Is this the best way to Upgrade Your Life: To Systematically Study Sastra in Mayapur?

[Beggar]

 

...over attachment to reciting slokas for everything - including tying one's shoes laces...

 

Eh! uts uh matta wif uh you. You no lika da shoe tying mantra?

[Guruvani]

 

Nah!! Who am I kidding?

 

I'm a dog (and not a very faithful one at that). Perhaps, sometimes, my Master makes me dance.

 

I seems like you are very nice person and a good candidate for devotional service.

 

What I wish for you though is that someday you can get into a strict program of sadhana.

I was fortunate that I had about 8 good years of strict sadhana in ISKCON and SCSMandira. If not for that, I don't think I would be hanging on to Krishna consciousness at this stage of my life.

 

What is really funny though is that even as fallen and degraded as I am, I still get a big charge out of chanting some rounds on my beads.

 

It is the only magic I have found in Krishna consciousness. This chanting of the Maha-mantra is for real. It is very sublime. Lately, I have been chanting more and something very sweet and sublime is touching my soul and my consciousness.

 

I went through some periods of very strict sadhana and chanting 50 rounds a day. It must have had some long term effects, otherwise I can't explain why this chanting Hare Krishna is so potent and sweet like ambrosia to a thirsty and tortured soul.

 

Still, I have plenty of distractions and even though chanting Hare Krishna is very blissful and pleasing, I don't chant as much as I should.

 

You probably had some connection in your past life and you are probably drawing on that too.

 

But, it can't be emphasized enough how important it is to do some austerities and practice some serious sadhana that will give potency to the chanting of the Holy Name.

 

If devotees never pratice at least some period of strict sadhana in their life it will be very difficult to taste the honey of Krishna consciousness and they will be bottle-lickers and eventually lose faith and become offensive.

 

My years of sadhana are my only asset.

 

Please don't deny yourself this vital aspect of Krishna consciousness.

[krsna]

 

I seems like you are very nice person and a good candidate for devotional service.

 

What I wish for you though is that someday you can get into a strict program of sadhana.

I was fortunate that I had about 8 good years of strict sadhana in ISKCON and SCSMandira. If not for that, I don't think I would be hanging on to Krishna consciousness at this stage of my life.

 

What is really funny though is that even as fallen and degraded as I am, I still get a big charge out of chanting some rounds on my beads.

 

It is the only magic I have found in Krishna consciousness. This chanting of the Maha-mantra is for real. It is very sublime. Lately, I have been chanting more and something very sweet and sublime is touching my soul and my consciousness.

 

I went through some periods of very strict sadhana and chanting 50 rounds a day. It must have had some long term effects, otherwise I can't explain why this chanting Hare Krishna is so potent and sweet like ambrosia to a thirsty and tortured soul.

 

Still, I have plenty of distractions and even though chanting Hare Krishna is very blissful and pleasing, I don't chant as much as I should.

 

You probably had some connection in your past life and you are probably drawing on that too.

 

But, it can't be emphasized enough how important it is to do some austerities and practice some serious sadhana that will give potency to the chanting of the Holy Name.

 

If devotees never pratice at least some period of strict sadhana in their life it will be very difficult to taste the honey of Krishna consciousness and they will be bottle-lickers and eventually lose faith and become offensive.

 

My years of sadhana are my only asset.

 

Please don't deny yourself this vital aspect of Krishna consciousness.

 

What sadhana is most appropriate for us Kali-yuga souls battered by our wicked minds?

 

Give us the low down on the most quickest method of attaining a steady sadhana whereby we can then taste the Holy Name divine?

Thanks

 

Haribol!

 

ps- please give me an upgrade without having to go all the way to Mayapur!

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

What was Srila Prabhupada's Answer?

BY: BHAGAVAT DAS (ACBSP)

 

Jun 29, USA (SUN) —

I read Mahavidya dasa’s “

Different Strokes for Different Folks

”. He poses the following question to the readers:

 

”As I have said before...

at the time of my death, which is for certain,

when I am held accountable for all that I have or have not done,

If I am asked by His Divine Grace ......

Did you not care for My Iskcon society?

What steps did you take to rectify the situation?

What will I answer to Srila Prabhupada?”

 

So supposing we change the time, place, and persons in this scenario. Now we have our Srila Prabhupada answering his Srila Prabhupada shortly after the time of his departure from this world. Of course this is really stretching it here, because Srila Prabhupada told us more than once that he was always with his guru maharaja, which would mean that he was consulting him as he would consult Krsna whom he was also in constant contact with. However for poetic license and continuity of cerebral concept I humbly request the readers to bear with me. Thanks!

 

At the time of Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance from his manifest pastimes,

When Srila Saraswati Thakura held our Srila Prabhupada accountable for all that He had or had not done,

When Srila Saraswati Thakura asked His Divine Grace ......

Did you not care for My Gaudiya Matha society?

What steps did you take to rectify the situation?

 

What do you think Srila Prabhupada gave as His answer?”

Would his reply be based on what service He had accomplished? Would He say something like the following perhaps?

 

I started the Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti with my god brother, one of your dear and obedient disciples Srila Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Maharaja, which eventually produced over 60 temple’s and Matha’s in India distributing thousands of literatures, recruiting the thousands of disciples you sent them, including one disciple Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja who will in the future preach all over the world and translate and print so many Gaudiya Vaishnava Literatures while giving shelter and siksha to the disciples you sent me.

 

I associated with and supported my dear god brother and another of your dear disciples Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Maharaja, who wrote and translated so many books and who in the future will give shelter and siksha to the disciples you sent me.

 

I started a world wide preaching society called ISKCON which helped to fulfill the prophecies of Lord Caitanya and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura by opening up over 108 temples all over the world, I translated into English and published so many volumes of Gaudiya Vaishnava Literature and distributed millions of books, I recruited the thousands of disciples you sent me, some of whom will become world wide preachers and authors in their own right and continue to expand the mission, like Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja, and Srila Bhakti Swarupa Damodara Maharaja. I opened prasadam restaurants to convert the meat eaters and distributed prasadam to millions of jivas, l opened transcendental schools for the spiritually bereft children, l performed Rathayatra Festivals in every major city of the world, l established Deity Worship all over the world, I established a transcendental artists co-operative that created hundreds of windows to the spiritual world in the form of paintings and dioramas, I established farms, made movies, tapes, and on and on.

 

After Srila Prabhupada gave this report do any of the readers think that Srila Saraswati Thakura was disappointed in our Srila Prabhupada’s performance because he did not accomplish these things within the confines of the Gaudiya Matha that was started by Srila Saraswati Thakura?

 

Opening temples, translating/writing and publishing books, distributing those books and the books of your spiritual master, recruiting new devotees, distributing prasadam, holding spiritual festivals, and most of all providing the jivas with the association of devotees, most especially pure devotees who are on the uttama adhikary platform but are acting on the level of a Madhyam Uttama for preaching, these are the activities one who is satisfying the desires of his Guru Maharaja carrying on the preaching mission. Just as important is the culture of love and affection amongst devotees, God-brother’s and God-sister’s, the protection of women, children, the diseased, and the elderly.

 

As disciples of Srila Prabhupada if we find ourselves unable to work within the framework of an institution that consistently refuses to correct itself by placing the institution ahead of the siddhanta and therefore compromising the siddhanta of the parampara, that has obfuscated the truth about Srila Prabhupada’s actual instructions on how to manage the society, has consistently protected and harbored abusers of women and children while neglecting the victims, and has created a false system of allegiance to those leaders who perpetrate these acts, then is it worth the energy to try and rectify that organization or should we expend that energy directly in preaching activities for the benefit of the fallen conditioned souls.

 

Srila Prabhupada saw many of the same problems with the Gaudiya Matha and as a result he decided to band together with those god brothers who were like minded in wanting to follow the exact instructions of their guru maharaja and begin a new society that would reflect the teachings of his guru maharaja as it is. Hence he established the Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti and later the League of Devotees and even though the League of Devotees failed he came to the USA and established ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada taught us to separately incorporate each individual temple and that the temple president should manage his own affairs with the oversight of the GBC but never gave them authority to unnecessarily meddle in the day to day operations, which was the job of the temple president. When the GBC overstepped their bounds on a couple of occasions Srila Prabhupada dismissed them and told the temple presidents to manage their own affairs without them.

 

So since it is obvious that the GBC is no longer following the original instructions of the Founder Acharya, then why do the temple presidents still take direction from them? Why don’t they just manage their own affairs as Srila Prabhupada taught them and ignore the GBC until it is again in line with the DOM as established by the Founder Acharya? You already have the precedence from Srila Prabhupada that when the GBC did not follow His instructions he would disband them and tell the temple presidents to manage themselves. SO GO AHEAD AND DO IT!

 

Stop wasting time on trying to rectify those who refuse to follow the orders and go out and preach. Open your own temples and preaching centers, make devotees, distribute the original unedited books, distribute prasadam, and preach. Call yourselves ISKCON and when they challenge you in court make them prove that they have the right to control your preaching activities. We are not getting any younger and time is running out on our ability to serve in this capacity. Why waste valuable time and energy in trying to rectify those who have no interest in being rectified. When we were young we would go to a city all by ourselves and open a preaching center. We usually had no money and often hitch hiked to the prospective city. We have a lot more assets now. Most of the old devotees have cars, and computers and some money saved or equity in a home that we can cash in on. Find a place you would like to open up a preaching center with some like-minded god brothers and god sisters and GO PREACH!

 

When you have opened enough preaching centers then either they will have to work with you or you can organize all the independent centers as another society. Just follow Srila Prabhupada’s order and go and preach. You do not need their permission or even their co-operation. You have the order just like Srila Prabhupada had and you have the example of setting up independently incorporated preaching centers as Srila Prabhupada did, so just PREACH! Just consider the GBC disbanded because they failed to follow Srila Prabhupada’s DOM and then manage your own affairs and PREACH! Srila Prabhupada’s allegiance was to the order of His Guru not the Gaudiya Matha. Our allegiance should also be to the order of Srila Prabhupada to preach and not to the society which disobeys his orders with impunity!

 

So when you face Srila Prabhupada on judgment day and when He asks you what you have done for Him you can say:

 

I fought and argued with all my god brothers and god sisters to try and make them follow your orders and instructions in the DOM but they just would not do it they just refused to co-operate. So I spent most of my life after you left, working like a dog for some cretin boss in a dead end job trying to maintain my family and doing little or no spiritual activities waiting for ISKCON to follow your instructions so I could preach with them again.

 

OR YOU COULD SAY THIS TO SRILA PRABHUPADA:

 

I followed your example Srila Prabhupada I did not waste my time with those who were not following your orders I just went out and PREACHED! And this is how many books I distributed, and how many devotees I made, and how much prasadam I distributed, etc, etc.

 

SO what would you like to tell Srila Prabhupada when you meet him; number one or number two? I know what I want to say. I have found some god brothers and god sisters I want to work with. I am going out to PREACH! See you in the field!

 

[Shakti-Fan]

P.S. Although Laulyam already posted the above post as a thread I took the chance of reposting it here as a response since Srila Prabhupada stressed preaching, even as a way to increase our desire to perfom sadhana.

[Guruvani]

 

What sadhana is most appropriate for us Kali-yuga souls battered by our wicked minds?

 

Give us the low down on the most quickest method of attaining a steady sadhana whereby we can then taste the Holy Name divine?

Thanks

 

Haribol!

 

ps- please give me an upgrade without having to go all the way to Mayapur!

I don't know any special secret. I ain't the one will all the sadhana.

 

The only time I was able to practice sadhana was when I lived in a temple.

 

You have to be in a group of strict practicing devotees to do the sadhana thing.

 

Living alone and trying to be the sadhaka doesn't work except for the rare few.

 

Maybe if I would have had a nice supportive devotee wife like Babhru I could have done much better outside the temples.

 

It's sad that there aren't more opportunities for devotees outside the brain-dead bureaucracy of ISKCON.

 

We need some good politics-free ashrams where devotees can live together and support each other to be strong devotees.

 

Unfortunately, we don't have that.

 

What's the secret? I wish I knew.

But, the shastra says that purascharya-vidhi is the life-force of chanting the Holy Name.

 

So, living in an ashram of devotees, getting up in the morning for mangal arotrik, chanting japa, attending classses................... going out on Harinama Sankirtan...... the program Srila Prabhupada gave.

 

That is the magic formula.

 

But, it also takes some magic on our part to get with the program and keep with it.

 

Hey, if you got the chance to go to Mayapura and live, then why not?

 

If I was single and had the money to do that, that is more than likely what I would do.

 

Maybe I would see about living in South India there with Narasingha Maharaja and my old ISKCON friend BB Vishnu Maharaja.

 

I was new bhakta at the same time Vishnu Maharaja was and we got to be friends as new devotees at the L.A. Temple in 1975.

He was Bhakta David back then and I was Japa Jim.

(there was another Bhakta Jim, so Danavir named me "Japa" Jim to distinguish between the two Jims.

 

South India.......... with Narasingha Maharaja?

 

That would be a really cool idea.

[Guest guest]

BTW, Murali is a way cool cyber pal.

 

to The guy who sees only evil in the happy smily faces, Im sorry.

 

I like the pics, too. I didnt see smily and happy, I saw "OLD". The same trhing I see when I get around to shaving.

 

The desks are a bit much. Why not lay in the shade somewhere. Did they run out of beaches or parks? I wouldnt want to sit there, I wouldnt be able to remember krsna, Id just be thinking bout the teacher ready to crack my knuckles with his ruler. Hell, I got the blessed virgin embossed in me scalp from all dem hedonistic nuns.

 

Okay, Im done spammin for today. My stand-up comedy routine is over, now Ill go read about the new guru advertizing here. I read the word "I" or "my" over two hundred tiumes in a very short article. Anyone who uses first person lie dat must be a guru, or even god himself.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

As they said on the jefferson airplane, "Sign me up as a diplomat, my only office is the park."

[suchandra]

According Satsvarupa das Goswami, the best way to upgrade your spiritual life is to get into the mood of appreciating the late sunlight streaming through the temple window.

 

by Satsvarupa das Goswami

Dear ISKCON,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I don’t want to take on a huge topic in this letter, but let me make a few partial statements. Maybe later I can add them.

You, dear institution, are such a complex entity that there is little I can say that everyone will accept as fact. I know your history, especially of the early days, and that’s always fun to describe. Prabhupada compared your birth to the appearance of Lord Varaha from Lord Brahma’s nostril. He was small and then grew quickly. You first appeared in Srila Prabhupada’s mind and then grew quickly in America, attracting dozens, then hundreds, then thousands of young men and women, Prabhupada was the magnet that drew us-Prabhupada with his Hare Krsna mantra, krsna-prasadam, and knowledge of Krsna.

It’s safe to say, therefore, that you are a spiritual entity. Lord Krsna has appeared in you just as much as He has appeared in His other forms in Kali-yuga. The complexity comes when we start describing the wrongs that have occurred in ISKCON in the name of ISKCON. Are you, ISKCON, Vaikuntha or even a sample of Vaikuntha? Some say that the original ISKCON, Prabhupada’s movement, no longer exists. They think we are left with only a corrupt outer shell. Others say that whoever criticizes ISKCON is a demon. In other words, some equate you with the Krsna consciousness movement, the flow of Lord Caitanya’s sankirtana, and that you will always remain victorious despite all appearances to the contrary.

Others don’t agree. They say that you are not the representative of pure Krsna consciousness, but an institutionalized, GBC-governed entity that moves along from year to year veering sometimes to the left and sometimes to the right, but not often resolving its problems. I said at the beginning of this letter that I wasn’t going to bite off more than I could chew and try to cut through the various opinions. What’s prompting me to write this letter today is that I just received a letter in which someone attempted to describe my own relationship with ISKCON. This person said that I seem to have major disagreements with the authorities of this movement.

The letter implied that if I actually followed my own inclinations, I might leave ISKCON entirely. The person who wrote this letter is himself disgusted with ISKCON and has left in search of better association. That letter makes me want to address my own connection to you, ISKCON, Prabhupada’s movement. First, I do believe that you are still Prabhupada’s movement. I don’t think that I am just playing it safe in my lack of criticism of this movement. The person who wrote me criticized me for being apathetic toward the wrongs in ISKCON and suggested that if I were a real witness in truth, I would speak out against those wrongs.

I have included a response to that: let me correct my own wrongs. That includes not getting entangled in what I may see as wrong behaviour of ISKCON. It’s a quiet method of reform; it’s nonpolitical, and it’s what I can do best. You are still Prabhupada’s movement. I don’t think the saying “ISKCON, with all thy faults, I love thee” is outmoded. If I can say it deeply despite the wrongs and by being persistently loyal, then it’s the best position I can take. What are these wrongs? You know the charges. We went wrong in drastic ways after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance. The top leadership gets the blame for that. Some say there has been no reform of the basic wrong attitudes which drive devotees away–manipulative power-hungry leaders, branding as heretics devotees who have differing opinions, offending Gaudiya Vaisnavas from other camps, and so on. ISKCON, with all they faults I love thee.

I have seen and felt how beautiful it is to be in a temple, gathering together with your members to see the Deities at mangala arati, or at an afternoon arati with only a few devotees present and late sunlight streaming through the window. I’ve seen the preaching drive in your members as they risk their lives to distribute Prabhupada’s books and maintain you in unsettled places in this material world. Sentimental? You could say so, but such a skeptic would think that devotion to Krsna was sentimental. Remember that sensational “true crime” book, Monkey on a Stick?

The thing that horrified an ISKCON member on looking through that book was how they had distorted the quality of ISKCON life. The authors had distorted the facts and were even often mistaken. They did have the police records-who killed whom, who misappropriated funds, who misled devotees, who fell down–but even in those cases, their description of what it was like for the average temple devotee was bogus and based on no experience. The author couldn’t see into the devotees’ hearts and he couldn’t understand Krsna’s statement that even if a devotee commits abominable behavior, he is still rightly situated.

They don’t know how precious and rare it is for someone in this world to render sincere service to Srila Prabhupada and Krsna in this movement. It’s true that one can render sincere service to Krsna and it is probably possible to render service to Prabhupada outside of ISKCON. But if it can be done outside of ISKCON, why can’t it be done inside ISKCON? If there are sincere persons both within and without ISKCON, then I choose to be within. That’s where Prabhupada wants me to be as far as I know. If ISKCON were devoid of sincere devotees and has actually become corrupt, then who could follow it and say that it was what Prabhupada wanted? But I would be very, very afraid of deciding that ISKCON was so corrupt that Prabhupada would no longer want me to serve here. When I meet up with Prabhupada again, how can I say “But Prabhupada, I thought ISKCON was completely bogus and that we should leave?” His voice echoes in his mind: “Who said? Who is that rascal?” I admit that I fail to face up to all of ISKCON’s faults.

I feel too protective and loyal. I don’t want to make waves. Besides, it’s not my nature to find faults and then proclaim them. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. I am guilty of not being an all-out reformer, and thus I’m implicated in ISKCON’s wrongs by default. I also admit to failing in the second half of the expression, “ISKCON, with all thy faults-I love thee”. If I loved you, ISKCON, I would be more active and would try to make myself a more worthy member. If I loved you more, I would see the spiritual world in the movement as it exists in this confederation of temples, the ISKCON that publishes Back to Godhead magazine, the ISKCON that goes on Navadvipa and Vrindavana parikrama, and yes, the ISKCON that blows its own horn, sometimes in a superficial way, in the ISKCON World Review.

The ISKCON of the businessman devotee cashing in on the market of devotional items, the ISKCON that also sells pure bhakti. Many, many ISKCON devotees love Srila Prabhupada and serve him with their body, mind, and words. I don’t think that this can be matched anywhere else in the world. That is what attracts me and binds me to ISKCON. One devotee was telling me how her co-workers discovered that she was a Hare Krsna. She told them that she sometimes meditates by chanting mantras. One of her colleagues queried her further, “What mantras do you chant?” She took a chance, smiled, and said, “Hare Krsna Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare,/ Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.” Her associate exclaimed, “You mean you are with those people who drive around singing from a truck?” (He was referring to the flatbed truck the New York devotees use to perform harinama.) The devotee blurted out, “Yes, the very ones!” George Harrison said something similar when he aligned himself with the devotees.

He said that when it is time to be counted, he would prefer to stand with the devotees rather than with the nondevotees. I think like that to, that I want to be counted among the very ones, the Prabhupada fanatics, the devotees with all their faults-of ISKCON. “ISKCON, with all thy faults, please accept me.”

EXTRACT FROM CHURNING THE MILK OCEAN

[Guruvani]

Satsvarupa das Goswami:

 

 

I am guilty of not being an all-out reformer, and thus I’m implicated in ISKCON’s wrongs by default.

I guess he is admitting that Srila Prabhupada actually appointed ritviks and that the bhogi-guru system in ISKCON is just plain evil?

 

He knows he is wrong.

 

He can't get his mind off women, even if the woman is a devotee - she is still a woman.

 

 

One devotee was telling me how her co-workers discovered that she was a Hare Krsna.

 

She told them that she sometimes meditates by chanting mantras.

 

One of her colleagues queried her further, “What mantras do you chant?”

 

” She took a chance, smiled, and said, “Hare Krsna

 

” Her associate exclaimed, “You mean you are with those people who drive around singing from a truck?”

some of them devotee women are quite attractive.

 

It looks like old Satsvarupa can't get them off his mind?

[suchandra]

 

Satsvarupa das Goswami:

 

 

 

I guess he is admitting that Srila Prabhupada actually appointed ritviks and that the bogi-guru system in ISKCON is just plain evil?

 

He knows he is wrong.

 

He can't get his mind off women, even if the woman is a devotee - she is still a woman.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

some of them devotee women are quite attractive.

 

It looks like old Satsvarupa can't get them off his mind?

 

What is totally obvious - he just cant understand how much back breaking suffering was inflicted upon so many devotees. His logic seems to just reach of how he feels - "for me it's ok, therefore in sum ISKCON is doing fine". This is clearly not the behaviour of a Vaishnava.

[Guruvani]

Satsvarupa and Tamal both renounced the service that Srila Prabhupada assigned to them to be GBC members and conduct ISKCON in the exact same way that it was going on when Srila Prabhupada passed.

 

Srila Prabhupada said on his deathbead several times "don't change anything after I am gone".

He even asked his senior men "do you understand this" and they all lied and said "yes Srila Prabhupada we understand" .

 

So, Satavarupa and Tamal both renounced the service Srila Prabhupada assigned them as their proper service to him as he wanted it.

 

They rejected that and fabricated a false service of being diksha gurus at the cost of trashing the system that Srila Prabhupada had in place in ISKCON.

 

There is no way they can deny that.

 

There are others who rejected that service too.

Balavanta got disgusted with ISKCON, resigned from the GBC and left ISKCON.

 

I am not sure how many others rejected their GBC position that Srila Prabhupada has assigned to them.

 

But, this is not acceptable for any of them.

 

They cannot reject the service that Srila Prabhupada gave them and fabricate some other service.

 

Srila Prabhupada explicitly assigned these men the position as GBC members with the responsibility of continuing ISKCON in the same manner it was in when Srila Prabhupada was here.

 

When they renounced their service to Srila Prabhupada they lost their position and became rogue devotees and offenders to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Nothing has changed.

They are still rogue devotees and offenders to Srila Prabhupada and traitors to the sacred service Srila Prabhupada gave them.

[krsna]

 

Satsvarupa and Tamal both renounced the service that Srila Prabhupada assigned to them to be GBC members and conduct ISKCON in the exact same way that it was going on when Srila Prabhupada passed.

 

Srila Prabhupada said on his deathbead several times "don't change anything after I am gone".

He even asked his senior men "do you understand this" and they all lied and said "yes Srila Prabhupada we understand" .

 

So, Satavarupa and Tamal both renounced the service Srila Prabhupada assinged them as their proper service to him as he wanted it.

 

They rejected that and fabricated a false service of being diksha gurus at the cost of trashing the system that Srila Prabhupada had in place in ISKCON.

 

There is no way they can deny that.

 

There are others who rejected that service too.

Balavanta got disgusted with ISKCON, resigned from the GBC and left ISKCON.

 

I am not sure how many others rejected their GBC position that Srila Prabhupada has assigned to them.

 

But, this is not acceptable for any of them.

 

They cannot reject the service that Srila Prabhupada gave them and fabricate some other service.

 

Srila Prabhupada explicitly assigned these men the position as GBC members with the responsibility of continuing ISKCON in the same manner it was in when Srila Prabhupada was here.

 

When they renounced their service to Srila Prabhupada they lost their position and became rogue devotees and offenders to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Nothing has changed.

They are still rogue devotees and offenders to Srila Prabhupada and traitors to the sacred service Srila Prabhupada gave them.

 

What exacly is 'sacred service' given to one by the Guru?

Do only some get it?

Do you have to be advanced, senior or extremely desirious in order to get such 'sacred service' to Srila Prabhupada?

[Guest guest]

There is a very good and sacred place called Mahakaleshwar, where one can study the shastra. Its very auspicious to study the Shiv Purana and chant Om Namah Shivaya there. Kashi or Varanasi is the best place.

[Guruvani]

 

What exacly is 'sacred service' given to one by the Guru?

Do only some get it?

Do you have to be advanced, senior or extremely desirious in order to get such 'sacred service' to Srila Prabhupada?

 

if a disciple is one of the most senior disciples of Srila Prabhupada that hogged all the personal association and got direct personal orders from Srila Prabhupada to perform a specific service, then if that is not sacred service that what is?

 

many of us just cooperated with the ISKCON authority of temple presidents and GBC.

We did not get direct personal orders from Srila Prabhupada.

 

If the ISKCON authority becomes defunct and deviates from the orders of Srila Prabhupada, then we can't continue to serve a rogue authority or we also become part of the problem.

 

so, those who were specifically ordered by Srila Prabhupada directly to perform a particular service have no doubts about what they are supposed to do. If they renounce that or reject that, then they have cut themselves off from service to Srila Prabhupada and have becomes servants of their own mind or the defunct GBC authority.

[Guest guest]

Okay, a person is given a management position. He fails to manage properly. Does a subordinate still follow the manager?

 

We judge, with our feet. But there are two types of mundane devotion, and it is prevalent in the community of srila prabhupadas extended (and alone) disciples. Lust and anger. So, we follow and prop up someone who satisfies our devotional lust, our desire to belong and be recognized by management, regardless of their TALENT (or lack thereof) in managing. We call that lackey in another tongue, sycopant, toadie, not very good words.

 

On the other side of this coin is devotion by anger. We see a bunch of folks whose entire life is spent criticizing fallen, bad managers, embezzlers, black marketeers, white slavers, and out and out pervs. They always post the teachings of these jerks and spew their devotional anger for all to see. They see wet sores and land and suck and taste, and spread the disease, like flies.

 

Transcendence means sticking to the tattwa line, no deviation. Srila Prabhupadas movement is not a session of listing the names of non-vaisnavas and speaking of the activities of kali cela. So, a bunch of jerks are pretending, so. Who follows? Why bother trying to SAVE toadies. They obviously have the nectar they are anxious for, so they sit at the feet of insane people, hillbillies, Georgie Girls, LSD moguls, covert deep cover agents whose purpose is to take back the control a real devotee relinquishes by surrendering to a higher authority.

 

Satswarupa is a figure I knew way back then, when he was engaged in the service of our guru maharaja. I remember this service, Im not concerned with the karma he suffers due to the strength of forgetfulness of swarupa, something only caused by KRSNA himself. I worship the rememberance Krsna gives, I also worship the forgetfulness he causes.

 

Transcendence means no more duality of devotion by lust and devotion by anger. Focus. What does Srila Prabhupada teach???????

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[krsna]

 

Okay, a person is given a management position. He fails to manage properly. Does a subordinate still follow the manager?

 

We judge, with our feet. But there are two types of mundane devotion, and it is prevalent in the community of srila prabhupadas extended (and alone) disciples. Lust and anger. So, we follow and prop up someone who satisfies our devotional lust, our desire to belong and be recognized by management, regardless of their TALENT (or lack thereof) in managing. We call that lackey in another tongue, sycopant, toadie, not very good words.

 

On the other side of this coin is devotion by anger. We see a bunch of folks whose entire life is spent criticizing fallen, bad managers, embezzlers, black marketeers, white slavers, and out and out pervs. They always post the teachings of these jerks and spew their devotional anger for all to see. They see wet sores and land and suck and taste, and spread the disease, like flies.

 

Transcendence means sticking to the tattwa line, no deviation. Srila Prabhupadas movement is not a session of listing the names of non-vaisnavas and speaking of the activities of kali cela. So, a bunch of jerks are pretending, so. Who follows? Why bother trying to SAVE toadies. They obviously have the nectar they are anxious for, so they sit at the feet of insane people, hillbillies, Georgie Girls, LSD moguls, covert deep cover agents whose purpose is to take back the control a real devotee relinquishes by surrendering to a higher authority.

 

Satswarupa is a figure I knew way back then, when he was engaged in the service of our guru maharaja. I remember this service, Im not concerned with the karma he suffers due to the strength of forgetfulness of swarupa, something only caused by KRSNA himself. I worship the rememberance Krsna gives, I also worship the forgetfulness he causes.

 

Transcendence means no more duality of devotion by lust and devotion by anger. Focus. What does Srila Prabhupada teach???????

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Is this practical and applied Transcendance according to Prabhupada's teachings??? :confused:

 

Interview with Bhakti Vijnana Swami Chair of the Committee on Succession and Leadership

<!-- end .post-top --><!-- the main section of the post goes here -->What is your vision?

 

We recognize the need for consistent succession policies in the society. The first generation of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples are aging. We now read regularly of a senior devotee’s passing away. We need to ensure that the mood, teachings, energy, and ideas of Srila Prabhupada are properly preserved and transmitted. Generation after generation. We wish to identify and empower devotees with leadership potential to ensure the proper succession. This is our long term need.

 

The main strategy to accomplish this will be training and education initiatives that encapsulate these principles. We identified three strategies to ensure succession: short, middle, and long term:

 

Long term: We need to identify and train the potential future leaders amongst the young generation of ISKCON devotees—both those born in the movement, and those joining. We need to provide them with thorough, systematic training in all areas of Krishna conscious leadership.

Mid term strategy: potential leaders who are already engaged full time in our temples need more systematic training and consistent empowerment for their growth.

 

Short term: Professional development and education and training of our present leaders on the ongoing basis.

In present-day terms, this coresponds to talent scouting, systematic training, and professional development. Some of our present leaders are already doing this through courses and training processes. They need ongoing encouragement and support. In many other places this isn’t happening yet.

 

What were some of the challenges you have faced?

 

In the beginning we struggled to find consensus. We work in different areas and have different experiences and opinions; it took a lot of dialogue to come to a unified understanding and vision. ISKCON is so diversified, making it hard to design a system which works everywhere; we discussed the need for unify in diversity—teaching universal standards, but also allowing for regional adjustments.

 

We concluded that the training should not be just academic, but something that changes the heart and facilitates transformative experiences so trainees “own” and realize the knowledge. Experience is key, and we hope the process will instil a strong allegiance and faith in Srila Prabhupada’s mission and goals. Academic knowledge is easier to teach, but that is not enough. We want to transmit values and spiritual culture.

 

We identified one core element which helps transform the heart: the personal teacher-student relationship. We want this next generation of leaders to place a strong emphasis on spiritual care. Therefore, this educational system needs to reflect that care throughout its operation. We will need qualified teachers and trainers.

 

Once established, we hope to have more qualified leaders—something that will be felt across the movement. A strong leader creates an atmosphere of inspiration and proper values, and a culture of spiritual care and empowerment. We want to try to recreate the mood of enthusiasm and commitment that typified much of the earlier days in ISKCON.

 

We are talking about creating a leadership academy which would be a kind of graduate-level institution. We want to train both spiritual leaders and managerial leaders, in other words both brahmanas and ksatriyas.

A challenge our committee faces is communicating this urgent need to the GBC body and the rest of ISKCON to get their full support. We need resources for this initiative and for this we have to elicit support from different sections of ISKCON.

 

When the conceptual stage is finished we will next plan the specifics—the facilities need, the staff, etc. We are not certain of the exact location of this “ISKCON Academy for Leadership”, but we are leaning towards having it in India for reasons including Srila Prabhupada’s desire and the availability of resources.

[Guruvani]

What Srila Prabhupada wanted was leaders of the world, not leaders of a defunct institution with a top-heavy bureaucracy.

 

What Srila Prabhupada wanted was for ISKCON to show the world how to live simply and cultivate spiritual culture.

 

ISKCON is just like any other energy suck parasite corperation on the face of the Earth.

 

If these people are concerned about leadership then they should think about showing the world how to live simply without total dependence on petroleum and nuclear energy.

 

If they can't demonstrate a spiritual society that is making a difference in the world, then what the Hell use is a bunch of "preachers" that are a part of all the evils that are destroying planet Earth?

 

As it is right now, ISKCON is just a part of the problem with the world.

If they can't show the world the solution to modern materialistic society, then why the Hell are they preaching?

 

Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to show the world how to live in farm villages and give a new direction away from the destructive ways of modern society.

 

They aren't doing anything except fighting over disciples so they can have somebody to foot the bill for their lavish lifestyles in comfortable modern buildings.

 

Preaching is showing by example.

ISKCON isn't preaching.

ISKCON is stagnating in a cesspool of modern evils.

[Guest guest]

if u can reach the enlightenment like that, then all humans would have achieved it, God is not in jungles it is in you, it is in all the poor around you, it is in all animals around you, by doing certain pakhands and karam kaands you can not get to the God?

[krsna]

 

What Srila Prabhupada wanted was leaders of the world, not leaders of a defunct institution with a top-heavy bureaucracy.

 

What Srila Prabhupada wanted was for ISKCON to show the world how to live simply and cultivate spiritual culture.

 

ISKCON is just like any other energy suck parasite corperation on the face of the Earth.

 

If these people are concerned about leadership then they should think about showing the world how to live simply without total dependence on petroleum and nuclear energy.

 

If they can't demonstrate a spiritual society that is making a difference in the world, then what the Hell use is a bunch of "preachers" that are a part of all the evils that are destroying planet Earth?

 

As it is right now, ISKCON is just a part of the problem with the world.

If they can't show the world the solution to modern materialistic society, then why the Hell are they preaching?

 

Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to show the world how to live in farm villages and give a new direction away from the destructive ways of modern society.

 

They aren't doing anything except fighting over disciples so they can have somebody to foot the bill for their lavish lifestyles in comfortable modern buildings.

 

Preaching is showing by example.

ISKCON isn't preaching.

ISKCON is stagnating in a cesspool of modern evils.

 

There are many interesting points in the following article:

 

Nescience of Science & Iskcon

 

 

BY: NAVA JAUVANA DASA

 

 

Jul 02, CANADA (SUN) — In an article recently posted on the Sun, "Science of the Soul?", the author, a mainstream journalist, takes us on a tour of contemporary science and scientists and reveals what Srila Prabhupada told us 35 years ago: that most scientists are fools and rascals.

 

 

There are many interesting points in the article, such as genetic evidence that not only humans, but animals and plants as well have symptoms of mind and even morality found in their genes. This marks a shift in a major paradigm that western philosophy and religion has held for centuries: that only man has a "mind" and a "soul."

 

 

But the thrust of the article shows that science, modern biology and chemistry in particular, is atheistic or at best, agnostic. The final quote of the article comes from a devout Roman Catholic biologist, who obviously cares more about his university privileges than the absolute truth. When lecturing on college campuses and asked by students what he can tell them as a scientist about the soul, he replies: "As a scientist, I have nothing to say about the soul. It's not a scientific idea."

 

 

Srila Prabhupada based his entire preaching presentation on the premise that Krishna consciousness is the science of self-realization, the science of the soul and the science of God. So where are the preachers, the sincere followers of Srila Prabhupada, who are presenting these concepts in an intelligent, scientific, cogent way? Is Iskcon producing any? I'm not aware of it, if they are. Are they explaining consciousness to scientists, or debating atheistic authors who mislead the public? Or are they are busy catering to the choir, and enjoying the privileges (just like the Roman Catholic biologist) of being high priests in a movement that has become a quasi-Hindu religious organization?

 

 

Bhakti Swarup Damodar Maharaj was a friend of mine since 1980. We met in San Francisco then, when he and Atreya Risi teamed up to form the BI and BF (Bhaktivedanta Institute and Bhaktivedanta Fellowship). He was a scientist and very much devoted to Prabhupada. He may have had his limitations as we all do, but over the years, he loyally and sincerely presented the concepts Prabhupada taught him, and he met with a select group of Nobel laureates and other semi-enlightened scientists to share Krishna conscious ideas with them. He tried his best with little or no help from the society. Now he is no more; less than a year after the GBC tried to remove him as Director of Bhaktivedanta Institute and threatened to expel him from their elitist organization (the GBC) for no good cause, he passed away last October.

 

 

Now who amongst the great sannyasi and GBC preachers have a dialogue with the scientists or debate with atheistic authors? Where are all the great preachers? Too busy building non-ecological temples in India? Too busy flying around the world to the next festival? Too busy collecting donations or blowing bubbles?

 

 

All of science's advances in mapping the genes and creating so-called synthetic life shake peoples' faith in the existence of the soul. Even for devotees it can be bewildering. But Srila Prabhupada based his entire preaching thesis on the anti-material principle that "life comes from life." He was ready to debate with anyone -- philosopher or scientist -- that life comes not from chemicals, but from consciousness, and that science can never, ever stop death. All post-dated checks for rascals and fools, he declared. So, tell me, who is delivering these essential truths now?

 

We can tolerate all the abuses and neglect against us, the godbrothers, over the past 30 years. But why have you, the leaders of Iskcon, not produced preachers who can debate the scientists and influence the dialogue on consciousness? We cannot tolerate that Srila Prabhupada's basic thesis is not being presented for the benefit of the entire world, who is in complete nescience about the soul. And instead of doing this, you have created a hierarchy of privilege in a wealthy quasi-Hindu religious organization. This is the nescience of Iskcon. No matter how nicely you think things are going, this is proof of your lack of love for our spiritual master.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Call me naive and gullible if you like, but the letter of Satsvarupa Das Goswami strikes me as being the words of a very sincere (if not yet fully-pure) Vaishnava.

 

 

What is totally obvious - he just cant understand how much back breaking suffering was inflicted upon so many devotees. His logic seems to just reach of how he feels - "for me it's ok, therefore in sum ISKCON is doing fine". This is clearly not the behaviour of a Vaishnava.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Wow!!! Wow! Wow!

 

Another bullseye for Mahaksa Prabhu!!

 

We have only so many breaths in these bodies. How many do we want to waste criticizing our siblings while we could be chanting?

 

Saw something recently (was it here?): wise, intelligent people discuss ideas, average people discuss current events, people with little imagination discuss people (of course, Sri Krishna and Sri Guru are not "people" in this sense).

 

 

Okay, a person is given a management position. He fails to manage properly. Does a subordinate still follow the manager?

 

We judge, with our feet. But there are two types of mundane devotion, and it is prevalent in the community of srila prabhupadas extended (and alone) disciples. Lust and anger. So, we follow and prop up someone who satisfies our devotional lust, our desire to belong and be recognized by management, regardless of their TALENT (or lack thereof) in managing. We call that lackey in another tongue, sycopant, toadie, not very good words.

 

On the other side of this coin is devotion by anger. We see a bunch of folks whose entire life is spent criticizing fallen, bad managers, embezzlers, black marketeers, white slavers, and out and out pervs. They always post the teachings of these jerks and spew their devotional anger for all to see. They see wet sores and land and suck and taste, and spread the disease, like flies.

 

Transcendence means sticking to the tattwa line, no deviation. Srila Prabhupadas movement is not a session of listing the names of non-vaisnavas and speaking of the activities of kali cela. So, a bunch of jerks are pretending, so. Who follows? Why bother trying to SAVE toadies. They obviously have the nectar they are anxious for, so they sit at the feet of insane people, hillbillies, Georgie Girls, LSD moguls, covert deep cover agents whose purpose is to take back the control a real devotee relinquishes by surrendering to a higher authority.

 

Satswarupa is a figure I knew way back then, when he was engaged in the service of our guru maharaja. I remember this service, Im not concerned with the karma he suffers due to the strength of forgetfulness of swarupa, something only caused by KRSNA himself. I worship the rememberance Krsna gives, I also worship the forgetfulness he causes.

 

Transcendence means no more duality of devotion by lust and devotion by anger. Focus. What does Srila Prabhupada teach???????

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Sita Sundari]

 

Dear Prabhu, I have seen so many "sweet, sincere, and happy" pictures of "devotees" for more than 35 years. 99% of them are gone. Many have proven to be criminals, pedophiles, thieves, rapists, molesters, and rogues.

 

I don't wish to discourage you, but pictures, "results," fame, charisma, shiny faces, teethy smiles, big kirtans, big "results," complicated "shastric" lectures, knowledge of scripture (inside and out), and numerous other fronts mean absolutely nothing - zero.

 

ISKCON is a revolving door. The problem is that devotees are trained to be actors. I was told this by the most respected devotee in the movement - here since 1966. He told me that he simply "acts" like a devotee, period.

 

 

At another section in this page there is a reference to false smiles and pretentious devotees. As far as I am aware we should not look at others faults in general. With regards to my Guru Maharaja, I should like to say that his smiles were like his nature devotional and sincere. He also maintained a deep devotion to his Guru Maharaja Srila Prabhupada, up untill his death and far beyond.

It appears that often so many senior disciples are lumped together and tarred with the same brush. Jayatirtha Maharaja was the first of the so called appointed Guru's to leave ISKCON. He underwent a difficult period after Srila Prabhupada left and maintained a pure link with his Guru Maharaja who guided him in his heart. In or out of ISKCON the programme was the same, devotional seva and Hari Nama.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So don't be so easily fooled by externals, for your own good.

 

Real devotion is hidden deep within the heart and is rarely observed by smiley faces, temporary (youthful) effulgence, big big results, blah-blah-blah lectures, silk dhotis, money, traveling here and there on big "preaching" missions, prestige, adoration, rubber stamp appoval, big titles, false humility, credit cards, living secretly on mom and dad's inheritance or money transfers, popularity, fancy writing skills, "the big walk,' snout in the air, over attachment to reciting slokas for everything - including tying one's shoes laces, servants, sycophants. separate quarters (where they feast in opulence on gold plates), first-class travel, bank accounts, and most of all --a noticable lack of mentioning one's eternal debt to Srila Prabhupada.

 

Think about it. This is not a challenge. Think what it really means to love Srila Prabhupada, not one's self and one's puny achievements in comparison (of which there is NO comparison whatsoever).

 

P.S. THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE TO YOU, DEAR PRABHU, NOR TO YOUR DEVOTIONAL ATTITUDE. YOU'RE VERY SINCERE, NO DOUBT. MY ONLY REQUEST IS TOO THINK BACK TO THE DAYS OF RAMESWAR, BHAGAVAN, HARIKESA, BALI MARDAN, SUBAL, JAYATIRTHA, JAGADISA, etc. -- all "SMILEY" devotees, some of who now HATE (cringe) Srila Prabhupada and have said so on public television for millions to see.

 

So, smiles are a dime a dozen, don't you think?

[Sita Sundari]

Hare Krsna,

So nice to read that Murali Mohan Das, has a treasured memory of Jayatirtha Prabhu and is pure and honest enough to share that with every one. The truth has a strange way of finding the light. I also had the deepest spiritual realisations in the magical association of Jayatirtha Prabhu, but that is to be expected as he is my Guru Maharaja, life after life. He took a grave risk of introducing sacrament to some of his disciples, all along he had seen what was possible for a radical cure and quantum leap for the evolution of mankind. Hari Nama is the unadulterated spiritual substrata of all live, it is a true contact high and eternally purifying. The sacrament is just a small but significant drop of causeless mercy to assist the deprived, access to that innate realm of spontaneous service to Sri Sri Radha Govinda. Communion with the holy name in a profound way, is such a tonic for the weary soul in this dark reign which has so mercifully been lightened by his divine grace Srila Prabhupada. The blessed sacrament is ONLY to be employed in the service of Hari Nama and by those who have exhausted their desires for material life. It is the underlying force of human evolution through out history and is found in all cultures, tribal home lands and societies in ancient history.

[VibhutiGanesh]

Dear Krsna ji,

 

Thanks for reproducing the article on Nescience of Science & Iskcon -BY: NAVA JAUVANA DASA

I particularly liked the questions -

______________

 

"Where are all the great preachers? Too busy building non-ecological temples in India? Too busy flying around the world to the next festival? Too busy collecting donations or blowing bubbles?"

_______________

 

I think, these are the questions, most pertinent to the CEOs (I call them CEOs because they work in businessmanship manner) - the present chiefs/mahants/priests who have suceeded great enlightened souls like Srila Prabhupada. This is the problem associated with institutionalization process. I find, most of them are engaged in the activities included in the above questions. I heard that Sri J Krishnamurti disintegrated his Ashram in Norway only to discourage the menace of followers after his death.