Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Atheists are growing in numbers Barna has this to say: 85% of Americans self-identify as Christians. (2002) 7% of US adults classify as evangelicals (2004) (see Evangelical category for more information) 38% of US adults classify as born again, but not evangelical. (2004) 37% are self-described Christians but are neither evangelical nor born again Atheists and agnostics comprise 12% of adults nationwide. (2004) 11% of the US population identify with a faith other than Christianity (2004) Apparently main stream religion is failing in persuading people of the existence of God or at least the specific nature of a god. I wonder if Vaisnavas are confronted about the existence of god if they could be any more convincing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralidhar_das Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 According to the most recent census data, 19% of Australians are atheists. If the different Christian denominations are treated separately, people of no religion now form the equal second largest group in terms of belief after Catholics (there are an equal number of atheists and Anglicans, the second largest denomination). The fastest growing religion in Australia is Hinduism. The number of Hindus has doubled in the past ten years, and the number of Buddhists has almost doubled going from 1.1% to 2.2%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Aethism grows everyday because people are upset about the hateful propaganda of most religions,for example i am a Devout Hindu,but when i find ISKCON like cults coming up that constantly ridicule other Gods in Hinduism i tend to think what is the proof that God exists after all or atleast these so called Gods Rama Krishna Allah Jesus exist,because one man is capable enough to put the seeds of hatred and stupidity in people and force them to read his stupid version of book for 10 to 15 hours a day,if that is the capability of a hypocrite then who is going to believe in GOD.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muralidhar_das Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Aethism grows everyday because people are upset about the hateful propaganda of most religions,for example i am a Devout Hindu,but when i find ISKCON like cults coming up that constantly ridicule other Gods in Hinduism i tend to think what is the proof that God exists after all or atleast these so called Gods Rama Krishna Allah Jesus exist,because one man is capable enough to put the seeds of hatred and stupidity in people and force them to read his stupid version of book for 10 to 15 hours a day,if that is the capability of a hypocrite then who is going to believe in GOD.. the pendulum swings both ways. there are plenty of Hindus that have been insulting and attacking Vaishnavas long before ISKCON was ever started. Shaivas have been putting down other faiths for a long time. ISKCON doesn't have any monopoly on religious fervor. Shaivas have been claiming superiority for a long time, even before ISKCON was started. So, don't be such a bigot. There was plenty of religious bigotry in India before ISKCON came around. Why is it that Shaivas think they can claim supremecy of Siva and that everyone else has to bow down to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I think it's silly to argue about the religious bigotry in India when compared to the Spanish conquistadors, the witch burnings of Europe, and the Crusades in the middle east. The Vaishnavs and Shaivas might disagree on certain matters of philosophy but we don't go around killing each other the way other religions do. So please, just stop it. Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Nobody has a monopoly on bigotry. So the charge is meaningless. Perhaps that's the real reason that atheism is growing. On the subject of Hinduism, ISKCON has wisely and practically reconciled itself to it, and has a large Hindu congregation which it is currently exploiting for the material support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 When *I* grow atheism, I start out by sprouting some atheist seeds in some muddy water. Then, when there are a couple of leaves and some roots showing from the atheism sprout, I make a little hole in the top of a row in the garden, and put the little seedling in it and cover the roots with dirt. Then I water the budding atheist with fear, uncertainty and doubt, at which point it begins a growth spurt. Before the little atheist gets a chance to go to seed and become bitter, I harvest it, steam it and serve it with olive oil and lemon. Delicious!!! Hmmmm...a thought just occurred. I wonder if baby atheist can be offered to the Lord? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 pranam jai I think it's silly to argue about the religious bigotry in India when compared to the Spanish conquistadors, the witch burnings of Europe, and the Crusades in the middle east. The Vaishnavs and Shaivas might disagree on certain matters of philosophy but we don't go around killing each other the way other religions do. So please, just stop it. Jai nice one jai Bhole nath has certainly instil his mercy on you and why not remember the trip to Kedarnath? how is your feet? Jai Shree Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 pranam jai nice one jai Bhole nath has certainly instil his mercy on you and why not remember the trip to Kedarnath? how is your feet? Jai Shree Krishna Haribol! What is your name, Prabhu? You didn't say who you are but clearly I know you as you know about Kedarnath and my accident. My foot is fine now, the scar is almost invisible. How are you? Haribol! Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 The reason the number of atheists are growing is because of the fact that science is becoming increasingly accessible to the general public. The fact that mystical states are induced by the brain, that most if not all mystical states are rather delusory, and the number of spiritualists exposed as hypocrites and frauds is growing everyday is quite damning evidence against the existence of any God or the validity of any religion. Moreover, it's increasingly harder to accept the existence of any intelligence behind the fabrication of this universe as we learn more about the brain, physics and the true nature of reality, etc. We begin to understand that there is a cause and effect behind everything, and all purely on the material, mental, or psychological level. There's no clear definition of "spirit", "soul", or even "god" so spiritualists have the advantage of being able to conform these terms to whatever situation they may see it applicable. Blind scriptural recitation isn't nearly enough to convince anyone of the validity of the existence of God. The proof has to be tangible or coherent, or it's not proof at all, just wishful thinking. A lot of the arguments for the existence of God contribute also against the existence of God. For instance, the idea that the universe exists, therefore it must have a Creator. If the Creator exists, who created the Creator? And if nobody created the Creator, that means it is not necessary for a creation to exist because of a Creator. So if it is not necessary for a creation to exist because of a Creator, one cannot make the assumption that the universe had a Creator to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Who's on first? I don't know what kind of science you're reading, but, to me, science is growing more and more muddled, specialized, and confused, and the general public has *less* of a true understanding of science than ever and more blind faith in it. The reason the number of atheists are growing is because of the fact that science is becoming increasingly accessible to the general public. The fact that mystical states are induced by the brain, that most if not all mystical states are rather delusory, and the number of spiritualists exposed as hypocrites and frauds is growing everyday is quite damning evidence against the existence of any God or the validity of any religion. Moreover, it's increasingly harder to accept the existence of any intelligence behind the fabrication of this universe as we learn more about the brain, physics and the true nature of reality, etc. We begin to understand that there is a cause and effect behind everything, and all purely on the material, mental, or psychological level. There's no clear definition of "spirit", "soul", or even "god" so spiritualists have the advantage of being able to conform these terms to whatever situation they may see it applicable. Blind scriptural recitation isn't nearly enough to convince anyone of the validity of the existence of God. The proof has to be tangible or coherent, or it's not proof at all, just wishful thinking. A lot of the arguments for the existence of God contribute also against the existence of God. For instance, the idea that the universe exists, therefore it must have a Creator. If the Creator exists, who created the Creator? And if nobody created the Creator, that means it is not necessary for a creation to exist because of a Creator. So if it is not necessary for a creation to exist because of a Creator, one cannot make the assumption that the universe had a Creator to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 A lot of the arguments for the existence of God contribute also against the existence of God. You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zjj Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want roomK5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python) Murali Mohan, I'm laughing my head off. I love that sketch! Haribol! Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 It's sad, but I know Monty Python better than I know Srimad Bhagavatam Glad you're entertained, though!! Murali Mohan, I'm laughing my head off. I love that sketch! Haribol! Jai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 The reason the number of atheists are growing is because of the fact that science is becoming increasingly accessible to the general public. The fact that mystical states are induced by the brain, that most if not all mystical states are rather delusory, and the number of spiritualists exposed as hypocrites and frauds is growing everyday is quite damning evidence against the existence of any God or the validity of any religion. Moreover, it's increasingly harder to accept the existence of any intelligence behind the fabrication of this universe as we learn more about the brain, physics and the true nature of reality, etc. We begin to understand that there is a cause and effect behind everything, and all purely on the material, mental, or psychological level. There's no clear definition of "spirit", "soul", or even "god" so spiritualists have the advantage of being able to conform these terms to whatever situation they may see it applicable. Blind scriptural recitation isn't nearly enough to convince anyone of the validity of the existence of God. The proof has to be tangible or coherent, or it's not proof at all, just wishful thinking. A lot of the arguments for the existence of God contribute also against the existence of God. For instance, the idea that the universe exists, therefore it must have a Creator. If the Creator exists, who created the Creator? And if nobody created the Creator, that means it is not necessary for a creation to exist because of a Creator. So if it is not necessary for a creation to exist because of a Creator, one cannot make the assumption that the universe had a Creator to begin with. Science has proof but religion has none. Can anyone prove that there exists a GOLOKA or KAILASA or Jesus or Allah or anyone? No not at all. Can any one prove or seen the mythological characters like Kumbakarna or Vali or Ravana or anything thats beyond logical definitions? No not at all Religion works on fear on the unknown and the greed to reach a planet called Heaven where u dont suffer at all,so everyone manifests their own cult and brag they have the ticket to the heavenly planet after they die as long as they blindly believe it and read that for 10 to 12 hrs a day and put down other religions.. Thats it..as simple as it is.though they may not admit it... Truth is mans ego plays a game here. There is no proof of soul or past births... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Science has proof but religion has none. Can anyone prove that there exists a GOLOKA or KAILASA or Jesus or Allah or anyone? No not at all. Can any one prove or seen the mythological characters like Kumbakarna or Vali or Ravana or anything thats beyond logical definitions? No not at all Religion works on fear on the unknown and the greed to reach a planet called Heaven where u dont suffer at all,so everyone manifests their own cult and brag they have the ticket to the heavenly planet after they die as long as they blindly believe it and read that for 10 to 12 hrs a day and put down other religions.. Thats it..as simple as it is.though they may not admit it... Truth is mans ego plays a game here. There is no proof of soul or past births... Our own consciousness - is proof of a soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 You haven't read anything by Srila Sridhar Maharaj or Srila Prabhupada have you? Guru teaches us that we have nothing to fear since all may be known (by knowing Krishna). Of course, we are advised to avoid offending the sincere seekers since that will be adverse for our spiritual advancement. Ultimately, since the jiva (soul) is an atom of Divine Consciousness, the jiva cannot be harmed and has nothing to fear. Guru teaches us that to hanker after liberation from misery is a shallow type of thinking. The truly wise hanker not for dissolution/liberation but for constant engagement in devotional service, for our own highest well-being is to be found in that mood of dedication. The proof, they say, is in the pudding. Religion works on fear on the unknown and the greed to reach a planet called Heaven where u dont suffer at all,so everyone manifests their own cult and brag they have the ticket to the heavenly planet after they die as long as they blindly believe it and read that for 10 to 12 hrs a day and put down other religions.. Thats it..as simple as it is.though they may not admit it... Truth is mans ego plays a game here. There is no proof of soul or past births... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Science has proof but religion has none. Can anyone prove that there exists a GOLOKA or KAILASA or Jesus or Allah or anyone? No not at all. Can any one prove or seen the mythological characters like Kumbakarna or Vali or Ravana or anything thats beyond logical definitions? No not at all Religion works on fear on the unknown and the greed to reach a planet called Heaven where u dont suffer at all,so everyone manifests their own cult and brag they have the ticket to the heavenly planet after they die as long as they blindly believe it and read that for 10 to 12 hrs a day and put down other religions.. Thats it..as simple as it is.though they may not admit it... Truth is mans ego plays a game here. There is no proof of soul or past births... yep, you have it all figured out. now, go away...... Find some atheist forum to haunt. Devotees are not supposed to listen to people like you. go.................get lost................. bye bye............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Science has proof but religion has none. If you actually know something about science, you'd realize what a house of cards "scientific proof" really is. Science deals with extrapolations based on extrapolations based on extrapolations. All it takes is for one fundamental principle to be shown to false for a whole area of science to collapse. From the news recently: some fundamental universal constants are being found not to be constants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerServant Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Science has proof but religion has none. Can anyone prove that there exists a GOLOKA or KAILASA or Jesus or Allah or anyone? No not at all. Can any one prove or seen the mythological characters like Kumbakarna or Vali or Ravana or anything thats beyond logical definitions? No not at all Religion works on fear on the unknown and the greed to reach a planet called Heaven where u dont suffer at all,so everyone manifests their own cult and brag they have the ticket to the heavenly planet after they die as long as they blindly believe it and read that for 10 to 12 hrs a day and put down other religions.. Thats it..as simple as it is.though they may not admit it... Truth is mans ego plays a game here. There is no proof of soul or past births... Proving the existence of God is easy. How can you accept the proof? What limited science shall we use to prove the unlimited? First you reject the transcendental sciences (true religion) which have the formulas for proving. But rather you want limited human science perhaps .. or strings of wordplay (philosophical logic). Perhaps you want contemporary physics? I can prove singularities in wave particle duality momentum distributions transcend the boundaries of time and space and hence, space and time cannot be bounded (infinity .. no beginning, no end) ? But what would that prove to you? Do you want fancy words to prove or disprove He who is inside and outside of time? He who is omnipresent, omniscient, transcendent, etc) Rather than me prove God exists, why don't you disprove the existence of: faith "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen" - Hebrews 11:1 Faith is not blind belief .. to the faithful, faith is known to be beyond speculative powers of reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 If the Vedic literature is true then it seems everything is going exactly as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samia Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 "To see God, you must have special eyes. Otherwise you cannot bear the shock." All Science does is open more questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Pure science deals with the understanding of various different qualities of matter. OK, it has nothing to do with mathematical equations even, this is what engineering can use. If you are by common chance interested in learning if God exists then there are different areas you need to learn. Consciousness Studies is the biggest one. Epistemology, Phenomonology, Psychology, Cognitive Neuroscience, Bhakti, etc... are fields. Philosophy is another big one. Ethics, Metaphysics, Ontology, etc... Anyone can add on to these areas and list the order of interest to the human intellect. Of course if one was liberated one would understand these fields perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashstryker Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 If a more puranic explanation were to given, it would go something like this: This is the age of kali and it would only make sense that atheism is on the rise. Unfortunately, it is considered stylish to be atheistic. And remember, this is only the first leg of Kaliyuga....! In the second leg, it is said that humanity will disappear alongwith Dharma.....! So the rest is for you to judge!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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