Did we enter the body at conception or we were already in the sperm before?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

The quote below doesn't exactly talk about the soul in each cell, but very nice nonetheless.

 

However, if we think about blood cells for a moment, can't they be extracted from the body, stored frozen, then thawed and injected into another person? The cells remain alive during the process!

 

If so, and if there is only one soul in the body, how can we explain the independent life of the blood cells? If there is only one soul animating the body and the blood and that blood is taken and placed into another person, does that mean part of their soul has been transferred as well?

 

Not likely!! So, logically (if not siddhantically) we can conclude that each blood cell must have a soul.

 

 

http://vedabase.net/bg/14/11/

 

 

TRANSLATION

The manifestations of the mode of goodness can be experienced when all the gates of the body are illuminated by knowledge.

PURPORT

There are nine gates in the body: two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, the mouth, the genitals and the anus. When every gate is illuminated by the symptoms of goodness, it should be understood that one has developed the mode of goodness. In the mode of goodness, one can see things in the right position, one can hear things in the right position, and one can taste things in the right position. One becomes cleansed inside and outside. In every gate there is development of the symptoms of happiness, and that is the position of goodness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have never heard any description that each cell of the body has a soul.

The cells in the body get their LIFE from the soul of the human being.

 

The soul of the body spreads it's conciousness througout the body through blood circulation. So, body cells appear to have life because of the consciousness of the human soul.

 

Atoms appear to have life, but do they have a soul?(other than the Superoul?)

 

There is an inferior energy that Lord Krishna describes in Bhagavad-gita.

Not all "energy" is the superior energy of the jivatama.

 

There is a lot of energy of the inferior nature.

All energy is not para-prakriti.

There is prakriti as well.

[krsna]

 

I read something somewhere that souls come down in rain and enter into grains and then enter into sperm from that.

 

but, that was I think a description of souls falling from higher planets.

I don't know if that applies to all souls or not.

 

to me it makes sense that the sperm is the material seed and then when the sperm and egg combine there is the first chance for a soul to enter a body.

 

the body starts when the egg and sperm combine.

 

a don't see how a sperm alone can support life.

 

It takes sperm and egg to start the body that supports life.

 

Please find the reference in the Bhagavatam. I'd to much obliged to hear from Prabhupada and sastra the take on how the soul descends into this world, planet earth.

Thanks. :pray: :pray:

[theist]

Murali's point on the independence of the soul outside the human body makes the point clear. Even within the body the cell has it's independence.

 

Cells have their own independent metabolisms. They take in nutrients, process them and then excrete the used molecular material just as the human form does.

 

At some point the cell is no longer able to metabolize nutrients. At that point the cell is said to be dead. That is the sign the soul that energized the cell through it's lifeforce has departed.

 

At some point the human form is no longer able to metabolize nutrients. At that point the human form is said to be dead. That is the sign the soul that energized the human form through it's lifeforce has departed.

 

One jiva was karmicly destined to live a cell's life and another was desitined to live as a human.

 

From an expanded perspective we are cells on the body that is known as Earth. We come and go in the life of the Earth without effecting the Earth herself. But when Bhumi the soul of the earth leaves the planet we lose the enviroment that made our individual metabolism possible and we also leave our bodies. But that does not mean we are not conscious souls inhabiting tiny bodies that together make up the structure of the earth.

 

So to corrolate enviromental dependence of a small unit on a larger unit with the the idea that only the large unit has soul makes no sense and is not demonstrable in nature whereas the opposite is demonstrable in nature.

 

Cells contain jiva's.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Well said.

 

From the scientific perspective even, we really can't say that what happens in the cell is purely chemical (despite Guruvani's best attempts). For one thing, electromagnetism has a large role to play.

 

As refined as the scientific view of the cell has become (including DNA/RNA, enzymatic action, etc.), there is still so much about the workings of the cell that we *don't* understand well. To try to reduce cells to a list of chemicals is a gross oversimplification.

 

I've heard it said that even DNA can't explain the full variegatedness of life--that is to say the consciousness of the being itself shapes the form of the body beyond the templates of genetics.

 

Certainly, as theist points out, there is some life, some consciousness in the cell since it can die (and reproduce). Furthermore, as an example of independence (and a metaphor for our fallen state, perhaps), cells can turn against the body and become cancerous.

 

It's certainly safe to say that the consciousness of the cell jiva is not the same as the consciousness of the mayor of the city of nine gates. The cell jiva will not perceive things in the same way as the predominating jiva (brahma, if you will) of the body.

 

 

Murali's point on the independence of the soul outside the human body makes the point clear. Even within the body the cell has it's independence.

 

Cells have their own independent metabolisms. They take in nutrients, process them and then excrete the used molecular material just as the human form does.

 

At some point the cell is no longer able to metabolize nutrients. At that point the cell is said to be dead. That is the sign the soul that energized the cell through it's lifeforce has departed.

 

At some point the human form is no longer able to metabolize nutrients. At that point the human form is said to be dead. That is the sign the soul that energized the human form through it's lifeforce has departed.

 

One jiva was karmicly destined to live a cell's life and another was desitined to live as a human.

 

From an expanded perspective we are cells on the body that is known as Earth. We come and go in the life of the Earth without effecting the Earth herself. But when Bhumi the soul of the earth leaves the planet we lose the enviroment that made our individual metabolism possible and we also leave our bodies. But that does not mean we are not conscious souls inhabiting tiny bodies that together make up the structure of the earth.

 

So to corrolate enviromental dependence of a small unit on a larger unit with the the idea that only the large unit has soul makes no sense and is not demonstrable in nature whereas the opposite is demonstrable in nature.

 

Cells contain jiva's.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/vedicsociety/Challenges%20Facing%20Science%20and%20Religion.pdf

Page 14

 

 

With the recent development of biochemistry, the task of explaining the origin of complex organs and functions has become even more daunting. In Darwin’s day, the living cell seemed to be a simple bag of chemicals. Now it is seen to be a high-precision molecular machine far more complex than our most advanced computers.

 

 

<table style="border-collapse: collapse;" id="AutoNumber5" border="0" bordercolor="#111111" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="750"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1pt solid windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt;" colspan="5" bgcolor="#800000" valign="top" width="657">

 

The Four Major Types of Macromolecules Found in Living Cells

 

</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> Macromolecule

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> Elements

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> Monomer

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> Polymer

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" bgcolor="#004000" valign="top"> example

</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" valign="top"> Carbohydrate

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" valign="top"> C, H, O

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" valign="top"> Simple sugars

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" valign="top"> Polysaccharide

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" valign="top"> Starch

</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" valign="top"> Lipids

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" valign="top"> C, H, O

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" valign="top"> Fatty acids & glycerol

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" valign="top"> Lipid

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" valign="top"> Fats, oils, waxes

</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" valign="top"> Proteins

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" valign="top"> C, H, O, N, S

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" valign="top"> Amino acids

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" valign="top"> Polypeptides

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" valign="top"> Insulin

</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 130px;" valign="top"> Nucleic acids

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 97px;" valign="top"> C, H, O, P

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 148px;" valign="top"> Nucleotides

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 106px;" valign="top"> Nucleic acids

</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 131px;" valign="top"> DNA

</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Guruvani]

I haven't seen any proof that a tissue cell of a body has a soul.

Krishna says in the Gita that the human body is a machine made out of material energy.

If there were souls in every cell of the body then the body could not be said to be made out of material energy. Because the body would also be made out of para-prakriti as well as apara-prankriti.

 

Cell division and cell life is effected by chemistry, not by jivatma.

 

The soul of the material energy is Paramatma, not atma.

 

The lifeforce behind the life of a cell is Paramatma.

The material energy is his energy.

 

Tissue cells are matter not spirit.

Matter is the energy of Krishna

 

How many times have we heard that the body is made of material energy?

thousands.

 

If each cell of the human body had a soul, then our body would not be made of material energy. It would also have an element of spiritual energy within it.

 

It is very simple to understand.

 

Chemistry, not consciousness is what gives a tissue cell life.

 

When the chemicals wear out and break down the cell "dies", but really the cell never had "life" other than as a chemical reaction created by the interaction of chemicals where the acid DNA is present.

 

DNA is an acid. This acid causes chemical reactions within the cell.

Cells are about chemistry not about consciousness.

 

The consciousness behind the chemistry, the Paramatma is the soul of material energy, not the jivas.

[Ananta Sesa]

 

There is also a soul in the sperm that the jiva destined to be human rides in on.

 

But then that would mean that there are 2 jivas in the sperm..?

[Guruvani]

Here, Lord Krishna states quite definitively that the body is made of material energy under the direction of the Supersoul.

The body is made of matter, not jivas.

 

 

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 13.30

 

prakṛtyaiva ca karmāṇi

kriyamāṇāni sarvaśaḥ

yaḥ paśyati tathātmānam

akartāraḿ sa paśyati

 

SYNONYMS

prakṛtyā — by material nature; eva — certainly; ca — also; karmāṇi — activities; kriyamāṇāni — being performed; sarvaśaḥ — in all respects; yaḥ — anyone who; paśyati — sees; tathā — also; ātmānam — himself; akartāram — the nondoer; saḥ — he; paśyati — sees perfectly.

 

 

TRANSLATION

One who can see that all activities are performed by the body, which is created of material nature, and sees that the self does nothing, actually sees.

 

 

PURPORT

This body is made by material nature under the direction of the Supersoul, and whatever activities are going on in respect to one's body are not his doing. Whatever one is supposed to do, either for happiness or for distress, one is forced to do because of the bodily constitution. The self, however, is outside all these bodily activities. This body is given according to one's past desires. To fulfill desires, one is given the body, with which he acts accordingly. Practically speaking, the body is a machine, designed by the Supreme Lord, to fulfill desires. Because of desires, one is put into difficult circumstances to suffer or to enjoy. This transcendental vision of the living entity, when developed, makes one separate from bodily activities. One who has such a vision is an actual seer.

 

 

If there were souls in each cell of the body, then the body could not be said to me made of material energy.

 

The Supersoul directs the development of the body including cell growth and cell division.

Each cell does not have a soul other than the Supersoul.

 

So, in one sense the cells do have a soul, but the soul of the cells is the Supersoul not a jiva.

[Guruvani]

the body is made of material energy.

it is such an elementary instruction that all devotees should understand.

 

the body is not made of jivas.

it is made of material energy under the direction of the Supersoul.

 

the Supersoul is alot more wonderful than is the soul and he is doing amazing things through his material energies.

 

We can't give the jivas credit for what the Supersoul is doing.

[Guruvani]

Krishna is smaller than the jiva too!

He enters into the material energies and is the Supersoul.

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 8.9 purport,

 

 

He is smaller than the smallest. The living entity is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of a hair, but the Lord is so inconceivably small that He enters into the heart of this particle. Therefore He is called smaller than the smallest. As the Supreme, He can enter into the atom and into the heart of the smallest and control him as the Supersoul. Although so small, He is still all-pervading and is maintaining everything.

 

since Krishna says the body is made of material energy, then the Supersoul must be behind cell life, growth and reproduction.

otherwise, the body would be made of spirit - billions of jivas.

[Guest guest]

Most cells forming the human body can be kept alive (often including multiplication) outside human body by special techniques thus satisfying a basic definition of a living entity.

 

Are there 2 jivas in the sperm cell? Quite likely, as the "travelling" jiva is usually described as beeing in a state of deep sleep. Thus it would appear that the "diver" (cell) jiva is separate from the travelling jiva.

 

These are all just speculations and there is no reason to get overly excited over this subject.

[Guest guest]

 

since Krishna says the body is made of material energy, then the Supersoul must be behind cell life, growth and reproduction.

otherwise, the body would be made of spirit - billions of jivas.

 

no, it simply means that the body of each living entity (including small single cell creatures) is made of earth, fire, water, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego. these are the material elements.

[Guruvani]

 

Most cells forming the human body can be kept alive (often including multiplication) outside human body by special techniques thus satisfying a basic definition of a living entity.

 

Are there 2 jivas in the sperm cell? Quite likely, as the "travelling" jiva is usually described as beeing in a state of deep sleep. Thus it would appear that the "diver" (cell) jiva is separate from the travelling jiva.

 

These are all just speculations and there is no reason to get overly excited over this subject.

 

Krishna is also a living entity.

But, he is the supreme living entity, the greatest and the smallest and anywhere in between.

 

So, signs of life don't have to be signs of an atma.

It could be a sign of Paramatma as well.

 

All the material energies working under his control.

[Guruvani]

 

no, it simply means that the body of each living entity (including small single cell creatures) is made of earth, fire, water, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego. these are the material elements.

 

that is not what Srila Prabhupada said.

 

He said "this body" is made of material energy. go read it again.

 

this body means "our bodies".

 

why does all sign of life have to be jiva?

Why cannot Paramatma also be the source of symptoms of life.

 

All life symptoms are not signs of jiva.

The life of Paramatma is giving life to the whole universe.

[Guest guest]

 

Krishna is also a living entity.

But, he is the supreme living entity, the greatest and the smallest and anywhere in between.

 

So, signs of life don't have to be signs of an atma.

It could be a sign of Paramatma as well.

 

All the material energies working under his control.

 

Paramatma does not get involved in material activities. You do not understand His function. Why would Krsna want to enact a "pastime" of being a cell lining the inside of your bunghole?

 

Why do you insist on making a difference between single celled organisms like protozoans and cells within a complex body? Biologically they are very much alike.

[Guruvani]

 

Paramatma does not get involved in material activities. You do not understand His function. Why would Krsna want to enact a "pastime" of being a cell lining the inside of your bunghole?

 

Why do you insist on making a difference between single celled organisms like protozoans and cells within a complex body? Biologically they are very much alike.

that is ignorant.

the whole of the material energy is under the control of Paramatma.

 

so, you are saying that there is somewhere that Krishna is not?

Krishna is in every atom and between every atom, even the atoms of the bunghole that you mentioned.

 

Krishna is absolutely everywhere.

 

The material energy is acting under the control if Paramatma.

 

To say that Paramatma is not involved in material energy is stupid.

 

I never said Krishna was involved in "material activities" that is stupid of you to say that.

 

He controls the material energy, but for him that is NOT a material activity.

 

Being Supersoul of every atom is not a material activity.

 

Krishna has already finished the argument.

The body is made of material energy, not jivas.

[krsna]

It is very interesting to note that there is a significant description about the science of embryology in Vedantic literatures. Srimad Bhagavatam, Third Canto mentions a brief description of human embryology. Garbhopanishad, one of the ancient Upanishads, also serves as a brief treatise on embryology. These are very relevant to modern science and technology.

 

According to Vedanta the manifestation of life begins from the moment of conception. Life first enters the semen of the male and is injected into a womb of a woman.10 Dr. Jerome Lejeune,11 known as "The Father of Modern Genetics," also said, "Life is present from the moment of conception" before the Louisiana Legislature's House Committee on the Administration of Criminal Justice on June 7, 1990. He explained that within three to seven days after fertilization we can determine if the new human being is a boy or a girl.

"At no time," Dr. Lejeune said, "is the human being a blob of protoplasm. As far as your nature is concerned, I see no difference between the early person that you were at conception and the late person which you are now. You were, and are, a human being." He pointed out that each human being is unique - different from the mother - from the moment of conception.12

 

A man's semen contains millions of cells called sperm cells (about 107 /ml). Each sperm cell is an actively motile, free-swimming and elongated cell from 60-75 in length. F.M

 

Burnet remarked about this sperm cell as "It is intimidating thought that there is more information on organic chemical synthesis packed into the head of a spermatozoon than in all the 200 volumes of the Journal of Biochemical Chemistry."13 According to Vedic literatures, spiritual particle, spiriton (soul) enters this sperm cell which then fertilizes the ovum, the female gamate, to form a single cell called zygote. The various stages of development of embryo in the womb of the mother are described in Srimad Bhagavatam

3.31.2-4, 3.31.10, 3.31.22-23:

 

"On the first night, the sperm and ovum mix (to form zygote), and on the fifth night the mixture ferments into a bubble (blastocyst). On the tenth night it develops into a form like a plum, and after that, it gradually turns into a lump of flesh."

 

"In the course of a month, a head is formed, and at the end of two months the hands, feet and other limbs take shape. By the end of three months, the nails, fingers, toes, body hair, bones and skin appear, as do the organ of generation and the other apertures in the eyes, nostrils, ears, mouth and anus.

 

"Within four months from the date of conception, the seven essential ingredients of the body, namely chyle, blood, flesh, fat, bone, marrow and semen, come into existence. At the end of five months, hunger and thirst make themselves felt, and at the end of six months, the fetus, enclosed by the amnion, begins to move on the right side of the abdomen.

 

"Deriving its nutrition from the food and drink taken by the mother, the fetus grows and remains in that abominable residence of stools and urine, which is the breeding place of all kinds of worms.

 

"Placed within the amnion and covered outside by the intestines, the child remains lying on one side of the abdomen, his head turned towards his belly and his back and neck arched like a bow.

 

"Thus endowed with the development of consciousness from the seventh month after his conception, the child is tossed downward by the airs that press the embryo during the weeks preceding delivery. Like the worms born of the same filthy abdominal cavity, he cannot remain in one place.

 

"Lord Kapila continued: The ten-month-old living entity has these desires even while in the womb. But while he thus extols the Lord, the wind that helps parturition propels him forth with his face turned downward so that he may be born. Pushed downward all of a sudden by the wind, the child comes out with great trouble, head downward, breathless and deprived of memory due to severe agony."14

 

In the Markandeya Purana it is said that in the intestine of the mother the umbilical cord, which is known as apyayani, joins the mother to the abdomen of the child, and through this passage the child within the womb accepts the mother's assimilated foodstuff. In this way the child is fed by the mother's intestine within the womb and grows from day to day. The role of the umbilical cord is also mentioned as - "The dhamanis in the fetus take their rise from the umbilical cord, thus bringing nourishment from the mother. The embryo is held at the navel. It grows without taking food, that is, there is no effort made on the part of the embryo to take food and no food is specially served to it. The food in its final form is assimilated automatically and directly into the system of the embryo. The child is nourished of its own accord as it were. The mother is not conscious of the nourishment given to the young one below her heart."15

 

There are also the restrictions and precautions to be taken by the pregnant mother mentioned in the smriti scriptures of Vedic literature. From the very day of begetting a child there is a purificatory process of garbhadhana-samskara. Garbhadhana Ceremony is a vedic ceremony of purification to be performed by parents before conceiving a child. It is said in Caraka Samhita that the mental condition of a child depends upon:16

 

(a) the mental status of his parents at the time he is conceived

(b) the sounds heard repeatedly by pregnant woman17

© the actions performed by the embryo in his previous life and

(d) the frequent desires for a particular type of mental faculty by the progeny

in his previous life.

 

Therefore, before begetting a child, one has to sanctify his perplexed mind. If the mind of the father is not sober, the semen discharged will not be very good. By performing this Garbhadana ceremony, both the husband and wife become completely pure and sanctified and a good child will be produced. (For example, Rig veda X. 186 mentions two mantras to be repeated by bridegroom before conception).

[Guruvani]

the Vedic literatures refers to the seed as a "drop" of semen, not as a sperm cell.

 

There is a reference in shastra of twins that were born because the semen entered the womb in two drops.

 

There is no proof that the Vedic version confirms life in every sperm cell, as the Vedas refer to semen in drops, not cells.

 

There are men who have semen but cannot produce a child.

 

The jiva comes in drops of semen not in sperm "cells".

 

Maybe the jiva then enters the embryo after one of the sperm cells fertilizes the egg.

 

There is no proof that a jiva is in every sperm cell.

 

The jiva is a spiritual particle.

It exists in the spiritual dimension, not in sperm cells.

[Guruvani]

also, life forms are always divided and classified by species.

 

I have never heard of a tissue cell in the body being classified as a species of life.

The human body is a species.

Individual cells of the body are not a species of life.

 

Bodies are made of material energy, not of other species of life.

[Guest guest]

 

also, life forms are always divided and classified by species.

 

I have never heard of a tissue cell in the body being classified as a species of life.

The human body is a species.

Individual cells of the body are not a species of life.

 

and out of 8,400,000 species of life how many can you name?

 

like I said earlier: it is all speculations, so dont obsess over it Guruvani

[Guruvani]

 

and out of 8,400,000 species of life how many can you name?

 

like I said earlier: it is all speculations, so dont obsess over it Guruvani

 

tissue cells are not a species.

the human is a species.

cells of the human body are not species of life.

they are material energy under the control of the Paramatma.

[theist]

 

TRANSLATION Bg 13.6-7

The five great elements, false ego, intelligence, the unmanifested, the ten senses and the mind, the five sense objects, desire, hatred, happiness, distress, the aggregate, the life symptoms, and convictions—all these are considered, in summary, to be the field of activities and its interactions.

 

PURPORT

From all the authoritative statements of the great sages, the Vedic hymns and the aphorisms of the Vedanta-sutra, the components of this world can be understood as follows. First there are earth, water, fire, air and ether. These are the five great elements (maha-bhuta). Then there are false ego, intelligence and the unmanifested stage of the three modes of nature. Then there are five senses for acquiring knowledge: the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin. Then five working senses: voice, legs, hands, anus and genitals. Then, above the senses, there is the mind, which is within and which can be called the sense within. Therefore, including the mind, there are eleven senses altogether. Then there are the five objects of the senses: smell, taste, form, touch and sound. Now the aggregate of these twenty-four elements is called the field of activity. If one makes an analytical study of these twenty-four subjects, then he can very well understand the field of activity. Then there are desire, hatred, happiness and distress, which are interactions, representations of the five great elements in the gross body. The living symptoms, represented by consciousness and conviction, are the manifestation of the subtle body-mind, ego and intelligence. These subtle elements are included within the field of activities.

The five great elements are a gross representation of the false ego, which in turn represents the primal stage of false ego technically called the materialistic conception, or tamasa-buddhi, intelligence in ignorance. This, further, represents the unmanifested stage of the three modes of material nature. The unmanifested modes of material nature are called pradhana.

One who desires to know the twenty-four elements in detail along with their interactions should study the philosophy in more detail. In Bhagavad-gita, a summary only is given.

The body is the representation of all these factors, and there are changes of the body, which are six in number: the body is born, it grows, it stays, it produces by-products, then it begins to decay, and at the last stage it vanishes. Therefore the field is a nonpermanent material thing. However, the kshetra-jna, the knower of the field, its proprietor, is different.

 

*Birth, producing by-products, duration, dwindling (aging) and death (dissolution) are six symptoms of life as expressed through matter (there is another I can't remeber right now) indicate the presence of a jivatma who is present with his convictions. The convictions as expressed by purpose of a cell may seem incidental or barely detectable by a human but exists nontheless.

 

Simple dull matter not under the direct influence of a spiritsoul exhibits none of these symptoms. Such matter only moves to entropy. This is the opposite of what we see in a living cell.

 

Why is one cell considered living and exhibiting life symptoms while another is seen as dead producing no symptoms of life and moving only to entropy? Obviously the difference is due to the presence of the life particle called the soul.

[gHari]

I'm not sure how authorative this is, but I heard way back that we start as a glint in our father's eye. I can't think of any sastric evidence though.

[Guruvani]

cells are not born.

they are split

 

tissue cells do not undergo "birth"

 

Srila Prabhupada gave the example that the blood cells are energized by the soul as they pass through the heart.

the life of the body cells comes from the soul of the body, not from souls in each cell.

 

If each blood cell had it's own soul it would not need to be energized in the heart by the soul of the human.

 

tissue cells appear to have life becase they are energized by the soul in the heart of the human.

 

sperm cells the same.

 

they all get energized by the soul in the heart of the human.

 

Srila Prabhupada already explained that.

 

An electric bunny appears to have life because it has a battery.

Tissue cells appear to have life because they get energy from the human soul in the heart.

 

just because something moves does not mean it has life.

 

tissue cells are little machines that get energy from the soul in the heart, not from an individual jiva in each cell.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

cells are not born.

they are split

 

Single celled organisms (amoeba, etc.) don't have reproductive organs either. They split. You're saying amoeba don't have souls?

 

 

If each blood cell had it's own soul it would not need to be energized in the heart by the soul of the human.

 

Totally illogical (Captain). By your reasoning, if each human body (or plant body) had it's own soul it would not need to be energized by the sun. Does that make any sense?

 

To say that cells are just bags of chemicals is no different from saying the human body is just a bag of chemicals--it is atheism.