Different Souls

[omsadhak]

What is the difference between a soul of an human and that of a micro-organism ?

[mahak]

there is only the difference of separate existance, individuality. One seems to have more consciousness, freer will, etc. Less entrapment. Ability to want out, acknowledgement of bondage.

 

ears

 

mahaksadasa

[Guruvani]

it appears that brahmacarya is misspelled in that domain name you are advertising in your signature.

 

but, soul in the micro-organism is the same as the soul of Lord Brahma.

the difference is the subjective evolution of consciousness.

 

when a soul becomes dis-integrated with the absolute whole it begins a long journey of evolution in consciousness.

 

after many millions of years of evolution of the soul, the soul acquires greater knowledge and experience and evolves through higher forms of life.

 

the soul of the micro-organism is the same as the soul of the human, only far less evolved through the life forms.

[omsadhak]

I couldn't get the right word 'Brahmacharya.org' for the domain name as it was already taken.

 

Thanks for a great reply .

[Guest guest]

 

when a soul becomes dis-integrated with the absolute whole it begins a long journey of evolution in consciousness.

 

 

Can you explain more about this?

What do you mean?

[omsadhak]

So evolution of brain is directly proportional to the evolution of a soul ? May be we can come up with some scientific formula which can find a time period when a soul of micro-organism can become as evolved as ours.

[Guruvani]

 

Can you explain more about this?

What do you mean?

 

the Vedic scriptures describe that the soul is like a spark and the absolute spirit whole is like a fire. if a spark pops out from that fire, then the spark is practically extinguished.

 

so, the body of God (Krishna) glows with divine light and if a spark of the divine light gets caught up in the material illusion, then that spark of divine light becomes dis-integrated with the absolute spirit whole.

 

it is eternally a part and parcel of the supreme spirit whole, but in contact with material illusion the soul falls away and starts a long journey of evolution through development of consciousness starting from the lowest form of life and moving up and up through the process of evolution of the soul through the species.

[Guruvani]

 

So evolution of brain is directly proportional to the evolution of a soul ? May be we can come up with some scientific formula which can find a time period when a soul of micro-organism can become as evolved as ours.

 

basically yes, as the soul evolves it gets higher life forms with better brain for acquiring knowledge.

 

as far as a time period from micro-life to human, that has been calculated as millions of years, but I have never heard any specific number of millions of years.

 

if we don't have authoritative information from the Vedic shastra, then all we can do is make a guess.

but, we have been advised not to waste time with those sorts of scientific calculations but to use our energy in spiritual cultivation.

[omsadhak]

How can a person who has just left the highest institution established for education can again go to kindergarten ? May be as a teacher yes but not as a student.

Why would a soul that was already merged in to the divine light of god would again go to completely illusional world after a slight illusion caused by maya . And how can even slight material illusion reach at god's abode ?

[Guruvani]

 

How can a person who has just left the highest institution established for education can again go to kindergarten ? May be as a teacher yes but not as a student.

Why would a soul that was already merged in to the divine light of god would again go to completely illusional world after a slight illusion caused by maya . And how can even slight material illusion reach at god's abode ?

 

the realm of light known as the brahmajyoti is NOT the highest level of spiritual existence. It is in the fact the lowest level of spiritual existence and is not secure. if a soul within that realm of light gets exposed to material energy there is the chance that the soul can become attracted by the forms and sounds of the material illusion.

 

the light is not the end, it is the beginning.

from there many souls fall down into material illusion due to lack of higher spiritual knowledge of what is beyond the light.

 

just like light photons start out in the Sun, but many of them end up on Earth.

If that light photon leaves the Sun planet, then it travels in space until it contacts some planet and the energy gets transformed in many ways.

[omsadhak]

 

the realm of light known as the brahmajyoti is NOT the highest level of spiritual existence. It is in the fact the lowest level of spiritual existence and is not secure. if a soul within that realm of light gets exposed to material energy there is the chance that the soul can become attracted by the forms and sounds of the material illusion.

 

If that light photon leaves the Sun planet, then it travels in space until it contacts some planet and the energy gets transformed in many ways.

 

 

so, the body of God (Krishna) glows with divine light and if a spark of the divine light gets caught up in the material illusion, then that spark of divine light becomes dis-integrated with the absolute spirit whole..

 

So you mean to say that our souls never went above the spiritual existence of brahmajyoti and that's why we are here after countless births starting from the lowest form ?

[omsadhak]

 

when a soul becomes dis-integrated with the absolute whole it begins a long journey of evolution in consciousness.

 

after many millions of years of evolution of the soul, the soul acquires greater knowledge and experience and evolves through higher forms of life.

 

 

 

But then you said that soul was dis-integrated from the absolute whole , the source and not its brahmajyoti .

[Guruvani]

 

But then you said that soul was dis-integrated from the absolute whole , the source and not its brahmajyoti .

 

the absolute whole has three aspects.

brahman

paramatma

Bhagavan

 

all three aspects of the absolute whole.

[krsna]

 

How can a person who has just left the highest institution established for education can again go to kindergarten ? May be as a teacher yes but not as a student.

Why would a soul that was already merged in to the divine light of god would again go to completely illusional world after a slight illusion caused by maya . And how can even slight material illusion reach at god's abode ?

 

Beyond Reincarnation

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In 1976, Mike Robinson, from the London Broadcasting Company, interviewed Srila Prabhupada, the founder-acharya of ISKCON. Their conversation is a good introduction to the philosophy and aims of the Hare Krishna movement.

 

Mike Robinson: Can you tell me what you believe -- what the philosophy of the Hare Krishna movement is?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Krishna consciousness is not a question of belief; it is a science. The first step is to know the difference between a living body and a dead body. What is the difference? The difference is that when someone dies, the spirit soul, or the living force, leaves the body. And therefore the body is called “dead”. So, there are two things: one, this body; and the other, the living force within the body. We speak of the living force within the body. That is the difference between the science of Krishna consciousness, which is spiritual, and ordinary material science. As such, in the beginning it is very, very difficult for an ordinary man to appreciate our movement. One must first understand that he is a soul, or something other than his body.

Mike Robinson: And when will we understand that?

Srila Prabhupada: You can understand at any moment, but it requires a little intelligence. For example, as a child grows, he becomes a boy, the boy becomes a young man, the young man becomes an adult, and the adult becomes an old man. Throughout all this time, although his body is changing from a child to an old man, he still feels himself to be the same person, with the same identity. Just see: the body is changing, but the occupier of the body, the soul, is remaining the same. So we should logically conclude that when our present body dies, we get another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.

Mike Robinson: So when people die it is just the physical body that dies?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. That is explained very elaborately in the Bhagavad Gita (2.20). na jayate mriyate va kadacin . . .

Mike Robinson: Do you often quote references?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we quote many references. Krishna consciousness is a serious education, not an ordinary religion. {To a disciple} Find that verse in the Bhagavad-gita.

Disciple: “For the soul, there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying, and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain”.

Mike Robinson: Thank you very much for reading that. So can you explain to me just a bit more? If the soul is undying, does everybody’s soul go to be with God when they die?

Srila Prabhupada: Not necessarily. If one is qualified -- if he qualifies himself in this life to go back home, back to Godhead -- then he can go. If he does not qualify himself, then he gets another material body. And there are 8,400,000 different bodily forms. According to his desires and karma, the laws of nature give him a suitable body. It is just like when a man contracts some disease and then develops that disease. Is that difficult to understand?

Mike Robinson: It’s very difficult to understand all of it.

Srila Prabhupada: Supppose somebody has contracted smallpox. So, after seven days he develops the symptoms. What is that period called?

Mike Robinson: Incubation?

Srila Prabhupada: Incubation. So you cannot avoid it. If you have contracted some disease, it will develop, by nature’s law. Similarly, during this life you associate with various modes of material nature, and that association will decide what kind of body you are going to get in the next life. That is strictly under the laws of nature. Everyone is controlled by the laws of nature -- they’re completely dependent -- but out of ignorance people think that they are free. They’re not free; they’re imagining that they’re free, but they are completely under the laws of nature. So, your next birth will be decided according to your activities – sinful or pious, as the case may be.

Mike Robinson: Your Grace, could you go back over that just for a minute? You said that nobody is free. Are you saying that if we live a good life, we in some way determine a good future for ourselves?

Srila Prabhuapda: Yes.

Mike Robinson: So we are free to choose what we believe to be important? Religion is important, because if we believe in God and lead a good life…

Srila Prabhupada: It is not a question of belief. Do not bring in this question of belief. It is law. For instance, there is a government. You may believe or not believe, but if you break the law, you’ll be punished by the government. Similarly, whether you believe or don’t believe, there is a God. If you don’t believe in God and you independently do whatever you like, then you’ll be punished by the laws of nature.

Mike Robinson: I see. Does it matter what religion you believe? Would it matter if one wasn’t a devotee of Krishna?

Srila Prabhupada: It is not a question of religion. It is a question of science. You are a spiritual being, but because you are materially conditioned, you are under the laws of material nature. So you may believe in the Christian religion, and I may believe in the Hindu religion, but that does not mean that you are going to become an old man and I am not. We’re talking of the science of growing old. This is natural law. It is not that because you are Christian you are becoming old or because I am Hindu I am not becoming old. Everyone is becoming old. So similarly, all the laws of nature are applicable to everyone. Whether you believe this religion or that religion, it doesn’t matter.

Mike Robinson: So, your’e saying that there’s only one God controlling all of us?

Srila Prabhupada: There’s one God, and one nature’s law, and we are all under that nature’s law. We are controlled by the Supreme. So if we think that we are free or that we can do anything we like, that is our foolishness.

Mike Robinson: I see. Can you explain to me what difference it makes, being a member of the Hare Krishna movement?

Srila Prabhupada: The Hare Krishna movement is meant for those who are serious about understanding this science. There’s no question of our being some sectarian group. No. Anyone can join. Students in college can be admitted. You may be a Christian, you may be a Hindu, you may be a Muhammadan—it doesn’t matter. The Krishna consciousness movement admits anyone who wants to understand the science of God.

Mike Robinson: And what difference would it make to someone – being taught to be a Hare Krishna person?

Srila Prabhupada: His real education would begin. The first thing is to understand that you are a spirit soul. And because you are a spirit soul, you are changing your body. This is the ABC of spiritual understanding. So, when your body is finished, annihilated, you are not finished. You get another body, just as you may change your coat and shirt. If you come to see me tomorrow wearing a different shirt and a different coat, does that mean you are a different person? No. Similarly, each time you die, you change bodies, but you the spirit-soul within the body, remain the same. This point has to be understood; then one can make further progress in the science of Krishna consciousness.

Mike Robinson: I am beginnig to understand, but what I’m finding difficult is how this ties in with the large numbers of your people we see handing out Hare Krishna literature on Oxford Street.

Srila Prabhupada: This literature is meant to convince people about the need for spiritual life.

Mike Robinson: And you’re really not concerned whether or not they join the Hare Krishna movement?

Srila Prabhupada: It doesn’t matter. Our mission is to educate them. People are in ignorance; they are living in a fool’s paradise, thinking that when their body is finished, everything is finished. That is foolishness.

Mike Robinson: And you are basically just concerned to tell them that there is a spiritual dimension to life?

Srila Prabhupada: Our first concern is to tell you that you are not this body, that the body is your covering (your shirt and coat) and that within the body you are living.

Mike Robinson: Yes, I think I’ve got that now. If we could go on from there – you said that how you lived made a difference in our life after death, that there are natural laws that determine your next life. How does the process of transmigration work?

Srila Prabhupada: The process is very subtle. The spirit soul is invisible to our material eyes. It is atomic in size. After the destruction of the gross body, which is made up of the senses, blood, bone, fat, and so forth, the subtle body of mind, intelligence and ego goes on working. So at the time of death, this subtle body carries the small spirit soul to another gross body. The process is just like air carrying a fragrance. Nobody can see where this rose fragrance is coming from, but we know that it is being carried by the air. You cannot see how, but it is being done. Similarly, the process of transmigration of the soul is very subtle. According to the condition of the mind at the time of death, the minute spirit soul enters into the womb of a particular mother through the semen of a father, and then the soul develops a particular type of body given by the mother. It may be a human-being, it may be a cat, a dog, or anything.

Mike Robinson: Are you saying that we were something else before this life?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

Mike Robinson: And we keep coming back as something else the next time?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, because you are eternal. According to your work, you are simply changing bodies. Therefore, you should want to know how to stop this business, how you can remain in your original, spiritual body. That is Krishna consciousness.

[Guruvani]

 

So you mean to say that our souls never went above the spiritual existence of brahmajyoti and that's why we are here after countless births starting from the lowest form ?

 

yes.

there are some ISKCON Hare Krishna devotees who dispute this and they say that the souls fall from the spiritual planets, but that theory cannot be supported in any proper Vedic scripture.

 

they base their theory on some rather vague statements.

[krsna]

Mike Robinson: I can see that completely. But the Christian scriptures say …

 

Srila Prabhupada: Don’t bring in any scriptures; this is a commonsense topic. Try to understand. The animal is eating, you are eating; the animal is sleeping, you are sleeping; the animal is defending, you are defending; the animal is having sex, you are having sex; the animals have children, you have children; they have a living place, you have a living place. If the animal’s body is cut, there is blood; if your body is cut, there is blood. So, all these similarities are there. Now, why do you deny this one similarity, the presence of the soul? This is not logical. You have studied logic? In logic there is something called analogy. Analogy means drawing a conclusion by finding many points of similarity. If there are so many points of similarity between human beings and animals, why deny one similarity? That is not logic. That is not science.

 

Mike Robinson; But if you take that argument and use it the other

way…

 

Srila Prabhupada: There is no other way. If you are not arguing on the basis of logic, then you are not rational.

 

Mike Robinson: Yes, OK, but let’s start from another hypothesis. Suppose we assume that a human being has no soul…

 

Srila Prabhupada: Then you must explain the difference between a living body and a dead body. I have already explained this at the beginning. As soon as the living force, the soul, is gone from the body, even the most beautiful body has no value. No one cares for it; it’s thrown away. But now, if I touch your hair, there will be a fight. That is the distinction between a living body and a dead body. In a living body the soul is there, and in a dead body the soul is not there. As soon as the soul leaves the body, the body has no value. It is useless. This is very simple to understand, but even the biggest so-called scientists and philosophers are too dull-headed to understand it. Modern society is in a very abominable condition. There is no man with a real brain.

 

Mike Robinson: Are you referring to all the scientists who fail to understand the spiritual dimension in life?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Real science means full knowledge of everything, material and spiritual.

 

Mike Robinson: But you were a chemist in secular life, were you not?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, I was a chemist in my earlier life. But it doesn’t require any great intelligence to become a chemist. Any commonsense man can do it.

 

Mike Robinson: But presumably you think that material science is also important, even if today’s scientists are dull-headed.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Material science is important just so far. It is not all-important.

 

Mike Robinson: I see. Can I come back to a question I had from before? When we were differing a few minutes ago you were saying, “Don’t bring the scriptures in; just use common sense.” But what part do the scriptures play in your religion? How important are they?

 

Srila Prabhupada; Our religion is a science. When we say that a child grows into a boy, it is science. It is not religion. Every child grows into a boy. What is the question of religion? Every man dies. What is the question of religion? And when a man dies, the body becomes useless. What is the question of religion? It is science. Whether you’re Christian or Hindu or Muslim, when you die your body becomes useless. This is science. When your relative dies, you cannot say, “We are Christian; we believe he has not died.” No, he has died. Whether you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim he has died. So when we speak we speak on this basis: that the body is important only as long as the soul is in the body. Then the soul is not there, it is useless. This science is applicable to everyone, and we are trying to educate people on this basis.

Mike Robinson: But if I understand you correctly, you seem to be educating people on a purely scientific basis. Where does religion come into it at all?

Srila Prabhupada: Religion also means science. People have wrongly taken religion to meant faith – “I believe”. {To a disciple} Look up the word religion in the dictionary.

Disciple: Under religion, the dictionary says, “recognition of superhuman control or power, and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, and effecting such recognition with the proper mental attitude”.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Religion means learning how to obey the supreme controller. So, you may be Christian, and I may be Hindu; it doesn’t matter. We must both accept that there is a supreme controller: to understand the supreme controller and obey Him – that’s all. In the state, the good citizen is he who understands the government and obeys the laws of the government, and the bad citizen is the one who doesn’t care for the government. So, if you become a bad citizen by ignoring God’s government, then you are irreligious. And if you are a good citizen, then you are religious.

Mike Robinson: I see. Can you tell me what you believe to be the meaning of life: Why do we exist in the first place?

Srila Prabhupada: The meaning of life is to enjoy. But now you are on a false platform of life, and therefore you are suffering instead of enjoying. Everywhere we see the struggle for existence. Everyone is struggling, but what is their enjoyment in the end? They are simply suffering and dying. Therefore, although life means enjoyment, at the present moment your life is not enjoyment. But if you come to the real, spiritual platform of life, then you’ll enjoy.

Mike Robinson: Can you explain to me, finally, some of the stages you go through in spiritual life? What are the spiritual stages a new devotee of Krishna goes through?

Srila Prabhupada: The first stage is that you are inquisitive. “So”, you say, “what is this Krishna consciousness movement? Let me study it”. This is called sraddha, or faith. This is the beginning. Then, if you are serious you mix with those who are cultivating this knowledge. You try to understand how they are feeling. Then you’ll feel, “Why not become one of them?” And when you become one of them, then all your misgivings soon go away. You become more faithful, and then you get a real taste for Krishna consciousness. Why aren’t these boys and girls going to see the cinema? Why don’t they eat meat or go to the nightclub? Because their taste has changed. They hate all these things now. In this way, you make progress. First faith, then association with devotees, then removal of all misgivings, then firm faith, then taste, then God realisation, and then love of God, the perfection. That is first-class religion. Not some ritualistic ceremony of “I believe, you believe”. That is not religion. That is cheating. Real religion means to develop your love for God. That is the perfection of religion.

Mike Robinson: Thank you very much for talking with me. It’s been a pleasure talking to you.

Srila Prabhupada: Hare Krishna.

[krsna]

 

yes.

there are some ISKCON Hare Krishna devotees who dispute this and they say that the souls fall from the spiritual planets, but that theory cannot be supported in any proper Vedic scripture.

 

they base their theory on some rather vague statements.

 

These are the statements wherein they speculate, interpret and conjecture on the nature of KRSNA's abode , a place where time has no access.

[omsadhak]

So where did our soul start its journey from ? or is that journey a form of circle with no end and beginning ? And we are always the form of true self no matter whatever dress we wear . And even isn't this materialistic ignorance just another form of the lord's leela ?

 

Lord Ananta or Lord Sankarsana , Supreme Personality of Godhead is the predominating Deity of the material mode of ignorance as well as the false ego of all conditioned souls. When a conditioned living being thinks, "I am the enjoyer, and this world is meant to be enjoyed by me," this conception of life is dictated to him by Sankarsana.

(SB 5.25.1 - 3)

 

So wherever we are , we are always at the lord's abode as it exist in our heart in the form of true knowledge or ignorance .