Atrocious Behavior

[Tirisilex]

A friend of mine told me today that Teens in upper Canada / Alaska are taking baseball bats to baby seals and beating them to death for FUN!?!?!? What can we do to stop such senseless violence?

[Tirisilex]

http://www.hsus.org/protect_seals.html

 

For ending seal slaughter...

[theist]

I'm with you.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

When their consciousness comes to Krishna, their attraction for barbarism will disappear.

[Beggar]

 

When their consciousness comes to Krishna, their attraction for barbarism will disappear.

What? They will give up being a barber and become a sweet walla, singing constantly the name Caitanya?

[theist]

Seal pup clubbers should be shot.

 

 

[theist]

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I wonder if seal-pup clubbers have a higher rate of suicide?

 

 

Seal pup clubbers should be shot.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

A friend of mine told me today that Teens in upper Canada / Alaska are taking baseball bats to baby seals and beating them to death for FUN!?!?!? What can we do to stop such senseless violence?

This is disgusting. Almost as disgusting as the daily cruel wholesale slaughter of cows. Mercy is one of the pillars of religion which is destroyed by meat-eating.

[theist]

 

This is disgusting. Almost as disgusting as the daily cruel wholesale slaughter of cows. Mercy is one of the pillars of religion which is destroyed by meat-eating.

 

and taking part in the slaughter industry by drinking commercial milk.

[theist]

 

I wonder if seal-pup clubbers have a higher rate of suicide?

 

That is an interesting question. Just think these are supposedly normal people in society. They live next door. I wonder how many meet the classification of sociopaths.

[Guest guest]

 

and taking part in the slaughter industry by drinking commercial milk.

Not exactly. Like taking part in the commercial food industry as a whole- all related.

[zjj]

Whoever is doing this is obviously ill in some way. No sane person of ordinary emotional intelligence would do such a thing. So they must be sociopaths who are probably very unhappy in their own lives. They must have no one to guide them or tell them what is right or wrong. That is what is so alarming about this. Those poor seal pups are the innocents in this but so are the ones perpertrating the crime. Something must be done to explain to them that this is not acceptable behaviour.

 

Oh Krishna, please save those baby seals and the people hurting them.

 

Haribol!

 

Jai

[theist]

 

Not exactly. Like taking part in the commercial food industry as a whole- all related.

 

Nope. It may make you feel better to think so but it is a delusion. Do you think vegans contribute to the slaughter industry by eating fruit? You can't show any direct causal link.

 

The direct link between commerial milk drinkers is direct and hellish. Male calves are slaughtered as veal. The mother is slaughtered after she is no longer a productive milk slave. Her female calves are then brought in to replace her as as a milk slave until they are picked for slaughter.

 

You can take part in this and at the same time chant Gopala Govinda!?

[Guest guest]

 

Nope. It may make you feel better to think so but it is a delusion. Do you think vegans contribute to the slaughter industry by eating fruit? You can't show any direct causal link.

 

The direct link between commerial milk drinkers is direct and hellish. Male calves are slaughtered as veal. The mother is slaughtered after she is no longer a productive milk slave. Her female calves are then brought in to replace her as as a milk slave until they are picked for slaughter.

 

You can take part in this and at the same time chant Gopala Govinda!?

The link between commercial milk is no more direct than the link between produce growers and milk production - it's all owned by the same concern. The drawing of milk from the cow does not directly kill the calf. That might make you feel more self-righteous. It's the megacorporate agri-business that kills the calf. It does so for the same reason it kills the cows - for profit. The income that is generated by fruit production helps to run that industry. It's all karmically related.

[theist]

 

The link between commercial milk is no more direct than the link between produce growers and milk production - *it's all owned by the same concern. **The drawing of milk from the cow does not directly kill the calf. That might make you feel more self-righteous. It's the megacorporate agri-business that kills the calf. It does so for the same reason it kills the cows - for profit. The income that is generated by fruit production helps to run that industry. ***It's all karmically related.

 

*You are rather confused but I haven't the patience to waste on educating you further.

 

** No kidding. Read the post before yours for my answer.

 

*** I suppose you think the karma for buying an orange then is the same as buying veal. Your all one philosophy does not hold water. In fact it is ludicrous.

[Guest guest]

 

Nope. It may make you feel better to think so but it is a delusion. Do you think vegans contribute to the slaughter industry by eating fruit? You can't show any direct causal link.

 

The direct link between commerial milk drinkers is direct and hellish. Male calves are slaughtered as veal. The mother is slaughtered after she is no longer a productive milk slave. Her female calves are then brought in to replace her as as a milk slave until they are picked for slaughter.

 

You can take part in this and at the same time chant Gopala Govinda!?

 

 

Srila Prabhupada drank commercial milk and encouraged his disciples to do so. So I guess by your reasoning Srila Prabhupada is not a real devotee.

[stonehearted]

I'd like to suggest that this thread be moved to the World Review forum. I'm not sure I see how there's a spiritual subject, beyond the discussion of the merits and demerits of the dairy industry.

[Guest guest]

There are companies out there that are not so demoniac, but basically, I agree with theist on the FACT that any industry will slit the throat in a heartbeat with anything that eats profit.

 

I drink commercial milk, but having worked with the health food industry, Ive had the ability to do the research to find the dairies that have humane practices. The dairy I support does not support the veal industry, which, IMHO, is the worst thing in agriculture, perhaps only surpassed by the Kobe Beef industry, which actually tortures the cows for years to produce soft beef. The dairy I use also never uses hormones, does not force cannibalism on the cows.

 

That said, I am still implicated, seriously, because no one has a use for a male cow. While breeding techniques can reduce this "waste", there are still male cows. In my experiance with ISKCON cow stuff in the early seventies, they had no solution, either. A few males are fine for the bullock carts and the labor, as well as breeder cows, but to keep milkers in production, calves are born, and many are males. ISKCON sold their male cows (and the milkers as well) to the locals. Is there karma there? No questions asked?

 

Not to sound cruel, but I dont care about karma. I do my best not to be cruel, to live at the expense of others, but I cant spend my life trying to be in the mode of goodness. I dont worry about the wild dogs I shot in the head to protect my other animals. Farming is a trade that is not for the weak-hearted or those worried about karma. Farmers do mercy killings all the time, play god, make decisions that may be far from brahminical. One of the most pious devotees I ever knew could be seen at eleven PM in the garden squishing cut worms with his bare hands by flashlight. I dont have a problem with slugs, I use them for dog droppings, and they love me for it, I am their God.

 

Point of this article is to try to let folks know that effort is rewarded, consciousness is everything. I mention the dairy I use not because it is ideal, but because it is leaps and bounds better than most. Karma worry is for the christian, not for me. I slit the throat of mr lettuce for my salad. Even if I were a phenop, meaning an avadhuta who lives only on the fruit that has fallen from the tree, I am still guilty of tree abortion, because that fruit is a biological progression that leads to the fruit making another tree, and by my eating it, I have interfered with nature in a most violent manner.

 

Do the research. Find out about the dairy you support. Visit the fasrms they use. Im very lucky, I live in a wonderful place. In chicago, the dairies have no grass, the feedlots are in the stockyards, milk is from a factory where one cannot even breathe. I went to a veal farm once, and the air where the calves were kept was like pure ammonia, and this was a very clean facility. The cruelty in anything to do with animal care for agriculture purpose is just as theist says, only in the fair-trade, cooperative food world is there any noted difference.

 

But I dont drink that part, I spit it out. The best idea is prabhupadeas, get your land, grow your food.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[AncientMariner]

 

There are companies out there that are not so demoniac, but basically, I agree with theist on the FACT that any industry will slit the throat in a heartbeat with anything that eats profit.

 

I drink commercial milk, but having worked with the health food industry, Ive had the ability to do the research to find the dairies that have humane practices. The dairy I support does not support the veal industry, which, IMHO, is the worst thing in agriculture, perhaps only surpassed by the Kobe Beef industry, which actually tortures the cows for years to produce soft beef. The dairy I use also never uses hormones, does not force cannibalism on the cows.

 

That said, I am still implicated, seriously, because no one has a use for a male cow. While breeding techniques can reduce this "waste", there are still male cows. In my experiance with ISKCON cow stuff in the early seventies, they had no solution, either. A few males are fine for the bullock carts and the labor, as well as breeder cows, but to keep milkers in production, calves are born, and many are males. ISKCON sold their male cows (and the milkers as well) to the locals. Is there karma there? No questions asked?

 

Not to sound cruel, but I dont care about karma. I do my best not to be cruel, to live at the expense of others, but I cant spend my life trying to be in the mode of goodness. I dont worry about the wild dogs I shot in the head to protect my other animals. Farming is a trade that is not for the weak-hearted or those worried about karma. Farmers do mercy killings all the time, play god, make decisions that may be far from brahminical. One of the most pious devotees I ever knew could be seen at eleven PM in the garden squishing cut worms with his bare hands by flashlight. I dont have a problem with slugs, I use them for dog droppings, and they love me for it, I am their God.

 

Point of this article is to try to let folks know that effort is rewarded, consciousness is everything. I mention the dairy I use not because it is ideal, but because it is leaps and bounds better than most. Karma worry is for the christian, not for me. I slit the throat of mr lettuce for my salad. Even if I were a phenop, meaning an avadhuta who lives only on the fruit that has fallen from the tree, I am still guilty of tree abortion, because that fruit is a biological progression that leads to the fruit making another tree, and by my eating it, I have interfered with nature in a most violent manner.

 

Do the research. Find out about the dairy you support. Visit the fasrms they use. Im very lucky, I live in a wonderful place. In chicago, the dairies have no grass, the feedlots are in the stockyards, milk is from a factory where one cannot even breathe. I went to a veal farm once, and the air where the calves were kept was like pure ammonia, and this was a very clean facility. The cruelty in anything to do with animal care for agriculture purpose is just as theist says, only in the fair-trade, cooperative food world is there any noted difference.

 

But I dont drink that part, I spit it out. The best idea is prabhupadeas, get your land, grow your food.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

Yeah I agree with this. I have killed starlings and predatory animals that do damage to the species like quail, killdear etc. and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a coyote, crow, or raven if I saw them disturbing the little bunnies in my yard. I have friends who told me that ravens will pluck the eyes out of baby calfs, so to say there is never a need for killing predatory animals is naive in my opinion.

[Guest guest]

Who are you kidding man? Where do you think the money you pay to buy fruit goes? Into promoting Krishna Consciuosness? Wake up to reality.

 

The money you pay likely goes to buy meat to feed the family of the seller. So now let's see, using your logic, you must be participating in animal killing, so stop eating fruit.

 

 

Nope. It may make you feel better to think so but it is a delusion. Do you think vegans contribute to the slaughter industry by eating fruit? You can't show any direct causal link.

 

The direct link between commerial milk drinkers is direct and hellish. Male calves are slaughtered as veal. The mother is slaughtered after she is no longer a productive milk slave. Her female calves are then brought in to replace her as as a milk slave until they are picked for slaughter.

 

You can take part in this and at the same time chant Gopala Govinda!?

[Guest guest]

Exactly! So if milk drinkers are sinners, then ... fruit eaters are promoters of animal slaughter!

 

 

The link between commercial milk is no more direct than the link between produce growers and milk production - it's all owned by the same concern. The drawing of milk from the cow does not directly kill the calf. That might make you feel more self-righteous. It's the megacorporate agri-business that kills the calf. It does so for the same reason it kills the cows - for profit. The income that is generated by fruit production helps to run that industry. It's all karmically related.

[theist]

What a stupid argument. You breath and brush your teeth therefore you are a mass murderer.

 

Get a brain and come back when you have some intelligent point to make.

[theist]

 

Even if I were a phenop, meaning an avadhuta who lives only on the fruit that has fallen from the tree, I am still guilty of tree abortion, because that fruit is a biological progression that leads to the fruit making another tree, and by my eating it, I have interfered with nature in a most violent manner.

 

This is not a valid example because when you eat fruits you either separate the seeds or pass them out prefertilized just like the birds and other animals do. This is the way trees spread. If all the seeds lay at the foot of the tree they would grow well because of over crowding and lack of sunshine.

 

The basic point though is well taken. I use a similar example. When a fruitarian approaches a tree to harvest his ahimsa acquired foodstuff he still steps on insects as he goes to gather. Therefore perfect ahimsa is impossible. But we must do our best without going insane in the attempt. We are afterall living in the world of birth and death.

 

Must disagree with much of your post mahaksadas. I think it most wise to avoid creating heavy negative karma. Throwing up our hands in surrender is no answer to not being perfect. We are expected to do our best, be devoted to Krsna, and then Krsna will carry the rest.

[Guest guest]

Yes, and I suggest you do the same.

 

 

What a stupid argument. You breath and brush your teeth therefore you are a mass murderer.

 

Get a brain and come back when you have some intelligent point to make.