Is there a conflict between the interests [focus] of ISKCON & Srila Bhaktisiddhanta??

[krsna]

Society Consciousness vs. Krsna Consciousness

 

 

by

 

Swami B.G. Narasingha

 

 

 

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Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada

 

 

 

Question: I read a recent article on the internet by a leading ISKCON sannyasi/GBC/guru wherein he says,

 

 

 

"We cannot even extend this family [iSKCON] to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. We cannot even take one step forward because the problem is if we put too much emphasis on Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, then we will miss out on our focus. We will lose the focus on ISKCON."

 

 

 

 

So my question is: Is there really a conflict between the interests [focus] of ISKCON and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta?

 

 

 

 

Answer: This is a 'yes' and 'no' answer to your question. And at a particular point one wonders who the 'our' in 'our focus' is that he is speaking of? Is it Prabhupada or is it the present leadership?

 

 

 

 

No, there is no conflict of interest or losing of focus if ISKCON gives emphasis to Bhaktisiddhanta, because in the opinion of ISKCON's founder Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, ISKCON is the movement of Bhaktisiddhanta.

 

 

 

 

On the other hand — yes, there will be a conflict of interest and a loss of focus if ISKCON gives emphasis to Bhaktisiddhanta because much of the present day ISKCON is a deviation from the original ISKCON in numerous ways. The fact that thousands of devotees have left ISKCON and joined other bona-fide branches of the Gaudiya Matha, alone should bear testimony to this.

 

 

 

 

In the formative years of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada wrote as follows:

 

 

 

 

"On the Disappearance Day of my Guru Maharaja, you may hold a meeting to discuss his activities and offer respect to his memory. Practically, this movement is his because it is under his order that I have come to your country." (Letter to Upendra, December 2nd 1968)

 

 

 

 

"This movement was started by Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and then it was entrusted to Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. Then we are trying to serve his word, and many of my Godbrothers, they are also..." (Lecture, Los Angeles Jan 13th 1969)

 

 

 

 

"Practically there is no credit for me, if there is any credit it goes to my Spiritual Master, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada, who is helping me by sending so many good souls like you in this movement. Whatever is being done, it is due to His Divine Grace only. So my business is just to carry out His order." (Letter to Dayananda, 26th March 1969)

 

 

 

 

"So I am pet dog of my Guru Maharaja, and you have helped him so nicely to push on the message of Lord Krsna or Krsna Consciousness Movement, and I am very much pleased by your serious and sincere attitude, so you will get all the full blessings of my Guru Maharaja, that you may know for certain. (Letter to George Harrison, Jan 4th 1973)

 

 

 

 

 

The above quotes from Srila Prabhupada clearly demonstrate a connection and a non-difference between Srila Prabhupada's movement and the movement of Bhaktivinoda and Bhaktisiddhanta. They are in harmony, not in contrast.

 

 

 

 

The person you have quoted, however, didn't join ISKCON until a few months before Prabhupada's disappearance and therefore had no real experience of what Prabhupada's mood was in establishing ISKCON. It should also be remembered that this is the same person that made a movie about Srila Prabhupada in which a lightning flash is seen to emanate from Prabhupada's forehead, which repelled the personality of Kali-yuga. Such portrayals of Srila Prabhupada [as a Bollywood sadhu] by a senior disciple, does cause one to wonder.

 

 

 

In those early years [into the 1970's] it was also an established daily practice to recite or sing the pranam-mantras to Bhaktisiddhanta in all ISKCON temples. Although we were not permitted at that time to read the books of Bhaktisiddhanta, still it was quite clear in everyone's mind that Bhaktisiddhanta was our parama-guru and that what Srila Prabhupada was doing, was carrying out Bhaktisiddhanta's orders and fulfilling his desires. Thus there should be no misunderstanding in anyone's mind that the interests of Bhaktisiddhanta and those of ISKCON are different. They are synonymous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In 1976 Srila Prabhupada instructed that the logo of the Gaudiya Matha [originally designed by Bhaktisiddhanta] be painted on either side of the gate at ISKCON's world headquarters in Mayapur. That logo remains there to this day although hardly anyone pays attention to its significance or meaning — both of which seem quite clear — ISKCON is non-different from the movement established by Bhaktisiddhanta under the name of Gaudiya Matha.

 

 

In his final days before his departure Srila Prabhupada called for his godbrothers and sent a message to all that "the war is over" and he compelled everyone to work together and in harmony to spread Krsna consciousness.

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada also established the Bhaktivedanta Charitable Trust in 1977 for the purpose of working in harmony with the Gaudiya Matha institutions of his godbrothers. Sripada Bhakti Dayita Madhava Maharaja of Sri Caitanya Gaudiya Matha was made the first president of the trust and among the first duties of the trust was the work of financing the completion [construction] of Srila Sridhara Maharaja's Matha in Navadvipa.

 

 

 

 

The problem lies not in how to accommodate Bhaktisiddhanta in ISKCON but in how to keep ISKCON focused on Krsna consciousness and not on Society consciousness. These issues [society consciousness vs Krsna consciousness], have a tendency to come into sharp contrast with one another.

 

 

 

 

Krsna Consciousness means the absolute consideration and society consciousness means the relative consideration. The society is established for the purpose of Krsna Consciousness [the absolute consideration] and not the other way around.

 

 

 

 

When the society ceases to perform its function as a representative of the Absolute and functions only for its own well being, then such a society is no longer transcendental. It simply becomes another mundane society. Bhaktisiddhanta has summed it up in this way as follows:

 

 

 

 

"The idea of an organized church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dikes and the dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate a desire on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona-fide spiritual teacher." [Excerpted from the essay 'Putana' printed in the January 1932 edition of The Harmonist]

 

 

 

 

Could the above quote apply to ISKCON? If one pays careful attention to what is happening, then one easily comes to the conclusion that many ISKCON leaders do not want to give any quarter to the words of Bhaktisiddhanta, because if they do then the hoax is exposed and the evidence suggests that the movement established by Srila Prabhupada has been hoodwinked by pseudo-spiritualists and led astray.

 

 

 

 

In the opinion of some of the editors of Krsna Talk, the title of this article, 'Society Consciousness vs. Krsna Consciousness' is antiquated because in their opinion the battle for ISKCON is already lost — it has become a society for itself and by itself i.e. an international society for society conscious [iSSCON].

 

 

 

 

The path of society consciousness vs. God consciousness that ISKCON has taken, wherein society consciousness prevails, smacks of that of the Christian church after the Council of Nicea. Therein the church developed not along the lines of spiritual wisdom but along the lines of dollars, diplomacy and despotism. One will be hard pressed to show us the difference between what the church became and what ISKCON is becoming.

 

 

 

 

 

Furthermore, if one reflects on ISKCON and listens closely to Srila Prabhupada one will discover that in Prabhupada's own words the only addition that he made to the movement of Bhaktisiddhanta was that he [Prabhupada] as a sannyasi preformed the marriage ceremony for his young disciples. Otherwise, Srila Prabhupada said that all other aspects of his movement were already established by Bhaktisiddhanta. That means that the Deity worship, the formation of a GBC, the establishment of the temple president as a lifetime commitment, decentralization, preaching in foreign countries, printing and distributing books, hari-nama sankirtana, diorama exhibitions, film projects, prasadam distribution, printing and distributing journals, the establishment of daivi-varnasrama, the acceptance of sannyasa as a Vaisnava anga —literally everything ISKCON does or has, was established by Bhaktisiddhanta and given to Srila Prabhupada to form ISKCON. So how could anyone in their right mind think that the mood of Bhaktisiddhanta could be a negative influence in a progressive ISKCON?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proof of the weakened position of present day ISKCON for having neglected the instructions and desires of Bhaktisiddhanta is evident in their inability to defend the parampara, Srila Prabhupada and even ISKCON itself from the attacks of the anti-party, caste gosvamis, sahajiyas, Madhva-ugravadis and some aggressive Gaudiya Vaishnava preachers. In all these cases ISKCON leaders have turned to devotees outside of ISKCON for help, guidance and relief. Had they included Bhaktisiddhanta as at least a member of the ISKCON family, then they might have been able to take care of themselves and not had to call others to the rescue.

 

 

 

 

In the view of the ISKCON neo-cons [new-conservatives] they can be comfortable only if all branches of the Gaudiya sampradaya [including Bhaktisiddhanta] come under their control. They see themselves as the trunk of the tree and have even relegated Bhaktisiddhanta to that of a sub-branch. Such is not a very humble view of one's self. Of course the jingoism is that ISKCON is Prabhupada's movement, he was better than anyone else and nothing has changed. In reality however everything in ISKCON has changed. Practically nothing is the same — particularly the laws of ISKCON that in Prabhupada's time were listed by him on one page as eight [see appendix]. Now the ISKCON law book consumes nearly 1,000 pages. What to speak of the laws, the Bhagavad-gita As It Is and other books of Srila Prabhupada aren't even the same and controversy in ISKCON continues over that issue.

 

 

 

 

ISKCON wants everything under their control, to silence the voices of dissent and crush any opposing views — everything under the standards of 'Prabhupada,' that they themselves create. This begins to sound like a draconian cult or worse still, Christianity. And as Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said — party spirit [society consciousness] is the enemy of truth.

 

 

 

 

"Party-spirit - that great enemy of truth - will always baffle the attempt of the inquirer who tries to gather truth from religious works of his nation, and will make him believe that absolute truth is nowhere except in his old religious book." [The Bhagavata Speech by Bhaktivinoda Thakura]

 

 

 

 

But if ISKCON is so sincere, then why is there difficulty in coming under Bhaktisiddhanta, when even Prabhupada took shelter at his lotus feet? This is not to suggest that ISKCON join Gaudiya Matha or that Gaudiya Matha join ISKCON — but that the harmony among Gaudiya Vaisnavas will be drawn from acknowledging the common factor and grandfather of all, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta.

 

 

 

 

What is actually happening is that step by step, slowly but surely, some of ISKCON's leaders are pulling ISKCON away from the Gaudiya sampradaya to becoming an apa-sampradaya – a shadow of the parampara.

 

 

 

 

APPENDIX

Click for Full Size

 

 

 

 

 

1] All initiated devotees must attend morning and evening classes.

2] Must not be addicted to any kind of intoxicants including coffee, tea and cigarettes.

3] They are forbidden to have illicit sex connections.

4] Must be strictly vegetarian.

5] Should not extensively mix with non-devotees.

6] Should not eat foodstuff cooked by non-devotees.

7] Should not waste time in idle talks nor engage himself in frivolous sports.

8] Should always chant and sing the Lord's holy names:

 

 

 

 

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

 

 

 

Thank you,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Acharya

 

 

 

 

November 25, 1966

 

 

 

 

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[Guruvani]

Srila Prabhupada's mission was given to him by Srila Saraswati Thakur.

He instructed Srila Prabhupada to preach to the English speaking people and to publish books on Krishna consciousness for the English speaking world.

 

Srila Prabhupada's mission was NOT to be a branch or a carbon copy of the Gaudiya Math. He was not instructed by his guru that his mission was to create a branch of the Gaudiya Math in the western world.

 

Just as Srila Saraswati Thakur was unique in his mission and NOT a carbon copy of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, Srila Prabhupada was never meant to be a carbon copy of Srila Saraswati Thakur nor was ISKCON ever meant to be a carbon copy of the Gaudiya Math.

 

I totally agree that the disciples of Srila Prabhupada should not be very concerned with Srila Saraswati Thakur over and above what Srila Prabhupada gave in regards to his teachings.

 

We should get Srila Saraswati Thakur ONLY through Srila Prabhupada and NOT otherwise - not from anyone else. (well, except Sridhar Maharaja).

 

There is too much of this going around Srila Prabhupada to try and understand the teachings of Srila Saraswati Thakur. I am not totally innocent of this myself, but as least I admit that it is wrong and that I should never have done that.

 

ISKCON doesn't need to know anything more about Srila Saraswati Thakur than what Srila Prabhupada gave in his books and his teachings.

 

Sometimes devotees even try to go against what Srila Prabhupada has given by referencing something in the writings of Srila Saraswati Thakur.

This kind of attitude is wrong.

It is bad.

It is bogus.

It is foolish.

 

Disciples of Srila Prabhupada got everything they needed for spiritual life from Srila Prabhupada.

 

There is no use in trying to go around Srila Prabhupada and understand Srila Saraswati Thakur separately from what Srila Prabhupada has given.

 

The western world needs to keep focused on Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Saraswati Thakur had a different mission and a different situation.

 

Mahaprabhu personally sent Srila Prabhupada to bring Krishna consciousness to the peoples of the western world.

 

Woe to the fools who go against Srila Prabhupada and preach against what Srila Prabhupada has done and what he has given.

 

Srila Prabhupada is a personal representative of Lord Nityananda.

If you offend Srila Prabhupada your spiritual life is a hoax, not matter how great you appear from external appearances.

 

Devotees who haven't even't realized what Srila Prabhuapda has given are trying to go around Srila Prabhupada directly to Srila Saraswati Thakur, but it will never really help them because they haven't even been able to realize the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, so what use is there for them to approach Srila Saraswati Thakur.

 

These people are more concerned with prestige, image and position than they are in realizing Krishna consciouness. They became so dependent on the organizations that for them profile and image was more important than actually realizing Krishna.

 

They become career gurus and dependents on the institution, so for them profile and image is more important than actually realizing Krishna.

 

They sometimes use Srila Saraswati Thakur as a device for their own ambitions, but in the end they just end up as pretenders and profilers who make their living as Hare Krishna gurus.

 

some of these career gurus are very prestigious and popular.

but, they unfortunately have cheated themselves out of the nectar.

[Guruvani]

 

 

They become career gurus and dependents on the institution, so for them profile and image is more important than actually realizing Krishna.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

We should get Srila Saraswati Thakur ONLY through Srila Prabhupada and NOT otherwise - not from anyone else. (well, except Sridhar Maharaja).

 

ISKCON doesn't need to know anything more about Srila Saraswati Thakur than what Srila Prabhupada gave in his books and his teachings.

 

Big contradiction in the same post. Usually we see this with Guruvani in different posts.

 

 

We should get Srila Saraswati Thakur ONLY through Srila Prabhupada and NOT otherwise - not from anyone else. (well, except Sridhar Maharaja).

 

But this was not Sridhar Maharaja's opinion:

 

We are slaves of the truth. We are beggars for the pure current of truth that is constantly flowing: the fresh current. We are not charmed by any formality. I will bow down my head wherever I find the river of nectar coming down to me. When one is conscious that the Absolute Truth is descending to him from the highest domain, he will think, "I must surrender myself here."

 

 

They become career gurus and dependents on the institution, so for them profile and image is more important than actually realizing Krishna.

 

They sometimes use Srila Saraswati Thakur as a device for their own ambitions, but in the end they just end up as pretenders and profilers who make their living as Hare Krishna gurus.

 

some of these career gurus are very prestigious and popular.

but, they unfortunately have cheated themselves out of the nectar.

True but not really relevant. When in doubt resort to guru bashing.

[Vedesu]

 

All initiated devotees must attend morning and evening classes.

But I thought one could get the exact same association from simply reading the books. Perhaps even better, since we know that Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee and is present in his books, whereas the speaker of the class may or may not be on the same level. Personal association (vapuh) isn't so important. Well, it is in a way, but you can get that personal association simply by reading Srila Prabhupada's books. Hold your own private classes in the convenience of your own home (or your solitary cave in the Himalayas) simply by reading the books. Read them aloud both in the morning and in the evening. Instruction fulfilled.

 

Next case.

[Guest guest]

I had the same questions.

[Guruvani]

 

Big contradiction in the same post. Usually we see this with Guruvani in different posts.

 

 

 

But this was not Sridhar Maharaja's opinion:

 

 

 

True but not really relevant. When in doubt resort to guru bashing.

you missed the point.

we should get Srila Saraswati Thakur from those that have understood him, not by independently reading his writings and thinking we can understand.

 

If I accept Sridhar Maharaja as siksha guru, then I can understand something about Srila Saraswati Thakur from him, but not by reading the writings of Saraswati Thakur and using his words to overturn the instructions of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Shastra gives me the right to accept as many siksha gurus as I like.

 

Nobody has the right to stop me.

 

So, I learn about Srila Saraswati Thakur from those disciples who knew Him, not from reading his writings independently and using that to ignore the instructions of Srila Prabhupada.

 

so, there is no contradiction.

 

Sridhar Maharaja never advocated that we could neglect the instructions of our own spiritual master by resorting to the teachings of previous acharyas.

He never said that if we don't like what our spiritual master has ordered us to do that we can go around him and bow down to some previous acharya and make up our own plan.

[krsna]

 

you missed the point.

we should get Srila Saraswati Thakur from those that have understood him, not by independently reading his writings and thinking we can understand.

 

If I accept Sridhar Maharaja as siksha guru, then I can understand something about Srila Saraswati Thakur from him, but not by reading the writings of Saraswati Thakur and using his words to overturn the instructions of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Shastra gives me the right to accept as many siksha gurus as I like.

 

Nobody has the right to stop me.

 

So, I learn about Srila Saraswati Thakur from those disciples who knew Him, not from reading his writings independently and using that to ignore the instructions of Srila Prabhupada.

 

so, there is no contradiction.

 

Sridhar Maharaja never advocated that we could neglect the instructions of our own spiritual master by resorting to the teachings of previous acharyas.

He never said that if we don't like what our spiritual master has ordered us to do that we can go around him and bow down to some previous acharya and make up our own plan.

 

An interesting post which has some relevent points:

 

I have no difficulty in accepting the exalted spirituality of Srila Sridhara Maharaja, and even taking siksa from him from time to time. However I ALSO will not be restric-ted in the service of my eternal spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada.

The wording of your reply to Bhakta

Ray seemed to imply that Sridhara Maharaja was on the same or higher level of transcendental realization

as/than that of Srila Prabhupada. I

would like to draw your attention to one of Srila Prabhupada's quota-tions that you supplied: "...I know

he is a pure Vaisnava, a pure devotee, and I wanted to associate with him and I tried to help him also." These words, among other things, state that Srila Sridhara Maharaja required some spiritual assistance and that Srila Prabhu-

pada provided that assistance. Therefore it is also true that Srila Prabhupada is the siksa-guru of Sridhara Maharaja. I have no problem with any words of Srila Prabhupada that you posted, but unlike yourself, I also have no problem with Srila Prabhupada's limpidly unambiguous statement of fact to Rupanuga Prabhu on 74/4/28 that Sridhara Maharaja disobeyed the order of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada by supporting an unqualified person as Acarya. This does not mean that Sridhara Maharaja was not on some level of

"pure Vaisnava"; it means that he somehow or other temporarily made a

mistake. It does mean, however, that he was not on the very highest

level of "pure Vaisnava", the level

that Srila Prabhupada was on.

 

According to the Bhakti-rasamrta-

sindhu, there are three classes of uttama-bhagavata (or siddha-

mahapurusa). The highest is the

bhagavat-parsada-deha-prapta, the pure soul who is actually situated in his adhyatmika siddha-deha as a member of Sri Krsna's entourage in the spiritual world. The middling is the nirdhuta-kasaya, the pure soul all of whose vasanas and samskaras have been shaken/cast/

burned away by bhakti-yoga. The lowest is the murchita-kasaya, the pure soul for whom yet remain some vasanas and samskaras related to sattva-guna, but which are dormant due to the influence of bhakti-yoga. It is not an offence to tell the truth. Sridhara Maharaja's error was due to some sattvika-type

vasana or samskara aroused by the turbulence of that difficult and fractious period. Therefore

he belongs to the lowest level of uttama-bhagavata. Nevertheless, as Srila Prabhupada said, he is surely

of the uttama-bhagavata category.

 

The main point is this: As history

also attests, Srila Prabhupada was/

is on the highest level of uttama-

bhagavata, the bhagavat-parsada-

deha-prapta (that is why he is appropriately appellated as 'Srila

Prabhupada') and being adhiyukta

accordingly he never at any time deviated from the order of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada, the predecessor

Sampradaya Acarya who was/is also on the highest level of uttama-

bhagavata.

 

There is certainly nothing wrong

with some disciples of Srila Prabhupada taking valuable siksa from Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maha-

raja, for Srila Prabhupada did authorize this in the case of

PHILOSOPHICAL doubts. In Srimad

Bhagavatam 11.9.31, taking siksa from more than one guru is recom-

mended. It is true that, as you are

wont to state, guru is one. But as

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught

(acintya-bhedabheda-tattva), there is also difference in guru-tattva. In terms of transcendental realiza-

tion, some are on higher levels than others, though all are able to instruct in the same direction,

for the benefit of those who have sraddha.

 

Therefore, it is misleading and one-sided to state that Sridhara Maharaja was Srila Prabhupada's siksa-guru, and just leave it at that (even if Srila Prabhupada described him as such). To do so is to demonstrate that one is still under the influence of sattva-guna.

<CENTER></CENTER>

 

 

Posted by Mahasrngha Dasa @ 01/31/2006

 

[Guruvani]

 

 

Therefore, it is misleading and one-sided to state that Sridhara Maharaja was Srila Prabhupada's siksa-guru, and just leave it at that (even if Srila Prabhupada described him as such). To do so is to demonstrate that one is still under the influence of sattva-guna.

<center></center>

 

 

Posted by Mahasrngha Dasa @ 01/31/2006

 

 

 

Well, Mahasrngha is obviously turning his back on this well known letter that Srila Prabhupada wrote to one of his senior disciples.

 

 

"Because you are my disciple, and I think, a sincere soul, it is my duty to refer you to someone who is competent to act as a Siksha Guru. For spiritual advancement of life, we must go to someone who is actually practicing spiritual life. So, if you are actually serious to take instructions from a Siksha Guru, I can refer you to the one who is the most highly competent of all my godbrothers. This is B.R. Sridhar Maharaj, whom I consider to be even my Siksha Guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have by his association. So, if you are serious about the advancement of your spiritual life, I will advise you to go to Sridhar Maharaj. It will be very good for your spiritual benefit, and I will feel that you are safe. When I was in India with the others, we lived with Sridhar Maharaj. You can also make arrangements for your other Godbrothers to go there in the future. So, live peacefully with Sridhar Maharaj, and thereby you will be spiritually enlightened."

 

So, this letter is not a forgery or a fraud and Srila Prabhupada was not being coerced by anyone to say that he considered Sridhar Maharaja as his siksha guru.

 

Here is another very intimate look into the relationship of Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

 

"Sridhar Maharaj lived in my house for many years, so naturally, we had very intimate talks and he was my good advisor. I took his advices, instructions, very seriously because from the very beginning I know that he is a pure Vaishnava, a pure devotee, and I wanted to associate with him and tried to help him also. Our relationship is very intimate."

[Guest guest]

LOL Vedesu prabhu!

 

Now lets watch the ritviks and book-vadis/guru-bashers try to wriggle out of this one!

 

 

But I thought one could get the exact same association from simply reading the books. Perhaps even better, since we know that Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee and is present in his books, whereas the speaker of the class may or may not be on the same level. Personal association (vapuh) isn't so important. Well, it is in a way, but you can get that personal association simply by reading Srila Prabhupada's books. Hold your own private classes in the convenience of your own home (or your solitary cave in the Himalayas) simply by reading the books. Read them aloud both in the morning and in the evening. Instruction fulfilled.

 

Next case.

[Laulyam]

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TEXT 53

bhattera hrdaye drdha abhimana jani'

bhangi kari' mahaprabhu kahe eta vani

SYNONYMS

bhattera hrdaye--in the heart of Vallabha Bhatta; drdha--fixed; abhimana--pride; jani'--understanding; bhangi kari'--making a hint; mahaprabhu--Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu; kahe--spoke; eta vani--these words.

TRANSLATION

Knowing that Vallabha Bhatta's heart was full of pride, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu spoke these words, hinting at how one can learn about devotional service.

PURPORT

Vallabha Bhatta was greatly proud of his knowledge in devotional service, and therefore he wanted to speak about Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu without understanding the Lord's position. The Lord therefore hinted in many ways that if Vallabha Bhatta wanted to know what devotional service actually is, he would have to learn from all the devotees He mentioned, beginning with Advaita Acarya, Lord Nityananda, Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya and Ramananda Raya. As Svarupa Damodara has said, if one wants to learn the meaning of Srimad-Bhagavatam, one must take lessons from a realized soul. One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books. One must become a servant of a Vaisnava. As Narottama dasa Thakura has confirmed, chadiya vaisnava-seva nistara payeche keba: one cannot be in a transcendental position unless one very faithfully serves a pure Vaisnava. One must accept a Vaisnava guru (adau gurv-asrayam), and then by questions and answers one should gradually learn what pure devotional service to Krsna is. That is called the parampara system.

 

Adi-lila Ch.1

 

TEXT 58

jive saksat nahi tate guru caittya-rupe

siksa-guru haya krsna-mahanta-svarupe

SYNONYMS

jive--by the living entity; saksat--direct experience; nahi--there is not; tate--therefore; guru--the spiritual master; caittya-rupe--in the form of the Supersoul; siksa-guru--the spiritual master who instructs; haya--appears; krsna--Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; mahanta--the topmost devotee; sva-rupe--in the form of.

TRANSLATION

Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul, He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a spiritual master is none other than Krsna Himself.

PURPORT

It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krsna, who is seated as the spiritual master within the heart of the living entity.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

LOL Vedesu prabhu!

 

Now lets watch the ritviks and book-vadis/guru-bashers try to wriggle out of this one!

Labels prove nothing.

Call it what you like but this from Prabhupada

 

Adi 1.35

The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER'S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.

 

77-03-12 Letter: Rajarsi

PERSONAL SERVICE TO THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MEANS TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS. My request is the same for everyone: that they follow strictly the regulative principles and chant at least sixteen rounds daily. And as much time as they are able should be devoted for preaching according to our books.

 

Try to wiggle out of that .

[Guest guest]

Sure, here!-

 

Crystal clear words from Srila Prabhupada himself. No shadow of doubt now remains. Srila Prabhupada expects his disciples to become Guru and they're obeying his order. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

 

"I wish that, in my absence, all my disciples become the bona fide spiritual master."

" . . . just like I have got my disciples, so, in the future, these many disciples may have many branches of disciplic succession . . ."

Every student is expected to become acharya . . . I have given you sannyasa with the great hope, that, in my absence, you will preach the cult."

 

 

Labels prove nothing.

Call it what you like but this from Prabhupada

 

Adi 1.35

The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER'S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.

 

77-03-12 Letter: Rajarsi

PERSONAL SERVICE TO THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MEANS TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS. My request is the same for everyone: that they follow strictly the regulative principles and chant at least sixteen rounds daily. And as much time as they are able should be devoted for preaching according to our books.

 

Try to wiggle out of that .

[Guest guest]

 

Sure, here!-

 

Crystal clear words from Srila Prabhupada himself. No shadow of doubt now remains. Srila Prabhupada expects his disciples to become Guru and they're obeying his order. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

 

"I wish that, in my absence, all my disciples become the bona fide spiritual master."

" . . . just like I have got my disciples, so, in the future, these many disciples may have many branches of disciplic succession . . ."

Every student is expected to become acharya . . . I have given you sannyasa with the great hope, that, in my absence, you will preach the cult."

The operative terms are 'expected' and 'may become'.

No guarantee.

[Guest guest]

Please read again. There is no 'may' or 'expected' in the first statement.

 

 

The operative terms are 'expected' and 'may become'.

No guarantee.

[Guest guest]

 

Please read again. There is no 'may' or 'expected' in the first statement.

It expresses a desire - not a necessary outcome.

[Guest guest]

"The GBC does not look after spiritual life. That is the defect. All of our students will have to become guru, but they are not qualified. That is the difficulty."

 

Letter (75-11-28/Nov. 10, 1975)

"One who assumes the dress and position of an acharya (and) who speaks against the conclusion of the Srimad Bhagavatam and other scriptures . . . certainly goes to hell for countless lifetimes along with his disciples and whoever else hears such non-devotional talks."

 

Hari-bhakti-vilasa 1.101

[krsna]

 

"The GBC does not look after spiritual life. That is the defect. All of our students will have to become guru, but they are not qualified. That is the difficulty."

 

Letter (75-11-28/Nov. 10, 1975)

"One who assumes the dress and position of an acharya (and) who speaks against the conclusion of the Srimad Bhagavatam and other scriptures . . . certainly goes to hell for countless lifetimes along with his disciples and whoever else hears such non-devotional talks."

 

Hari-bhakti-vilasa 1.101

 

Here's an interesting article with relevent observations on our ISKCON Movement:

 

On opinions, dissension and ISKCON schisms

 

 

by Kripa Moya Dasa

 

 

I wrote this after witnessing a long and drawn out internet exchange between devotees on doctrinal issues which, after a period of politeness, descended into self-righteous indignation and the insidious web behaviour of ‘flaming.’

Opinions, they say, are like belly-buttons. Everybody’s got one. You’d expect Vaishnavas to be articulate and forthright in their opinions wouldn’t you? What you might not expect is just how many different opinions there can be – from people who are all supposed to be following the same religion.

And every one of them you talk to will insist that his particular shade of understanding – or that of his guru – is the definitive conclusion of a particular matter and therefore not an opinion but TRUTH. If only being so convinced about something made it true; our existence in the universe would be a much easier thing. And running a religious movement would be a doddle.

Solipsists have it easy by comparison. They believe that there is only one conscious observer in the universe, and that’s them. All else is illusion. Even relationships with their nearest and dearest are nothing but mental projections on the void. They never argue with anyone, they don’t have to. The other person doesn’t exist. It’s a comforting philosophy I suppose, but they’ll never have a good football team. And they will probably never have a movement of the size and diversity of our ISKCON.

Religions seem to be OK in the beginning when there’s just the founder and a few listeners. One prophet or saint speaking on a mountain, a riverbank, or under a tree. Only one opinion, with no disputes or disagreements – easy. Its when there’s a few followers that the problems start. And when followers actually try to work together to achieve something, that’s the time to watch out. With philosophy, religion and politics, as everyone who’s ever had a dinner party knows, it’s so easy for feelings to escalate and to have heated conversations and disputes. And we certainly have a lot of philosophy, religion and politics in ISKCON.

Are we alone in this? Is ISKCON the only organisation where deeply held opinions over relatively minor points threaten to open up wide schisms? Of course not. Everybody’s at it. This is the Age of Quarrel after all, so feeling that you are right and the other guy is definitely wrong comes as second nature.

But isn’t ISKCON meant to be above all that stuff? Isn’t this the revolutionary, peaceful movement meant to spiritualise human society and rise above the dissension of Kali Yuga? Oh yes. And it would be so easy to do if arguing – and having the satisfaction of being right – wasn’t so damned tempting.

What do devotees mainly disagree about? The same things as other religions do: Theology, Liturgy, and Governance. If you study religious movements and their growth, gradual splintering, weakening and extinction, you’ll find they argued over these three things. These three subjects have fuelled the fires of controversy within each of the religions and kept them weakened for centuries. And if we’re not careful it will keep the Vaishnavas going for many more.

Theology – Who are we? What do we believe? Who is God? How do we interpret scripture? How is God’s grace attained? Who is a saint? How do they behave?

Liturgy – How do we worship? What books do we read? Whose songs should we sing? What language shall we use in our rituals? What daily practises will the believers perform and to what level of discipline? How do we publicly recognise membership of our religion and at what stage?

Governance – Who settles disputes on doctrinal issues? How and when do we assemble? How do we organise ourselves? Who leads us? How are leaders appointed? Who appoints them and how often? Who has a voice? Where does power reside? Who decides how money is apportioned?

Unity on these issues helped keep some religions relatively strong, whereas intractable disagreements rendered them weak or useless. Christianity, the fruit of just one preacher and a few early disciples two thousand years ago, has become a staggering 104 main denominations and 33,839 organisations, the majority of which have no working relationship with each other.*

With reference to this tendency for even well-intentioned human beings to be so much less than divine, and in light of his spiritual master’s mission dividing into factions, Srila Prabhupada said about ISKCON: “I am always afraid of this crack.”

It is, naturally, in everyone’s interest to keep the mission of Srila Prabhupada, ISKCON, as one international movement. Certainly it is part of his disciples’ sacred duty to maintain what he gave us. He wanted it. In 1976 he wrote a letter reminding his disciples of the story of the king who had many sons. He asked them to break single twigs, and then asked them to try to break a bunch of twigs. By this he indicated that after his death, if the sons stayed together the kingdom would not be broken. ‘United we stand, divided we fall.’

The founder of the Hare Krishna movement knew that his organisation would grow, and that it would ultimately attract millions of people of all persuasions and political shades. And he prayed that his most intelligent followers would not fall into dissent and party spirit, but act as a force for harmony and unity.

Otherwise, historians of the future will note that Srila Prabhupada was a great saint whose movement later fractured into schisms. He was afraid of that crack and so must we be. The solution? Tolerance. Always tolerance. And mutual understanding, negotiation, and compromise. Not over-reacting to differences of opinion but seeing how we can negotiate to an equitable solution whereby our most important service to our spiritual master gets done - and gets done together. Of course, we must not under-react either. There must be discipline within a movement such as ours, as well as organisation and intelligence.

ISKCON is already an extremely broad church. We can celebrate our diversity only if we are acting in Sattva-guna. The influence of Raja-guna will cause us to identify with party spirit and to polarise us into rigid political camps. And Tama-guna will propel us into acrimonious campaigning against each other. We have a choice.

* Figures from World Christian Encyclopaedia

[Laulyam]

TEXT 7

sri-bhagavan uvaca

bhakti-yogo bahu-vidho

margair bhamini bhavyate

svabhava-guna-margena

pumsam bhavo vibhidyate

SYNONYMS

sri-bhagavan uvaca--the Personality of Godhead replied; bhakti-yogah--devotional service; bahu-vidhah--multifarious; margaih--with paths; bhamini--O noble lady; bhavyate--is manifest; svabhava--nature; guna--qualities; margena--in terms of behavior; pumsam--of the executors; bhavah--the appearance; vibhidyate--is divided.

TRANSLATION

Lord Kapila, the Personality of Godhead, replied: O noble lady, there are multifarious paths of devotional service in terms of the different qualities of the executor.

PURPORT

Pure devotional service in Krsna consciousness is one because in pure devotional service there is no demand from the devotee to be fulfilled by the Lord. But generally people take to devotional service with a purpose. As stated in Bhagavad-gita, people who are not purified take to devotional service with four purposes. A person who is distressed because of material conditions becomes a devotee of the Lord and approaches the Lord for mitigation of his distress. A person in need of money approaches the Lord to ask for some improvement in his monetary condition. Others, who are not in distress or in need of monetary assistance but are seeking knowledge in order to understand the Absolute Truth, also take to devotional service, and they inquire into the nature of the Supreme Lord. This is very nicely described in Bhagavad-gita (7.16). Actually the path of devotional service is one without a second, but according to the devotees' condition, devotional service appears in multifarious varieties, as will be nicely explained in the following verses.

TEXT 8

abhisandhaya yo himsam

dambham matsaryam eva va

samrambhi bhinna-drg bhavam

mayi kuryat sa tamasah

SYNONYMS

abhisandhaya--having in view; yah--he who; himsam--violence; dambham--pride; matsaryam--envy; eva--indeed; va--or; samrambhi--angry; bhinna--separate; drk--whose vision; bhavam--devotional service; mayi--to Me; kuryat--may do; sah--he; tamasah--in the mode of ignorance.

TRANSLATION

Devotional service executed by a person who is envious, proud, violent and angry, and who is a separatist, is considered to be in the mode of darkness.

PURPORT

It has already been stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, First Canto, Second Chapter, that the highest, most glorious religion is the attainment of causeless, unmotivated devotional service. In pure devotional service, the only motive should be to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is not actually a motive; that is the pure condition of the living entity. In the conditioned stage, when one engages in devotional service, he should follow the instruction of the bona fide spiritual master in full surrender. The spiritual master is the manifested representation of the Supreme Lord because he receives and presents the instructions of the Lord, as they are, by disciplic succession. It is described in Bhagavad-gita that the teachings therein should be received by disciplic succession, otherwise there is adulteration. To act under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master with a motive to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead is pure devotional service. But if one has a motive for personal sense gratification, his devotional service is manifested differently. Such a man may be violent, proud, envious and angry, and his interests are separate from the Lord's.

One who approaches the Supreme Lord to render devotional service, but who is proud of his personality, envious of others or vengeful, is in the mode of anger. He thinks that he is the best devotee. Devotional service executed in this way is not pure; it is mixed and is of the lowest grade, tamasah. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura advises that a Vaisnava who is not of good character should be avoided. A Vaisnava is one who has taken the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the ultimate goal of life, but if one is not pure and still has motives, then he is not a Vaisnava of the first order of good character. One may offer his respects to such a Vaisnava because he has accepted the Supreme Lord as the ultimate goal of life, but one should not keep company with a Vaisnava who is in the mode of ignorance.

TEXT 9

visayan abhisandhaya

yasa aisvaryam eva va

arcadav arcayed yo mam

prthag-bhavah sa rajasah

SYNONYMS

visayan--sense objects; abhisandhaya--aiming at; yasah--fame; aisvaryam--opulence; eva--indeed; va--or; arca-adau--in worship of the Deity and so on; arcayet--may worship; yah--he who; mam--Me; prthak-bhavah--a separatist; sah--he; rajasah--in the mode of passion.

TRANSLATION

The worship of Deities in the temple by a separatist, with a motive for material enjoyment, fame and opulence, is devotion in the mode of passion.

PURPORT

The word "separatist" must be understood carefully. The Sanskrit words in this connection are bhinna-drk and prthag-bhavah. A separatist is one who sees his interest as separate from that of the Supreme Lord. Mixed devotees, or devotees in the modes of passion and ignorance, think that the interest of the Supreme Lord is supplying the orders of the devotee; the interest of such devotees is to draw from the Lord as much as possible for their sense gratification. This is the separatist mentality. Actually, pure devotion is explained in the previous chapter: the mind of the Supreme Lord and the mind of the devotee should be dovetailed. A devotee should not wish anything but to execute the desire of the Supreme. That is oneness. When the devotee has an interest or will different from the interest of the Supreme Lord, his mentality is that of a separatist. When the so-called devotee desires material enjoyment, without reference to the interest of the Supreme Lord, or he wants to become famous or opulent by utilizing the mercy or grace of the Supreme Lord, he is in the mode of passion.

Mayavadis, however, interpret this word "separatist" in a different way. They say that while worshiping the Lord, one should think himself one with the Supreme Lord. This is another adulterated form of devotion within the modes of material nature. The conception that the living entity is one with the Supreme is in the mode of ignorance. Oneness is actually based on oneness of interest. A pure devotee has no interest but to act on behalf of the Supreme Lord. When one has even a tinge of personal interest, his devotion is mixed with the three modes of material nature.

TEXT 10

karma-nirharam uddisya

parasmin va tad-arpanam

yajed yastavyam iti va

prthag-bhavah sa sattvikah

SYNONYMS

karma--fruitive activities; nirharam--freeing himself from; uddisya--with the purpose of; parasmin--to the Supreme Personality of Godhead; va--or; tat-arpanam--offering the result of activities; yajet--may worship; yastavyam--to be worshiped; iti--thus; va--or; prthak-bhavah--separatist; sah--he; sattvikah--in the mode of goodness.

TRANSLATION

When a devotee worships the Supreme Personality of Godhead and offers the results of his activities in order to free himself from the inebrieties of fruitive activities, his devotion is in the mode of goodness.

PURPORT

The brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas and sudras, along with the brahmacaris, grhasthas, vanaprasthas and sannyasis, are the members of the eight divisions of varnas and asramas, and they have their respective duties to perform for the satisfaction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When such activities are performed and the results are offered to the Supreme Lord, they are called karmarpanam, duties performed for the satisfaction of the Lord. If there is any inebriety or fault, it is atoned for by this offering process. But if this offering process is in the mode of goodness rather than in pure devotion, then the interest is different. The four asramas and the four varnas act for some benefit in accordance with their personal interests. Therefore such activities are in the mode of goodness; they cannot be counted in the category of pure devotion. Pure devotional service as described by Rupa Gosvami is free from all material desires. Anyabhilasita-sunyam. There can be no excuse for personal or material interest. Devotional activities should be transcendental to fruitive activities and empiric philosophical speculation. Pure devotional service is transcendental to all material qualities.

Devotional service in the modes of ignorance, passion and goodness can be divided into eighty-one categories. There are different devotional activities, such as hearing, chanting, remembering, worshiping, offering prayer, rendering service and surrendering everything, and each of them can be divided into three qualitative categories. There is hearing in the mode of passion, in the mode of ignorance and in the mode of goodness. Similarly, there is chanting in the mode of ignorance, passion and goodness, etc. Three multiplied by nine equals twenty-seven, and when again multiplied by three it becomes eighty-one. One has to transcend all such mixed materialistic devotional service in order to reach the standard of pure devotional service, as explained in the next verses.

TEXT 11-12

mad-guna-sruti-matrena

mayi sarva-guhasaye

mano-gatir avicchinna

yatha gangambhaso 'mbudhau

laksanam bhakti-yogasya

nirgunasya hy udahrtam

ahaituky avyavahita

ya bhaktih purusottame

SYNONYMS

mat--of Me; guna--qualities; sruti--by hearing; matrena--just; mayi--towards Me; sarva-guha-asaye--residing in everyone's heart; manah-gatih--the heart's course; avicchinna--continuous; yatha--as; ganga--of the Ganges; ambhasah--of the water; ambudhau--towards the ocean; laksanam--the manifestation; bhakti-yogasya--of devotional service; nirgunasya--unadulterated; hi--indeed; udahrtam--exhibited; ahaituki--causeless; avyavahita--not separated; ya--which; bhaktih--devotional service; purusa-uttame--towards the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

TRANSLATION

The manifestation of unadulterated devotional service is exhibited when one's mind is at once attracted to hearing the transcendental name and qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is residing in everyone's heart. Just as the water of the Ganges flows naturally down towards the ocean, such devotional ecstasy, uninterrupted by any material condition, flows towards the Supreme Lord.

PURPORT

The basic principle of this unadulterated, pure devotional service is love of Godhead. Mad-guna-sruti-matrena means "just after hearing about the transcendental qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." These qualities are called nirguna. The Supreme Lord is uncontaminated by the modes of material nature; therefore He is attractive to the pure devotee. There is no need to practice meditation to attain such attraction; the pure devotee is already in the transcendental stage, and the affinity between him and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is natural and is compared to the Ganges water flowing towards the sea. The flow of the Ganges water cannot be stopped by any condition; similarly, a pure devotee's attraction for the transcendental name, form and pastimes of the Supreme Godhead cannot be stopped by any material condition. The word avicchinna, "without interruptions," is very important in this connection. No material condition can stop the flow of the devotional service of a pure devotee.

The word ahaituki means "without reason." A pure devotee does not render loving service to the Personality of Godhead for any cause or for any benefit, material or spiritual. This is the first symptom of unalloyed devotion. Anyabhilasita-sunyam: he has no desire to fulfill by rendering devotional service. Such devotional service is meant for the purusottama, the Supreme Personality, and not for anyone else. Sometimes pseudodevotees show devotion to many demigods, thinking the forms of the demigods to be the same as the Supreme Personality of Godhead's form. It is specifically mentioned herein, however, that bhakti, devotional service, is meant only for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana, Visnu, or Krsna, not for anyone else.

Avyavahita means "without cessation." A pure devotee must engage in the service of the Lord twenty-four hours a day, without cessation; his life is so molded that at every minute and every second he engages in some sort of devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Another meaning of the word avyavahita is that the interest of the devotee and the interest of the Supreme Lord are on the same level. The devotee has no interest but to fulfill the transcendental desire of the Supreme Lord. Such spontaneous service unto the Supreme Lord is transcendental and is never contaminated by the material modes of nature. These are the symptoms of pure devotional service, which is free from all contamination of material nature.

[krsna]

 

 

 

Another meaning of the word avyavahita is that the interest of the devotee and the interest of the Supreme Lord are on the same level. The devotee has no interest but to fulfill the transcendental desire of the Supreme Lord. Such spontaneous service unto the Supreme Lord is transcendental and is never contaminated by the material modes of nature. These are the symptoms of pure devotional service, which is free from all contamination of material nature.

 

[Guest guest]

Prabhupada did not found a Church. He continued the mission of Lord Caitanya by spreading the holy name to every town and village across the entire world.

This is as far from being a church as a smart brahmana is from Narada Muni.

[krsna]

 

Prabhupada did not found a Church. He continued the mission of Lord Caitanya by spreading the holy name to every town and village across the entire world.

This is as far from being a church as a smart brahmana is from Narada Muni.

 

Srila Prabhupada on unity-

 

“…if we keep Krsna in the center, then there

will be agreement in varieties. This is called unity in diversity. I am

therefore suggesting that all our men meet in Mayapur every year during

the birth anniversary of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. With all GBC and

senior men present we should discuss how to make unity in diversity. But,

if we fight on account of diversity, then it is simply the material

platform. Please try to maintain the philosophy of unity in diversity.

That will make our movement successful.”

 

Diversity cannot be stopped, and replaced with unification, based on a

single person’s opinion, or a group’s viewpoint. Spiritually we claim to

rally around the teachings of Srila Prabhupada but we are collectively

playing with a material deck of cards, and thus the diversity. We cannot

force all devotees into a single opinion, and Srila Prabhupada knew this.

In his infinite wisdom he foresaw the reality of diversity, and asked us

to find a common unity within it.

 

This Vaisnava council forum has been an experiment for 3 years in

allowing diverse discussions on the main problems of our society, namely

guru tattva. Iskcon will not even allow discussion of the ritvik issue,

but we have allowed it, but still we cannot attain complete unity in one

opinion. This more or less proves that we cannot kill the beast of

diversity, but we have to learn to live with it, and achieve unity

despite all diversity. This is Srila Prabhupada’s point as demonstrated

in the quote above.

 

An essential point is that all diversity must fall under the guidelines

of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, his books, conversations, his letters,

and so on. We cannot have off-the-wall diversity. We cannot have “do your

own thing” types of concoction diversity. Although some will claim the

ritviks fall in this category, this council has clearly defeated such a

claim. At least, most members should admit that the various guru

viewpoints have their merit, enough that different devotees can all

choose their preference, and we can still live in diversity, and nobody

is going to hell with some “dangerous philosophy.” So we have to learn to

live with diversity, as long as it falls under the purview of Srila

Prabhupada’s words and orders.

 

The big problem is, Iskcon is hostile to diversity, and the result is

chaos, and the resultant suppression of information and negation of

common sense continues the downward tail-spin of the movement. Devotees

are seeing this already. In our forum, we allow diversity, and we are

somehow even achieving a sense of unity, despite the harsh posts we

sometimes see. Even Puranjana and Mahaksa have reached some semblance of

unity within diversity.

 

We can understand that the “Iskcon law book” items on the possible

fallibility of gurus, acknowledgement that they might fall, and allowing

the 5 year trial period of rectification of such conditioned souls, and

again rubber stamp them to be gurus – is all a symptom of their fear and

insecurity of maintaining their devotional careers. To accept the

“officiating acharya” or ritvik position only means to them a major

displacement in the lives of disciples and the gurus, thus their

hostility towards such ideas. This fear is stemming from word semantics,

thinking that the title “guru” will secure them [and disciples] a

permanent livelihood or career in Krishna Consciousness, and the only way

to a glorious position, and the title “officiating acharya” will not give

them any security or glory. Take away this baseless fear, and promote

discussion and education, and what Srila Prabhupada really said on the

issue, and all these false conceptions will melt away.

 

So to come to grips with reality, they should come to the conclusion,

that the post of being Srila Prabhupada’s representative is just as

glorious, and more conducive to their career in most circumstances, and

it gives spiritual and material maintenance, and the false assumption of

title of guru, when qualification is not really there, is actually

damaging to theirs and everyone’s devotional life, and damaging to our

collective reputation and most important, damaging to Srila Prabhupada’s

reputation as well.

 

Some may not agree with my conclusions here, well hey, that’s the

diversity. So, we don’t kill the diversity or each other, we live with

it, live with each other, and eventually the continuation of Vaisnava

discussion and Krishna’s mercy will bridge the schisms. Well, rambling

on, so will sign off for now,

ys,

visoka dasa

[Guest guest]

I think it's just peachy that the GBC is 'allowing' for guru fall-downs. Especially, in light of the fact that they have confered upon themselves the infallible authority to appoint them.

[krsna]

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Srila B. R. Sridhara Maharaja has summarized Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada's mission thus:

With his first step, he cut to pieces the whole plane of exploitation, and

with his second, he crushed the speculation of scholars of salvation and

liberation.

 

With his third, he softened vaidhi-bhakti with a touch of divine love (raga-marga).

 

Taking us beyond Vaikuntha, he has introduced us to the highest worship of Sri Radha and Govinda.

 

With the softness of Vrndavana within, and the hardness of a devastator

without, he created havoc in the world-fighting with one and all.

Singlehandedly fighting against the whole world and cutting everything to

pieces-that was his external attitude; and his second attitude was to stop

the boasting research of the scholars and doctors of different schools of

thought; and third, to minimize and slacken the grandeur of the worship of

Narayana, and establish the service of Radha-Govinda as the highest attainment.

He caused the domain of love to descend into this plane, with

the service of Radha-Govinda, establishing the flow of divine love from the heart as all in all.

That was his history-

the real existence of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati

Thakura Prabhupada.

May his divine teachings, bhaktisiddhanta-vani,

dance eternally within the core of our hearts.

 

Prabhupada astakam, verse 1

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Purity is the essence in the practice of sadhana bhatki.

 

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had a very large mission with temples and devotees all over the world and to spread his mission he authorized some people to act as ritviks to carry out the formalities of the diksa (initiation) process.

 

But what about situations where the ritvik was found to be engaged in sinful activities? Some devotees who were initiated via the ritvik process via people such as Kirtanananda felt that they had not received the pure connection they were seeking. They felt disheartened because the ritvik was found to be a sinner.

 

In the case of Srilekha devi dasi, who was initiated in Toronto in 1970 (she is one of my wife's best friends), she felt she had not gotten diksa because she got it through a fallen soul. So she asked Srila Sridhar Maharaj for "re-initiation" and he gave it to her.

 

Purity is the essence. Sincerity is everything. If the ritvik is useless, a person will feel this sort of emtiness in their heart and feel the need to find a pure Guru.

 

- Muralidhar das