Ananta Sesa Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Anybody who has a clue? I myself don´t remember how it went... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Anybody who has a clue? I myself don´t remember how it went... I read something somewhere that souls come down in rain and enter into grains and then enter into sperm from that. but, that was I think a description of souls falling from higher planets. I don't know if that applies to all souls or not. to me it makes sense that the sperm is the material seed and then when the sperm and egg combine there is the first chance for a soul to enter a body. the body starts when the egg and sperm combine. a don't see how a sperm alone can support life. It takes sperm and egg to start the body that supports life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I feel the urge to sing a particular Monty Python song at the moment, but will restrain myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ananta Sesa Posted July 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I read something somewhere that souls come down in rain and enter into grains and then enter into sperm from that. but, that was I think a description of souls falling from higher planets. I don't know if that applies to all souls or not. But then the odds for these "heavenly souls" must be extremely small to be number 1 in the sperm race... 1 out of billions of other competitors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I won't claim to know the answer to this question, but, to extrapolate upon what theist said not too long ago--every cell in our bodies has a soul. Since they are semi-autonomous beings (can live outside of the body for some time), it stands to reason that each spermatazoa would have a soul (and a Supersoul). But then the odds for these "heavenly souls" must be extremely small to be number 1 in the sperm race... 1 out of billions of other competitors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 But then the odds for these "heavenly souls" must have been extremely small to be n:o 1 in the sperm race... 1 out of billions other competitors... It's not a matter of chance. The Paramatma Supersoul decides the next birth and the next body. The souls are all sparks of his effulgence and the Supersoul decides who gets what body in their next birth. So, the whole goal is to please the Lord in the heart so that he will gives us a suitable body for performing devotional service. Bhaktivinode prayed that at the least he wanted to be a bug in the house of Vaishnava. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirisilex Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 The Tibetan Book of the Dead discusses the process from Death to Birth. Is there a text within "hinduism" (Or is it Sanatana Dharma?) similar to the Tibetan Book of the Dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I won't claim to know the answer to this question, but, to extrapolate upon what theist said not too long ago--every cell in our bodies has a soul. Since they are semi-autonomous beings (can live outside of the body for some time), it stands to reason that each spermatazoa would have a soul (and a Supersoul). I have never heard any description that each cell of the body has a soul. The cells in the body get their LIFE from the soul of the human being. The soul of the body spreads it's conciousness throughout the body through blood circulation. So, body cells appear to have life because of the consciousness of the human soul. Atoms appear to have life, but do they have a soul?(other than the Superoul?) There is an inferior energy that Lord Krishna describes in Bhagavad-gita. Not all "energy" is the superior energy of the jivatama. There is a lot of energy of the inferior nature. All energy is not para-prakriti. There is prakriti as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 The soul enters first the sperm and then travels to the egg. This is covered by Kapila in the chapter called movements of the living entities. Cells are also individual souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ananta Sesa Posted July 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 The soul enters first the sperm and then travels to the egg. This is covered by Kapila in the chapter called movements of the living entities. Cells are also individual souls. But there is a soul also in the egg-cell before the soul in the sperm hits the egg...so what happens to that soul in the egg at the conception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Cells are also individual souls. Other than your personal statement, can you show proof from the authorized shastra. You might be correct, but I would like to see that in the books of Srila Prabhupada if you can support that with a proper reference. If you can show that, fine with me. If you can't then I am not ready to buy it. Every atom has a soul - the Supersoul. But, that is not a jivatama in every atom of the prakriti. there is the lesser form of energy that does not have the jivatma. I am not just trying to argue. But, please show authoritative reference to establish your conclusions. Your personal remark is not sufficient evidence in discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirisilex Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I had an experience that I had always thought was a memory from being within my mothers womb. There were high pitched sounds and flying colors.. and my mind felt as if it was being ripped apart. It wasnt exactly the most pleasent of memories. When I was a Buddhist we were discussing the Tibetan Book of the Dead and there was a description about one of the Bardos that fit my experience exactly. Again I ask if anyone knows of a Text that deals with the cycle of Reincarnation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I had an experience that I had always thought was a memory from being within my mothers womb. There were high pitched sounds and flying colors.. and my mind felt as if it was being ripped apart. It wasnt exactly the most pleasent of memories. When I was a Buddhist we were discussing the Tibetan Book of the Dead and there was a description about one of the Bardos that fit my experience exactly. Again I ask if anyone knows of a Text that deals with the cycle of Reincarnation? Gaudiya Vaishnava books deal with freedom from reincarnation, not reincarnation. Spiritual knowledge is not about the science of reincarnation, but about freedom from reincarnation. Details of reincarnation are not important in self-realization. Such knowledge is material and useless in spiritual realization. Vaishnavism is the science of self-realization, not science of reincarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccoy77 Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Krishna says i am in every atom...means, In each atom there is a Super-Soul, not necessary a Soul(Jiva). So Sperms which are moving under the microscope could possess a Super-Soul within each Sperm. The Paramatma is in every living and non-living enity. The Souls lowest Existence is possibly a Bacteria,Grass I don't think it can go even lower than that. Lower than that consitutes of the Super Soul. If there are other arguments on this i would like to hear. Hare Krsna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 But there is a soul also in the egg-cell before the soul in the sperm hits the egg...so what happens to that soul in the egg at the conception? There is also a soul in the sperm that the jiva destined to be human rides in on. (insert your 'own surf's' up joke here). I don't know basic biology enough to be confident that there is also a soul there but I highly think so. So the soul that is experience materiallife as a sperm dies off( same with the eggi f indeed there is one) and the soul destined to be human lives on to experience embryonic, fetal & baby life as the human form takes shape. We know a soul is present when we see that the organism goes through the changes of birth, existence for sometime ,growth (metabolism),aging, the production of by-products as in cell division and unltimately death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Guest: From what I've heard, I've heard it explained that the body is made up of many, many different living entities.Prabhupäda: Huh? Guest: Our soul is just like the controlling soul. Can you explain that? Prabhupäda: What is that? Pradyumna: He's heard it explained that the body is made up of many, many different entities. Living entities. Guest: That within each cell is like a living entity. The soul is just the controlling... Devotee: ...or that each cell is a living entity. Prabhupäda: Yes, all right. What is the wrong there?-lec 1992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I had an experience that I had always thought was a memory from being within my mothers womb. There were high pitched sounds and flying colors.. and my mind felt as if it was being ripped apart. It wasnt exactly the most pleasent of memories. When I was a Buddhist we were discussing the Tibetan Book of the Dead and there was a description about one of the Bardos that fit my experience exactly. Again I ask if anyone knows of a Text that deals with the cycle of Reincarnation? Natural question. I don't know of any specifically dedicated to the intricaies of the topic but I would imagine there is one. The knowledge seems to be spread out through the literature somewhat, little here little more there. It is important to grasps the basics and then try to transcend the cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 There is also a soul in the sperm that the jiva destined to be human rides in on. (insert your 'own surf's' up joke here). I don't know basic biology enough to be confident that there is also a soul there but I highly think so. So the soul that is experience materiallife as a sperm dies off( same with the eggi f indeed there is one) and the soul destined to be human lives on to experience embryonic, fetal & baby life as the human form takes shape. We know a soul is present when we see that the organism goes through the changes of birth, existence for sometime ,growth (metabolism),aging, the production of by-products as in cell division and unltimately death. Earth,water,fire,air,ether,mind,ego and intelligence are all inferior energy. Cells of these form of matter are included in the inferior energy. Cells do not possess consciousness. thus, they are inferior energy and do not have individual souls in each cell. Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 7.4 bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaḿ mano buddhir eva ca ahańkāra itīyaḿ me bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā SYNONYMS bhūmiḥ — earth; āpaḥ — water; analaḥ — fire; vāyuḥ — air; kham — ether; manaḥ — mind; buddhiḥ — intelligence; eva — certainly; ca — and; ahańkāraḥ — false ego; iti — thus; iyam — all these; me — My; bhinnā — separated; prakṛtiḥ — energies; aṣṭadhā — eightfold. TRANSLATION Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego — all together these eight constitute My separated material energies. These cells are the seperated material energy of Paramatma. He is the soul of these material energies - not the jiva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 You ask me to back up my statement which is fair enough and now I ask you to back up the statement that cells don't contain consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 You ask me to back up my statement which is fair enough and now I ask you to back up the statement that cells don't contain consciousness. I just did. apparently, you are missing what Lord Krishna is saying in Bhagavad-gita. cells are material energy. they don't have souls or consciousness. the lowest form of life is an amoeba. a tissue cell is not an amoeba. a cell is not a form of life. it is a building block for a form of life. tissue cells are not the same as single cell amoeba. the body is made of material energy according to Lord Krishna. if there were souls in each tissue cell then the body would be made of spiritual energy too - other jivas. it is not. Our bodies are not made of other jivas. to think so is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Can't just say that you do not know can you guruvani. I produce a statement from Srila prabhupada that was very direct, Your quote does not address the issue. Take it or leave I will not waste any time endulging your need to argue at all costs.r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Can't just say that you do not know can you guruvani. I produce a statement from Srila prabhupada that was very direct, Your quote does not address the issue. Take it or leave I will not waste any time endulging your need to argue at all costs.r that wasn't a quote that supported your argument. that was far from conclusive. if there were souls in every cell our bodies wouldn't be made of material energy but of spiritual energy. Cells multiply through chemical changes not by consciousness. cells aren't born. they are multiplied through chemical cell division. chemicals create the "life" of a cell, not consciouness. cells are chemicals interacting, not living beings. you are obvioulsy confusing chemistry with consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 <table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber5" border="0" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="750"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1pt solid windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt;" colspan="5" bgcolor="#800000" valign="top" width="657"> The Four Major Types of Macromolecules Found in Living Cells </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> Macromolecule </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> Elements </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> Monomer </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> Polymer </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> example </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" valign="top"> Carbohydrate </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" valign="top"> C, H, O </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" valign="top"> Simple sugars </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" valign="top"> Polysaccharide </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" valign="top"> Starch </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" valign="top"> Lipids </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" valign="top"> C, H, O </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" valign="top"> Fatty acids & glycerol </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" valign="top"> Lipid </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" valign="top"> Fats, oils, waxes </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" valign="top"> Proteins </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" valign="top"> C, H, O, N, S </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" valign="top"> Amino acids </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" valign="top"> Polypeptides </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" valign="top"> Insulin </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" valign="top"> Nucleic acids </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" valign="top"> C, H, O, P </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" valign="top"> Nucleotides </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" valign="top"> Nucleic acids </td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" valign="top"> DNA </td></tr></tbody></table> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Much of a cell's activities involve the arranging and rearranging and bonding of macromolecules. It is the job of DNA both directly and indirectly to coordinate and direct these activities. DNA directs these chemical activities that lead to cell division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Let's not forget that the creator of this universe is also the supreme chemical engineer. Chemicals mimic life in they way they interact. But, chemical interaction does not always evidence the existence of a jiva soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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