, as with the cathars and the abyssinians, druids and hippies. Sometimes, lip-service of appreciation to real followers of Jesus (i.e. Mata Theresa, Albert Schweitzer, Th. Merton, etc) is given, but these saints are disregarded after the news of their deaths leaves the media.

 

The worship of beautiful ideas is the understanding of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is not a beautiful idea, because it was born in a fareinheit 452 book burning of the biographies of Salome, Magdalina, Mary of Axum, the beginnings of mysogeny carried out by constantine and sylvester. Christianity is all about destroying the beautiful ideas of Lord Jesus Christ, and he has even predficted this as something that will come to pass (after the armageddon of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple of Solomon in 70 AD). He says to such perverted armageddonist jihadi christians, "get away from me, you workers of iniquity, for you fail to do the will of the Father."

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Buddha founded the world's first missionary religion.

When prominent people wanted to embrace the new faith,

he advised them to stay within their own, to continue

to do good works and give their decision much thought

before making the change.

 

One of the famous Ashokan rock edicts says that by

repecting others' faiths one brings respect to his

own and enhances it.

 

Srila Prabhupada's praise of Christ and Christianity is

very much in this sipirit of the long Indian traditions

of tolerance in matters of religious faith.

 

The Middle-Eastern religions have an entirely different

spirit. Judaism is a tribal religion in its world-view.

When Christianity became the state religion

of Rome, it set out to discredit and destroy every other

religious and philosophical system. The Dark Ages

descended upon Europe because of the church's opposition

to the study and application of science. Jews were

denounced as Christ killers when the church's Christ

himself never existed. The animus toward Jews whipped up

by the church eventually led to the Holocaust.

Christianity's destructive rampage and crimes against

humanity in the Americas and later in some other parts

of the world during the colonial era are well-known and

well-documented.

 

Islam is merely a revised version of Christianity.

Their brutal histories are almost identical. Christianity's

"There is no salvation except through Christ the only son of God"

was reworked by Muhammad to "There is no God but Allah and

Muhammad is his last and final prophet."

[theist]

I see Plastic Scholastic is back with his bigotry. I skip his posts myself finding it counter productive to try to rid myself our all forms of bigotry in my own thinking while taking in someone elses.

[Guruvani]

 

Buddha founded the world's first missionary religion.

When prominent people wanted to embrace the new faith,

he advised them to stay within their own, to continue

to do good works and give their decision much thought

before making the change.

 

One of the famous Ashokan rock edicts says that by

repecting others' faiths one brings respect to his

own and enhances it.

 

Srila Prabhupada's praise of Christ and Christianity is

very much in this sipirit of the long Indian traditions

of tolerance in matters of religious faith.

 

The Middle-Eastern religions have an entirely different

spirit. Judaism is a tribal religion in its world-view.

When Christianity became the state religion

of Rome, it set out to discredit and destroy every other

religious and philosophical system. The Dark Ages

descended upon Europe because of the church's opposition

to the study and application of science. Jews were

denounced as Christ killers when the church's Christ

himself never existed. The animus toward Jews whipped up

by the church eventually led to the Holocaust.

Christianity's destructive rampage and crimes against

humanity in the Americas and later in some other parts

of the world during the colonial era are well-known and

well-documented.

 

Islam is merely a revised version of Christianity.

Their brutal histories are almost identical. Christianity's

"There is no salvation except through Christ the only son of God"

was reworked by Muhammad to "There is no God but Allah and

Muhammad is his last and final prophet."

 

If we take our blinders off and get objective, this kind of thinking is the logical outcome.

 

The Abrahamic religions have the most brutal history of any religions ever known to man.

 

The Jews were brutal too.

 

We have to look at the realistic result of Christian bigotry instead of manufacturing some false utopia that never existed under the name of Christ.

 

The entire history of Judeo-Christian is nothing but brutal conquest and religious bigotry..

 

To this very day the Christian bigots are verbally brutalizing all the other religions of the world and if they could get away with it they would annihilate all the non-christians from the face of the Earth.

 

The slaughter has stopped only by the force of law.

[Guruvani]

Emperor Theodosius saw the Roman Empire getting threatened and weak from the hedonistic culture of Rome, so he made Christianity the state religion with the idea to get the people out of their degraded lifestyles and become a kingdom of religious fanatics willing to fight for God and the kingdom.

 

It's been on a roll ever since.

[AncientMariner]

The way I view Christianity is in its essence it is very similar to Krsna Consciousness. I believe that anyone who has faith in Jesus Christ and hears of his story will be liberated from birth and death similar to how hearing Vedic literature liberates the hearers from birth and death. I don't buy this stuff that Jesus was an ordinary fella but whatever floats your boat.

[AncientMariner]

Found some Prabhupada quotes on Christianity and Islam in this article <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=435 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=420><CENTER>

EDITORIAL</CENTER>February 10, 2006 VNN8910

Islam & Krsna

BY NARARATNA DAS

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>:

 

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada:

 

1. "Hazrat Muhammad, the inaugurator of the Islam religion, I accept him as an empowered servant of God because he preached God-consciousness in those parts of the world and induced them to accept the authority of God. He is accepted as the servant of God and we have all respect for him."? ( Letter, 2-4-1976)

 

2. So therefore, by that symptom, we accept Lord Jesus Christ as Saktyaves avatara, or Hazrat Muhammad, he's also. Because these two religious leaders of the world, they preached about the glorification of the Supreme Lord. And they sacrificed everything for preaching the glories of the Lord. Therefore... And their influence and their followers, there are... These are the symptoms by which we can understand that Jesus Christ and Hazrat Muhammad was, were Saktyaves avataras. ( CC Madhya-lila 20.367-84)

 

3. "Vedas means the books of transcendental knowledge. Not only the Bhagavad Gita, even the Bible or the Quran, they are also."? (lecture 29-7-68)

 

4. Srila Prabhupada:No, no. Christianity is Vaisnavism.

 

Dr. Patel: Vaisnavism? Absolutely Vaisnavism.

 

Srila Prabhupada:Islam is also Vaisnavism.

 

Dr. Patel: Mohammedanism is not Vaisnavism.

 

Srila Prabhupada:No, no. Caitanya Mahaprabhu had talked with the Pathanas.

 

He proved that "Your religion is Vaisnavism."? (February 17, 1974, Bombay) 5. "Chaitanya Mahaprabhu proved devotional service from the Quran.

 

So, it requires a devotee who can explain God from any Godly literature"? ( Morning Walk, June 6, 1974, Geneva)

 

6. "Then Islam is Vaishnava dharma in a crude form like christianty."?(room conversation, Tehran 14-3-75)

 

7. They accept God. They are also our brothers because they accept God. They are not atheist. Atheist don't accept God. "there is no God"? say the atheist.

 

But here they are theists. They accept God. They want to please God. They go to the church, go to mosques, offer prayers. Prayers is also bhakti, devotional service. The Christian way or the Muslim way is to offer prayer. The Muslims offer obeisences & offer prayer. So that is also Bhakti (devotion). The Christians also do that, so that is also bhakti. And they accept God; We accept God. So there is no difference. But the only point is who is that God. ( room conversation, Tehran 14-3-75) So you can see what is our mission, simply to try and increase our attraction and their attraction to the Supreme personality of Godhead, Lord Sri Krsna & help them to develop further attachment to Krsna and loving service unto Krsna (Bhakti yoga). What process they choose to follow, like Prabhupada we should leave upto each individual to decide for themselves without any tinge of label, bodily identification (you must join my group) rubbish.

 

Krsna Himself says: "Thus I have explained to you knowledge still more confidential. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do"? Bhagavad Gita 18-63.

 

"?My mission is not turn any one from the affiliation of a particular religion but I want to let them know more knowledge about God and devotion."? 6-11-1965, (letters) Srila Prabhupada.

 

"Actually, we are not teaching a particular type of faith. We are teaching the post graduate studies of all religions:we are teaching people how to love God and who is the man that will deny this principle?"? 5-12-68, Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=435 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=420><CENTER>

</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Guruvani]

Krishna said abandon Jesus and Mohammed and surrender unto him.

 

Anything else is self-deception.

[AncientMariner]

 

Krishna said abandon Jesus and Mohammed and surrender unto him.

 

Anything else is self-deception.

 

 

My understanding is that Krishna said to abandon all varieties of religion and surrender to Him but does that mean you abandon the persons of Jesus and Mohammed if they are empowered servants of the Lord. Your statement seems misleading in my opinion and in my understanding is not exactly what Krishna said but I could be wrong and if so I apologize in advance. It is my understanding that the Lord teaches in Bhagavad Gita that serving the servant of the Lord is even more benificial than serving the Lord directly. Prabhupada said Jesus and Mohammed are empowered servants of the Lord so that is good enough for me, and subsequently I am willing to offer them all due respect.

[theist]

Doesn't everyone know by now that Guruvani is a multi-headed multi-personality. Every head has a different view point on any given subject. The one thing they all share is whatever they say they say with absolute conviction.

 

One starts a thread that the books are allegories. Then the next one starts a thread explaining how they are not allegories and anyone who says they are are worshippers of modern scientists.

 

Take him seriously and you will become as crazy as he is.

[Guest guest]

I'd render Chapter 7 Verse 23 in the Gita

this way:

 

 

Those who choose to worship false godmen

will go to those false godmen.

 

Temporary are their rewards and temporary

are their gains.

 

Those who choose to love Me and worship Me

will come to Me the One True Being.

 

 

JC & Mo:

false godmen for the feebleminded.

[Guruvani]

 

 

Take him seriously and you will become as crazy as he is.

 

 

 

ok, whatever you say!

[theist]

 

I'd render Chapter 7 Verse 23 in the Gita

this way:

 

No one gives a damn how you would render any verse in the Gita. Please understand your own irrelevancy in these matters. We only want to hear Gita from Krsna's pure devotee and friend.

[theist]

 

 

 

ok, whatever you say!

 

What? Me worry?

 

My avatar lost much of it clarity when I shrank it. I sure do look sharp in my Wall street mode as you posted, but my sixties mode is still where my heart is. Oh well.