Rahu chasing the Moon... literal or allegorical? Irrelevant!

[Guruvani]

well, there are about three or four Jesus people in here always spouting off their sentiment, so I think that someone from the other side should be allowed to speak.

 

these Jesus people have been dominating this forum for years and I personally find it quite a distraction when people come to this forum to learn about Eastern philosophy.

 

You can hear about Jesus on many other forums.

 

This forum is from "INDIA DIVINE" and I think that the philosophies and religions of India should be the focus.

 

the Jesus people can find many Christian forums to go stroke each other with Christian sentiment.

 

This forum should offer something that you can't get from the Christian forums.

 

So, I have never been concerned to be a crowd pleaser.

 

There are so many sentimentalists around that somebody needs to stand up for transcendentalism and lead discussions away from this Jesus stuff that seems to crop up constantly.

[Beggar]

Its a sad state of affairs for all of us. We don't take trnadapi sunicena taror api suhisnuna amanina manidena kirtaniyah sada haih seriously, because for what ever reason, we don't really have any vijnana or proper understanding of it.

From - Lecture by Srila Prabhupada, Mayapur, March 16, 1976

 

 

trnad api sunicena

taror api sahisnuna

amanina manadena

kirtaniyah sada harih

[Cc. Adi 17.31]

 

If you want to chant Hare Krsna mantra, then you have to take this principle, trnad api sunicena. You have to become humbler than the grass. Grass, it is lying on the street. Everyone is trampling down. Never protests. In the lawn you are... Everyone is trampling the grass. There is no protest. Taror api sahisnuna. And tolerant than the tree. The tree is giving us so much help. It is giving us fruit, flower, leaves, and when there is scorching heat, shelter also. Sit down underneath. So beneficial, still, we cut. As soon as I like, I cut it down. But there is no protest. The tree does not say, "I have given you so much help, and you are cutting me?" No. Tolerant. Yes. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has selected, taror api sahisnuna. And amanina manadena. For oneself one should not expect any respectful position, but he, the devotee, should offer all respect to anyone. Amanina manadena kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. If we acquire this qualification, then we can chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra without any disturbance. This is the qualification.

 

So Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to teach these principles. He is Krsna Himself. There is no... Na caitanyat krsnat para-tattvam param iha. Para-tattvam, the Supreme Truth, is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The Supreme Truth is Krsna, but Caitanya Mahaprabhu is not different from Krsna...

 

[mahak]

guruvani:You can hear about Jesus on many other forums.

 

This forum is from "INDIA DIVINE" and I think that the philosophies and religions of India should be the focus.

 

the Jesus people can find many Christian forums to go stroke each other with Christian sentiment.

 

This forum should offer something that you can't get from the Christian forums.

 

mahaksadasa: Wrong, brother. The other forums talk about the perversion called christianity. Lord Jesus Christ is spoken of here in a way that is never acceptable to the christian. You are not truthful, either, because you treat the worshippers of ganesha and siva the same way you treat those who may want to discuss the vaisnavism of Lord Jesus Christ. They are from INDIA DIVINE. At least be truthful, you vilify everyone equally, you are not the champion of INDIAN RELIGION, you are just the voice of incessant one-upsmanship.

 

mahaksadasa

[theist]

 

In the midst of that region of outer space [antariksha] is the most opulent sun, the king of all the planets that emanate heat, such as the moon. By the influence of its radiation, the sun heats the universe and maintains its proper order. It also gives light to help all living entities see. While passing toward the north, toward the south or through the equator, in accordance with the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is said to move slowly, swiftly or moderately. According to its movements in rising above, going beneath or passing through the equator—and correspondingly coming in touch with various signs of the zodiac, headed by Makara [Capricorn]—days and nights are short, long or equal to one another. SB 5.21.3

 

The moon radiates heat?

[Guruvani]

 

The moon radiates heat?

 

there you go again...........

 

It said "emanates" heat, not radiates.

 

Can there be light without heat?

 

 

planets that emanate heat, such as the moon

 

 

Mean Surface Temperature

 

F R C K

Earth 59 519 15 288

Moon -9 451 -23 250

Mars -76 384 -60 213

 

Minimum Surface Temperature

 

F R C K

Earth -128 332 -89 184

Moon -233 227 -147 126

Mars -170 290 -112 161

 

Maximum Surface Temperature

 

F R C K

Earth 136 596 58 331

Moon 212 672 100 373

Mars 17 477 -8 265

</pre>

[Guruvani]

[theist]

Radiate is a synonym for emanate. Check a Thesaurus. The moon reflects light. that reflected sunlight of course has some amont of heat but it doesn't flow from the moon itself. It is not an independent source of light. or heat. There are no little fires on the surface of the moon as Prabhupada speculated. Ever hear of the dark side of the moon?

 

But how typical of you to miss the actual point of the post which was the question I posed.

[theist]

T

RANSLATION SB 5.20.13

Outside the ocean of liquor is another island, known as Kusadvipa, which is 800,000 yojanas [6,400,000 miles] wide, twice as wide as the ocean of liquor. As Salmalidvipa is surrounded by a liquor ocean, Kusadvipa is surrounded by an ocean of liquid ghee as broad as the island itself. On Kusadvipa there are clumps of kusa grass, from which the island takes its name. This kusa grass, which was created by the demigods by the will of the Supreme Lord, appears like a second form of fire, but with very mild and pleasing flames. Its young shoots illuminate all directions.

 

PURPORT

From the descriptions in this verse, we can make an educated guess about the nature of the flames on the moon. Like the sun, the moon must also be full of flames because without flames there cannot be illumination. The flames on the moon, however, unlike those on the sun, must be mild and pleasing. This is our conviction. The modern theory that the moon is full of dust is not accepted in the verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam. In regard to this verse, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says, susashpani sukomala-sikhas tesham rocisha: the kusa grass illuminates all directions, but its flames are very mild and pleasing. This gives some idea of the flames existing on the moon.

 

 

There are flames but they are on the sun and it is that illumination that is reflected off the moon.

 

Must I accept everything Srila Prabhupada says about the objects in this material world, like the moon having flames, before I can accept his teachings on theism?

[Guruvani]

 

T

 

There are flames but they are on the sun and it is that illumination that is reflected off the moon.

 

Must I accept everything Srila Prabhupada says about the objects in this material world, like the moon having flames, before I can accept his teachings on theism?

No, you don't.

 

But, when you grow up into a big boy you will understand that your senses have cheated you.

 

Vishvanatha Chakravarti is the one who said there were flames on the Moon.

 

So, maybe your gripe should be with him?

 

Srila Prabhupada is just following his gurus.

 

Don't blame Srila Prabhupada for being true to what the great masters of the Gaudiya parampara have given.

 

ok?

[theist]

I don't have a gripe, rather an observation.

[Guruvani]

 

I don't have a gipe, rather an observation.

 

then you must have observed that Srila Prabhupada is simply giving what is there in the Bhagavatam and the commentaries of the acharyas?

 

then you must have observed that Srila Prabhupada didn't second guess Sukadeva and reject what he didn't like?

[theist]

I do not consider passing on a mistake from the Bhagavatam to Visvanatha to Srila Prabupada as a positive thing. By nature I am more independent in my thinking. Those in the GV line see that as a fault and that is one reason I am not interested in being a GV vaisnava.

 

However I also see in what is being passed down in the Bhagavatam, the highest conceptions of theism. That I want to learn but I feel no need to pretend to accept ancient cosmological myths as being true. Theism is not dependent on Sukadeva Goswami being right in what he says about the structure of the universe.

 

Of course the point of this thread is that you are not disqualified from loving Krsna even if you do believe the moon is twice as big as the sun and is 800,000 miles aboive the rays of the sun in relation to earth. Such things are irrelevant to me.

 

"Take the essence..." is Prabhupada's advice.

[Guruvani]

just do the best with what you can accept.

 

If you have some faith at all it is a very great thing.

 

It's hard to shake the contaminations of kali-yuga.

 

Just keep trying to push ahead and make spiritual advancement any way you can.

 

for myself I have made peace with the fact that the Bhagavatam deals with something beyond what we can confirm with empiric science.

 

Sukadeva already said that the universal form was imaginary.

 

so, just look at it that way and keep pushing ahead.

[Guest guest]

I agree with you.

 

It's funny hwo the fools that cast doubts on the Bhagavatam can't answer a simple question, repeated here one more time ... "Is mother Yashoda's looking into Krishna's mouth and seeing the entire universe an allegory?"

 

 

just do the best with what you can accept.

 

If you have some faith at all it is a very great thing.

 

It's hard to shake the contaminations of kali-yuga.

 

Just keep trying to push ahead and make spiritual advancement any way you can.

 

for myself I have made peace with the fact that the Bhagavatam deals with something beyond what we can confirm with empiric science.

 

Sukadeva already said that the universal form was imaginary.

 

so, just look at it that way and keep pushing ahead.

[theist]

 

I agree with you.

 

It's funny hwo the fools that cast doubts on the Bhagavatam can't answer a simple question, repeated here one more time ... "Is mother Yashoda's looking into Krishna's mouth and seeing the entire universe an allegory?"

 

I accept that I am a fool but tell me again why you took birth in the material world? O' BTW I gave an answer to your meaningless question several days ago. Look it up.

[Guruvani]

 

I accept that I am a fool but

 

If we really accepted ourselves as fools we would never accuse the spotless Purana of being riddled with bad information and false statistics.

 

no, that is not real humility if we blame the Bhagavatam up against our sense perception and scientific concepts.

 

our egos are nasty, ugly and evil.

 

we are very far from actually accepting that.

[theist]

Everyone that has taken birth in the material world is a fool. But I am not so much of a fool that I am interested in your view of anything in the Bhagavatam or in spiritual life in general.

 

There is so much common superstitions of the time written into the Bhagavatam. That one should avoid drinking foam for example because sin is deposited there.

 

As I said you are welcome to accept anything and everything you read in the Bhagavatam in anyway you like. As long as you take the essence of the Bhagavatam as well. And if you can't tell what the essence of the Bhagavatam is after all these years well that is your problem.

 

There is no need for you and I to discuss anything so please don't address me personally. Call me any disgusting name you like and ridicule my posts as you please but when you direct your posts to me personally I feel obligated to answer and seriously you ar one person I don't want to have a conversation with.

[theist]

 

TRANSLATION SB 6.9.11

And in return for King Indra's benediction that water would increase the volume of other substances with which it was mixed, water accepted one fourth of the sinful reactions. Therefore there are bubbles and foam in water. When one collects water, these should be avoided.

 

PURPORT

If water is mixed with milk, fruit juice or other similar substances, it increases their volume, and no one can understand which has increased. In return for this benediction, water accepted one fourth of Indra's sinful reactions. These sinful reactions are visible in foam and bubbles. Therefore one should avoid foam and bubbles while collecting drinking water.

 

Simple folktales with no inherent transcendental value. Are we to believe that before this benediction from Indra water did NOT increase the volumn of other substances that it was mixed with.

 

I have nothing against folktales in fact I rather enjoy them but to insist that one is an offender to the Word of God if one doesn't accept them as literal truth is absurd.

 

Folktales are usefully in drawning the attention of more simple folk and then the expert teacher will weave transcendental truth throughout the telling of them for the benefit of the audience.

[Guruvani]

why does the moderator let this this fool keep ranting about the Bhagavatam?

 

all he is doing is trying to insult the devotees who aren't as stupid as him to criticise the literary incarnation of Krishna.

 

this fool is a blasphemer.....

 

why does he get to keep spouting off this crap?

[theist]

 

Guruvani : Fables and Fairytales of the Bhagavatam - The Paroksha Method <hr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

This topic is going to deal with the paroksa method of instruction and give examples of the paroksa (indirect) method of enlightening the conditioned souls of the world through use of fables, fairytales and stories that are allegorical in nature but serving the purpose of higher knowledge.

 

 

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/443274-fables-fairytales-bhagavatam-paroksha-method.html