Rahu chasing the Moon... literal or allegorical? Irrelevant!

[theist]

Sometimes devotees spend excessive time and energy on insisting allegories are the literal scientific truth. They most often throw their explanations up against modern science claiming the stupid scientists just can't see the deep mystical truth of the matter that explains why the allegory is not an allegory.

 

Who benefits from this? No one. Who is harmed? Those that come away thinking the Hare Krsna's are simple minded sentimentalists who just believe in some old myths.

 

Better to engage these folks in discussing the essence of Srimad Bhagavatam and not bothering with the myths allegories and assorted odd statements found in the SB.

 

That is Srila Prabhupada's viewpoint as expressed below in this letter excerpt to Krsnadas.

 

 

But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King Puranjana. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version:

gam avisya ca bhutani

dharayamy aham ojasa

pusnami causadhih sarvah

somo bhutvah rasatmakah

[bg. 15.13]

"I become the moon,'' and "yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) "I am the splendor of the moon,'' and "jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' [bg. 13.18] "I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know.

[Guruvani]

It is an important topic for the fact that Srimad Bhagavatan has suffered from a lot of skepticism and criticism even from within the Krishna consciousness community over the fact that it describes the Moon as being futher than the Sun.

I think if we can find a way to think of this conception as being correct from a particular understanding of the mystical nature of the universal creation that the Bhagavatam can be spared this kind of criticism and spare the devotees the offense.

 

I am not satisfied to go through my whole life thinking that the Bhagavatam espouses erroneous astronomical information. I prefer to search and search until I find a proper explanation of what the distances and dimensions of planets are actually calculated by other than simple linear mundane measurements.

 

Obviously, the Vedic rishis did not use simple, linear mundane measurements when they described the different levels of planetary existence.

 

They did not use mathematics, geometry or calculus. They estimated the universe in term of levels of thought, intelligence and consciousness.

 

They see the universe in terms of planes of existence, not in terms of linear distances between gross forms of matter.

 

So, maybe to you this topic is useless or worse than useless but there are some of us who need a logical explanation that can establish that the Bhagavatam is NOT an archaic, primitive book filled with superstitious misconceptions about the structure of the solar system.

 

I think I have found my answer.

I have faith the Bhagavatam is the most advanced spiritual understanding of the universe that mankind has ever known.

 

I can't rest until I can penetrate the superficial and erroneous understanding that the Bhagavatam is an old book of superstitions that have been debunked by modern science.

Well, maybe that is good enough for you pal, but it is not good enough for me and I will continue to study the Bhagavatam with faith that there is a good and logical explanation behind the calculations of distances between planets based on another form of calculation aside from the simple, mundane linear perception of scientists.

 

The Bhagavatam deals with the most sublime and fundamental nature of existence. It's methods and measurements aren't based upon crude scientific principles of empiric observation.

 

The whole of the Bhagavatam is KRISHNA. All of it, not just the parts that we pick and choose to accept.

 

So, the problem is not with the Bhagavatam,

The problem is with our dull, blunt empiric approach to understanding the mysteries of the universe.

 

I am determined to reach beyond this dull, blunt, pathetic mundane scientific understanding of the universe and understand the mystical nature of the universe that eludes our dull, sickly and crude material senses.

[Guruvani]

In this image below we can see that actually "Jupiter" is much larger in terms of it's subtle form than we see with the gross sense. The magnetosphere of Jupiter extends for millions of miles beyond the gross layer.

Even more subtle than the magnetosphere is even more subtle aspects of the planet Jupiter, as with all planets.

So, the rishis understand the most subtle and fundamental energies of the universe.

Thus, they calculate the universe according to a whole different perception of time and space.

 

[Guest guest]

 

I think I have found my answer.

I have faith the Bhagavatam is the most advanced spiritual understanding of the universe that mankind has ever known.

 

That it may well be, but this has nothing to do with a physical measurement of distance between the earth and the moon.

 

 

I can't rest until I can penetrate the superficial and erroneous understanding that the Bhagavatam is an old book of superstitions that have been debunked by modern science.

 

You assume the Bhagavatam is correct on this issue based purely on sentiments and are now seeking evidence to prove your sentiments right. And that too in the glaring light of clear evidence that the Sun is in fact farther away from the earth than the moon. The Bhagavatam cannot change facts.

 

 

So, the problem is not with the Bhagavatam,

The problem is with our dull, blunt empiric approach to understanding the mysteries of the universe.

 

The problem is not with the Bhagavatam, but with people like yourself who fail to understand the scope of a text and interpret it incorrectly. The Bhagavatam is a book on religion and should be treated as such. Just as you would not look for religion in an astronomical treatise, by similar plain logic, you do not look for astronomy in a religious book either.

[Guruvani]

 

That it may well be, but this has nothing to do with a physical measurement of distance between the earth and the moon.

 

 

 

You assume the Bhagavatam is correct on this issue based purely on sentiments and are now seeking evidence to prove your sentiments right. And that too in the glaring light of clear evidence that the Sun is in fact farther away from the earth than the moon. The Bhagavatam cannot change facts.

 

 

 

The problem is not with the Bhagavatam, but with people like yourself who fail to understand the scope of a text and interpret it incorrectly. The Bhagavatam is a book on religion and should be treated as such. Just as you would not look for religion in an astronomical treatise, by similar plain logic, you do not look for astronomy in a religious book either.

A book on religion?

Where did the acharyas ever say that?

 

Mahaprabhu said the Bhagavatam is spotless.

It is perfect.

There is not one mistake in it's description of the universal arrangement.

 

Do you think that the greatest yogic masters and mystic sages of the Vedic age used simple, linear, mundane calculations in presenting the structure of the universe?

I don't think so.

I think you have to be quite the smug fool to assume that the Vedic rishis used any form of gross perception to understand and describe the nature of the universe.

 

The Bhagavatam is not a book of "religion".

 

What is the Bhagavatam about?

 

The reciters of Srimad-Bhagavatam have utilized three methods to explain these ten subjects, namely by Vedic reference (shrutena), by direct explanation (arthena), and by summary explanations given by the great sages (anjasa).

The following is a brief explanation of each of these ten subjects.

1) Sarga - the elemental creation

Sarga is defined as follows:

 

 

bhuta-matrendriya-dhiyam

janma sarga udahritah

 

"The elemental creation of sixteen principles of matter - namely the five gross elements (pancha-bhutas), the five objects of sense perception (tan-matras), the five knowledge acquiring senses (jnanendriyas) and the mind - is known as sarga."

The five gross elements (pancha-bhutas) are earth, water, fire, air and ether; the five objects of sensual perception (tan-matras) are sound, form, taste, smell, and touch; and the five knowledge acquiring senses (jnanendriyas) are the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin. Together with the mind, these sixteen principles are created by the first purusha incarnation, Maha-Vishnu. Within these sixteen principles eight other principles exist subtly, making there a total of twenty-four principles of material existence.

2) Visarga - the secondary creation

Visarga is defined as follows:

 

 

brahmano guna-vaishamyad

visargah paurushah smritah

 

"The secondary creation by Brahma carried out through the interaction of the three modes of nature is known as visarga."

By manipulating the sixteen original principles of material existence and by the interaction of the three modes of material nature (sattva, rajas and tamas), Lord Brahma carries out a subsequent creation, more properly described as an assembling of universal ingredients.

3) Sthanam - the planetary systems

Sthanam is defined as follows:

 

 

sthitir vaikuntha-vijayah

 

"The true situation (sthanam) is the realm of Vaikuntha."

The entire creation by the Lord is to enable the conditioned souls to satisfy their material desire to lord over the material energy. As such, according to their desires, the Lord creates a suitable situation (sthanam) for them to dwell in. Within the universe, these situations can be divided into fourteen main categories, known technically as bhuvanas, or planetary systems, and 8,400,000 sub-categories, commonly known as species of life. From the topmost sthanam of Brahma-loka (the abode of Lord Brahma) down to the lowest sthanam of Patala-loka, all situations are destructible. In every situation the conditioned living entity is conquered by birth and death. Only by attaining to our eternal constitutional situation in the spiritual realm of Vaikuntha can we conquer the birth and death of this material world. Thus the true sthanam of the living entity is the realm of Vaikuntha. All other temporary situations within this material world cause one to become a victim of material suffering, simply shifting from one situation to the next.

4) Poshanam - protection by the Lord

Poshanam is defined as follows:

 

 

poshanam tad anugrahah

 

"Protection (poshanam) is the causeless mercy of the Lord."

Poshanam can be defined in two ways according to the mentality of the living entity. For the conditioned souls, poshanam refers to material maintenance. It is the Lord who fulfills the desires of all living entities:

 

 

nityo nityanam chetanash chetananam

eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman

 

"The supreme eternal among all eternals, the supremely conscious among all the conscious living entities - it is that supreme one among the many who fulfills the desires of all."

For the devotees of the Lord, poshanam refers to the Lord's causeless mercy and protection. Protection from hunger is the lowest form of protection, which the Lord offers to the conditioned living entities. For the devotees, the Lord's protection is protection from the illusion of maya. The Lord gives the devotee the strength to always remember Him and engage in His devotional service.

5) Utayah - the creative impetus

Utayah is defined as follows:

 

 

utayah karma-vasanah

 

"The impetus for activity (utayah) is the desire for fruitive work."

The conditioned soul forgets that the Lord is his eternal protector and maintainer, and thus an impetus for fruitive activity is manifested for one's self maintenance. This desire for fruitive activity is the driving force behind all work within this material world. The karma-vasanas are the accumulated residue of one's previous activities. Every material activity we perform creates a residual impression within our consciousness, which is carried with us life after life. The sum total of these impressions form our creative impetus to work.

The true impetus of the living entity should be to go back to Godhead, to the supreme abode of Vaikuntha, and activities performed in that direction form the right path of work.

6) Manvantara - the change of Manus

Manvantara is defined as follows:

 

 

manvantarani sad-dharma

 

"The reign of the Manus (manvantaras) are for establishing the eternal religious principles."

Manu is the father of mankind, the progenitor, empowered to guide the human race towards self-realization. Manu provides revealed scriptures to mankind which regulate their activities in a manner that will be for their eternal welfare. When the living entities accept such a regulated path, the Lord provides them with all protection by which they may attain their constitutional situation in Vaikuntha. Thus the desire to go back to Godhead and regulated activities performed to achieve that goal form the proper path of action.

7) Isha-anukatha - the science of God

Isha-anukatha is defined as follows:

 

 

avataranucharitam

haresh chasyanuvartinam

pumsam isha-kathah prokta

nanakhyanopabrimhitah

 

"The science of God (isha-anukatha) describes the incarnations of the Personality of Godhead and His different activities together with the activities of His great devotees."

The entire material creation is for the ultimate purpose of the living entities' salvation. When the conditioned living entities utilize the creation for secondary purposes, such as material fruitive activity, the Lord incarnates to reclaim these forgetful souls. The Lord directly delivers living entities by His divine appearance as well as by its recorded history. The Supreme Lord is so potent that simply by hearing about His transcendental activities in His various incarnations one becomes free from material bondage. Thus the topics of the Lord and His devotees, which constitute the science of God, should be given respectful aural reception.

8) Nirodha - the dissolution

Nirodha is defined as follows:

 

 

nirodho 'syanushayanam

atmanah saha shaktibhih

 

"The merging of the living entity, along with his conditioned living tendency, with the mystic lying down of the Maha-Vishnu is called the winding up of the cosmic manifestation, or nirodha."

As we have briefly mentioned before, the entire material creation offers two facilities to the conditioned living entities. The living entities may either utilize it to fulfill their desire to lord it over material nature, or they may utilize it to go back to Godhead, the spiritual abode of Vaikuntha. For the living entities who take advantage of the science of God as propagated by the Manus, and who develop a desire to act in such a regulated manner, the Lord provides them full protection from the material energy and resituates them in their proper situation in Vaikuntha. For the other living entities, who choose to disregard the science of God, the Lord gives them an interim period of relief at the time of dissolution. This temporary period of relief is technically called nirodha, or the winding up of the cosmic manifestation. All the living entities along with their conditional tendencies (vasanas) merge into the body of Maha-Vishnu to await another creation and another opportunity to take up the science of God. Though the physical bodies are given up at this time, the subtle bodies (sukshma-sariras) remain with the living entities along with their latent desires. This is indicated by the words atmanah saha shaktibhih.

9) Mukti - liberation

Mukti is defined as follows:

 

 

muktir hitvanyatha rupam

sva-rupena vyavasthitih

 

"Liberation (mukti) is the permanent situation of the form of the living entity after he gives up the changeable gross and subtle material bodies."

Those living entities who develop a desire to act for their ultimate welfare regulate their life according to the instructions of the Manus. Such living entities receive the mercy and protection of the Lord in the form of His divine activities and incarnations, either personally or in its literary form as the science of God. By hearing the narrations of the Lord's activities these living entities are able to give up all external identification with the principles of material existence and its interaction. Such purified living entities develop their original spiritual bodies and are resituated in their constitutional position in Vaikuntha, the spiritual abode of the Lord. This is technically known as mukti or liberation. The words hitvanyatha rupam indicate that these living entities have become completely free from all material coverings including the sukshma-sarira and related vasanas. The word vyavasthitih indicates the real and eternal sthanam of the living entity - sthitir vaikuntha vijayah.

10) Ashraya - the supreme shelter

Ashraya is defined in the following three verses:

 

 

abhasash ca nirodhash ca

yato 'sty adhyavasiyate

sa ashrayah param brahma

paramatmeti shabdyate

 

"The supreme one who is celebrated as the Supreme Being or the Supreme Soul is the supreme source of the cosmic manifestation as well as its reservoir and winding up. Thus He is the supreme shelter, the Absolute Truth."

 

 

yo 'dhyatmiko 'yam purushah

so 'sav evadhidaivikah

yas tatrobhaya-vicchedah

purusho hy adhibhautikah

ekam ekatarabhave

yada nopalabhamahe

tritayam tatra yo veda

sa atma svashrayashrayah

 

"The individual person possessing different instruments of senses is called the adhyatmic person, and the individual controlling deity of the senses is called adhidaivic. The embodiment seen on the eyeballs is called the adhibhautic person. All three of the above mentioned stages of different living entities are interdependent. In the absence of one, another is not understood. But the Supreme Being who sees every one of them as the shelter of the shelter is independent of all, and therefore He is the supreme shelter."

The Srimad Bhagavata Purana begins with the Vedanta statement "janmady asya yatah" to bring to our attention the supreme source and shelter of all existence - the ashraya-tattva. In order to explain the transcendence of the ashraya the other nine subjects have been explained.

In all of existence there are factually only two divisions, namely the dependent (para-tantra) and the independent (sva-tantra). The independent (svarat) refers only to that Supreme Lord invoked in the beginning of Srimad-Bhagavatam by the words "om namo bhagavate vasudevaya". Sri Vyasa Muni begins by first offering his obeisances to Bhagavan Sri Krishna (Vasudeva) and then identifies Him as the absolute and independent shelter of everything - janmadyasya yatah svarat satyam param dhimahi. The transcendental Sri Krishna is that tenth subject of Srimad-Bhagavatam, and in order to properly describe Him, Sri Vyasa Muni has explained the other nine subject matters.

Studied together, these ten subject matters fully establish the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavan Sri Krishna, as the transcendental Absolute Truth. The Vedanta Sutras begin by instructing us to inquire into the nature of the Absolute Truth - athato brahma jijnasa. This Srimad-Bhagavatam is the perfect companion to that inquiry, as it is the natural commentary to the Vedanta Sutras.

Both the Vedanta Sutras and the Srimad-Bhagavatam begin from the point of understanding the ultimate source of everything. Sri Vyasa Muni, the author of these two texts, begins both with the same verse: janmady asya yatah, "From whom everything emanates." But in the Srimad Bhagavatam he expands and elaborates on this very important philosophical subject in great detail:

 

 

janmady asya yatah anvayad itaratas carthesv abhijnah svarat

tene brahma hrda ya adi-kavaye muhyanti yat surayah

tejo-vari-mrdam yatha vinimayo yatra tri-sargo 'mrsa

dhamna svena sada nirasta-kuhakam satyam param dhimahi

 

"I meditate upon Lord Sri Krishna because He is the Absolute Truth and the primeval cause of all causes of creation, sustenance and destruction on the manifested universes. He is directly and indirectly conscious of all manifestations and He is independent because there is no other cause beyond Him. It is He only who first imparted the Vedic knowledge unto the heart of Brahmaji, the original living being. By Him even the great sages and demigods are placed into illusion, as one is bewildered by the illusory representations of water seen in fire, or land seen on water. Only because of Him do the material universes, temporarily manifested by the reactions of the three modes of nature, appear factual, although they are unreal. I therefore meditate upon Him, Lord Sri Krishna, who is eternally existent in the transcendental abode, which is forever free from the illusory representations of the material world. I meditate upon Him, for He is the Absolute Truth."

Thus Srimad-Bhagavatam is the key to unlock the secrets of the Vedanta Sutras. There is no literature in the world as great as this Srimad Bhagavata Purana. The transcendental narrations within it give us light in this dark age of Kali yuga:

 

 

krishne sva-dhamopagate

dharma-jnanadibhih saha

kalau nashta-drisham esha

puranarko 'dhunoditah

 

"This Bhagavata Purana is as brilliant as the sun, and it has arisen just after the departure of Lord Krishna to His own abode, accompanied by religion, knowledge, etc. Persons who have lost their vision due to the dense darkness of ignorance in the age of Kali shall get light from this Purana."

[Guest guest]

 

A book on religion?

Where did the acharyas ever say that?

 

Mahaprabhu said the Bhagavatam is spotless.

It is perfect.

There is not one mistake in it's description of the universal arrangement.

 

The part on universal arrangement was added by you. It is also possible that during Mahaprabhu's times, people were still unaware of the real distances between the earth, sun and the moon. And finally, I think when Mahaprabhu described the Bhagavatam as spotless, he meant it in the religious sense. There is no evidence to show he was also including the distances part.

 

 

Do you think that the greatest yogic masters and mystic sages of the Vedic age used simple, linear, mundane calculations in presenting the structure of the universe?

 

They let their imagination run wild. Have you read the description of Jambu Dvipa and the structure of the planet? They thought the earth was flat and a set of concentric rings of water and land. Instead of the moon topic, you should perhaps first try to prove that our conception of geography is incorrect as it is different from the Bhagavatam. When you successfully accomplish this, then move on to the moon topic.

 

All the ten topics covered by the Bhagavatam are religious in nature. Take your time and read the description of each for a better understanding. Whatever they knew they wrote it down, whatever they did not know, they speculated and wrote down their speculations as truth. Today with advancements in science and technology, some of those speculations are proven wrong and we should be practical enough to accept the truth.

 

Living in denial and beating the same old drum will not alter facts in the least.

[Guruvani]

 

The part on universal arrangement was added by you. It is also possible that during Mahaprabhu's times, people were still unaware of the real distances between the earth, sun and the moon. And finally, I think when Mahaprabhu described the Bhagavatam as spotless, he meant it in the religious sense. There is no evidence to show he was also including the distances part.

 

 

 

They let their imagination run wild. Have you read the description of Jambu Dvipa and the structure of the planet? They thought the earth was flat and a set of concentric rings of water and land. Instead of the moon topic, you should perhaps first try to prove that our conception of geography is incorrect as it is different from the Bhagavatam. When you successfully accomplish this, then move on to the moon topic.

 

All the ten topics covered by the Bhagavatam are religious in nature. Take your time and read the description of each for a better understanding. Whatever they knew they wrote it down, whatever they did not know, they speculated and wrote down their speculations as truth. Today with advancements in science and technology, some of those speculations are proven wrong and we should be practical enough to accept the truth.

 

Living in denial and beating the same old drum will not alter facts in the least.

 

ok, stick your pathetic sense perception.

you are obviously engrossed in the bodily concept of life.

[Guest guest]

Beautiful post. It is obvious that you are someone with great faith and understanding.

 

Please continue fighting those that cast doubts on the spotless Srimad Bhagavatam. You're doing an admirable job already.

 

 

It is an important topic for the fact that Srimad Bhagavatan has suffered from a lot of skepticism and criticism even from within the Krishna consciousness community over the fact that it describes the Moon as being futher than the Sun.

I think if we can find a way to think of this conception as being correct from a particular understanding of the mystical nature of the universal creation that the Bhagavatam can be spared this kind of criticism and spare the devotees the offense.

 

I am not satisfied to go through my whole life thinking that the Bhagavatam espouses erroneous astronomical information. I prefer to search and search until I find a proper explanation of what the distances and dimensions of planets are actually calculated by other than simple linear mundane measurements.

 

Obviously, the Vedic rishis did not use simple, linear mundane measurements when they described the different levels of planetary existence.

 

They did not use mathematics, geometry or calculus. They estimated the universe in term of levels of thought, intelligence and consciousness.

 

They see the universe in terms of planes of existence, not in terms of linear distances between gross forms of matter.

 

So, maybe to you this topic is useless or worse than useless but there are some of us who need a logical explanation that can establish that the Bhagavatam is NOT an archaic, primitive book filled with superstitious misconceptions about the structure of the solar system.

 

I think I have found my answer.

I have faith the Bhagavatam is the most advanced spiritual understanding of the universe that mankind has ever known.

 

I can't rest until I can penetrate the superficial and erroneous understanding that the Bhagavatam is an old book of superstitions that have been debunked by modern science.

Well, maybe that is good enough for you pal, but it is not good enough for me and I will continue to study the Bhagavatam with faith that there is a good and logical explanation behind the calculations of distances between planets based on another form of calculation aside from the simple, mundane linear perception of scientists.

 

The Bhagavatam deals with the most sublime and fundamental nature of existence. It's methods and measurements aren't based upon crude scientific principles of empiric observation.

 

The whole of the Bhagavatam is KRISHNA. All of it, not just the parts that we pick and choose to accept.

 

So, the problem is not with the Bhagavatam,

The problem is with our dull, blunt empiric approach to understanding the mysteries of the universe.

 

I am determined to reach beyond this dull, blunt, pathetic mundane scientific understanding of the universe and understand the mystical nature of the universe that eludes our dull, sickly and crude material senses.

[Guruvani]

 

 

 

They let their imagination run wild. Have you read the description of Jambu Dvipa and the structure of the planet? They thought the earth was flat and a set of concentric rings of water and land. Instead of the moon topic, you should perhaps first try to prove that our conception of geography is incorrect as it is different from the Bhagavatam. When you successfully accomplish this, then move on to the moon topic.

 

 

you are obviously a gross sensualist with a very diseased mentality.

you have no right to touch the Bhagavatam

just leave it alone or you will hasten your own destruction with such evil materialistic thinking of the Bhagavatam

[Guest guest]

Is mother Yasoda looking into Krsna's mouth and seeing the entire universe 'allegorical'?

 

 

Sometimes devotees spend excessive time and energy on insisting allegories are the literal scientific truth. They most often throw their explanations up against modern science claiming the stupid scientists just can't see the deep mystical truth of the matter that explains why the allegory is not an allegory.

 

Who benefits from this? No one. Who is harmed? Those that come away thinking the Hare Krsna's are simple minded sentimentalists who just believe in some old myths.

 

Better to engage these folks in discussing the essence of Srimad Bhagavatam and not bothering with the myths allegories and assorted odd statements found in the SB.

 

That is Srila Prabhupada's viewpoint as expressed below in this letter excerpt to Krsnadas.

[Guruvani]

 

 

 

They let their imagination run wild. Have you read the description of Jambu Dvipa and the structure of the planet? They thought the earth was flat and a set of concentric rings of water and land.

 

you are a fool.

you should stay away from the Bhagavatam.

It will simply become a monster that devours you.

[Guest guest]

All the ten topics covered by the Bhagavatam are religious in nature. Take your time and read the description of each for a better understanding. Whatever they knew they wrote it down, whatever they did not know, they speculated and wrote down their speculations as truth. Today with advancements in science and technology, some of those speculations are proven wrong and we should be practical enough to accept the truth.

 

Living in denial and beating the same old drum will not alter facts in the least.

 

 

 

you are a fool.

you should stay away from the Bhagavatam.

It will simply become a monster that devours you.

[Guruvani]

 

 

Living in denial and beating the same old drum will not alter facts in the least.

 

Actually, Charlie, you are the one living in denial and beating the same old mundane drum of empiric approach to understanding the universe.

 

it must be awfully dry and miserable on the planet you live on.

[Guest guest]

 

you are obviously a gross sensualist with a very diseased mentality.

you have no right to touch the Bhagavatam

just leave it alone or you will hasten your own destruction with such evil materialistic thinking of the Bhagavatam

 

 

Are you for real?

[Guest guest]

Joker!

 

 

you are obviously a gross sensualist with a very diseased mentality.

you have no right to touch the Bhagavatam

just leave it alone or you will hasten your own destruction with such evil materialistic thinking of the Bhagavatam

[Guest guest]

I can hardly believe there are devotees who still talk like that, it's actually quite funny!

[Guruvani]

 

I can hardly believe there are devotees who still talk like that, it's actually quite funny!

 

people like you just come to this forum to ridicule and criticise.

you aren't interested to contribute to the discussion apart from from crass, crude remarks meant for insulting others.

 

why don't you crawl back to your baby crib and suck on the bottle of empiric knowledge?

[Guest guest]

Look whos talking, you resort to name calling anyone who disagrees with your Ritvik vedabasevadi invention.

 

You have never even been to Vrndavan I bet or know what real sadhu sanga is, and you relentlessly try and trip people up with your rude insult tactics.

 

We know all too well this type of approach and what lies behind it, your an armchair devotee at best who thinks just because you can buy a vedabase and quote from it in a fundamentalist manner you know Gaudiya Vaishnavism,

 

Sorry you can throw all the spew you want. We know better and your anger shows your weakness.

 

I come here to dispute misconceptions that come from ill informed fanatical people like you, who think they represent Sri Chaitanya who you don't at all, what so ever!

[Guest guest]

It's quite obvious that you refuse to see the truth and have an agenda to prove that in your own warped world, you have a understanding of Gaudiya Siddhanta.

 

You don't want to objectively know the siddhanta. You want to pidegonhole the siddhanta into a mold that fits what your little mind perceives. I could care less which version is correct. I just want to understand the truth. You have to be an idiot to think the way you do.

 

 

people like you just come to this forum to ridicule and criticise.

you aren't interested to contribute to the discussion apart from from crass, crude remarks meant for insulting others.

 

why don't you crawl back to your baby crib and suck on the bottle of empiric knowledge?

[Guruvani]

 

Look whos talking, you resort to name calling anyone who disagrees with your Ritvik vedabasevadi invention.

 

 

This topic is not about ritvik.

So, you are just grasping at straws.

 

You are one of them shallow pinheads that thinks the Bhagavatam describes the universe in empric terms based upon gross sensual perception.

 

The problem is not with the Bhagavatam.

 

The problem is that you are a fool and don't understand that.

[Guest guest]

Ok now, develop a little humility you ritvik, alias vedabasevadi!

 

 

This topic is not about ritvik.

So, you are just grasping at straws.

 

You are one of them shallow pinheads that thinks the Bhagavatam describes the universe in empric terms based upon gross sensual perception.

 

The problem is not with the Bhagavatam.

 

The problem is that you are a fool and don't understand that.

[Guruvani]

 

It's quite obvious that you refuse to see the truth and have an agenda to prove that in your own warped world, you have a understanding of Gaudiya Siddhanta.

 

Well, you say the Bhagavatam is wrong and you and your little pinhead buddies the scientists have got it all figured out.

 

I say that the Bhagavatam is right and you and your little pinhead buddies the scientists don't know diddly-sqaut about the mysteries of the universe.

 

In short, you are pathetic and disgusting.

[Guest guest]

Anyone who disagrees with your warped understanding is a fool, or a baby in diaper or a silly girl, sure!

 

Nice try but we are not buying it. Many of us had this tactic used on us years before you came along. Get original at least.

 

And it doesn't matter if this topic isn't about Ritvik, you make it so because that is all your numb skull head stuck in the sand can reiterate.

 

Go to India, see what real sadhu sanga is, it's not this hiding behind your vedabase and pretending you know more than all other Gaudiyas and calling them names when they disagree with your fundy attitude.

[Guruvani]

 

Anyone who disagrees with your warped understanding is a fool, or a baby in diaper or a silly girl, sure!

 

Nice try but we are not buying it. Many of us had this tactic used on us years before you came along. Get original at least.

 

And it doesn't matter if this topic isn't about Ritvik, you make it so because that is all your numb skull head stuck in the sand can reiterate.

 

Go to India, see what real sadhu sanga is, it's not this hiding behind your vedabase and pretending you know more than all other Gaudiyas and calling them names when they disagree with your fundy attitude.

 

Fundy?

Mahaprabhu said the Bhagavat Purana was spotless.

You say it is has a bunch of bad information.

 

I think I will stick with Mahaprabhu if that is alright with you.

 

(damn left-wing liberal)

[Guest guest]

Guruvani,

 

Have you ever been to Vrndavana?