Om Ganapathiyai Namah

[Guest guest]

 

It appears that in India when somebody is born into a family they go through their whole life stuck with the family deity and tradition. No matter which god your family worships that god is supreme and no amount of proper shastric evidence will ever change their mind.

 

That is why Hindus can never really be objective about the Vedic siddhanta because they are programmed and indoctrinated into the family tradition and the family god. Out of sentiment and family loyalty they go through their whole life with blinders on simply denying anything except what they learned in their family tradition.

 

Every Hindu thinks his family god is the supreme God.

Unfortunately, they all can't be right.

 

They can't be objective because of sentiment and family ties.

 

Here in the west, we get the opportunity to look at the Vedic siddhanta objectively with out so much of this blind devotion to the family deity or the village deity.

 

So, we make our judgements without all this pressure from family tradition and family religion.

 

LMAO!!! Look who's talking about being objective!!! Iskconites and Ritviks are the most conditioned, judgmental and controlling and narrow minded sect!!! You guys can never get out of the Prabhupada shadow. So much so that You don't even write and glorify such high devotees of Lord Krsna as MIrabai and Goswami Tulsidas (who had direct perception and darshan of Lord Ramachanrdra)!! thes personalities never thought of starting their own propaganda and cults!! And were way above Mr Dey for sure who called himself Prabhupada and others as rascals and fools!!! In this cult, all scriptures are a no no to read! Unless translated by Prabhupada. And you are talking about Hindus being non objective!! Who can be a more objective, liberal and deeper than the Hindu?? All engulfing, all embracing, all encompassing!!! Deep as an ocean!!! That has everything in it!!! Absolute! Personal, impersonal, attribute, attribute-less, everything!!! The complete picture!! Whole!!! This is Hinduism -the ageless Sanatana Dharma!! Its not a 500 years old sect. It compromises of all these 500 and thousands of years old sect and more!!! Hinduism is not a religion as per the modern day understanding of religion. Its is the ageless Sanatana Dharma. This is Hinduism. This was too much for Prabhupada. he wanted to establish his own narrow thing. So he put it down calling it "hodge-podge. This is not so. Whatever Gaudiya Vaishnavism comprises of can well be practiced in Hinduism and is practiced without any sort of condemnation. There is nothing NEW that the Hare Krsnas are offering. Bhakti yoga is an essential part of Hinduism. Just taking one aspect of Hinduism and wrapping it in a 'new' packing and marketing it in the western spirituality dry market does not mean that Hinduism a whole has become void, hodge-podge or inferior in anyway. If you take a stream out of the ocean and make a narrow stream doesn't mean that the ocean has lost something or has become inferior. Stop putting down Hinduism, even if you cannot understand its wholeness and ocean like depth. I appreciate your effort with your stream. Flow with it and reach the end of your journey. But please don't condemn the ocean from which it has been born. If gaudiya vaishnavism claims that before Chaitanya, bhakti yoga was dead, then this wild claim is dead wrong!

We learn to appreciate what others are doing our own thing. This is also an important virtue of HINDUISM. While you are still away from the divine love, you condemn and put down. Once you touch it, love for everyone comes naturally. This is seeing God in all living being - the message of Krishna.

love and regards,

NAMAH SHIVAYA!

Nikhileshwaranandaya Namah!

 

YOGKRIYA

[Guruvani]

 

If gaudiya vaishnavism claims that before Chaitanya, bhakti yoga was dead, then this wild claim is dead wrong!

 

YOGKRIYA

 

then you don't know anything about Gaudiya Vaishnavism and you don't want to know anything about Gaudiya Vaishnavism, so you shouldn't come and start fights with people you don't know anything about.

 

ISKCON is a corperate entity.

It is not a religion.

Hare Krishna devotees don't follow ISKCON, they follow Bhakti-yoga.

[Guest guest]

 

then you don't know anything about Gaudiya Vaishnavism and you don't want to know anything about Gaudiya Vaishnavism, so you shouldn't come and start fights with people you don't know anything about.

 

ISKCON is a corperate entity.

It is not a religion.

Hare Krishna devotees don't follow ISKCON, they follow Bhakti-yoga.

 

I've studied gaudiyas enough for the past 20 years Guruvani! There's nothing astonishingly that I need to know about them generally speaking. I just don't love to do that quotes / terminology copy paste thing that you love doing. Nor do I prefer cramming Prabhupada ten hours a day to this end. As I've stated earlier numerous times, I don't come to start a fight at all. But to stop one. That you start bashing Hindus, Shiva followers, Devi followers and other sections of Sanatana Dharma just to perch your own sention above the rest. God positioning and my sampradaya above other sampradaya is the root cause of all fights religious, stemming from ahankara fanatically attached to a particular line of thought. I'm against bashing Hindus by any sect. Nor do I myself prefer to bash anyone. However, I have vociferated against the Vishnu over Shiva, Krsna over Shiva, Vaishnavism over Hinduism, Shivaism, Shaktism mindless agitations.

How do you deal in the U.S. of A. with issues like whites are superior than blacks of KKK ideology? Well this is a subtle religious variant of the same, when you bash all others and try perch yourself on a higher asana while propagating in your "preachings" how shortcoming Hindus and Shivaites are. That's it.

Regards,

Yogkriya

[theist]

Yogakriya,

 

Your protests are so much smokescreen covering your own intolerance of others views. Guruvani did not search you out on some forum which you frequent to start a fight instead you came to him to start a fight.

 

I can easily tolerate your holding a different position from mine and teaching it to others. Why can't you tolerate our having a different view from yours and teaching it. I know it is frustrating not being able to be in control but then that is the point of mono-theism...only the Supreme Lord is in control.

[Ahara Vimaladvaita]

 

Om Gaanapadhyayai Namah, Om Gananathaya Namah

 

This God of knowledge and the remover of obstacles is also the older son of Lord Shiva. Lord Ganesha is also called Vinayak ( knowledgeable ) or Vighneshwer (god to remove obstacles). He is worshipped, or at least remembered, in the beginning of any auspicious performance for blessings and auspiciousness.

 

He has four hands, elephant's head and a big belly. His vehicle is a tiny mouse. In his hands he carries a rope (to carry devotees to the truth), an axe (to cut devotees' attachments), and a sweet dessert ball -laddoo- (to reward devotees for spiritual activity). His fourth hand's palm is always extended to bless people.

 

A unique combination of his elephant-like head and a quick moving tiny mouse vehicle represents tremendous wisdom, intellegence, and presence of mind.

 

Hindus firmly believe that Lord Ganesha(Ganpati)is the Obstacle remover and quote that every other entity be it God or Human being needs to bow to him in order to succeed in whatever they are pursuing. This has been quoted in many instances including Puranas and Ethihasas.

This was the sole purpose he was created and even the Trinity of GODS offer their prayers to him before any of their actions including Lord Shiva himself…

 

In this website i noted that every topic somehow ends with Krsna being the only way to end all sufferings and be prosperous,since this website is still named as Hindu-religion.net

instead of ISCKON.com i would like to remind as Hindus we worship the respective gods for their respective roles and not call other gods as Demi Gods and only Krsna as supreme.This is never the case in Hinduism, Lord Shiva has his role, Lord Brahma his and Lord Vishnu his and all other gods their roles to bless the devotee and all trinity had no beginning, no end…Its not like Lord Shiva is superior and Visnu inferior etc…its definitely not that way, so please do not spread that kind of a thought.

 

I am sorry to say that is the kind of thought that’s been spread on here.

 

Hinduism is a Poly Theistic religion and not a Mono Theistic one,so please respect Hinduism and the beliefs of Hindus or else atleast change the website name to Prabupada.com or ISCKON.com,this is a very humble request from a ardent Hindu.

Hinduism is already facing with lot of attacks from Christianity and Islam over the years, we don’t need another one like that, instead of deleting this post give it a thought, respect all GODS or atleast give time for people to decide on what i said rather you delete it because i pointed out about Hinduism being Polytheistic.

 

If you still feel that only Krsna is supreme and all other GODS are demigods then challenge it openly, don’t come under the disguise of a Hindu or a Hindu Website, there seems to be no relation between your concept and Hinduism.

 

Advaitam and so many other concepts are merged with Hinduism where as Krsna movement has no acceptance of all that but conveniently use Hinduism and Hindus money,support when needed.

 

Let me know how many Hindus agree to this, its a age old concept and every Hindu will be aware of Lord Ganpati and his powers.

So let us see how many Hindus are allowed to post their views on here....

 

Om Vigneshwaraya Namah

 

Om Namah Shivayah

 

Om Namoh Narayana

 

Jai Sree Ram

I don't think that i have ever read so good post!!!!!!! I will say like this: There are many krshna devotees, but fev are Hindu. Those non-Hindu people (Cristyans and the others, but mostli cristyans) don't even take their time for studi hindu history, mythologi,... More i look at those people, more i think that they think that the god is living in clouds and that he is watching them. But when there is something wrong, they sey that god will take care of that. But where is god? Will he jump in front of you? He is in your heart, he is you! I think that only Hindu (i consider here yoga, tantra,... too - hope that is ok) people understand spiritual world, and only hindu has the quaestion to all our answers. Gods/goddesses - How can only krshna be supirior to others? It is ok with that thinking, but keep that for your self! You may offend others and don't force them that they must become krshna devotees! In west there are Jehov witnesses and they are walking form door to door and press on people that the Jehov is the only supirior god and that only he deserves to be "worshiped"! That is not funny and don't convert people in something else. That is serious. What if that what you have learned is not true? There are two ways: eather you are wrong or i am wrong! Who knows??!!! If you are wrong, than wait 100 births, to remove that mistake. I think that the greatest sin of a human is, that he never take his time to know god in his "real form" and that he belives all that some saint hase write or say. What if he is wrong? But if you belive that that is the only truth, then that is OK!! And why don't you discovere that truth throught love to god or goddess? Why don't you meditate on his form, on his mantra, on his yantra? That is how you will know him! You will develop intuition for that!

 

And i can remmember when i've read a sentenc: There is no consciousness if it's not Krshna consciousness! So, firstly, you have offendet many people; secondly, some people may have start to doubt about all;....

 

I'm not saying that all krshna is wrong, i just want to say that keep that idea for yourself! If you love krshna so much, then why you are woried about others faith so much. Isn't better that you love him, that you transforme that thought in love to krshna? For you krshna devotess, only krshna is important, let other to find their own god or godeess to which they have more love. It's their decision and if they have decided that, so that is cool for them! There must be some connection!

 

I'm Kali devotee and i never say that other goddess or gods are minor! The only different betwen Kali Ma and other gods and goddess is that i love Kali Ma more that everything. I will put it this way: I only take here energy, and if there is any energy that i will need i will take that too, but i will never forget on Kali Ma energy.

 

Shiva, Vishnu, Krshna, Ganesh, Rudra, Isha,..... They are all one, just diferend form or energy!

 

With no insulting,

Ahara Vimaladvaita

[Guest guest]

 

Yogakriya,

 

Your protests are so much smokescreen covering your own intolerance of others views. Guruvani did not search you out on some forum which you frequent to start a fight instead you came to him to start a fight.

 

I can easily tolerate your holding a different position from mine and teaching it to others. Why can't you tolerate our having a different view from yours and teaching it. I know it is frustrating not being able to be in control but then that is the point of mono-theism...only the Supreme Lord is in control.

 

Dear Theist,

 

Well, at times, intolerance does result in intolerance. Doesn't it? How long can the Hindus keep mum and listen to all trashing them? How long?

 

I agree and have agreed in the past with your having a different view. This different view is also nothing new from Hinduism, but just an aspect of it.

Your having a different view and believing in it is not a problem at all.

This is NOT the problem really. The problem arises when you go and preach out to the rest of the world that they are hodge-podge and you are cool!! That's when the problem arises. In Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma, There are people who worship Kali and there are people who worship Shiva, yet there are people who worship Rama or Krsna. And there is NO problem!!! know why? cuz if my neighbor worships shiva and I worship Krsna, I don't go over to him and preach that oh ur shiva is at my krsna's beck n call so why don't u drop him n come to my krsna. he is superior n ur faith is for unintelligent people. Naturally, the guy would have a problem with me.

Do you get my point? If Guruvani believes in Ritvik philosophy and believes in taking deeksha from a tape-recorder, then fine. I have nothing to do with it. But if he announces publicly that all Shivaites do is smoke hash n shiva is a mere demi-semi-god sort of a thing... then there IS a problem! If he publicly broadcasts that a thousands of years old Hinduism is low n inferior to a his views, then there is a problem. Because he is publicly belittling sanatana dharma, Hinduism that contains many many sampradayas like his.

This is a political stance on his part. It has nothing to do with spirituality.

And this is the only problem. And someone should not listen to this BS silently. And I've made my position clear through several posts on this forum before too. I've made several compromises. But your philosophy doesn't make any compromises. Its a one way traffic. A one way view that accepts only your position and rejects all other positions. Fine. Its your belief. And -

We need to respect your belief. Why can't you respect ours and not trash it? This is the only problem. I hope I could clarify my 'intolerance' towards intolerance.

With due regards and respects,

 

YogKriya.

[Guest guest]

 

I don't think that i have ever read so good post!!!!!!! I will say like this: There are many krshna devotees, but fev are Hindu. Those non-Hindu people (Cristyans and the others, but mostli cristyans) don't even take their time for studi hindu history, mythologi,... More i look at those people, more i think that they think that the god is living in clouds and that he is watching them. But when there is something wrong, they sey that god will take care of that. But where is god? Will he jump in front of you? He is in your heart, he is you! I think that only Hindu (i consider here yoga, tantra,... too - hope that is ok) people understand spiritual world, and only hindu has the quaestion to all our answers. Gods/goddesses - How can only krshna be supirior to others? It is ok with that thinking, but keep that for your self! You may offend others and don't force them that they must become krshna devotees! In west there are Jehov witnesses and they are walking form door to door and press on people that the Jehov is the only supirior god and that only he deserves to be "worshiped"! That is not funny and don't convert people in something else. That is serious. What if that what you have learned is not true? There are two ways: eather you are wrong or i am wrong! Who knows??!!! If you are wrong, than wait 100 births, to remove that mistake. I think that the greatest sin of a human is, that he never take his time to know god in his "real form" and that he belives all that some saint hase write or say. What if he is wrong? But if you belive that that is the only truth, then that is OK!! And why don't you discovere that truth throught love to god or goddess? Why don't you meditate on his form, on his mantra, on his yantra? That is how you will know him! You will develop intuition for that!

 

And i can remmember when i've read a sentenc: There is no consciousness if it's not Krshna consciousness! So, firstly, you have offendet many people; secondly, some people may have start to doubt about all;....

 

I'm not saying that all krshna is wrong, i just want to say that keep that idea for yourself! If you love krshna so much, then why you are woried about others faith so much. Isn't better that you love him, that you transforme that thought in love to krshna? For you krshna devotess, only krshna is important, let other to find their own god or godeess to which they have more love. It's their decision and if they have decided that, so that is cool for them! There must be some connection!

 

I'm Kali devotee and i never say that other goddess or gods are minor! The only different betwen Kali Ma and other gods and goddess is that i love Kali Ma more that everything. I will put it this way: I only take here energy, and if there is any energy that i will need i will take that too, but i will never forget on Kali Ma energy.

 

Shiva, Vishnu, Krshna, Ganesh, Rudra, Isha,..... They are all one, just diferend form or energy!

 

With no insulting,

Ahara Vimaladvaita

 

Yes nice post This is the Hindu view alright. A view that is not radical, but let you love your form of God with devotion and love and propagate it to others.

 

Om khargang chakra-gadeshu-chapa-parighAn shulang bhushundIng shirah

shankhang sanda-dhatIng karistri-nayanAng sarbAnga-bhushAbritam.

nIlAshma-dyutimAsya pAda-dashakAng sebe mahAkalikAng

yamastou-chhaite harou kamalajye hantung madhung kaitavam.

 

Translation

 

Aum, holding a scimitar, disk, mace, arrows and bow, lance, club, a skull and a conch shell in Her ten hands. The three-eyed goddess, Her body covered with ornaments, Her countenance with the brilliance of blue diamonds, with ten limbs. We offer our service to MahaKali, She who Brahma praised for protection from the demons madhu and kaitava, when Vishnu was in sleep.

 

Nam Shri Vasudevaya.

Regards,

 

YogKriya

[Ganeshprasad]

 

It appears that in India when somebody is born into a family they go through their whole life stuck with the family deity and tradition. No matter which god your family worships that god is supreme and no amount of proper shastric evidence will ever change their mind.

 

That is why Hindus can never really be objective about the Vedic siddhanta because they are programmed and indoctrinated into the family tradition and the family god. Out of sentiment and family loyalty they go through their whole life with blinders on simply denying anything except what they learned in their family tradition.

 

Every Hindu thinks his family god is the supreme God.

Unfortunately, they all can't be right.

 

They can't be objective because of sentiment and family ties.

 

Here in the west, we get the opportunity to look at the Vedic siddhanta objectively with out so much of this blind devotion to the family deity or the village deity.

 

So, we make our judgements without all this pressure from family tradition and family religion.

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Pranam

 

I rarely post on this forum because although, supposedly this is a Hindu site unfortunately it is mainly run and participated by Iskcon followers and their off shoot, so instead I observe from distance the occasional some good post but unfortunately it is mainly tearing each other apart trying to make some cheap points.

 

I had many times stopped my urge to respond to some ridicules accusation and dame right abuse on Hindus, the cradle of Vedic civilisation.

 

The general undercurrent from most and Guruvani in particular has made some gross attacks not only on Hindus but Lord Shiva and their devotees not even spared Lord Krishna, I mean marrying a Gorilla. Hello where was your objective study of Vedic story never mind the siddhanta?

 

I am sorry I do not wish to be personal but when you ridicule the age old tradition of sadhus, performing their sadhna doing great tapas, not for faint hearted I may add, some thing a western observer may find a weird practice and it is understandable, but we Hindus hold them in high regards.

 

Unfortunately you betray your ignorance of Shastra and Bhagvatam in particular for if you had given a little thought, the very narrator of the purana goes naked, the great Sukhdev Go swami.

 

I really do not need to defend Hindus practice of worship the objectivity and moral upbringing one may easily find faults and there are many but we have to learn to look in to the mirror.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[mahak]

my only concern is that in the height of our sectarianism, we forget Gods position among his quarreling cvhildren.

 

Srila Prabhupada perfectly taught of the transcendentalist. He taught Brahman, paramatman, and bhagavan realization. He gives us Bhagavad Gita As It is.

 

That some, if not most, of his disciples choose to choose the sectarian route is unfortunate, but those who are offended at them for this immaturity are just as immature. A true transcendentalist, regardless of favoring brahman, paramatman on bhagavan realizaqtion, will surely be above the frey.

 

So, hindus, the title of this topic is praise of Lord Ganesha. It is why I was attracted to this topic, I want to worship Lord Ganesha. Why do you accues me of being infidel because I want to worship Lord Ganesha?

 

Hare Krsna, mahaksadasa (ACBSP)

[Guest guest]

 

my only concern is that in the height of our sectarianism, we forget Gods position among his quarreling cvhildren.

Shri Ganeshaya Namah!!

There is an aim of life that we elevate our lower self (bounded by our chitt vritis) to the higher self using this body, mind and the material world, to rise spiritually to reach the Paramatma/Brahma. This could be done in ways more than one. But I'm not feeling sure that the God positioning agenda as the top priority comes on top of the list as aim of life anywhere. In the Vedic concept, there are four purusharthas of human life viz. Dharma, Artha, Kama, Moksha. Glorifying God may not exactly be the God positioning thing in the way it is done by dear Hare Krsnas. It has become more of a My political party is above yours or My leader is above yours and then mutual fighting over the issue. The glorifying is taken out in a bullish manner at times in this light which is not at all appreciable. Besides, I still feel that to position a God is beyond our capacity really. Its fine to tell about position to others. But as it is obvious, there are two sides to the story, and the sides are Shiva and Vishnu and in between is the Shakti. One sided followers are able to see only the side facing them.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada perfectly taught of the transcendentalist. He taught Brahman, paramatman, and bhagavan realization. He gives us Bhagavad Gita As It is.

SP taught paramatma realization? I don't really know of this. I know Krsna taught Arjuna of paramatma realization. He gives the process of meditating on the divine within the Agya Chakra and Anahat Chakra. And to honest, there is no reaching some divine sitting atop another planet without touching the divine within yourself, your paramatma. And that's why Krsna along with emphasizing the importance of bhakti gives this Yogic Kriya to Arjuna. Of course it is not devoid of bhakti or is not to be limited for yogis. For some reason my Hare Krsna friends love to believe that only they are into bhakti and that yogis do not practice any bhakti but some mechanical voidism sort of thing. Which of course does not near any truth. The same bhakti magnifies a million times within the meditating consciousness leading to samadhi as the super-conscious transcends to the higher plane of understanding through experience... flowing as nectar of divine gyana, bliss and love. SP's giving the BG as it is is very much appreciable. But of course it is thoroughly colored by his school of thought that he considered as the only true point of view. The understanding of Gita 'as it was' could open more horizons in terms of sadhna, as parts dealing with yogic practice were merely summed up hastily into concepts of sankirtana movement and Hare Krsna chanting, dismissing and closing doors on all other types of practices, including one given by Lord Krsna to Arjuna the bhakta, the warrior, the mahayogi. But, Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's bringing the message of Gita to the west and propagating the teachings of Krsna and effort in the direction of developing Krsna bhakti is invaluable indeed for many lives in the west.

 

 

That some, if not most, of his disciples choose to choose the sectarian route is unfortunate, but those who are offended at them for this immaturity are just as immature. A true transcendentalist, regardless of favoring brahman, paramatman on bhagavan realizaqtion, will surely be above the frey.

Yes you seem right on this dear Mahak. But the trend catches infectiously and I'm afraid the people choosing the sectarian route (as was also reflected at times in Bhaktivedanta's speeches), is more than 'some'. People who are above them, don't take them much seriously either and silently engage in their own worship and sadhna, sometimes disturbed by a vagabond 'devotee' trying to preach them that they are not right or something.

 

 

So, hindus, the title of this topic is praise of Lord Ganesha. It is why I was attracted to this topic, I want to worship Lord Ganesha. Why do you accues me of being infidel because I want to worship Lord Ganesha?

 

Hare Krsna, mahaksadasa (ACBSP)

Its nice of you to get attracted to Ganesh worship as well. As your words indicate, you follow Bhaktivedanta's philosophy who never gave Ganesha worship or any method thereof. Nor did he recommend it. What's more, in your lineage, in Havan (you call it yagya) ceremonies, no Ganesha evocation is done at the beginning, which is an absolute established Vedic norm. Its interesting to know how did you develop this inclination towards Shri Ganesh worship? And if you worship Ganesha and how and why? Do you chant a Ganapati mantra?

What is ACBSP abbreviation? Is this your title? Thanks.

With due respects (and apologies if you didn't like anything I said),

Hare Krishna! Namah Shivaya!

 

Yogkriya

[mahak]

Hare Krsna. I never do it, but I wrote ACBSP after my name in this topic to indicate that I am an initiated disciple of Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The practice of using these initials after ones name is an ISKCON practice, and Im definitely not a member of that organization, since 1975. However, Srila Prabhupada is referred to as Jagat Guru, meaning he is my Guru, not just ISKCON's.

 

Srila Prabhupada taught Bhagavad Gita, most extensively. The main primary education for his disciples, largely westerners who were disenfranchised due to a cultural enlightenment that had no apparent explanation. The core of his disciples were properly raised in the judeo-christian world, but had thrown away those babies with the bathwater of materialistic religiosity which went with it.

 

Bhagavad Gita contains the whole truth of ones self. It is the living entity dying from frustration submitting to the Supreme Guru, who never is away from our sides at any time. Paramatma Realization if fully explained in Srila Prabhupada Purports to his masterpiece gift to the world. Srila Prabhupada teaches me the essence of hinduism, christianity, akkadian, samerian, egyptian, druidism, zoroastrianism, sufism. All cultures aspiring to seek the self must seek the Superior being, and there is no description of God better than how Krsna describes His personality to arjuna:

 

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Yes, I will tell you of My splendorous manifestations, but only of those which are prominent, O Arjuna, for My opulence is limitless. I am the Supersoul, O Arjuna, seated in the hearts of all living entities. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings. Of the Adityas I am Vishnu, of lights I am the radiant sun, of the Maruts I am Marici, and among the stars I am the moon. Of the Vedas I am the Sama Veda; of the demigods I am Indra, the king of heaven; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force [consciousness]. Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva, of the Yakshas and Rakshasas I am the Lord of wealth [Kuvera], of the Vasus I am fire [Agni], and of mountains I am Meru. Of priests, O Arjuna, know Me to be the chief, Brihaspati. Of generals I am Kartikeya, and of bodies of water I am the ocean. Of the great sages I am Bhrigu; of vibrations I am the transcendental om. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names [japa], and of immovable things I am the Himalayas. Of all trees I am the banyan tree, and of the sages among the demigods I am Narada. Of the Gandharvas I am Citraratha, and among perfected beings I am the sage Kapila. Of horses know Me to be Uccaihsrava, produced during the churning of the ocean for nectar. Of lordly elephants I am Airavata, and among men I am the monarch. Of weapons I am the thunderbolt; among cows I am the surabhi. Of causes for procreation I am Kandarpa, the god of love, and of serpents I am Vasuki. Of the many-hooded Nagas I am Ananta, and among the aquatics I am the demigod Varuna. Of departed ancestors I am Aryama, and among the dispensers of law I am Yama, the lord of death. Among the Daitya demons I am the devoted Prahlada, among subduers I am time, among beasts I am the lion, and among birds I am Garuda. Of purifiers I am the wind, of the wielders of weapons I am Rama, of fishes I am the shark, and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges. Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the self, and among logicians I am the conclusive truth. Of letters I am the letter A, and among compound words I am the dual compound. I am also inexhaustible time, and of creators I am Brahma. I am all-devouring death, and I am the generating principle of all that is yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. Of the hymns in the Sama Veda I am the Brihat-sama, and of poetry I am the Gayatri. Of months I am Margasirsha [November-December], and of seasons I am flower-bearing spring. I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong. Of the descendants of Vrishni I am Vasudeva, and of the Pandavas I am Arjuna. Of the sages I am Vyasa, and among great thinkers I am Usana. Among all means of suppressing lawlessness I am punishment, and of those who seek victory I am morality. Of secret things I am silence, and of the wise I am the wisdom. Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being -- moving or nonmoving -- that can exist without Me. O mighty conqueror of enemies, there is no end to My divine manifestations. What I have spoken to you is but a mere indication of My infinite opulences.

Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor. But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."

 

So, from the education I have been given, I never even slightly deride the positions or the personalities of those who Krsna empowers, associates with, employs as representative. If I fail to give Lord Ganesha his due, Lord Krsna will not be pleased to reveal himself to me. If I say something totally ignorant about Lord Siva or those who have become a sort of heroes to me personally, Lords Yama and Goddess Yami, how will I ever take my place is I forget my very swarupa?

 

I dont need special mantras to worship ganesha. As the story of King Guha the hunter, as told by him to Sri Sri Sita Rama and sesabalarama appearing as Laksmana, his worship is accepted by Lord Siva as far superior to anything performed by the brahmana class. When I see his form, I remember his story of his one mistake, how he failed to recognize Lord Siva, his Father. That is my mantra, that is my worshipo. And Srila Prabhupada personally taught me this style of bhakti yoga as well, which is called Visnu smaranam, rememberance of the lila-guna-rupa-nama of Lord Visnu and everything connected with him.

 

The teaching from bhagavad gita above is visnu smaranam, in a very practical manner. It enables the bhakti yogi to be fully krsna conscious when he sees a shark (a very good yoga technique for the surfer types). When I play nine ball and speak of sacrede geometry, I can be krsna conscious because he is the CONCLUSIVE TRUTH, the goal of all logicians.

 

Hare Krsna, I pray to Sri Lord Ganesha to remove the impediments of discord among the transcendentalists and those who are eligible to hear and apply the song of the Supreme Lord, Srimad Bhagavad Gita. I sure hope to refrain from offending those who are not in full agreement and readily disregard comments made which may be real eyebrow raisers. ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa

[theist]

 

Dear Theist,

 

Well, at times, intolerance does result in intolerance. Doesn't it? How long can the Hindus keep mum and listen to all trashing them? How long?

Listen when the homosex crowd in Australia put on a hindu themed homosex festival a few years back and distributed pictures of Ganesha depicted in an obscene way (you may remember) I joined the hindus in protests by writing letters of protest and signing petions circulated on hindu forums. And this despite the fact that I am not personally convinced of the existence (or non-existence) of Ganesh. I support the right of hindus to be hindu all they like as freedom of thought and belief is a fundemental right given to every jiva by the Supreme Lord and must be protected.

 

I also will defend the right of the atheist to remain an atheist.

 

But your version of that by coming here and protesting others for holding a belief different from yours is simply petty intolerance. Sorry to be so blunt.

 

 

I agree and have agreed in the past with your having a different view. This different view is also nothing new from Hinduism, but just an aspect of it.

Your having a different view and believing in it is not a problem at all.

This is NOT the problem really. The problem arises when you go and preach out to the rest of the world that they are hodge-podge and you are cool!!

Oh so others are welcome to possess a view different from yours but they as long as don't express it.

 

 

 

That's when the problem arises. In Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma, There are people who worship Kali and there are people who worship Shiva, yet there are people who worship Rama or Krsna. And there is NO problem!!! know why? cuz if my neighbor worships shiva and I worship Krsna, I don't go over to him and preach that oh ur shiva is at my krsna's beck n call so why don't u drop him n come to my krsna. he is superior n ur faith is for unintelligent people. Naturally, the guy would have a problem with me.

Do you get my point?

No one has a right to disturb the minds of others who do not wish to hear our philosophies, yours or mine. But that is exactly what you are doing by coming here and picking silly quarrels and started cheap name calling fights. Get MY point?

 

The way to do that in a mature way is to offer to debate the philosophy of mayavad over vaisnavism and then if anyone accepts the challenge, We are monotheists and not polytheists. to present mayavad philosophy and try to establish it as a superior understanding. I personally would have no interest in such a debate considering it a waste of time but others may take up the challenge.

 

 

But your philosophy doesn't make any compromises.

That is correct in that we cannot compromise on the Supremacy of one Supreme Lord. To do that would mean turning our backs on our own beliefs which you claim to respect.

 

We are all about trying to establish an eternal loving relationship with the Lord and helping others do the same. No eternsal loving relationships are possible within mayavad.

 

Our beliefs are incompatable. If hearng Vaisnavism troubles you then you should know the bulk of those who post here are vaisnavas and aspiring vaisnavas. You must know this by now. At Audrya Fellowship there are many Hindu forums where mayavad is prominent. I don't post on any of them trying to convert others or to deny them the right to speak their views. Works for me. maybe you should try it.

[Guest guest]

 

Listen when the homosex crowd in Australia put on a hindu themed homosex festival a few years back and distributed pictures of Ganesha depicted in an obscene way (you may remember) I joined the hindus in protests by writing letters of protest and signing petions circulated on hindu forums. And this despite the fact that I am not personally convinced of the existence (or non-existence) of Ganesh. I support the right of hindus to be hindu all they like as freedom of thought and belief is a fundemental right given to every jiva by the Supreme Lord and must be protected.

But your version of that by coming here and protesting others for holding a belief different from yours is simply petty intolerance. Sorry to be so blunt.

Oh so others are welcome to possess a view different from yours but they as long as don't express it.

 

That's alright Theist. I also filed in writing my support for making of the Moscow Hare Krsna temple many times to the Mayor of Moscow, although I know that they don't like shivaites and I asked them if they would support making of a shiva temple tomorrow, all they could say is "why make a shiva temple when there is Krsna? We don't need that". I also supported the Kazakhstan Iskcon devotees who were thrown off their properties. Who started putting banners all over internet "Russian Hindus in danger .. etc"

Now we well know SPs position on calling Iskcon as Hindus! Moscow temple authorities lavishly advertised themselves as Hindus. One of the brochures that was distributed on many occasions and Iskcon festivals read in bold letters "First "HINDU" temple in Moscow". Of course I know the internal Iskcon policies and position on being a Hindu. But nevertheless, I have supported it in many ways, in a few countries, with service, financially and wherever a written support with the authorities was needed. You may not be convinced of Ganesha's existence (despite the Vedas) or maybe convinced, but I'm convinced of Krsna's existence.

You say "By coming here" as if this is your personal house that I have infiltrated. As I clarified, I can repeat again. Your own belief is not a problem, here. The problem is contradiction of our belief and preaching it thus all over the world. Srila Prabhupada may want to change the whole Vedic sadhnas as per the new Gaudiya philosophy. no problem. You can follow this line. Its bhakti anyways. Bhakti to Krsna is good bhakti in any form. And I appreciate it.

[Guest guest]

 

No one has a right to disturb the minds of others who do not wish to hear our philosophies, yours or mine.

 

Agreeable.

 

 

But that is exactly what you are doing by coming here and picking silly quarrels and started cheap name calling fights. Get MY point?

Maybe this is what you have started? a couple hundred years back?

 

 

The way to do that in a mature way is to offer to debate the philosophy of mayavad over vaisnavism and then if anyone accepts the challenge, We are monotheists and not polytheists. to present mayavad philosophy and try to establish it as a superior understanding. I personally would have no interest in such a debate considering it a waste of time but others may take up the challenge.

 

Mayavad is what u call it thus. Just another of the terms created within the gaudiya thinking. The very urge to throw up challenges and bully around others depicts a shallow judgmental and controlling mentality. Of course it is what you have been doing. And its a waste of time doing this in my view. Its better to realize these truths in one's life than to argue upon them.

 

That is correct in that we cannot compromise on the Supremacy of one Supreme Lord. To do that would mean turning our backs on our own beliefs which you claim to respect.

And I call that one lord as Shiva! Should there be a problem? no I guess.

Yes I do respect the bhakti, except for the fighting bullying part.

 

 

We are all about trying to establish an eternal loving relationship with the Lord and helping others do the same. No eternsal loving relationships are possible within mayavad.

This is absolutely untrue. If acceptance of more than one God is mayavad, then still an eternal loving relationship is very much possible. Maybe for one person Shiva is that Lord he has established or trying to establish loving relationship. You say Krsna (Krishna actually). Keeping this in view, are you trying to say that establishing an eternal loving relation with Lord Shiva is not possible?

 

 

Our beliefs are incompatable. If hearng Vaisnavism troubles you then you should know the bulk of those who post here are vaisnavas and aspiring vaisnavas. You must know this by now. At Audrya Fellowship there are many Hindu forums where mayavad is prominent. I don't post on any of them trying to convert others or to deny them the right to speak their views. Works for me. maybe you should try it.

I come from a vaishnava background and have known vaishnavism since birth and not from my hippie pot days (umm I didn't have any). And believe me, I never had any problems with Vaishnavism until I started discussing with the HKs. Its sad though.. I wish it weren't this way. Regards.

[Guruvani]

it's obvious from the topic of this thread that the person who started it was just begging for a quarrel with the Hare Krishnas on this forum.

 

The thread is not even a topic.

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link --> Om Ganapathiyai Namah

 

It doesn't propose any question or any answers, its just a challenge for others to come and attack the subject matter.

 

What does the author attempt to accomplish with this topic?

What is his message?

 

What are we all supposed to learn from this topic?

 

It's obviously just a challenge to the majority of people on this forum who are Hare Krishnas.

 

the author just wanted to pick a fight.

 

otherwise, what is he trying to discuss?

 

did he really want to discuss anything or just cram Ganesh down the throats of the Hare Krishna devotees?

 

The author starts the topic with this challenge to pick a fight...

 

 

If you still feel that only Krsna is supreme and all other GODS are demigods then challenge it openly, don’t come under the disguise of a Hindu or a Hindu Website, there seems to be no relation between your concept and Hinduism.

 

Advaitam and so many other concepts are merged with Hinduism where as Krsna movement has no acceptance of all that but conveniently use Hinduism and Hindus money,support when needed.

the whole topic was a fight from the beginning.

 

I don't know why the moderators didn't lock the topic from the onset.

[Guest guest]

 

Hare Krsna. I never do it, but I wrote ACBSP after my name in this topic to indicate that I am an initiated disciple of Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The practice of using these initials after ones name is an ISKCON practice, and Im definitely not a member of that organization, since 1975. However, Srila Prabhupada is referred to as Jagat Guru, meaning he is my Guru, not just ISKCON's.

 

Srila Prabhupada taught Bhagavad Gita, most extensively. The main primary education for his disciples, largely westerners who were disenfranchised due to a cultural enlightenment that had no apparent explanation. The core of his disciples were properly raised in the judeo-christian world, but had thrown away those babies with the bathwater of materialistic religiosity which went with it.

 

Bhagavad Gita contains the whole truth of ones self. It is the living entity dying from frustration submitting to the Supreme Guru, who never is away from our sides at any time. Paramatma Realization if fully explained in Srila Prabhupada Purports to his masterpiece gift to the world. Srila Prabhupada teaches me the essence of hinduism, christianity, akkadian, samerian, egyptian, druidism, zoroastrianism, sufism. All cultures aspiring to seek the self must seek the Superior being, and there is no description of God better than how Krsna describes His personality to arjuna:

 

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Yes, I will tell you of My splendorous manifestations, but only of those which are prominent, O Arjuna, for My opulence is limitless. I am the Supersoul, O Arjuna, seated in the hearts of all living entities. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings. Of the Adityas I am Vishnu, of lights I am the radiant sun, of the Maruts I am Marici, and among the stars I am the moon. Of the Vedas I am the Sama Veda; of the demigods I am Indra, the king of heaven; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force. Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva, of the Yakshas and Rakshasas I am the Lord of wealth Kuvera, of the Vasus I am fire Agni, and of mountains I am Meru. Of priests, O Arjuna, know Me to be the chief, Brihaspati. Of generals I am Kartikeya, and of bodies of water I am the ocean. Of the great sages I am Bhrigu; of vibrations I am the transcendental om. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names japa, and of immovable things I am the Himalayas. Of all trees I am the banyan tree, and of the sages among the demigods I am Narada. Of the Gandharvas I am Citraratha, and among perfected beings I am the sage Kapila. Of horses know Me to be Uccaihsrava, produced during the churning of the ocean for nectar. Of lordly elephants I am Airavata, and among men I am the monarch. Of weapons I am the thunderbolt; among cows I am the surabhi. Of causes for procreation I am Kandarpa, the god of love, and of serpents I am Vasuki. Of the many-hooded Nagas I am Ananta, and among the aquatics I am the demigod Varuna. Of departed ancestors I am Aryama, and among the dispensers of law I am Yama, the lord of death. Among the Daityademons I am the devoted Prahlada, among subduers I am time, among beasts I am the lion, and among birds I am Garuda. Of purifiers I am the wind, of the wielders of weapons I am Rama, of fishes I am the shark, and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges. Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the self, and among logicians I am the conclusive truth. Of letters I am the letter A, and among compound words I am the dual compound. I am also inexhaustible time, and of creators I am Brahma. I am all-devouring death, and I am the generating principle of all that is yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. Of the hymns in the SamaVeda I am the Brihat-sama, and of poetry I am the Gayatri. Of months I am Margasirsha [November-December], and of seasons I am flower-bearing spring. I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong. Of the descendants of Vrishni I am Vasudeva, and of the Pandavas I am . Of the sages I am Vyasa, and among great thinkers I am . Among all means of suppressing lawlessness I am punishment, and of those who seek victory I am morality. Of secret things I am silence, and of the wise I am the wisdom. Furthermore, O I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being -- moving or nonmoving -- that can exist without Me. O mighty conqueror of enemies, there is no end to My divine manifestations. What I have spoken to you is but a mere indication of My infinite opulences.

Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor. But what need is there, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."

 

So, from the education I have been given, I never even slightly deride the positions or the personalities of those who Krsna empowers, associates with, employs as representative. If I fail to give Lord Ganesha his due, Lord Krsna will not be pleased to reveal himself to me. If I say something totally ignorant about Lord Siva or those who have become a sort of heroes to me personally, Lords Yama and Goddess Yami, how will I ever take my place is I forget my very swarupa?

 

I dont need special mantras to worship ganesha. As the story of King Guha the hunter, as told by him to Sri Sri Sita Rama and sesabalarama appearing as Laksmana, his worship is accepted by Lord Siva as far superior to anything performed by the brahmana class. When I see his form, I remember his story of his one mistake, how he failed to recognize Lord Siva, his Father. That is my mantra, that is my worshipo. And Srila Prabhupada personally taught me this style of bhakti yoga as well, which is called Visnu smaranam, rememberance of the lila-guna-rupa-nama of Lord Visnu and everything connected with him.

 

The teaching from bhagavad gita above is visnu smaranam, in a very practical manner. It enables the bhakti yogi to be fully krsna conscious when he sees a shark (a very good yoga technique for the surfer types). When I play nine ball and speak of sacrede geometry, I can be krsna conscious because he is the CONCLUSIVE TRUTH, the goal of all logicians.

 

Hare Krsna, I pray to Sri Lord Ganesha to remove the impediments of discord among the transcendentalists and those who are eligible to hear and apply the song of the Supreme Lord, Srimad Bhagavad Gita. I sure hope to refrain from offending those who are not in full agreement and readily disregard comments made which may be real eyebrow raisers. ys in cooperation, mahaksadasa

 

Hare Krsna Mahak!

 

Thanks for this very nice post. Although I may not one hundred percent agree with a few aspects how they are presented in ur philosophy at certain times. But its nice. I do appreciate indeed the bhava behind it. My Obeisances.

 

As we say the methods are many and we don't contradict the teachings of Bhagwat Gita. May I add to ur story a similar one from the Shaiv literature of Kanappa, a great bhakta of Lord Shiva from South India. There are examples of Bhaktas who with their devotion won over the Lord's love, even though they weren't strictly in compliance with brahmnical ways of worship. But if we do it with proper mantras and method, it will be better still. "Mantradhinasya Devta"!

As you may agree, of course I am not preaching meat eating or offering to Lord Shiva, nor has it been anywhere prescribed. But again this story is just an example of devotion and bhakti - what we try to follow as well.

Here is the story:

 

Kannappa Nayanar

Tinnanar, known as Kannappar, was born of Nagan, the king of the Vyadhas (hunters), in Uduppur, in South India. King Nagan was a great Bhakta of Lord Subrahmanya. From his boyhood, Tinnanar was well trained in the skill of a hunter and archery and in his prime age, he had to assume the reins of government which his old father bestowed on him. One day, Tinnanar went out for a hunt with some of his followers. While wandering in the forest they came across a hog, escaping from a net. They, at once chased the hog for a long time, up and down the hills. After a long time, Tinnanar killed the hog and as they were much tired due to the long chasing, they at once arranged to cook the flesh of the animal and it was removed to another place in the Kalahasti Hill which was nearby. While walking towards the hill one of the followers of Tinnanar suggested to him to pay a visit to Kudumi Thevar, the presiding deity of the hills, and they proceeded to have Darsana of the Lord on the hill.

While climbing up the hill Tinnanar felt as if some great burden which was on him up till now, was gradually diminishing and he decided now to go to the temple nearby, have Darsana of the Lord there and then to take their meals. As soon as he came near the temple, to his great joy he saw a Siva Linga. At the very sight of Isvara, he was transformed to an embodiment of love and devotion and extreme joy. Like a mother who met her child that was missing for long, Tinnanar was merged in deep feeling of divine ecstasy and Prem. Ha! What a boundless and inexpressible and illimitable joy and exhilaration he had at the very sight of Lord Siva! He began to cry, weep and shed tears of

joy and love towards the Lord. He forgot everything about his meals and his followers and even his own body.

He felt very much for the loneliness of the Lord on the hills without being protected against the animals and others that might do harm to Him, and he decided to keep watch over the temple throughout the night against any danger from animals or evil-doers. On seeing that the Lord was hungry, he at once ran out to prepare meals for the Lord out of the meat he had got by killing the hog. He carefully took the flesh, tasted it and thus selected the pieces which were palatable and roasted them. The remaining portion he threw away as bad. Then he proceeded towards the river to fetch water for the Abhisheka and. he got the water in his mouth. On the way, he plucked some flowers and kept them in the locks of his hair. With these preparations he entered the temple,

removed the old flowers that were lying on the Lord by shoe, did Abhisheka with the water in his mouth and decorated Him with the flowers he had on his locks of hair. Then he offered the Prasad of meat to the Lord. Finishing all these, with bow and arrow in his hand he kept a keen watch over the temple by standing in front of the temple throughout the night. Early in the morning, he went out for hunt to bring Prasad for the Lord.

When Tinnanar left for hunting, the temple priest, Sivakasariar, an earnest and sincere devotee of Lord Sankara, came to the temple and to his great surprise and disappointment, saw bones and flesh all round the Lord and the decorations have been spoiled. But he could not identify the man who has done such an act, and meddled with the sanctity of the place. So uttering the necessary Mantras, he cleaned the place and performed his usual Puja for the Lord and recited the prayers. After the Puja he closed the temple and went out.

Tinnanar now returned with the Prasad of meat and flesh and as before, he removed the old decorations done by the priest, decorated in his own way as usual, and offered Prasad. At night, he kept vigil and keen watch over the temple. Early in the morning, he went out to bring Prasad. Thus he was with the Lord serving Him for five days and in spite of the entreaties of his parents to come home, he persisted in remaining with the Lord and Lord alone.

Sivakasariar, who was vexed with the incident being repeated day by day, complained to the Lord and requested Him to put an end to these mishappenings. Lord Siva appeared in the priest’s dream and narrated to him what was happening in the temple during the absence of the priest and told him also that what all actions Tinnanar was doing was only out of pure, unsophisticated love that he bore towards the Lord. Further, the Lord said: “I welcome, and rather I am immensely pleased with the mouthful of water by which he is doing my Abhisheka. This has greater value to Me than by the Tirthas of the Ganga. Whatever action that is performed out of pure and deep love and faith, I merit it with greater value than those rituals and austerities done by the Vedic injunctions”. Then Lord Gangadhar asked the priest to come to the temple next day and hide himself behind the Mufti and witness what Tinnanar does.

Tinnanar, after bringing the Prasad, arranged in his own usual way for the Abhisheka and decoration of the Lord. Now Lord Siva willed that the priest, Sivakasariar should see and feel the degree of devotion and faith that Tinnanar was having for Him. So, while Tinnanar was doing the Puja and offering the Prasad of meat, to his great astonishment, he saw the Lord shedding tears of blood, in the right eye. He got perplexed and was at a loss to know what to do. He ran hither and

thither to bring some leaves for stopping the bleeding but found they were of no use. He wept bitterly, cursed himself for being unable to stop the bleeding from the eye. At last, a plan came to him. He at once plucked out his right eye with his arrow and fixed it on the right eye of the Lord. To his great joy and ecstasy, he saw the bleeding stopped. While he was dancing in divine ecstasy for having cured the bleeding, all on a sudden, he perceived that the left eye also was bleeding. Though he was overtaken by surprise and sorrow, the previous plan came to him and he decided to pierce his left eye with his arrow with the intention of plucking it out and fixing it on the left eye of the Lord.

But when his both eyes were gone, how could he see the bleeding on the left eye of the Lord so as to stop it by fixing his own eye? Hence, in order to identify the left eye of the Lord, he first fixed it up

with the shoe on his right foot, and began to pierce his own left eye with the arrow in his hand. But

Isvara will not be so cruel as to see His Bhaktas suffer so much. On the spot, the Lord appeared and

addressed Tinnanar as ‘Kannappa’ and stopped him from plucking out the left eye. He was much

pleased with the filial devotion and staunch faith that Kannappar had for Him and kept him by His right side.

The above story of Kannappar is illustrative of the highest degree of devotion and faith that

was evinced by the Bhakta towards Lord Siva, even though he was a hunter by caste and never cared for the rituals and austerities by which the Lord should be worshipped. It was only mere love and intense devotion to the Lord that bestowed on him the greatest boon from the Lord, i.e.,

Self-realisation. It is only a matter of six days that he performed the Puja ceremonies to the Lord in

his own way, but the amount of devotion and love he had to the Lord, was boundless.

 

Hare Krsna! ~ Yog Kriya

[Guest guest]

 

Hare Krsna. I never do it, but I wrote ACBSP after my name in this topic to indicate that I am an initiated disciple of Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The practice of using these initials after ones name is an ISKCON practice, and Im definitely not a member of that organization, since 1975.

 

Mahak, Do you happen to know someone called Jaya Madhava Das, a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, from Philadelphia and Kansas? He was there around the same time as were you. Thanks.

YK

[mahak]

Haribol. I, for one, am always very enlivened by the stories from the great epics and histories about the great heroes. I realize that many of my peers dont care to hear of the bhaktas of Lord Subramuniyam, but I am not one of them. I dont agree with some who have placed the demoniac god versus the devil, a perversion of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ, into their vaisnava culture. For instance, I have an appreciation for the likes of Sri Duryodhana and Sri Ravanasura than some may not even care to hear about. The regret showed by duryodhana over the anti-ksatriya behavior of the son of Drona is commendable. There is also the fact that Sri Duryodhana was a very intimate friend of Lord Balarama, so if he is hated like the devil, that is wrongful thinking. Ravanasura is the person who has descended from the spiritual strata to engage in the rasa of chivalry with Lord Rama, so I praise their relationship as truely transcendental, free from the good and evil duality of the materialistic thinker.

 

All this appreciation is due to the causeless gift given to me by Srila Prabhupada, who taught me to be liberal minded in all matters. He never expected his disciple to be brainless robotsa incapable of expressing themselves, giving pleasure to others and allowing for further instruction from others as well. This is why he tried to create a diverse society that had the unity of harinama samkirtana.

 

Anyway, I am never opposed to respectful persons who may hold different views. I may have a low tolerance with those who try to tell me Im god but forgot, because God never forgets, as Krsna fully confirms in the gita. I worship Lord Ganesha because he will never make another mistake, and I will try my best to follow in the divine Scribe's footsteps.

 

Hare krsna, yog kriya, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS The name is familiar, but my service center (Hilo, Hawaii) was many thousands of miles away. Most of the early disciples I associated were original San Francisco devotees, such as Sudama, Subala, Goursundara, Govinda dasi, Jivananda, as well as the disciples of Sriman Sai, who also became disciples of Srila Prabhupada when sai became Sri Siddhaswarupananda. In honolulu, all devotees always did a stopover between India and America, so anyone I knew or met was quite fleeting. I also served in a remote, rural setting.

 

haribol

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Jai Ganesh Jai Ganesh Deva Mata Jena Parvati ne Pita Shanker Deva

 

 

Listen when the homosex crowd in Australia put on a hindu themed homosex festival a few years back and distributed pictures of Ganesha depicted in an obscene way (you may remember) I joined the hindus in protests by writing letters of protest and signing petions circulated on hindu forums. And this despite the fact that I am not personally convinced of the existence (or non-existence) of Ganesh. I support the right of hindus to be hindu all they like as freedom of thought and belief is a fundemental right given to every jiva by the Supreme Lord and must be protected.

.

 

 

The existence of Ganesh in question well well well what next?

 

It is one thing not wanting to worship other devas, although worship of Sri Ganesh, is well recognised Vedic practice, even many Vaisnavas observe it.

 

Jaganath and Baladev on snanyatra day will be depicted and dressed as Ganesh.

I wonder what Shree Chetanya Maha Prabhu think of your statement?

 

Sri Vyasdev narrated and Sri Ganesh scribed the Vedic literature, your statement doubts the very foundation of your belief in sanatan Dharma.

 

And yes me including all my family member actively fought to keep the Manor open funny it was also fought under the Hindu banner.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guruvani]

 

 

And yes me including all my family member actively fought to keep the Manor open funny it was also fought under the Hindu banner.

 

If the western Vaishnavas called themselves Hindus the Hindus would object to that.

If the western Vaishnvas say that they are not Hindus the Hindus object to that.

 

So, there is no way that the western Vaishnavas can satisfy the Hindus, so what is the use in trying?

 

Do all Vaishnavas have to be Hindus?

 

Does a Vaishnava have to classify himself in one big lump with the KAli worshipers and the Mayavadis?

 

Western Vaishnavas aren't in the big lump you call Hinduism.

 

All the western Vaishnavas follow the great acharyas of India and the Indian scriptures, but the Hindus get all bent out of shape because the western Vaishnavas don't accept one big all-encompassing designation with all the polytheists in India.

 

Why should Vaishnavism be lumped into a group with Kali worshipers, Shaivas and Mayavadis?

 

Some modern thinkers FROM INDIA have objected that that.

That idea was NOT invented by western Vaishnavas, but became a popular theme with many Indians during Gandhi's independence movement.

[Guest guest]

 

Haribol. I, for one, am always very enlivened by the stories from the great epics and histories about the great heroes. I realize that many of my peers dont care to hear of the bhaktas of Lord Subramuniyam, but I am not one of them. I dont agree with some who have placed the demoniac god versus the devil, a perversion of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ, into their vaisnava culture. For instance, I have an appreciation for the likes of Sri Duryodhana and Sri Ravanasura than some may not even care to hear about. The regret showed by duryodhana over the anti-ksatriya behavior of the son of Drona is commendable. There is also the fact that Sri Duryodhana was a very intimate friend of Lord Balarama, so if he is hated like the devil, that is wrongful thinking. Ravanasura is the person who has descended from the spiritual strata to engage in the rasa of chivalry with Lord Rama, so I praise their relationship as truely transcendental, free from the good and evil duality of the materialistic thinker.

 

All this appreciation is due to the causeless gift given to me by Srila Prabhupada, who taught me to be liberal minded in all matters. He never expected his disciple to be brainless robotsa incapable of expressing themselves, giving pleasure to others and allowing for further instruction from others as well. This is why he tried to create a diverse society that had the unity of harinama samkirtana.

 

Anyway, I am never opposed to respectful persons who may hold different views. I may have a low tolerance with those who try to tell me Im god but forgot, because God never forgets, as Krsna fully confirms in the gita. I worship Lord Ganesha because he will never make another mistake, and I will try my best to follow in the divine Scribe's footsteps.

 

Hare krsna, yog kriya, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS The name is familiar, but my service center (Hilo, Hawaii) was many thousands of miles away. Most of the early disciples I associated were original San Francisco devotees, such as Sudama, Subala, Goursundara, Govinda dasi, Jivananda, as well as the disciples of Sriman Sai, who also became disciples of Srila Prabhupada when sai became Sri Siddhaswarupananda. In honolulu, all devotees always did a stopover between India and America, so anyone I knew or met was quite fleeting. I also served in a remote, rural setting.

haribol

 

Yes many of these stories are very inspiring and have powerful spiritual healing affect and give impetus to the bhakta on his way of sadhna. Many of these stories bring tears of love and purify the heart. I appreciate your open mindedness in regards to such matters.

Love and Regards,

YogKriya

[Ganeshprasad]

 

Haribol. I, for one, am always very enlivened by the stories from the great epics and histories about the great heroes. I realize that many of my peers dont care to hear of the bhaktas of Lord Subramuniyam, but I am not one of them. I dont agree with some who have placed the demoniac god versus the devil, a perversion of the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ, into their vaisnava culture. For instance, I have an appreciation for the likes of Sri Duryodhana and Sri Ravanasura than some may not even care to hear about. The regret showed by duryodhana over the anti-ksatriya behavior of the son of Drona is commendable. There is also the fact that Sri Duryodhana was a very intimate friend of Lord Balarama, so if he is hated like the devil, that is wrongful thinking. Ravanasura is the person who has descended from the spiritual strata to engage in the rasa of chivalry with Lord Rama, so I praise their relationship as truely transcendental, free from the good and evil duality of the materialistic thinker.

 

All this appreciation is due to the causeless gift given to me by Srila Prabhupada, who taught me to be liberal minded in all matters. He never expected his disciple to be brainless robotsa incapable of expressing themselves, giving pleasure to others and allowing for further instruction from others as well. This is why he tried to create a diverse society that had the unity of harinama samkirtana.

 

Anyway, I am never opposed to respectful persons who may hold different views. I may have a low tolerance with those who try to tell me Im god but forgot, because God never forgets, as Krsna fully confirms in the gita. I worship Lord Ganesha because he will never make another mistake, and I will try my best to follow in the divine Scribe's footsteps.

 

Hare krsna, yog kriya, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

haribol

 

Jai Ganesh

 

Pranam Mahak ji

 

Simply wonderful it is very uplifting thank you.

 

May Sri Ganesh remove all the obstacles of everyone on the path of spiritual journey.

 

Vakratunda Mahakaaya

Suryakoti Samaprabha

Nirvighnam Kuru Mey Deva

Sarva Kaaryeshu Sarvada

Meaning:The Lord with the curved trunk and a mighty body, who has the luster of a million suns, I pray to thee Oh Lord, to remove the obstacles from all the actions I intend to perform.

 

Om Gam Ganapatye Namaha,

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest guest]

The mantra is very nice, a good prayer to a faultless personality. Srila Prabhupada gave me the name, (mahaksadasa), because he sees the impediments that will face me in my quest to remember my swarupa, therefore, Lord Ganesha, also known as the greatest defeater of the enemy of spiritual life (mahaksa, also mahakaa), is my patron saint. Srila Prabhupada would not have named me as his servant and then expect me not to serve Him. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

 

Pranam Guruvani

 

 

If the western Vaishnavas called themselves Hindus the Hindus would object to that.

If the western Vaishnvas say that they are not Hindus the Hindus object to that.

 

So, there is no way that the western Vaishnavas can satisfy the Hindus, so what is the use in trying?

 

Anyone on the path of dharma is a Hindu, Vasudev kutumbak. Those who may object, and I do not know of any, are narrow minded who does not follow dharma.

 

 

Do all Vaishnavas have to be Hindus?

Vaisnava never had any problem clasified as Hindus , it seems the problem have only surfaced in recent times.

 

 

Does a Vaishnava have to classify himself in one big lump with the KAli worshipers and the Mayavadis?

Such a problem never was there, emphasis has always been on following dharma and to seek the truth.

Have you got any problems with gopies?

Mayavadis what is it? Did not Sri Chetanya Maha Prabhu take sanyas from so called mayavadi.

 

 

Western Vaishnavas aren't in the big lump you call Hinduism.

 

That is your prerogative.

 

All the western Vaishnavas follow the great acharyas of India and the Indian scriptures, but the Hindus get all bent out of shape because the western Vaishnavas don't accept one big all-encompassing designation with all the polytheists in India.

 

That is fine you follow what you prefer but don’t make judgement and abuse those who seek the lord different from you. Each to them self.

 

 

Why should Vaishnavism be lumped into a group with Kali worshipers, Shaivas and Mayavadis?

 

You are creating your on phantoms, creating division where there is none, all these are Vedic practice. Do you have problem with gopies, the prajapatis, Chetanya maha Prabhu I can go on if you like.

 

 

Some modern thinkers FROM INDIA have objected that that.

That idea was NOT invented by western Vaishnavas, but became a popular theme with many Indians during Gandhi's independence movement.

 

I have no idea what this is.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[theist]

 

I come from a vaishnava background and have known vaishnavism since birth and not from my hippie pot days (umm I didn't have any). And believe me, I never had any problems with Vaishnavism until I started discussing with the HKs. Its sad though.. I wish it weren't this way. Regards.

 

Then why do you continue to try to discuss with HK's? You must like quarrel. You sought us out we did not seek you out.