Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Srila Prabhupada ordered all his disciples to read his books and learn them as much as possible. Sridhar Maharaja: amnayah praha tattvam harim ihaparamam sarva-saktim rasabdhim tad bhinnamsams ca jivan prakrtikavalitan tad vimuktams ca bhavat bhedabheda-prakasam sakalam api hareh sadhanam suddha-bhaktim sadhyam tat pritim evety upadisati harir-gauracandro bhaje tam Here, in one verse, Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given the very gist of Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy. He says, "We are not interested in the opinion of anyone ordinary: there is no value to any opinion other than what is revealed truth (amnaya)." Amnaya means revealed truth or scripture that is coming through a reliable source: the guru-parampara, a genuine succession of gurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Srila Prabhupada: So first thing is to become knowledgeable in Krishna Consciousness, then the tapasya or voluntary life of austerity will result automatically. So I am requesting all of my students to read my books very seriously every day without fail. In this way, if your mind becomes absorbed at least one or two hours daily in the transcendental subject matter of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, and other books then very easily you will make your advancement in Krishna Consciousness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Sriila Prabhupada: If we are Krishna Conscious, any type of occupation will suit me and we shall always be satisfied. Therefore, I recommend you to read books more and more and try to understand the subject matter from different angles of vision and be always discussing it with your godbrothers even while you are working at the press, and when you are working and you cannot read, then listen to the tapes of my lectures and hear in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I am just curious if Guest 9 was ever authorized by Sridhar Maharaja to read Follow the Angels ? Hey, without sanction from Sridhar Maharaja reading any book of his without direct instructions is just jnana-misra-bhakti ....... I think he said it was just karma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Srila Sridhara Maharaj never read Follow the Angels. Or Sri Guru and His Grace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Srila Sridhara Maharaja never read any of the books of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj either. Not even one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Please don't descend into this offensive nonsense. for my part I don't particularly are whether Guruvani follows all the regulative principles. Why is it so important to you? He's not presenting himself as someone who knows and sees all, he is simply engaging in a debate. Why you need to attack and discredit him personally. Engage in the debate or don't, but don't spoil it for no good reason other than unchecked personal desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 but, as far as ISKCON gurus go, here is one of the best. If somebody wanted an ISKCON guru, I would have to recommend this one as one of my personal favorites. I think Trivikrama Maharaja is really nice. Trivikrama Swami Trivikrama Swami H.H. Trivikrama Swami, 62, was initiated by HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada in 1969 and given sannyas initiation in 1971. During Srila Prabhupada's presence on this planet, he was given yearly assignments by his spiritual master and after his demise, he performed a great variety of services for ISKCON. He is well known for his full obedience to Srila Prabhupada's teachings, mood and instructions. As Srila Prabhupada himself said about him: "He always does what I want". He is currently preaching in the USA and in Poland, where he serves as a Regional Secretary under the GBC representative. He also serves as an initiating spiritual master for ISKCON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I like Sivarama Maharaja too. I served with Sivarama Maharaja in Chicago and in a very small austere ashram on a remote farm in Oklahoma. I really can't say anything bad about Sivarama Maharaja. He is a great preacher and a very fixed-up devotee. He didn't get sannyasa from Srila Prabhupada directly, but he is nonetheless a very solid disciple of Srila Prabhupada. http://www.sivaramaswami.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Of course, I love Danavir Maharaja. He has even been here to my house in Florida. He trained me up in ISKCON. I could never say anything against Danavir Maharaja. He and I have different views on some things, but as far as ISKCON gurus go I really like Danavir Maharaja. I was the first student in his "Bhakta Program" that he started in 1975 under the direct orders of Srila Prabhupada. http://rvc.edu/about_danavir_goswami.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I certainly think Srila Prabhupada wanted his top disciples to become initiating gurus. The ritvik system was something he gave for the GBC authority. He appointed 11 men who could approve initiations on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. I think Srila Prabhupada also approved of this system to continue after his departure. the ISKCON gurus I DON'T like are the ones that rejected their ritvik appointments and sent ISKCON into chaos with the zonal guru system. Otherwise, I certainly accept that many disciple of Srila Prabhupada can perform as diksha gurus. That is the natural course of events, especially in the face of the GBC deviation from the ritvik system. The BIG 11 are the ones that destoyed the ritvik system and they get no sympathy from me. Other than that, there are some really nice devotees in ISKCON and ISKCON will flourish again someday as these jewels grow into sweet old Vaishnavas with a long record of good character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 The books of Srila Prabhupada are Amnaya - Brahma Vidya. This was what Srila Bhaktivinode made his stand on - not diksha guru parampara. Sridhar Maharaja exposed that the diksha mantras Bhaktivinode got from Vipina Bihari Goswami didn't have proper realization or conception behind them and were therefore like blanks. Bhaktivinode surcharged his own mantras with Amnaya - the Brahma-vidya of the proper spiritual current that comes through the line of siksha gurus. What one gets from reading the books of Srila Prabhupada is brahma-vidya - spiritual knowledge that surcharges our chanting with proper conception and spiritual potency. Getting the mantra directly from the diksha guru is not the magic. The magic is when we acquire the proper conception through Amnaya - the brahma-vidya. Sridhar Maharaja explained that it is our conception of the Holy Name that determines it's efficacy. No matter who you get the mantra from, if your conception of the mantra is not proper, then it will not award the proper realization. The mantra responds to the proper mindset and the proper conception of the chanter. There is no magic current from the diksha guru to the disciple if the disciple fails to understand the proper conceptions as given in Amnaya - the revealed scriptures. Sridhar Maharaja: <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote: <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> amnayah praha tattvam harim iha paramam sarva-saktim rasabdhim tad bhinnamsams ca jivan prakrtikavalitan tad vimuktams ca bhavat bhedabheda-prakasam sakalam api hareh sadhanam suddha-bhaktim sadhyam tat pritim evety upadisati harir-gauracandro bhaje tam Here, in one verse, Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given the very gist of Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy. He says, "We are not interested in the opinion of anyone ordinary: there is no value to any opinion other than what is revealed truth (amnaya)." Amnaya means revealed truth or scripture that is coming through a reliable source: the guru-parampara, a genuine succession of gurus.</td></tr></tbody></table> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Sridhar Maharaja said the VERY GIST of Gaudiya philosophy is that Amnaya is the basis of brahma-vidya. The gist, the essence, the final conclusion...... is that we must acquire proper spiritual knowledge through Amnaya - the shastras. That is the essence of the Gaudiya philosophy. So, I like the essence more than the formality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Of course, I love Danavir Maharaja.He has even been here to my house in Florida. He trained me up in ISKCON. I could never say anything against Danavir Maharaja. He and I have different views on some things, but as far as ISKCON gurus go I really like Danavir Maharaja. I was the first student in his "Bhakta Program" that he started in 1975 under the direct orders of Srila Prabhupada. Good idea! You can have him teach you about the origin of the soul, Vaikuntha or Goloka in his opinion. Maybe you could do him a favor and turn him on to Pradyumna Swami's dream theory. I know for a fact that all three of your favorites fall within this category! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Good idea! You can have him teach you about the origin of the soul, Vaikuntha or Goloka in his opinion. Maybe you could do him a favor and turn him on to Pradyumna Swami's dream theory. I know for a fact that all three of your favorites fall within this category! Actually, I just read in a book of Sridhar Maharaja yesterday where he said that anything possible and free will is always there and that living entities that go to the spiritual side from the tatastha can again fall back down. So, beware. Even in the Bhagavatam we get such conceptions. This form of preaching is nothing new to the Gaudiyas. It has been around since Mahaprabhu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Good idea! You can have him teach you about the origin of the soul, Vaikuntha or Goloka in his opinion. Maybe you could do him a favor and turn him on to Pradyumna Swami's dream theory. I know for a fact that all three of your favorites fall within this category! Actually, this form of preaching comes from the Bhagavatam. Please allow me to demonstrate. In the story of Puranjana he dies and becomes a woman in his next life; the daughter of King Vidarbha. This woman Vidarbhi is married to a powerful King Malayadhvaja. After a long happy marriage King Malayadhvaja leaves his body in yogic trance and attains spiritual perfection, leaving behind a grieving wife Vidarbhi. In her grief, the Supersoul appears to Vidarbhi as a brahmana to console her with brahma-vidya. Please hear how the Paramatma is preaching to Vidarbhi after the death of her husband. Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.28.52 brāhmaṇa uvāca kā tvaḿ kasyāsi ko vāyaḿ śayāno yasya śocasi jānāsi kiḿ sakhāyaḿ māḿ yenāgre vicacartha ha SYNONYMS brāhmaṇaḥ uvāca — the learned brāhmaṇa said; kā — who; tvam — you; kasya — whose; asi — are you; kaḥ — who; vā — or; ayam — this man; śayānaḥ — lying down; yasya — for whom; śocasi — you are lamenting; jānāsi kim — do you know; sakhāyam — friend; mām — Me; yena — with whom; agre — formerly; vicacartha — you consulted; ha — certainly. TRANSLATION The brāhmaṇa inquired as follows: Who are you? Whose wife or daughter are you? Who is the man lying here? It appears you are lamenting for this dead body. Don't you recognize Me? I am your eternal friend. You may remember that many times in the past you have consulted Me. Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.28.53 api smarasi cātmānam avijñāta-sakhaḿ sakhe hitvā māḿ padam anvicchan bhauma-bhoga-rato gataḥ SYNONYMS api smarasi — do you remember; ca — also; ātmānam — the Supersoul; avijñāta — unknown; sakham — friend; sakhe — O friend; hitvā — giving up; mām — Me; padam — position; anvicchan — desiring; bhauma — material; bhoga — enjoyment; rataḥ — attached to; gataḥ — you became. TRANSLATION The brāhmaṇa continued: My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world. Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.28.54 haḿsāv ahaḿ ca tvaḿ cārya sakhāyau mānasāyanau abhūtām antarā vaukaḥ sahasra-parivatsarān SYNONYMS haḿsau — two swans; aham — I; ca — and; tvam — you; ca — also; ārya — O great soul; sakhāyau — friends; mānasa-ayanau — together in the Mānasa Lake; abhūtām — became; antarā — separated; vā — indeed; okaḥ — from the original home; sahasra — thousands; pari — successively; vatsarān — years. TRANSLATION My dear gentle friend, both you and I are exactly like two swans. We live together in the same heart, which is just like the Mānasa Lake. Although we have been living together for many thousands of years, we are still far away from our original home. PURPORT The original home of the living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the spiritual world. In the spiritual world both the Lord and the living entities live together very peacefully. Since the living entity remains engaged in the service of the Lord, they both share a blissful life in the spiritual world. However, when the living entity wants to enjoy himself, he falls down into the material world. Even while he is in that position, the Lord remains with him as the Supersoul, his intimate friend. Because of his forgetfulness, the living entity does not know that the Supreme Lord is accompanying him as the Supersoul. In this way the living entity remains conditioned in each and every millennium. Although the Lord follows him as a friend, the living entity, because of forgetful material existence, does not recognize Him. Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 4.28.55 sa tvaḿ vihāya māḿ bandho gato grāmya-matir mahīm vicaran padam adrākṣīḥ kayācin nirmitaḿ striyā SYNONYMS saḥ — that swan; tvam — yourself; vihāya — leaving; mām — Me; bandho — O friend; gataḥ — went; grāmya — material; matiḥ — whose consciousness; mahīm — to earth; vicaran — traveling; padam — position; adrākṣīḥ — you saw; kayācit — by someone; nirmitam — manufactured; striyā — by a woman. TRANSLATION My dear friend, you are now My very same friend. Since you left Me, you have become more and more materialistic, and not seeing Me, you have been traveling in different forms throughout this material world, which was created by some woman. PURPORT When the living entity falls down, he goes into the material world, which was created by the external energy of the Lord. This external energy is described herein as "some woman," or prakṛti. This material world is composed of material elements, ingredients supplied by the mahat-tattva, the total material energy. The material world, created by this external energy, becomes the so-called home of the conditioned soul. Within this material world the conditioned soul accepts different apartments, or different bodily forms, and then travels about. Sometimes he travels in the higher planetary systems and sometimes in the lower systems. Sometimes he travels in higher species of life and sometimes in lower species. He has been wandering within this material universe since time immemorial. As explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu: brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (Cc. Madhya 19.151) The living entity wanders into many species of life, but he is fortunate when he once again meets his friend, either in person or through His representative. Actually, it is Kṛṣṇa who personally advises all living entities to return home, back to Godhead. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa sends His representative, who, delivering Kṛṣṇa's very message, canvasses all living entities to return home, back to Godhead. Unfortunately the living entity is so greatly attached to material enjoyment that he does not take the instructions of Kṛṣṇa or His representative very seriously. This material tendency is mentioned in this verse as grāmya-matiḥ (sense gratification). The word mahīm means "within this material world." All living entities within this material world are sensually inclined. Consequently they become entangled in different types of bodies and suffer the pangs of material existence. So, where did this type of preaching originate? Narada Muni preached the same way. So, put that in your teeth and chew on it! The story is allegorical, yet the lesson is there and Narada Muni preached the same way as Srila Prabhupada is preaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 but studying the books of Srila Prabhupada for 10 or 12 hours a days is. Let's see if you can do that. There are many times I have spent more than 10 hours in a day studying to books of Srila Prabhupada. If you think that is so easy them why don't you try it. so many hours of reading that? ugh.. that's a lot of remaining in the box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 so many hours of reading that? ugh.. that's a lot of remaining in the box! the box? read my previous post above and get some insight beyond your little closet of self-indulgence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 A book or tape recorder can have the shadow of the nama within it - that is all. Just a vaccuous proclamation without anything to back it up. I would not take Gaour Govinds' Swami's statement just on the basis of his being a swami and having said it and I know him to be a sincere disciple of Srila Prabhupada so why should I accept this statement from you? The sastra we have came before this technology of tape recording so it won't be addressed there. That leaves logic. What logic is there that could lead one to conclude Srila Prabhupada's transcendental sound vibration loses potency just because it is recorded. Strikes me as a very silly position for all the reasons and more that Guruvani already laid out. One other is that our vision of how things work in general is upside down due to material contamination. It is not that things are material until made spiritual. Rather things are spiritual and made material to us by our lack of Krsna consciousness when contemplating them. So exactly what energy of Krsna is it that causes His devotees words to lose their spiritual potency by being recorded? Time to back up the statement with some substantial spiritual logic and not just parrot like statements or you should quit making them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Oh, I forgot to mention Narasingha Maharaja. He is not in ISKCON, but he is certainly a most respectable and honorable disciple of Srila Prabhupada whom I admire greatly. In fact, I think he is probably my favorite one of all, even if he is against the ritvik system. It's men like him that make the ritvik system optional not mandatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 so many hours of reading that? ugh.. that's a lot of remaining in the box! It depends on the quality of that reading. So often if not most often we read Srila Prabhupada's books and all the while our minds are mistranslating the words so as to fit in with the preconceptions held in our minds. This is called reading in the box. The materially molded mind is actually the box. The teachings of the liberated are meant to take us out of our self constructed boxes in which we live imprisioned and deliver us to the Land of Freedom. For this to happen we must be hearing properly, with spiritual receptivity, and not working over the words with our materially conditioned preconceptions. !2 hours of liberation or 12 hours of living in the box is up to us and if we hear or HEAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 the VERY GIST of Gaudiya philosophy is that Amnaya is the basis of brahma-vidya. Please show us the reference in the Gaudiya canon and ACBS's books in this regard oh vedabasevadiji. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Please show us the reference in the Gaudiya canon and ACBS's books in this regard oh vedabasevadiji. http://gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/siksa/siksa-2.html Chapter 2 - The Words of the Scriptures are the final proof What is the meaning of amnaya vakya (authoritative statement or knowledge)? Concerning this, there is the following karika (verse): amnayah srutayah saksad brahma-vidyeti visrutah guru-parampara praptah visva kartuh hi brahmanah Ämnaya refers to the scriptures called brahma vidya or knowledge of brahman originating from Brahma, the creator of the universe and passed down by disciplic succession. That the knowledge was passed down from Brahma is stated in Mundaka Upanisad. brahma devanam prathamah sambabhuva visvasya karta bhuvanasya gopta sa brahma-vidyam sarva-vidya- pratistham atharvaya jyestha-putraya praha yenaksaram purusam veda satyam provaca tam tattvato brahma-vidyam Brahma, the creator of the universe and protector of the worlds, the first among the devatas, taught brahma vidya, the basis of all knowledge, to his eldest son Atharva. He taught that knowledge by which the indestructible Supreme Person can be known in his true form Mundaka Upanisad 1.1.1, 1.2.13 Brhadaranyaka Upanisad says: asya mahato bhutasya nihsvasitam etad rgvedo yajur vedah sama vedatharvangirasa itihasah puranam vidya upanisadah slokah sutrany anuvyakhyanani sarvani nihsvasitani From the Supreme Person's breath came the four Vedas, the histories, the Puranas, the Upanisads, the verses and Sutras and all the anuvyakhyas (commentaries). The word "histories" refers to Ramayana and Mahabharat and other similar works. The word "puranas" refers to the eighteen major Puranas of which Srimad Bhagavatam is supreme, and eighteen secondary puranas (upapuranas). Upanisads refers to the eleven Upanisads such as Isa, Kena, Katha, and Prasna. "Verses" refers to the collection of verses in meters such as anustup composed by rsis. "Sutra" refers to the concise statements which explain the meaning of the Vedas, written by major teachers. Anuvyakhya refers to commentaries on the sutras written by great teachers. All of these are called amnaya. The primary meaning of amnaya is Veda.1 Caitanya Caritamrta also accepts the authority of the Vedas. svatah pramana veda- pramana-siromani laksana haite svatah pramanata hani The self-evident Vedic literatures are the highest evidence of all, but if these literatures are interpreted, their self-evident nature is lost. C.C. Adi 7, 139 pramanera madhye sruti pramana pradhana sruti ye mukhyartha kahe sei se pramana svatah pramana veda yei satya kahe laksana karile svatah pramanya hani haye Although there is other evidence, the evidence given in the Vedic version must be taken as foremost. Vedic versions understood directly are first-class evidence. The Vedic statements are self-evident. Whatever is stated there must be accepted. If we interpret according to our own imagination, the authority of the Vedas is immediately lost. C.C.Madhya 6, 135, 137 The works of the Gosvamis such as the Sandarbhas and Caitanya Caritamrta of Krsna das Kaviraja are included among the anuvyakhyas. Therefore Vedas, Puranas, histories, Upanisads, Vedanta Sutras, the commentaries by the Vaisnava acaryas are all considered authoritative knowledge. These sources of authoritative knowledge are glorified in the Bhagavatam. kalena nasta pralaye vaniyam veda samjnita mayadau brahmane prokta yasyam dharmo mad atmakah tena prokta svaputraya manave yabhir bhutani bhidyante bhutanam patayas tatha evam prakrti-vaicitryad bidyante matayo nrnam parasparyena kesamcit pasanda-matayo'pare ( Sri Krsna speaks to Uddhava) I first recited the Vedic message to Lord Brahma, telling him about the ultimate path of pure devotion. That message is eternal. At the time of devastation, it disappears and at the time of creation I explain it clearly to Lord Brahma. Brahma spoke this knowledge to his son Manu and others. Thereafter, the devatas, rsis, and mankind all received this knowledge. The living entities and their lords are all different, receiving natures according to the three modes, goodness, passion and ignorance. According to these different natures, various philosophies have been produced by various interpretation of the meaning. O Uddhava, those who received the actual statements of the Vedas through guru parampara anuvyakhya (explanations) from Brahma have the real truth. All others philosophies have become the servants of various offensive teachings. S.B.11.14.3,7,82 Here it is clearly understood that the Brahma sampradaya has existed from the time of creation. In this Brahma sampradaya, the pure message of the Vedas has come down through the guru parampara and has preserved the real teachings of bhagavat dharma. Thus these teachings are called amnaya (a + mna (to remember)+ ya: that which is learned by passing down) Those who do not accept the brahma sampradaya which is shown to be authoritative by such statements as "Brahma, the lord of the universe, is the first student of Narayana, Lord of Vaikuntha"3 are called preachers of irrelevant philosophy (pasanda mata) by Krsna. Though a person accepts the teachings of Lord Caitanya, if he cannot accept this parampara line, is he not most deceptive? The fortunate people consider this knowledge handed down in parampara as the best of proofs. This is Lord Caitanya's first teaching. 4 In the Tattva Sandarbha (9.10), Jiva Gosvami says: athaivam sucitanam sri-krsna-vacya-vacakata-laksana- sambandha-tad-bhajana-laksana-vidheya- tat-prema-laksana- prayojanakhyanam arthanam nirnayaya pramanam tavad vinirniyate tatra purusasya bhramadi-dosa-catustayatvat sutaram acintyalaukika-vastu-sparsayogyatvac ca tat- pratyaksadinyapi sadosani tatas tani na pramananity anadi-siddha-sarva- purusa-paramparasu sarvalaukikalaukika- jnana-nidanatvad aprakrta-vacana-laksano veda evasmakam sarvatita- sarvasraya- sarvacintyascarya-svabhavam vastu vividisatam pramanam I have just mentioned sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. In order to explain the meaning of these terms, I first will define the nature of authoritative proof. Mankind is by nature afflicted with the four defects (bhrama etc.) and therefore cannot understand inconceivable I, non-material matters. Direct sense perception will always be faulty, and therefore sense perception, inference and other normal means of knowledge cannot be considered as authoritative means of knowledge. The only means of knowledge (pramana) for persons desiring knowledge of the ultimate supreme object, the ultimate shelter, the inconceivable, endowed with the most remarkable nature, is the Veda. The Veda is perfect knowledge concerning both material and spiritual topics, handed down through a parampara of realized persons. Having established the authority of the Vedic knowledge, Jiva Gosvami then shows how the Puranas contain the same message as the Vedas, and establishes the Srimad Bhagavatam as the best of all pramanas. The same qualities which make Srimad Bhagavatam the best of all knowledge are present in the words of Brahma, Narada,Vyasa, Sukadeva, and in the writings of Madhvacarya and his followers Vijayadvaja, Brahmatirtha and Vyasatirtha. By all these statements, it is evident that the Brahma sampradaya is the sampradaya of Lord Caitanya and his followers. Ascertaining this, Kavikarnapura has written the sequence of the parampara in his work Gaura Ganodesa Dipika. The Vedanta Sutra commentator Baladeva Vidyabhusana also confirms this parampara line. Anyone who does not accept this parampara is without doubt the greatest enemy of the followers of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Concerning authoritative knowledge of the Vedas, the following should be especially noted. The Vedic statements are perfect and self-evident. There is no need for interpreting an indirect meaning. The meaning is understood by hearing the words with their direct meaning. "The son of Saci is directly the son of Nanda." On hearing these words a person can understand that Lord Caitanya is none other than Krsna. The phrase "cowherd on the Ganga" however makes no sense by taking the direct meaning of the words. By indirect interpretation one can understand that the phrase means " A cowherd village on the bank of the Ganga." In Vedic statements one should not resort to interpretation unless necessary. In the Chandogya Upanisad it is said, "I surrender to the energy through Syama. I surrender to Syama through His energy." When a sensible meaning can be derived from taking the direct meaning of the words, why should we infer that the words "syama" means "the impersonal Brahman in the heart, " as Sankaracarya does? Liberated persons worship the forms of Radha and Krsna. This is the real meaning of the statement. Because of this, in the Caitanya Caritamrta it is stated that by resorting to indirect meanings the value of the Vedas as authority is lost. There are many varieties of interpretations. Jagadisa mentions in Sabda Sakti Prakasika that there are countless types of interpretation, such as jahatsvartha, ajahatsvartha, nirudha and adhunika. jahat svarthajahat svartha nirudhadhunikadikah laksana vividhas tabhir laksakam syad anekadha However, none of these interpretive means can be used to define the nature of something spiritual. Rather, in doing so, they give rise to misinterpretation. Sankaracarya argues that direct meaning of words cannot be used in relation to indescribable phenomena; therefore, the indirect interpretation must be used for find the meaning of Vedic statements. Madhvacarya has objected to this as follows: nangikrtabhidha yasya laksana tasya no bhavet nasti gramah kutah sima na putro janakam vina In examining the power of words, it is seen that where direct meaning is not accepted, interpretation also has no place. Where there exists no village, can one ague about its extent or size? Where there is no father, can one speak of his son? (Tattvamuktavali 22) If the direct meaning is rejected in relation to spiritual matters, then what use is interpretation of the same words, which must depend ultimately upon the direct meaning? Therefore the intelligent man will reject interpretation and accept the direct connotative power of the words of the scriptures in trying to understand the absolute truth. The following karika summarizes the point: ya adikavaye tene hrda brahma-sanatanam sa caitanyah kalau saksad amarjit tam matam subham vipralipsa pramadas ca karanapatavam bhramah manusanam vicaresu syad dhi dosa catustayam tad-adhoksaja-tattvesu durnivaryam budhair api apauruseya-vakhyani pramanam tatra kevalam pratyaksam anumanam ca tad adhinataya kvacit Lord Caitanya, who bestowed the Vedic knowledge unto the heart of Brahma, has appeared in Kali Yuga in Navadvipa. He has revealed the pure essence of the Vedas, freeing the pure Vedic philosophy from the contamination of Kali Yuga. The human being in concluding anything must certainly indulge in the four faults of error, omission, limitation and cheating. In relation to spiritual matters, even the greatest learned men cannot avoid these four defects. Therefore, in spiritual matters, the only authority is the word of Veda, which has no human author. All other proofs, such as sense perception, inference, simile and tradition, when they are in agreement with the Vedic word, can be useful and relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 amnayah praha tattvam harim ihaparamam sarva-saktim rasabdhim tad bhinnamsams ca jivan prakrtikavalitan tad vimuktams ca bhavat bhedabheda-prakasam sakalam api hareh sadhanam suddha-bhaktim sadhyam tat pritim evety upadisati harir-gauracandro bhaje tam Here, in one verse, Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given the very gist of Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy. He says, "We are not interested in the opinion of anyone ordinary: there is no value to any opinion other than what is revealed truth (amnaya)." Amnaya means revealed truth or scripture that is coming through a reliable source: the guru-parampara, a genuine succession of gurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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