Devotion Contaminated by Reason?

[Guruvani]

 

I don't believe these are the words of Srila Prabhupada.

I don't have a complete Vedabase to check it, but I have never heard Srila Prabhupada used the word "mushroomed" or "their illegitimate fold" etc. etc.

These words don't smack of Srila Prabhupada.

It sounds like a forgery to me.

That book was published in 1992 and was never approved by Srila Prabhupada.

I don't accept those words as the actual words of Srila Prabhupada.

It doesn't sound like any style of language that I have ever heard from Srila Prabhupada.

Probably a BBT forgery.

If they are the actual words of Srila Prabhupada, I would think that it would something that he personally wrote as opposed to most of his books which were dictated with dictaphone and transcribed by editors.

 

Maybe his writing is a little different flavor than his dictation?

[Guest guest]

 

the previous author didn't give credits to the author of that piece, whom was Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

In the future, please give proper credit to the acharyas when you are posting their words.

Otherwise, we might think you are wanting to get credit for these words yourself.

 

 

How do you know Srila Sridhar Maharaja said this?

[Guruvani]

 

How do you know Srila Sridhar Maharaja said this?

 

I have listened to hundreds of hours of his tapes and read all his books.

 

I know Sridhar Maharaja when I hear him.

[Guruvani]

 

He says the moon is revolving around the earth and that the sun is more distant.

 

Yes, but Madhvacarya, Vishvanatha Cakravarti and many great astrologer Vaishnavas have accepted the Vedic version that the Moon is further than the Sun.

So, please don't dump on Srila Prabhupada for staying true to the purvaacharyas and the Bhagavat.

He didn't manufacture the Vedic conclusion that the Moon is further than the Sun. It is the Vedic version.

[bhattathiri]

The ancient Hindu philosophy of keepiing mind and body for the well being, has entered the managerial, medical and judicial domain of the world. Today it has found its place as an alternative to the theory of modern management and also as a means to bring back the right path of peace and prosperity for the human beings. Let me bow to Indian Maharishi Veda Vysa with folded hands who helped in removing the impurities of the mind through his writings on Vedas, impurities of speech through his writings on puranas, and impurities of body through his writings on other sacred texts.

[Guest guest]

 

Yes, but Madhvacarya, Vishvanatha Cakravarti and many great astrologer Vaishnavas have accepted the Vedic version that the Moon is further than the Sun.

 

Madhava taught Radha and gopis were nothing more than apsaras, you pick and choose what suits your arguments, please be consistent.

 

Vishvanatha ok, however you should show the reference.

 

Finally can you show names of TWO astrologer Vaishnavas who accepted moon further than sun..?

 

namaskaram

[Guruvani]

 

Madhava taught Radha and gopis were nothing more than apsaras,

 

Can you prove that with a proper Sanskrit verse and shastric reference?

 

I didn't think so.

 

So much for your third-hand hearsay.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Yes, in this thread, we have many fine examples of devotion contaminated with reason.

 

This post is unique in that it expresses reason uncontaminated by devotion

[Guruvani]

 

Finally can you show names of TWO astrologer Vaishnavas who accepted moon further than sun..?

 

namaskaram

 

Oh, did I forget to mention that the Bhagavatam says that the Moon is further than th Sun and therefore Sukadeva and Vyasadeva as well as Suta Goswami all accepted the Vedic version that the Moon is further than the Sun.

 

So, now you can abuse them as well, because you can't understand the subtle aspects of the universal form.

[Guest guest]

Are your showing off your lack of knowledge of dvaita doctrine? I must say your doing a good job.

 

Many Gaudiyas themselves and not just scholars know that Madhava did not accept Radha or the Gopis, thus there is no Radha on the altars in Madhava tradition, nor did he accept the rasa-panchadhayaya section of Srimad Bhagavatam, which is sacred to Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

 

namaskaram

[Guruvani]

 

Madhvācārya quotes the following verses from the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa:

 

yathā bhāgavate tūktaḿ

bhauvanaḿ kośa-lakṣaṇam

tasyāvirodhato yojyam

anya-granthāntare sthitam

maṇḍode puraṇaḿ caiva

vyatyāsaḿ kṣīra-sāgare

rāhu-soma-ravīṇāḿ ca

maṇḍalād dvi-guṇoktitām

vinaiva sarvam unneyaḿ

yojanābhedato 'tra tu

 

It appears from these verses that aside from the sun and moon, there is an invisible planet called Rāhu. The movements of Rāhu cause both solar and lunar eclipses. We suggest that the modern expeditions attempting to reach the moon are mistakenly going to Rāhu.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada faithfully adhered to the conclusions of Madhvacarya as given in this Sanskrit sloka by Madhvacarya that indicates that the Moon is beyond the Sun.

 

So, maybe you wanna bad mouth Madhvacharya for agreeing that the Moon is further than the Sun, but he is simply going by the Vedic version himself (Brahmanda Purana).

[Guruvani]

 

Are your showing off your lack of knowledge of dvaita doctrine? I must say your doing a good job.

 

Many Gaudiyas themselves and not just scholars know that Madhava did not accept Radha or the Gopis, thus there is no Radha on the altars in Madhava tradition, nor did he accept the rasa-panchadhayaya section of Srimad Bhagavatam, which is sacred to Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

 

namaskaram

 

your hearsay opinions are not admissable as evidence in a discussion based on shastra and the Vedas.

 

if you can't support your claims with proper Sanskrit verses from shastra, then your claims means NOTHING.

[Guest guest]

Do you even know what the rasa-panchadhayaya section of Srimad Bhagavatam is?

[Guest guest]

Heresay is what you don't agree with Guruvani...

[Guruvani]

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 5.22.8

 

evaḿ candramā arka-gabhastibhya upariṣṭāl lakṣa-yojanata upalabhyamāno 'rkasya saḿvatsara-bhuktiḿ pakṣābhyāḿ māsa-bhuktiḿ sapādarkṣābhyāḿ dinenaiva pakṣa-bhuktim agracārī drutatara-gamano bhuńkte

 

SYNONYMS

evam — thus; candramā — the moon; arka-gabhastibhyaḥ — from the rays of the sunshine; upariṣṭāt — above; lakṣa-yojanataḥ — by a measurement of 100,000 yojanas; upalabhyamānaḥ — being situated; arkasya — of the sun globe; saḿvatsara-bhuktim — the passage of one year of enjoyment; pakṣābhyām — by two fortnights; māsa-bhuktim — the passage of one month; sapāda-ṛkṣābhyām — by two and a quarter days; dinena — by a day; eva — only; pakṣa-bhuktim — the passage of a fortnight; agracārī — moving impetuously; druta-tara-gamanaḥ — passing more speedily; bhuńkte — passes through.

 

 

TRANSLATION

Above the rays of the sunshine by a distance of 100,000 yojanas [800,000 miles] is the moon, which travels at a speed faster than that of the sun. In two lunar fortnights the moon travels through the equivalent of a saḿvatsara of the sun, in two and a quarter days it passes through a month of the sun, and in one day it passes through a fortnight of the sun.

 

 

 

 

 

This means that Vyasadeva and Sukadeva and Suta Goswami all taught that the Moon is further than the Sun.

 

 

 

So, go ahead and "slam" the rishis.

[Guruvani]

 

Do you even know what the rasa-panchadhayaya section of Srimad Bhagavatam is?

 

I don't have time to play your games.

You aren't saying anything useful to defeat my arguments.

You are just talking silly like a little girl.

[Guest guest]

You don't have to know sanskrit to know that Madhava or his followers do not exalt and accept Radha or the Gopis like Gauidiya vaishnavas do, it's common knowledge, even outside that line, even riksha walas in Udipi know that, LOL

 

Go to any Madhava temple look at their altars, you need to get out more!

 

You act like your opinion is the bottom line on everything, sorry it's not, and guess what? there are some here a lot more senior than yourself in these matters friend.

[Guest guest]

Oh come on now don't start throwing insults...

 

do you know what the rasa-panchadhayaya section of SB is or not..?

 

and what about this two Vaishnava astrologers names you were supposed to cough up.. (ahem ahem) LOL

[Guest guest]

Hurry now copy and paste and google it...

 

LOL

[Guruvani]

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 5.24.2

 

yad adas taraṇer maṇḍalaḿ pratapatas tad vistarato yojanāyutam ācakṣate dvādaśa-sahasraḿ somasya trayodaśa-sahasraḿ rāhor yaḥ parvaṇi tad-vyavadhāna-kṛd vairānubandhaḥ sūryā-candramasāv abhidhāvati

 

SYNONYMS

yat — which; adaḥ — that; taraṇeḥ — of the sun; maṇḍalam — globe; pratapataḥ — which is always distributing heat; tat — that; vistarataḥ — in terms of width; yojana — a distance of eight miles; ayutam — ten thousand; ācakṣate — they estimate; dvādaśa-sahasram — 20,000 yojanas (160,000 miles); somasya — of the moon; trayodaśa — thirty; sahasram — one thousand; rāhoḥ — of the planet Rāhu; yaḥ — which; parvaṇi — on occasion; tat-vyavadhāna-kṛt — who created an obstruction to the sun and moon at the time of the distribution of nectar; vaira-anubandhaḥ — whose intentions are inimical; sūryā — the sun; candramasau — and the moon; abhidhāvati — runs after them on the full-moon night and the dark-moon day.

 

 

TRANSLATION

The sun globe, which is a source of heat, extends for 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles]. The moon extends for 20,000 yojanas [160,000 miles], and Rāhu extends for 30,000 yojanas [240,000 miles]. Formerly, when nectar was being distributed, Rāhu tried to create dissension between the sun and moon by interposing himself between them. Rāhu is inimical toward both the sun and the moon, and therefore he always tries to cover the sunshine and moonshine on the dark-moon day and full-moon night.

 

 

PURPORT

As stated herein, the sun extends for 10,000 yojanas, and the moon extends for twice that, or 20,000 yojanas. The word dvādaśa should be understood to mean twice as much as ten, or twenty. In the opinion of Vijayadhvaja, the extent of Rāhu should be twice that of the moon, or text of the Bhāgavatam, Vijayadhvaja cites the following quotation concerning Rāhu; rāhu-soma-ravīṇāḿ tu maṇḍalā dvi-guṇoktitām. This means that Rāhu is twice as large as the moon, which is twice as large as the sun. This is the conclusion of the commentator Vijayadhvaja.

 

 

Here again the rishis and Acharya Vijayatirtha conclude that the Moon is further than the Sun and twice as big.

Srila Prabhupada didn't manufacture the idea.

[Guruvani]

 

Hurry now copy and paste and google it...

 

LOL

actually I am going to ignore you because you post anonymously and don't present any shastra praman to validate your statements.

 

get real or get lost.

 

you are just a ghost haunting the topic at this point.

[Guest guest]

Anyone who doesn't agree with your view point is a silly girl or crazy huh? Sure!

 

You may not think so, but you really come off as a very rude intolerant, wanting to be the center of attention here it's obvious.

 

And your avoiding MY questions speaks for itself, you don't know as much as you would like to impress on everyone here.

 

Your fanatical attitude is what should be ignored.

 

 

theist was right

[Guruvani]

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 8.11.5

 

ārurukṣanti māyābhir

utsisṛpsanti ye divam

tān dasyūn vidhunomy ajñān

pūrvasmāc ca padād adhaḥ

 

SYNONYMS

ārurukṣanti — persons who desire to come to the upper planetary systems; māyābhiḥ — by so-called mystic power or material advancement of science; utsisṛpsanti — or want to be liberated by such false attempts; ye — such persons who; divam — the higher planetary system known as Svargaloka; tān — such rogues and ruffians; dasyūn — such thieves; vidhunomi — I force to go down; ajñān — rascals; pūrvasmāt — previous; ca — also; padāt — from the position; adhaḥ — downward.

 

 

TRANSLATION

Those fools and rascals who want to ascend to the upper planetary system by mystic power or mechanical means, or who endeavor to cross even the upper planets and achieve the spiritual world or liberation, I cause to be sent to the lowest region of the universe.

 

 

PURPORT

There are undoubtedly different planetary systems for different persons. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā (14.18), ūrdhvaḿ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ: persons in the mode of goodness can go to the upper planets. Those in the modes of darkness and passion, however, are not allowed to enter the higher planets. The word divam refers to the higher planetary system known as Svargaloka. Indra, King of the higher planetary system, has the power to push down any conditioned soul attempting to go from the lower to the higher planets without proper qualifications. The modern attempt to go to the moon is also an attempt by inferior men to go to Svargaloka by artificial, mechanical means. This attempt cannot be successful. From this statement of Indra it appears that anyone attempting to go to the higher planetary systems by mechanical means, which are here called māyā, is condemned to go the hellish planets in the lower portion of the universe. To go to the higher planetary system, one needs sufficient good qualities. A sinful person situated in the mode of ignorance and addicted to drinking, meat-eating and illicit sex will never enter the higher planets by mechanical means.

 

As evidenced in the verse, there is a mystical element to the universe.

Lord Indra is here saying that he uses his mystic powers against anyone who attempt to attain the Moon through mystic powers or mechanical space crafts.

 

When we are dealing with the mystic powers of one of the most powerful devatas in the universe, we are obviously at a disadvantage.

 

The mystic powers of Lord Indra are beyond our scientific abilities here on Earth. Needless to say, Earth scientists will never defeat the mystic illusions of Lord Indra.

[Guruvani]

Obviously, Sukadeva was beyond the mystic illusions of Lord Indra and he perceived the universe differently than tiny Earth scientists with their telescopes staring into a gross superficial aspect of the universe.

 

Just like worms in the colon of a person, we can't understand the personal feature and personal nature of the universe. Worms in the bowels of illusion can never understand the mystic nature of this universe. There is a mystical aspect of this universe that we cannot understand with our blunt conditioned senses.

[Guruvani]

Even magicians like Chris Angel can make elephants disappear, get run over by a 10 ton roller and float above the tallest building in Los Vegas.

 

How much more are we under the mystical spell of Lord Indra?

Common people cannot understand how Chris Angel can do magic tricks of illusions that no magician has ever performed.

 

How much more are Earthlings under the magic illusions of the great devatas who are the Lords of this universe?