Can There Be Many Acaryas?

[Guruvani]

 

By your own admission, you were a (blessed) peon at the time. What access did you have to the inner, political workings of ISKCON beyond hearsay and innuendo?

 

Well, I had access to many senior and elder Godbrothers who told me many things.

I didn't have access to Srila Prabhupada, but I had access to many older and more experienced Godbros.

 

Back then the older man were always eager to preach and teach.

It was awesome.

Now, I look back and hanker for those days again.

My years in ISKCON was just totally awesome.

Now, I look back and see how special it was.

 

I sat through several lectures of Srila Prabhupada.

[suchandra]

 

I didn't have access to Srila Prabhupada, but I had access to many older and more experienced Godbros.

 

In sum, as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura had appointed no successor to occupy the chair at the head of his institution but instead he ordered the institution to be managed by a fool-proof 'Governing Body Commission', that is, a three year board of elected directors of the kind that also safely runs modern corporate enterprises. 'Governing Body Commission' is in fact the name of the governing board of the British-established Indian Railways.

 

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura was attempting to construct a long-term corruption-free preaching mission effective in the modern global context but he would never expect that the rank&file class of Vaishnavas are so uneducated (although having passed the Bhakti Shastri Study Course) that they even can't figure when the fool-proof safety system, the GBC, is being annuled by motivated, enterprising leaders - short-circuited, by-passed, gone round, circumvented and sidestepped, what we find today. Not only the three years period is abolished but the leaders themselves occupy the post as GBC, what is like the contradiction of a mayor in a city who is at the same time also the police governor. People have become as such that they even applaud to such sharks. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja instituted a collection of reforms that rendered his mission suspect to many formed by and attached to prevailing practices, which they regarded as sanctified by sacred tradition. The idea of a GBC was one such innovation. Therefore, Vaishnavas like Narayana Swami, Paramadvaita Swami, Puri Maharaja and other GM splinter groups still reject to install a GBC. As Srila Prabhupada who tried to follow the instructions of his spiritual master in full, recounts it:

 

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, at the time of his departure, requested all his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities cooperatively. He did not instruct a particular man to become the next acarya. But just after his passing away, his leading secretaries made plans, without authority, to occupy the post of acarya, and they split into two factions over who the next acarya would be. Consequently, both factions were asara, or useless, because they had no authority, having disobeyed the order of the spiritual master. Despite the spiritual master's order to form a governing body and execute the missionary activities of the Gaudiya Matha, the two unauthorized factions began litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision. (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 12.8, purport)

[muralidhar_das]

You may think that the rules of a corporation can save you but I choose to believe in the gracious love of an empowered, living Guru.

[Guruvani]

The vision of Srila Saraswati Thakur and Srila Prabhupada in establabshing large, effective and prolific preaching missions was in the interest of the whole world. To spread Krishna consciousness far and wide requires a very organized effort of many talented individuals working in concert.

One old guru setting in a Matha in India cannot save the world.

It requires many preachers, much resource and a great effort on the part of a large preaching force.

 

Srila Saraswati Thakur and Srila Prabhupada had a great vision to change the face of the Earth. The "gracious love of an empowered guru" might be fine and dandy for a few individuals to satisfy their minds that they have a piece of the "tradition", but it is not the formula that is going to change the face of the Earth, alter the course of mankind and usher in an age of enlightenment accross the globe.

 

The vision and the goals of the great acharyas is to fufill the mission of Mahaprabhu to take Krishna consciousness to every town and villiage.

 

In this modern age that cannot be effected without a large organized effort on the part of many preachers.

 

Of course, to accomplish such a goal might require some adjustments to the old "traditions" that have kept the spiritual movement of Mahaprabhu bogged down in India for over four hundreds years.

 

An effective and well-organized effort on the part of a large group of Vaishnavas is required to expand the mission of Mahaprabhu all over the world.

After the break-up of the Gaudiya Matha the chances of that happening were nil until Srila Prabhupada managed to come to the west and organize ISKCON.

The successes of ISKCON are sufficient testimony of the effectiveness of a well-organized effort where the individual ego has to be dissolved into the group dynamic.

It requires a good management system.

 

The idealogues of the "tradition" couldn't, wouldn't and didn't accomplish anything significant on their own.

 

In the end, the management system of Srila Saraswati Thakur proved to in fact be a successful concept against the failure of the "traditional" fashion.

[suchandra]

 

You may think that the rules of a corporation can save you but I choose to believe in the gracious love of an empowered, living Guru.

Somehow this has no authority and disobeyes the order of the current link to the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya Sampradaya, Srila Prabhupada. How such ideas can come out successful for spreading Lord Caitanya's Sankirtan movement in every town and village? With your idea you might experience some temporary advantage, but isnt the actual meaning of spiritual life to carefully follow the guidelines of the bonafide Acarya?

Even members of other Sampradayas warn us not to disobey our guru, Srila Prabhupada:

 

 

Dear Sri Vaishanavas

 

One of the important tenets in being a Vaishanava is:

 

To fully obey the Acraya's instructions there are no if's and but's and

no partial agreement to his orders.The Acarya takes great pains to come

to this Bhooloka from his exalted postion to offer salvation to the

fallen souls (Ourselves).The Acarya teaches by many

methods, he instructs and follows what he instructs to his disciples and

others.

 

Bhagavan Sri Krishna himself set an example of what happens if you do

not follow his instructions. In the end of Krishna Avataar, Bhagavan Sri

Krishna is killed by an arrow from a hunters bow

which strikes him on the big toe of his leg. The story goes that when

Sri Krishna's Guru asked him to apply the "payaasam" all over his body,

he did but forgot to cover the small portion of his toe. As I am quoting

from memory the details are not very clearly presented.This story is

only an attempt to bring about the importance of Acaryas instructions.

 

 

There is no question of Sri Krishna being killed or anyone at all being

killed any where. We are all spirit souls and we have all existed

eternally.Our main purpose in life is to go back to Sri Vaikuntam, our

eternal abode and every effort should be expended in that direction

only. There cannot be any consideration for one's family, society,

status etc as all this are temporary. Annamacarya Sings in Telugu

"Na Naati Bhathuku Natakammu.." which means Day to Day life is

nothing but a Drama, he furhter goes on to say "Puttatu Nijamu Povattumu

Nijamu.." It is true that we are born and it is also true that along

with the birth, death is also manifest.

 

Along with these truths our Acaryas have also given the path to

salvation , like Sripada Sankracarya sang. I know he is an Advaitin but

he also sang Bhaja Govindam..

 

"Bhaja Govindam , Bhaja Govindam , Govindam Bhaja Mudamathe..."

 

He also implores us to say the name of "Govinda" only. Time is short

friends, as Kali progresses Shastra's will be lost, Bhramins &

vaishnavas will be almost non-existent and those taking birth in that

time frame will be the most fallen. So make haste when there is still

hope for salvation, forget all other considerations and chant the holy

name of the Lord, so that he will come on GarudaAlzwars shoulder to save

us from the ocean of material existence faster than the speed of the

mind.

 

 

adiYen,

 

Sriram,Balaraman.

 

[Guruvani]

 

You may think that the rules of a corporation can save you but I choose to believe in the gracious love of an empowered, living Guru.

That shows a rather brash and impudent regard for the Vaishnava committees that are trying to oversee the mission of the Saraswata sampradaya to spread Krishna consciousness all over the world.

The GBC is in fact a board of Vaishnava Brahmans who are faced with a daunting task of managing an international society of devotees.

It is not an easy talk.

The Gaudiya Matha made NO progress on that path.

 

So, to reduce down a board of Vaishnava brahmans to "rules of a corperation" is quite a presumptuous judgement.

 

Maybe the good judgement of a committe of sincere Vaishnavas will ultimately prevail and ISKCON can be recharged with dynamism and strength?

 

It's not over yet.

 

There is still time for ISKCON to rise like a Phoenix from the fire of tribulation and reclaim the glory it rightly deserves.

 

Like Yogi Berra said: "It ain't over till its over".

[Guest guest]

 

Maybe the good judgement of a committe of sincere Vaishnavas will ultimately prevail and ISKCON can be recharged with dynamism and strength?

 

It's not over yet.

 

Maybe if GBC members are actually elected by rank and file Iskcon devotees things will change for the better. The current cliques in this body make any real reform impossible. DOM should be followed.

[Guruvani]

 

Maybe if GBC members are actually elected by rank and file Iskcon devotees things will change for the better. The current cliques in this body make any real reform impossible. DOM should be followed.

good point.

as they say, the chain is only as good as it's weakest link.

 

there are obviously some weak links in the GBC chain.

 

as disciples of the system gurus in ISKCON take over the GBC, there will eventually be a total breakdown and the machinery will no longer be able to work at all.

then, the "fall from ISKCON" guru system will render ISKCON as a dinosaur suitable for a musuem only.

 

hundreds of lightening bugs can never light up this dark world.

The Sun of Srila Prabhupada must shine forth or there is no hope for this miserable planet.

[Guest guest]

 

as disciples of the system gurus in ISKCON take over the GBC, there will eventually be a total breakdown and the machinery will no longer be able to work at all.

 

Actually it is Prabhupada's disciples that always were, and still are, the root of the problem. I have not met a more conceited, impractical and quarrelsome bunch of people in my life. Things can only improve when they exit out of the picture.

[Guruvani]

 

Actually it is Prabhupada's disciples that always were, and still are, the root of the problem. I have not met a more conceited, impractical and quarrelsome bunch of people in my life. Things can only improve when they exit out of the picture.

 

when, where, who?

or are you just making vague generalizations?

 

after a bunch of young people give the best years of their life to the mission of their spiritual master just to watch it deteriorate into a pathetic shell of it's former self, don't they have a right to be vocal and critical of those that have mismanaged?

 

but, since you probably didn't give the best years of your life to service in ISKCON, you probably could care less.

 

If you think you can dump all these accusations on the disciples of Srila Prabhupada I would just have to think that you are in denial because it serves your agenda quite nicely.

 

there is plenty of guilt to go around to all quarters.

you are only fooling yourself if you think all the blame goes to the disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

 

they are the ones that built the movement that next generation wants for themselves.

 

if we have anything to say about it, it will never happen.

[Vigraha]

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The Important action is to chant Hare Krishna and eventually what we all need to know will be revealed

 

[Guest guest]

 

... since you probably didn't give the best years of your life to service in ISKCON, you probably could care less.

 

If you think you can dump all these accusations on the disciples of Srila Prabhupada I would just have to think that you are in denial because it serves your agenda quite nicely.

 

I have watched how the sanga and the facilities myself and other devotees of my generation have built over the years was turned by Prabhupada's disciples into a cult. After they have run it into the ground, we are gradually reclaiming what is left, turning it over to the local devotees, to be managed strictly without interference from outsiders (jet-lag swamis and their minions). This is the future. We are the future. We are the real Iskcon.

 

You bet I care. Here is a quote for you as an illustration:

 

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

[Vigraha]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Krishna always protects His devotees

 

[Murali_Mohan_das]

This is a generalization which might have some validity.

 

At the same time, let me relate a brief anecdote.

 

A couple of years ago, in L.A. the night before Ratha Yatra, I attended a concert performance by Gauravani Prabhu and As Kindred Spirits at a yoga studio in Santa Monica.

 

I witnessed a loving exchange that melted my heart.

 

Two Prabhupada disciples--Naranarayana Visvakarma Prabhu and Bharadraj Prabhu (father of Gauravani) saw each other and greeted each other.

 

Naranarayan Prabhu said to Bharadraj (or is it Bharadvaj?? (sp?)), "good to see you--no, good to be seen *by* you!"

 

It seems so simple, but if you could see the love and appreciation on their faces, I have no doubt that your heart would have melted too.

 

We are a family. Families often quarrel. When it comes time to go out on Hari Nama Sankirttan, we put our quarrels behind us and try to serve the Holy Name.

 

 

Actually it is Prabhupada's disciples that always were, and still are, the root of the problem. I have not met a more conceited, impractical and quarrelsome bunch of people in my life. Things can only improve when they exit out of the picture.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Now, you're talking!!!!

 

All Glories to the Holy Names!!

 

 

 

The Important action is to chant Hare Krishna and eventually what we all need to know will be revealed

 

 

[Vigraha]

[

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Krishna is who everyone is looking for

 

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[muralidhar_das]

 

One old guru setting in a Matha in India cannot save the world

 

I believe you are wrong here.

[Guest guest]

 

I have watched how the sanga and the facilities myself and other devotees of my generation have built over the years was turned by Prabhupada's disciples into a cult. After they have run it into the ground, we are gradually reclaiming what is left, turning it over to the local devotees, to be managed strictly without interference from outsiders (jet-lag swamis and their minions). This is the future. We are the future. We are the real Iskcon.

 

You bet I care. Here is a quote for you as an illustration:

 

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

 

We are still experiencing the aftermath of the zonal acraya fiasco. ISKCON has been restructured into another organized mundane religion, complete with clergy and cardinal college. If it weren't for the fact of the existing infrastructure I would not recognize it. Especially due to the total lack of spiritual potency (shakti).

And yes it's the GBC hegemony, corrupt as it is.

[Guruvani]

 

I believe you are wrong here.

 

now, look who is being sentimental.......

 

It's too late anyway.

 

Srila Prabhupada already saved the world.

[muralidhar_das]

 

Somehow this has no authority and disobeyes the order of the current link to the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya Sampradaya, Srila Prabhupada.

 

Ummm... please provide me with evidence that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is "the current link"

[muralidhar_das]

 

now, look who is being sentimental.......

 

It's too late anyway.

 

Srila Prabhupada already saved the world.

 

Yeah things are all perfect in this world. Especially at the American hospital in Germany where your war wounded get fitted with artificial arms and legs.

[Guruvani]

 

Ummm... please provide me with evidence that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is "the current link"

 

why are you asking for proof in matters of faith?

faith cannot be verified but through love.

 

love will connect us to our master...

[suchandra]

 

why are you asking for proof in matters of faith?

faith cannot be verified but through love.

 

love will connect us to our master...

 

Thanks for you clarifying all this, posting finally requires like everything else, full dedication to make it right. Here another quote by Prabhupada how to achiev perfection, no mentioning of seeking the vapu of spiritual master:

 

"Study our literatures attentively and try to understand the philosophy nicely with the help of your God-brothers. Always work cooperatively to spread Krsna consciousness movement and chant Hare Krsna and your life will be sublime."

 

18 July, 1970 Los Angeles Letter to Tribhuvanatha das

http://prabhupadaletters1970.blogspot.com/2006_07_16_prabhupadaletters1970_archive.html#115304366690383161

[muralidhar_das]

Suchandra I can respect your feeling of faith in His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

 

But please be mindful that there are other devotees in this world who have faith in other Vaishnavas besides your Srila Prabhupada. Some of these Vaishnavas I know were chanting Hare Krishna and following Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur for 70 years. Iskcon is not the only Sampradaya.

[Guest guest]

ISKCON is not a sampradaya - it is a religious organization, a church degnerated from a spiritual movement.