Drop the word ritvik and just use siksa guru

[theist]

Of course it is not the word it is the conception that lies behind it. If you want to connect someone to Srila Prabhupada which tool for that has spiritual potency? The performance of a religious rite or hearing from one who understands and can explain the devotional siddhanta as it is?

 

I think the answer to be obvious.

[Guest guest]

"Drop the word ritvik and just use siksa guru"

 

Are you sure? In our Saraswata sampradaya siksa is definitely more important than diksa

[Guest guest]

Perfect suggestion, Senor!

 

We need no ritviks to connect to Srila Prabhupada!

 

 

Of course it is not the word it is the conception that lies behind it. If you want to connect someone to Srila Prabhupada which tool for that has spiritual potency? The performance of a religious rite or hearing from one who understands and can explain the devotional siddhanta as it is?

 

I think the answer to be obvious.

[theist]

 

"Drop the word ritvik and just use siksa guru"

 

Are you sure? In our Saraswata sampradaya siksa is definitely more important than diksa

 

All the more reason right? Dhruva's mother Suniti? was also his siksa guru as one who showed the way. So there are levels of instructive ability. But simple or advanced the emphasis on dessiminating spiritual knowledge is always through siksa.

[theist]

Hey Amigo! Yes we should hold a final religious rite for ritvik. All we need is a funeral pyre and a match.

[theist]

 

RIP ritvik

[theist]

Now we can just focus on Srila Prabhupada's vani without distraction and humbug.

[Guruvani]

the followers of Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja can't just drop the word "ritvik" because they did not introduce the position or the function into the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

The acharyas have given the term "ritvik" and nobody has the power or authority to eliminate what has been given by the acharyas.

 

Who are we to decide what we can drop or what we can accept?

 

We are obliged to accept what the acharyas have given without letting our petty false egos decide if we can reject what the acharyas have given the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

Besides that, Srila Sridhar Maharaja said that ritviks were "vartmapradarshaka gurus" not siksha gurus.

 

So we should just accept what the acharyas give without mutilating what they have decided.

[Guest guest]

LOL prabhu, sure and I'll arrange fire extinguishers and safety equipment so things don't get out of hand.

 

It's about time we kicked this ritvik nuisance out of ISKCON and Gaudiya vaisnavism. No more freelance agents for connection to Parampara.

 

 

Hey Amigo! Yes we should hold a final religious rite for ritvik. All we need is a funeral pyre and a match.

[Guest guest]

Absolutely. Everythign necessary is in his books. We don't need a ritvik to get transcendental knowledge. They don't hold a patent or anything.

 

 

Now we can just focus on Srila Prabhupada's vani without distraction and humbug.

[Guruvani]

 

LOL prabhu, sure and I'll arrange fire extinguishers and safety equipment so things don't get out of hand.

 

It's about time we kicked this ritvik nuisance out of ISKCON and Gaudiya vaisnavism. No more freelance agents for connection to Parampara.

If the acharya appoints some disciples as ritvik, that can hardly be called freelance.

 

The GBC asked how things would go on after the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

His instructions to the GBC was "ritvik".

 

If the GBC conducts a ritvik system, that can hardly be called freelance if it was directly instructed by the acharya of ISKCON.

 

the orders of the acharya are the only connection the disciple has to the spiritual master.

there is NOTHING freelance about following the direct orders of the acharya.

[Guruvani]

the only thing we need to burn in the fire is our false ego, not the orders of the acharya.

 

[theist]

 

Besides that, Srila Sridhar Maharaja said that ritviks were "vartmapradarshaka gurus" not siksha gurus.

 

You missed this.

 

 

All the more reason right? Dhruva's mother Suniti? was also his siksa guru as one who showed the way. So there are levels of instructive ability. But simple or advanced the emphasis on dessiminating spiritual knowledge is always through siksa.

 

Also Srila Prabhupada has referred to vartmapradashaka gurus as also siksa gurus in his purports where Suniti also went back to Godhead along with Dhruva.

 

But no need to get hung up on definitions. because even by Sridhar's definition as given everyone of prabhupada's disciples are all ready supposed to be acting as vartmapradashaka gurus. (Why can't that word be shorter)

 

So we come full circle and so from even the angle that you presented there is no need for a specialy designated class of people as ritviks.

 

It is a concept that is now muddling the importance of spreading Prabhupada vani unemcumbered.

[Guruvani]

 

there is no need for a specialy designated class of people as ritviks.

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada appointed 11 ritviks, not a class.

He did tell the GBC members that the list could be extended as necessary and that was also confirmed by Sridhar Maharaja.

 

I don't doubt that Srila Prabhupada didn't expect and desire that many of his disciples would become fully qualified.

 

But, for the ISKCON administrative authority - the GBC, he gave them authority to conduct ritvik initiations.

 

He never said anything about that applying to each and every disciple he had.

 

As faith dictates, ISKCON should proceed, not artificially as they did with the zonal guru system that has never really been properly rectified.

 

Some zonal gurus are still in the same zones and taking disciples just because they are there.

[Guest guest]

The Acarya NEVER changes anything. He just makes minor adjustment for preaching. The claim from the ritviks is outrageous because it a RADICAL departure from tradition. Only bogus Acaryas do stuff like this. Srila Prabhupada is genuine.

 

Use you inteeligence rather than be brain washed by your fellow foolish ritviks. Srila Prabhupada himself said connection can be achieved by reading his books. Why do you idiots insist otherwise?

 

 

If the acharya appoints some disciples as ritvik that can hardly be called freelance.

 

The GBC asked how things would go on after the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

His instructions to the GBC was "ritvik".

 

If the GBC conducts a ritvik system, that can hardly be called freelance if it was directly instructed by the acharya of ISKCON.

 

the orders of the acharya are the only connection the disciple has to the spiritual master.

there is NOTHING freelance about following the direct orders of the acharya.

[Guruvani]

 

The Acarya NEVER changes anything. He just makes minor adjustment for preaching. The claim from the ritviks is outrageous because it a RADICAL departure from tradition. Only bogus Acaryas do stuff like this. Srila Prabhupada is genuine.

 

Use you inteeligence rather than be brain washed by your fellow foolish ritviks. Srila Prabhupada himself said connection can be achieved by reading his books. Why do you idiots insist otherwise?

It is not up to us to decide how much the acharya can adjust things.

Extreme situations sometimes demand extreme adjustments.

 

Bringing Krishna consciousuness out of India and into the whole of the western world is an EXTREME situation that requires extreme adjustments.

 

Westerners are just not capable of your "tradition".

 

You yourself can never meet "traditional" standards.

 

You obviously don't even know what the real tradition is or you certainly couldn't even classify yourself as a devotee, much less one who can decide how much the acharyas can adjust any standards or situations.

 

Nobody is following tradition, not the Gaudiya Matha, not Narayana Maharaja not ISKCON not anybody.

 

The "tradition" just cannot be maintained in the western world or even modern India which is rapidly becoming westernized.

India is not India anymore.

It's AmerIndia.

 

Western people just cannot even come close to the tradition.

 

do you chant 64 rounds?

 

Hey, that is the "tradition".

[Guest guest]

You go rambling on about how 'nobody' follows tradition. Speak for yourself. Because you are an incapable and weak person doesn't mean everyone is like that.

 

YOu don't know me, so stop acting like the Supersoul.

 

 

It is not up to us to decide how much the acharya can adjust things.

Extreme situations sometimes demand extreme adjustments.

 

Bringing Krishna consciosuness out of India and into the whole of the western world is an EXTREME situation that requires extreme adjustments.

 

Westerners are just not capable of your "tradition".

 

You yourself can never meet "traditional" standards.

 

You obviously don't even know what the real tradition is or your certainly couldn't even classify yourself as a devotee, much less one who can decide how much the acharyas can adjust any standards of situations.

 

Nobody is following tradition, not the Gaudiya Matha, not Narayana Maharaja not ISKCON not anybody.

 

The "tradition" just cannot be maintained in the western world or even modern India which is rapidly becoming westernized.

India is not India anymore.

It's AmerIndia.

 

Western people just cannot even come close to the tradition.

 

do you chant 64 rounds?

 

Hey, that is the "tradition".

[Guruvani]

 

You go rambling on about how 'nobody' follows tradition. Speak for yourself. Because you are an incapable and weak person doesn't mean everyone is like that.

 

YOu don't know me, so stop acting like the Supersoul.

 

If you think you meet the traditional standards then I would just say that you are bluffing or not facing the truth.

 

You do not meet the standards of the tradition.

 

Don't try to bluff us into believing that you do.

 

So, you manufacture your own amount of the tradition you like.

 

Well, that is not within your authority to do.

 

The acharyas decide how much if any of the tradition we can follow.

It is not up to little you and me to decide.

[muralidhar_das]

 

"Drop the word ritvik and just use siksa guru"

 

Are you sure? In our Saraswata sampradaya siksa is definitely more important than diksa

Both siksa and diksa are necessary.

 

All of the Acharyyas in the Parampara of Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura went to a walking, talking person and heard the diksa mantras from him.

[muralidhar_das]

 

Nobody is following tradition, not the Gaudiya Matha, not Narayana Maharaja not ISKCON not anybody.

 

The "tradition" just cannot be maintained in the western world or even modern India which is rapidly becoming westernized.

India is not India anymore.

It's AmerIndia.

 

Western people just cannot even come close to the tradition.

 

do you chant 64 rounds?

 

Hey, that is the "tradition".

Srila Prabhupada made a rule that devotees living at Chaitanya Math must all chant 64 rounds. I chant 64 rounds a day (or more) when I can and lots of "Gaudiya Math" devotees I know do 64 rounds every day.

[Guruvani]

Books are not the only connection in the ritvik system.

It is the instructions and the teachings and the orders of the spiritual master that are the vital ingrediant.

 

the instructions, orders and teachings of the acharya are the power and the mercy.

 

if we denounce the books then we are denouncing the teachings of the acharyas.

 

Even ritvik devotee cannot get ritvik initiation without serving and pleasing LIVING VAISHNAVAS, so to say that ritvik is based on books is in fact a false idea that merely minimized the acharya and his right to delegate authority to whomever he chooses.

 

Tell me of one devotee that has ever gotten ritvik initiation without satisfying the living, breathing Vaishnavas that the acharya empowered?

 

 

Ritvik devotees are as much in touch with living Vaishnavas as any other devotee, more so than the BOOK vadis who reject the ritvik system.

 

the ritvik system necessitates a living connection with an authorized living representative of the acharya.

 

Ritvik is not BOOKVADA. It is about serving the senior disciples of the acharya.

[Guruvani]

 

 

All of the Acharyyas in the Parampara of Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura went to a walking, talking person and heard the diksa mantras from him.

Well, Srila Prabhupada is the acharya of ISKCON and he gave mantra by tape.

We are not concerned with what the Gaudiya Matha did.

 

We are concerned with what Srila Prabhupada gave for ISKCON and the western Krishna consciousness movement.

 

Neither you nor I are disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur.

We have not business with him.

 

Our business is with our own spiritual masters.

 

We can't jump back a couple of generations and judge what the recent acharyas have given.

 

the acharya is "as good as God".

That was Mahaprabhu's position.

 

To deny that is apa-siddhanta.