Laulyam Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 What was Srila Prabhupada's Answer? BY: BHAGAVAT DAS (ACBSP) Jun 29, USA (SUN) — I read Mahavidya dasa’s “ Different Strokes for Different Folks ”. He poses the following question to the readers: ”As I have said before... at the time of my death, which is for certain, when I am held accountable for all that I have or have not done, If I am asked by His Divine Grace ...... Did you not care for My Iskcon society? What steps did you take to rectify the situation? What will I answer to Srila Prabhupada?” So supposing we change the time, place, and persons in this scenario. Now we have our Srila Prabhupada answering his Srila Prabhupada shortly after the time of his departure from this world. Of course this is really stretching it here, because Srila Prabhupada told us more than once that he was always with his guru maharaja, which would mean that he was consulting him as he would consult Krsna whom he was also in constant contact with. However for poetic license and continuity of cerebral concept I humbly request the readers to bear with me. Thanks! At the time of Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance from his manifest pastimes, When Srila Saraswati Thakura held our Srila Prabhupada accountable for all that He had or had not done, When Srila Saraswati Thakura asked His Divine Grace ...... Did you not care for My Gaudiya Matha society? What steps did you take to rectify the situation? What do you think Srila Prabhupada gave as His answer?” Would his reply be based on what service He had accomplished? Would He say something like the following perhaps? I started the Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti with my god brother, one of your dear and obedient disciples Srila Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Maharaja, which eventually produced over 60 temple’s and Matha’s in India distributing thousands of literatures, recruiting the thousands of disciples you sent them, including one disciple Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja who will in the future preach all over the world and translate and print so many Gaudiya Vaishnava Literatures while giving shelter and siksha to the disciples you sent me. I associated with and supported my dear god brother and another of your dear disciples Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Maharaja, who wrote and translated so many books and who in the future will give shelter and siksha to the disciples you sent me. I started a world wide preaching society called ISKCON which helped to fulfill the prophecies of Lord Caitanya and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura by opening up over 108 temples all over the world, I translated into English and published so many volumes of Gaudiya Vaishnava Literature and distributed millions of books, I recruited the thousands of disciples you sent me, some of whom will become world wide preachers and authors in their own right and continue to expand the mission, like Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja, and Srila Bhakti Swarupa Damodara Maharaja. I opened prasadam restaurants to convert the meat eaters and distributed prasadam to millions of jivas, l opened transcendental schools for the spiritually bereft children, l performed Rathayatra Festivals in every major city of the world, l established Deity Worship all over the world, I established a transcendental artists co-operative that created hundreds of windows to the spiritual world in the form of paintings and dioramas, I established farms, made movies, tapes, and on and on. After Srila Prabhupada gave this report do any of the readers think that Srila Saraswati Thakura was disappointed in our Srila Prabhupada’s performance because he did not accomplish these things within the confines of the Gaudiya Matha that was started by Srila Saraswati Thakura? Opening temples, translating/writing and publishing books, distributing those books and the books of your spiritual master, recruiting new devotees, distributing prasadam, holding spiritual festivals, and most of all providing the jivas with the association of devotees, most especially pure devotees who are on the uttama adhikary platform but are acting on the level of a Madhyam Uttama for preaching, these are the activities one who is satisfying the desires of his Guru Maharaja carrying on the preaching mission. Just as important is the culture of love and affection amongst devotees, God-brother’s and God-sister’s, the protection of women, children, the diseased, and the elderly. As disciples of Srila Prabhupada if we find ourselves unable to work within the framework of an institution that consistently refuses to correct itself by placing the institution ahead of the siddhanta and therefore compromising the siddhanta of the parampara, that has obfuscated the truth about Srila Prabhupada’s actual instructions on how to manage the society, has consistently protected and harbored abusers of women and children while neglecting the victims, and has created a false system of allegiance to those leaders who perpetrate these acts, then is it worth the energy to try and rectify that organization or should we expend that energy directly in preaching activities for the benefit of the fallen conditioned souls. Srila Prabhupada saw many of the same problems with the Gaudiya Matha and as a result he decided to band together with those god brothers who were like minded in wanting to follow the exact instructions of their guru maharaja and begin a new society that would reflect the teachings of his guru maharaja as it is. Hence he established the Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti and later the League of Devotees and even though the League of Devotees failed he came to the USA and established ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada taught us to separately incorporate each individual temple and that the temple president should manage his own affairs with the oversight of the GBC but never gave them authority to unnecessarily meddle in the day to day operations, which was the job of the temple president. When the GBC overstepped their bounds on a couple of occasions Srila Prabhupada dismissed them and told the temple presidents to manage their own affairs without them. So since it is obvious that the GBC is no longer following the original instructions of the Founder Acharya, then why do the temple presidents still take direction from them? Why don’t they just manage their own affairs as Srila Prabhupada taught them and ignore the GBC until it is again in line with the DOM as established by the Founder Acharya? You already have the precedence from Srila Prabhupada that when the GBC did not follow His instructions he would disband them and tell the temple presidents to manage themselves. SO GO AHEAD AND DO IT! Stop wasting time on trying to rectify those who refuse to follow the orders and go out and preach. Open your own temples and preaching centers, make devotees, distribute the original unedited books, distribute prasadam, and preach. Call yourselves ISKCON and when they challenge you in court make them prove that they have the right to control your preaching activities. We are not getting any younger and time is running out on our ability to serve in this capacity. Why waste valuable time and energy in trying to rectify those who have no interest in being rectified. When we were young we would go to a city all by ourselves and open a preaching center. We usually had no money and often hitch hiked to the prospective city. We have a lot more assets now. Most of the old devotees have cars, and computers and some money saved or equity in a home that we can cash in on. Find a place you would like to open up a preaching center with some like-minded god brothers and god sisters and GO PREACH! When you have opened enough preaching centers then either they will have to work with you or you can organize all the independent centers as another society. Just follow Srila Prabhupada’s order and go and preach. You do not need their permission or even their co-operation. You have the order just like Srila Prabhupada had and you have the example of setting up independently incorporated preaching centers as Srila Prabhupada did, so just PREACH! Just consider the GBC disbanded because they failed to follow Srila Prabhupada’s DOM and then manage your own affairs and PREACH! Srila Prabhupada’s allegiance was to the order of His Guru not the Gaudiya Matha. Our allegiance should also be to the order of Srila Prabhupada to preach and not to the society which disobeys his orders with impunity! So when you face Srila Prabhupada on judgment day and when He asks you what you have done for Him you can say: I fought and argued with all my god brothers and god sisters to try and make them follow your orders and instructions in the DOM but they just would not do it they just refused to co-operate. So I spent most of my life after you left, working like a dog for some cretin boss in a dead end job trying to maintain my family and doing little or no spiritual activities waiting for ISKCON to follow your instructions so I could preach with them again. OR YOU COULD SAY THIS TO SRILA PRABHUPADA: I followed your example Srila Prabhupada I did not waste my time with those who were not following your orders I just went out and PREACHED! And this is how many books I distributed, and how many devotees I made, and how much prasadam I distributed, etc, etc. SO what would you like to tell Srila Prabhupada when you meet him; number one or number two? I know what I want to say. I have found some god brothers and god sisters I want to work with. I am going out to PREACH! See you in the field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 CANAKYA PANDITA Three things go to a rapid destruction: Trees on the bank of a river, a woman in the house of man other than her husband and Kings without Counselors = GBC without Brahmanas. Go out and preach - preaching means one thing only, to rectify Prabhupada's movement. In every second purport of SB, CC, BG you find Prabhupada saying, "this ISKCON movement is a purely transcendental movement meant to elevate humanity to the state of pure devotional service". Since this is written within the books we are supposed to distribute for the next ten thousand years, how someone can think of opening his own mission? And telling people, this is not right what is stated within the books, ISKCON doesnt follow Prabhupada anymore. Pretty much confusing It is rather the same like modern scientists teaching our children at school, everything started from a big explosion but we the parents are too dull to expose this rascal atheism and let our kids grow up uncommented in doggish atheism. The same with ISKCON, more Western Vaishnavas live outside of ISKCON than those within the movement, 99% of the devotees agree that the GBC doesnt follow Prabhupada's guidelines and even within ISKCON a great number of devotees also agree that the GBC doesnt follow, but still people cant unite to remove the present GBC and elect a new GBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Why preach? So we can dupe some poor unsuspecting souls into getting caught up in the ISKCON fiasco. I say DON"T PREACH! If you can't provide for people to have a shelter and a sanctuary where they can actualize a life of Krishna consciousness, then better not to preach and bring new people into the madness. Don't preach. Preaching is bad. Develop a place where people can actually live a life of Krishna consciousness first, then go preach. Preaching to people without offering them an alternative lifestyle in Krishna consciousness is in my opinion cheating. Srila Prabhupada didn't just "preach". He offered his followers a chance to get out of secular society and live a devotional life. The GBC has robbed the vast majority of devotees of that opportunity. Unless and until we can create an alternative to the defunct ISKCON and actually provide people a chance to actually live a life of Krishna consciousness, then preaching is just something we do to hyperventilate and get high off of our own hot air. Preach? Don't preach....... teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Why preach?So we can dupe some poor unsuspecting souls into getting caught up in the ISKCON fiasco. I say DON"T PREACH! If you can't provide for people to have a shelter and a sanctuary where they can actualize a life of Krishna consciousness, then better not to preach and bring new people into the madness. Don't preach. Preaching is bad. Develop a place where people can actually live a life of Krishna consciousness first, then go preach. Preaching to people without offering them an alternative lifestyle in Krishna consciousness is in my opinion cheating. Srila Prabhupada didn't just "preach". He offered his followers a chance to get out of secular society and live a devotional life. The GBC has robbed the vast majority of devotees of that opportunity. Unless and until we can create an alternative to the defunct ISKCON and actually provide people a chance to actually live a life of Krishna consciousness, then preaching is just something we do to hyperventilate and get high off of our own hot air. Preach? Don't preach....... teach. That is my biggest problem, I just can't seem to preach to anyone and I guess that makes me not a devotee although deep down inside I know I have respect for Krishna Consciousness. The best I seem to be able to do is be sympathetic to the Krishna Consciousness Movement but when it comes to trying to go around and convince people that Krishna Consciousness is the greatest philosophy I can't think of anything more horrible or frustrating. In addition to that when I analyze things I just don't see this philosophy as becoming a dominant philosophy in the world anytime soon unless Krishna actually appeared, a lot of asuras were removed from their positions or something miraculous like that. Prabhupada did a superhuman thing and still most of the people I know think of Krishna Consciousness as either the work of the devil or simply as a strange cult and it seems there is not much I could do or say that would change that. So I don't know what to tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahak Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 If ya got friends, be a bit covert and subtly injecxt what you have come to realize into normaql everyday conversation. I used to preach, when I had my own disciples, but then they became as advanced as myself, and I couldnt very well send them to hrdayananda, because I didnt think he was even up to my level. Why send the blind downhill. Do the4 be4st ya can for them, make it so the4y have books, get them attacfhed to chanting (if ya play music, this is very simple, because jammin is better with easy words, and nothing is more simple than putting the consensus favorite melody to harinama). Always have food ya offered to krsna to give to others. And dont worry. The flaw of false gurus is that they think others come because of them. But Srila Prabhupada was not such a symbol of arrogance, he always knew2 that those who were sent to him were sent by God, not because he went out and gathered them. If someone stumbles onto ya in a similar way, and ya give em a little of WHAT YOU HAVE (key words here), its because Krsna decided that you are the guru who introduces another (the one who is with you now) to him. Success and failure are his, not yours, so just give what you have been given, dont hoard. In other words, hear this song, and tell me what ya think of the proposal contained in the lyrics: <CENTER>All, c-1993-mahaksadasa </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>one sure way to be pleasing to your teacher learn all the lessons, then pass them along bring your light into the darkest of caverns all who have eyes will see what is going on </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>the greatest musician taught you to play all who have voices will want to sing along the greatest of scholars gave you the words all who have ears will surely hear your song </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>after hearing philosophy and putting it to the test all who have feeling will win this holy war when the gift of pure love is placed at one's disposal all who have heart will never cry any more </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>if you ploclaim and sing the ballad of your master all who have minds will know what this life is for don't hold back now, not after what you have been given all of the world is needy and at your front door </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER> Hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa PS, yeah, dont preach, let the christian demons do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 anyway, Bhagavat das is groupie of Narayana Maharaja, so what he is preaching is bad medicine for the movement of Srila Prabhupada as far as I am concerned. When I heard Narayana Maharaja was preaching that the disciples of Srila Prabhupada who got initiated by tape and ritviks were not really initiated and that they needed another proper initiation (from who else?), I wrote him off as an enemy of ISKCON and the movement of Srila Prabhupada and nothing has changed since then. Narayana Maharaja has a place in the universe, but as far as I am concerned it is not with ISKCON or the the followers of Srila Prabhupada. So, what is Bhagavat das "preaching"? His preaching is poison as far as I am concerned and if he wants to serve Srila Prabhupada he needs to just go back to Bhuvanesvara and make life members. That was what Srila Prabhupada ordered him to do as his life's mission. So, he should go do that instead of writing articles for the SamparadayaSun.com website and preaching the gopi-bhava, rasika acharya cult of Narayana Maharaja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti-Fan Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 So, he should go do that instead of writing articles for the SamparadayaSun.com website and preaching the gopi-bhava, rasika acharya cult of Narayana Maharaja. The opinion of the Sahajiya Babajis is that Narayana Maharaja's preaching is not really rasik but rather only giving the rasik ideal. Yet this is or perhaps was at one time Narayana Maharaja's angle in his preaching. Now Narayana Maharaja generally preaches about Praladha Maharaja or the tattvic sections of the Bhagavatam because he has seen that his followers are not so advanced. So critics like Guruvani are responding to outdated propaganda with a wall of propaganda so that no true dialog or exchange of views can take place, which I assume is what they want. This is the technique used on Pada that was actually learned from Sulocana who was a left wing Maoist before coming to ISKCON. The Chinese Communists learned this from the Soviet Communists and perfected the "big lie technique". The theory goes that if you repeat anything even if its untrue enough then people will gradually accept it. For instance the idea that all ISKCON gurus are pedophiles or at least homosexuals. Instead of looking at the fact that persons with deep seeding sexual problems often "hide out" in a celibate monastic order in many religious paths we are propagandized that the GBC authorized gurus are part of some sinister homosexual conspiracy. The same thing becomes true with "sahajiya allegations" which come when one speaks the word "rasik" too often (a matter of degrees). From a reactionary viewpoint the word rasik, although used by Sukadeva Goswami himself, opens the speaker to being charged a sahajiya. One must also consider that the concept of sahajiyaism (really prakrta sahajiyaism) implies a confusion of mundane sexuality with what Prabhupada called "spiritual sex-life". Srila Prabhupada was not against gopi bhava per se, whether you believe that he was in gopa or gopi bhava in his own heart of hearts. But he certainly didn't want immature devotees delving into an area where they would confuse the divine with the profane. So isn't this the issue? But instead of uniting and preaching or teaching others to avoid confusing the mundane sex attraction with the highest rasa, we'll just sit around and slander an acarya and his followers as a matter of our own sport. It's a very sad and sick state of offers, but I suppose that Guruvani can justify doing it because others do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 we'll just sit around and slander an acarya and his followers as a matter of our own sport. It's a very sad and sick state of offers, but I suppose that Guruvani can justify doing it because others do the same thing. So, in your typical crude fashion you like to say that the inner feelings of those who don't follow your line of thinking do it for "sport". Well, then maybe your sport and the sport of Narayana Maharaja is destroying the faith of ISKCON devotees who were initiated according to the system authorized by Srila Prabhupada? Yamaraja is waiting for all of you with open arms. Sulocana was a martyr. You are just a smart punk with a "sad" guru. I am not in this for sport. (locked and loaded) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti-Fan Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Sulocana was a martyr. In a strange sense that may be true but he also blasphemed Sridhar Maharaja, blamed him for the Eleven Guru Fiasco, and threatened his followers in Califorinia. Are you aware of this? Yes Sulocana was a martyr but he had also transposed a type of anti-ISKCON guru fervor onto Vaisnava humility. I can't say that I wouldn't have gone over the edge if Kirtanananda would have turned my wife against me and married her to another man. But Sulocana was over the edge and the clear evidence of this was his hatred for Sridhar Maharaja. He was a martyr for his own personal Jihad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 In a strange sense that may be true but he also blasphemed Sridhar Maharaja, blamed him for the Eleven Guru Fiasco, and threatened his followers in Califorinia. Are you aware of this? Yes Sulocana was a martyr but he had also transposed a type of anti-ISKCON guru fervor onto Vaisnava humility. I can't say that I wouldn't have gone over the edge if Kirtanananda would have turned my wife against me and married her to another man. But Sulocana was over the edge and the clear evidence of this was his hatred for Sridhar Maharaja. He was a martyr for his own personal Jihad. sulocan was a puppy dog, he wouldn't hurt a flea. I knew Sulocana. Did you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti-Fan Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 sulocan was a puppy dog, he wouldn't hurt a flea. I knew Sulocana. Did you? I knew him in New Virginia. The main point is that he drew his negative gaze onto Sridhar Maharaja and was really the first in a line of many to blame him for the Zonal Acarya System. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 I knew him in New Virginia. The main point is that he drew his negative gaze onto Sridhar Maharaja and was really the first in a line of many to blame him for the Zonal Acarya System. it's a damn shame that Sridhar Maharaja allowed himself to be sucked into the zonal guru crap. unfortunately, there was a price to pay for being so naive. does that mean that Sulocan was wrong? Srila Prabhupada never appointed any zonal acharyas. Its too bad that Sridhar Maharaja believed the lies. We can't blame Sulocan for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti-Fan Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 it's a damn shame that Sridhar Maharaja allowed himself to be sucked into the zonal guru crap.unfortunately, there was a price to pay for being so naive. does that mean that Sulocan was wrong? Naive may really be "a backward pushing man". Even though Sridhar Maharaja accepted them at first as gurus, he never wanted them to sit on big Vyasasanas in Prabhupada's temples and warned them against this. He also warned them against accepting worship of the godbrothers or requiring it. He also warned repeatedly against any form of imitation. These were the most outrageous trappings of the Eleven. So in a very big sense Sulocana was wrong. He could not recognize a saint and could not refrain from abusing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Naive may really be "a backward pushing man". Even though Sridhar Maharaja accepted them at first as gurus, he never wanted them to sit on big Vyasasanas in Prabhupada's temples and warned them against this. He also warned them against accepting worship of the godbrothers or requiring it. He also warned repeatedly against any form of imitation. These were the most outrageous trappings of the Eleven. So in a very big sense Sulocana was wrong. He could not recognize a saint and could not refrain from abusing him. I am not ignorant of the situation. Just today I read through the whole meeting the big 11 had with Sridhar Maharaja to trick him into supporting their evil scheme. Here it is for anyone interested to read it for themselves. http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/gbc/78_ssm_gbc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 He could not recognize a saint and could not refrain from abusing him. Well, if you want to get technical, we could say that supporting the zonal guru scam was in itself an abuse of so many ISKCON devotees. so, lets not go there. Sridhar Maharaja came out of samadhi to deal with some political rascals and the result was not very good. I don't blame Sridhar Maharaja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti-Fan Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Sridhar Maharaja came out of samadhi to deal with some political rascals and the result was not very good. Agreement here, well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.