Can you *prove* God?

[Ananta Sesa]

This is a typical argument from the atheistic class of men...

 

 

What is your best answer to such people?

 

Did Srila Prabhupada have any standard answer on this challenging question?

[Guruvani]

don't try to prove God to them people.

 

just walk away and let God teach 'em who is boss.

 

You only preach to the innocent, not the demons.

[suchandra]

 

This is a typical argument from the atheistic class of men...

 

 

What is your best answer to such people?

 

Did Srila Prabhupada have any standard answer on this challenging question?

Prabhupada would point out that everything in nature is made so perfect that anyone with intelligence can understand that there must be an intelligent creator. For example, the human eyes have 110 million pixels each, how something so perfect can be created without a genuis, God?

[gHari]

I do not know how Srila Prabhupada would have responded, but this is how gHari responds:

 

"Can you *prove* God?" Yes, anyone can. God can be proven scientifically. One must meticulously execute the experiment outlined by Lord Sri Krishna in the scientific treatise known as the Bhagavad-gita. Various processes are offered to eventually cleanse the dust from one's consciousness. A variety of intermediate observations can be made, and finally the ultimate observation yields absolute proof that God exists.

 

The stringent demands of the experiment make the process extremely difficult to execute perfectly, and only perfection without contamination will produce the desired results.

 

If we really want proof, then it is ours. The experiment will cost us everything we have, but the payoff is riches beyond imagination.

 

gHari

[gHari]

The truth of the matter is found in the Srimad Bhagavatam 10.86.47:

 

<center>

hRdi-stho 'py ati-dUra-sthaH

karma-vikSipta-cetasAm

Atma-zaktibhir agrAhyo

'py anty upeta-guNAtmanAm

</center>

hRdi--in the heart; sthaH--situated; api--although; ati--very; dUra-sthaH--far away; karma--by material activities; vikSipta--disturbed; cetasAm--for those whose minds; Atma--by one's own; zaktibhiH--powers; agrAhyaH--not to be taken hold of; api--although; anti--near; upeta--realized; guNa--Your qualities; AtmanAm--by whose hearts.

But although You reside within the heart, You are very far away from those whose minds are disturbed by their entanglement in material work. Indeed, no one can grasp You by his material powers, for You reveal Yourself only in the hearts of those who have learned to appreciate Your transcendental qualities.

PURPORT

The all-merciful Lord is in everyone's heart. Seeing Him there, however, is possible only when one's heart is completely purified. Materialists may demand that God prove His existence by coming into view as a result of their empirical investigations, but God has no need to respond to such impudence. As Lord KRSNa states in Bhagavad-gItA (7.25):

 

<center>

 

nAhaM prakAzaH sarvasya

 

yoga-mAyA-samAvRtaH

 

mUDho ‘yaM nAbhijAnAti

 

loko mAm ajam avyayam

 

</center>

 

"I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible."

 

==================

 

 

The following are exerpts from Srila Prabhupada's life here with us:

 

 

 

When KRSNa was present on this planet, He proved by His activities and opulence that He is the Supreme Lord. If we are actually anxious to understand who and what the Supreme Lord is, all of the information is given in Vedic literatures. If we utilize whatever we have in our possession to understand God, KRSNa will prove that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If we but accept this one fact, then all of our education is complete.

 

 

====================

 

 

Nondevotees may ask for empirical proof: "Show us your KRSNa. Prove that He is God. We want to see Him lift Govardhana Hill." But their demand for proof cannot be satisfied in that way. Lord KRSNa reveals Himself in His original form only to His devotees:

 

nAhaM prakAzaH sarvasya yoga-mAyA-samAvRtaH

 

mUDho 'yaM nAbhijAnAti loko mAm ajam avyayam

 

"I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible" (Bg. 7.25).

 

To the atheists, God gives proof of His existence when He appears as death and takes everything away. But God does not manifest His internal potency to the faithless. SrIla PrabhupAda writes, "Even if one is perfected by realization of impersonal Brahman or localized ParamAtmA, he cannot possibly understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, SrI KRSNa, without being in KRSNa consciousness" (Bg. 7.26, purport).

 

 

=============

 

 

PrabhupAda: You don't see, that does not mean I don't see. Why do you accept like that? You may be fool rascal.

 

Karandhara: They want their team of scientists to see it.

 

PrabhupAda: Scientist means another rascal. Big rascal. You are a rascal, and your bigger scientist, he's a big rascal. He's a big rascal. SaMstutaH puruSaH pazuH. That is explained in the SrImad-BhAgavatam. Sva-viD-varAhoSTra-kharaiH saMstutaH puruSaH pazuH [sB 2.3.19]. You know this verse? Explain.

 

HRdayAnanda: People who are like hogs, dogs, camels and asses glorify nondevotees.

 

PrabhupAda: Yes, the, anyone nondevotee, he's a big camel, or big dog or big swine, like that. So these people who are praising them, they are also cats and dogs and swines, and the leader is also big swine. That's all. That is the difference. The so-called scientist, philosopher, is a big animal. That's all. But he is animal.

 

Karandhara: They say we're just dreamers.

 

PrabhupAda: Dreamer?

 

Karandhara: Dreamers. That we make up fantasies about God and heaven, but actually,

 

PrabhupAda: Why fancies? You have no brain to understand; therefore you say, "fancy"

 

Karandhara: Well, their common ground of objectivity is what they can perceive with the senses.

 

PrabhupAda: Yes, you can sense with the senses. You perceive with the senses the sand, but who has made the sand? You have not made. Why you are so fool that you don't understand this? This sand... Here is a perception, direct perception. This water, vast water--direct perception. Who has made it?

 

Karandhara: Well, they say, "If it was made by God, we'd be able to see him just like the sand."

 

PrabhupAda: Yes, but you have to get the eyes. That I say. Because you are blind, you have cataract, I have to operate. You'll see. You'll see. You come to treatment. Therefore the zAstra says, "Go to guru and be treated and try to understand." But how you can see with your blind eyes, cataract eyes?

 

Karandhara: Well, that vision, that seeing, is supramundane. They only consider the mundane vision.

 

PrabhupAda: Yes, supramundane, everything is supramundane. Because... How do you know that there is nothing in the sky? Now you say it is vacant. So your eyes is deficient. It is not vacant. There are innumerable planets, but you cannot see. You cannot see. You are blind. Therefore, because it is not in your power to see, you have to hear from me. "Yes, there are millions of stars there." You have to accept it. You cannot see. But because you cannot see does not mean that it is vacant. It is deficiency of your senses.

 

Karandhara: Well, they will admit that, but they say, "Still, we cannot... Even though we are ignorant of some things, we still can't accept what we can't see."

 

PrabhupAda: Why? If you are ignorant, you have to accept.

 

Karandhara: Because what we're told may be wrong.

 

PrabhupAda: May be wrong, that is your misfortune. But the process is that where your senses cannot approach, you have to hear from authority. That is the process. But if you don't approach authority, if you approach a cheater, that is your misfortune. But the process is, where your senses cannot act, you have to approach authority. That is the process.

 

SvarUpa DAmodara: But they want experimental knowledge.

 

PrabhupAda: Yes, this is experimental.

 

SvarUpa DAmodara: They say, "It cannot be proved."

 

PrabhupAda: No, why not proved? Just like I gave you the... this water, this sand, it is practical. Now you must know somebody has made it.

 

Karandhara: Well, the difficulty is, in a group of atheists, you can't prove God no matter what you say.

 

PrabhupAda: No, atheists, kick them on their face. Atheists, they are... Those who are reasonable, that everything see, that somebody has made. So this sand is also made by somebody, the water is also made by somebody, the sky is also made by somebody. Now you find out who is that somebody. That is knowledge.

 

Dr. Wolfe: They do not want to transcend the limits. They do not want to transcend the limits.

 

PrabhupAda: There is no question of transcending, practical. Everything you see, it is made by somebody. The stick is made by somebody. The cloth is made by somebody. So this must be made by somebody.

 

Dr. Wolfe: But they would say, "Present me the somebody so that I..." They would say, "Present to me the somebody so that I can see him."

 

PrabhupAda: Yes, I'll present you. So you have to take training from me. You have to make your eyes to see Him.

 

Dr. Wolfe: We want to.

 

PrabhupAda: That is the... Yes. But if you refuse to be treated, if you don't go to the physician, then how you'll be? You are blind now. There is cataract. Now you have to treat in a surgical operation. Tad-vijJAnArthaM sa gurum evAbhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This is the injunction.

 

Karandhara: You see, that step requires faith.

 

PrabhupAda: Not faith, practical.

 

Karandhara: Initially it must be, there must be faith in the guru.

 

PrabhupAda: Practical. If you want to learn something, you must to go the expert. That is not faith; it is a fact. You cannot learn anything by yourself. That is not possible.

 

Bali Mardana: If someone is actually sincere, can he be cheated or will he always get a bona fide guru?

 

PrabhupAda: No, if he is sincere he'll get. Yes. Guru-kRSNa-kRpAya pAya bhakti-latA-bIja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Guru and KRSNa. KRSNa is within you. As soon as He sees that you are sincere, He'll give you the right person.

 

 

===========

 

 

PrabhupAda: That is God. Some of you are saying there is no God, some of you are saying God is dead, and some of you are saying God is impersonal or void. These are all nonsense. I want to teach all these nonsense that there is God. That is my mission. Any nonsense can come to me, I shall prove that there is God. That is my KRSNa consciousness movement. It is a challenge to the atheistic people. There is God. As we are sitting here face to face, you can see God face to face. If you are sincere and if you are serious, that is possible. Unfortunately, we are trying to forget God; therefore we are embracing so many miseries of life. So I am simply preaching that you have KRSNa consciousness and be happy. Don't be swayed away by these nonsense waves of mAyA, or illusion. That is my request.

 

 

 

 

[AncientMariner]

My experience with atheists is that you can preach until you are blue in the face and they still think there is no God.

[theist]

 

This is a typical argument from the atheistic class of men...

 

 

What is your best answer to such people?

 

Did Srila Prabhupada have any standard answer on this challenging question?

I like to avoid atheists. The proof of God is everywhere at all times in everything and as everything. This satisfies the theist.

 

The atheist will see the same evidence as proof there is no God. How can this be? As Krsna tells us He satisfies the desires of each individuals heart. If someone wants to be an atheist Krsna will see to it he accep6ts the atheistic stance. He guides(or misdirects) his intelligence in that way.

 

For those who want to know Him He turns up the samvit lamp and dispels the darkness of ignorance. Either way it is Supersoul and we can't fight Supersoul. Therefore devotees are directed to preach to the innocent or IOW's those that are a little open (agnostics) or the believers whose faith is just dawning.

 

In this way we are cooperating with Supersoul in their heart and can be used as His tool in some small way to enlighten others.

 

We have no power to convert anyone's heart against their will. "A man's opinion changed against his will is of the same opinion still."

 

There is no magic argument that we can give that will change an atheist. When there is some public debate between the theist and the atheist the one's who may benefit are the agnostics listening in.

 

The best we can do is to love the so-called atheist as a part and parcel of Sri Krsna and allow them their God-given freedom to disagree with us without any sense of animosity arising within us towards them.

 

"You don't believe in God? All right that is your freedom and I respect your right to disagree with me. Here is some prasadam, Hare Krsna and have a nice day."

 

There is a nice line from the Aquarian Gospel, rather scripture or not this truth is self evident. "Souls are won by souls who speak to other souls." If we address just the mind of the atheist and ignore the real person then really how advanced are we? From the mental platform not much will come.

 

Another point is Krsna is all attractive. All we need do is present Krsna as He is and He will pull in the atheists. We need to make sure we are not in the way by trying hard to force a mind change on the unwilling.

[fish]

If the atheist cannot accept our proof it does not speak that it is necessary to stop to prove. The result does not depend on us, we can speak anyone and what will be result is not our problem. Also in it process also will consist, we speak in general that one both too again and again, from different corners and then some from those who listen, can understand, and also we

[fish]

If the person is very resolute in that that the God is not present, we can ask, why he so thinks and to strike in his arguments as his belief keep on his arguments. And if to bring in doubt, sometimes it can be effective. At least, if the man will not have not enough intelligence, other people can estimate it

[Ananta Sesa]

 

The truth of the matter is found in the Srimad Bhagavatam 10.86.47:

 

 

 

==================

 

 

 

The following are exerpts from Srila Prabhupada's life here with us:

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your quotes!

[Guest guest]

 

don't try to prove God to them people.

 

just walk away and let God teach 'em who is boss.

 

You only preach to the innocent, not the demons.

 

If you were a GODLY person and a child of GOD, you wouldn't have made that statement. Everyone is IGNORANT of something in his/her lives. Therefore, we SHOULD pray for those that are in the dark and not JUDGE them. No one is PERFECT. GOD bless those that are kind to others. On the other hand judging from what you have said, I am left to wonder WHO IS THE DEMON.

 

Have a nice day.

[Guruvani]

Srila Prabhupada - Teachings of Lord Kapila

 

 

Generally we experience that people are primarily interested in

seeing Krsna, but why is the emphasis on seeing? Let us hear about Him.

We must come with a little faith, and as we hear, that faith will

increase.

[Guruvani]

 

If you were a GODLY person and a child of GOD, you wouldn't have made that statement. Everyone is IGNORANT of something in his/her lives. Therefore, we SHOULD pray for those that are in the dark and not JUDGE them. No one is PERFECT. GOD bless those that are kind to others. On the other hand judging from what you have said, I am left to wonder WHO IS THE DEMON.

 

Have a nice day.

 

if people aren't interested in hearing about Krishna, then we have no interest to try and prove anything to them.

 

proof comes in hearing.

 

if they don't hear, they will never understand.

[Guest guest]

I agree with Guruvani.

[Guest guest]

I don't know of a person who has thoroughly proved God exists through language. It is too basic for the intellectuals but here is an interesting post From ProfessorIgorGoodTush.

 

 

"...If you are by common chance interested in learning if God exists then there are different areas you need to learn.

 

Consciousness Studies is the biggest one. Epistemology, Phenomonology, Psychology, Cognitive Neuroscience, Bhakti, etc... are fields. Philosophy is another big one. Ethics, Metaphysics, Ontology, etc..."

[Guest guest]

If you haven't seen god for an extremely long eons i'm sure god will contact you one day. he does for every soul. we are not absolutely nothing forever!

[Guest guest]

Sathya Sai baba is GOD,go see him he will prove you with miracles..

[Guest guest]

 

This is a typical argument from the atheistic class of men...

 

 

What is your best answer to such people?

 

 

Sometimes it is best to look closer to home. If one can accept and understand that we are not this body but a spirit soul, then it becomes easier for them to understand that there is a Supreme Spirit, or the Super Soul.

 

Once they understand that there is spirit and matter, they can move to higher topic, the existence of God

[Guest guest]

I did and he did nothin to prove He was God. No Universal Form to show and I will not settle for anything less.

 

 

Sathya Sai baba is GOD,go see him he will prove you with miracles..

[Guest guest]

 

Prabhupada would point out that everything in nature is made so perfect that anyone with intelligence can understand that there must be an intelligent creator.

 

1. Why do men have nipples?

 

2. Why are little children born with health conditions that kill them in days?

 

3. Why are lions and tigers carnivores?

 

4. Why did the dinosaurs become extinct?

 

No apologetic answers. If we do not have sensible answers to these questions, why do we say design is intelligent? Should we not be honest enough to admit '"we do not know"?

[Guest guest]

 

1. Why do men have nipples?

 

2. Why are little children born with health conditions that kill them in days?

 

3. Why are lions and tigers carnivores?

 

4. Why did the dinosaurs become extinct?

 

No apologetic answers. If we do not have sensible answers to these questions, why do we say design is intelligent? Should we not be honest enough to admit '"we do not know"?

 

1. The most efficient way to create bodies follows a certain pattern. For example, the differentiation between male and female bodies happens to involve a fairly small number of genetic variations while the vast majority of bodily details are the same.

2. The law of karma acts on all of us

3. Because there must be balance in nature as it is a self regulating creation

4. The nature changes all the time. There are various yugas, or cosmic seasons, when conditions promote entirely different set of plants and animals. When these seasons change, most of the inhabitants of the Earth change as well.

[dattaswami]

 

This is a typical argument from the atheistic class of men...

 

 

What is your best answer to such people?

 

Did Srila Prabhupada have any standard answer on this challenging question?

 

From the beginning of the creation of this world, man was searching for God. Some people were satisfied by realizing the existence of God, which was experienced by them through some items of creation and through some important incidents in the life. They never claimed that they have detected God [known Him completely]. They had only analyzed the entire creation and found that no item of the creation is God. They declared that nobody could detect God [know His real nature]. Therefore, they concluded that God is unimaginable. But they said that God exists because they have experienced the existence of God through some items of creation, which are imaginable and through some incidents, which can be analyzed. The medium through which they experienced God can never be God. Therefore, God was unimaginable for them. This is the correct approach to God.

But some egoistic people, who were very confident of their intelligence, analyzed and declared that they detected the real nature of God. They said that the real nature of God is awareness.

They mean that awareness is God Himself. In saying so, they have claimed to have imagined God and for them, who are highly intellectual, God is imaginable [even though most people may not be able to imagine Him as awareness]. But in reality, they were either egoistic in claiming to have detected the real form of God or they were impatient to accept the unimaginable God. The so-called awareness discovered by these people can never be God because awareness is not a completely unimaginable item. Of course, one has to take lot of pains in imagining the pure awareness, which is very very near to the unimaginable God. The item, which is imagined by a lot of analysis and lot of difficulty, can only be an item imaginable with great difficulty. It can be treated as almost unimaginable but it cannot be the perfectly unimaginable God.

 

Several statements of the Veda clearly declare that God is completely unimaginable under all circumstances. Silence alone can indicate God. Silence means that no word can be used to indicate God.

In the creation every imaginable item has a specific name, which cannot be used for any other imaginable item. For example the word pot means only a particular object. The word cloth means another particular object. You cannot use one word for any other object. But God can enter any item of the creation. Therefore, the name of every item can be used to indicate God, since there is no specific word for God, who is not a specific object at all. Even if God does not enter an item, the name of that item can be used to indicate God, because you are keeping that item as a representative of God.

For example God never enters an inert planet like the sun. But the sun can still represent God due to some similarities. God removes ignorance. The sun removes darkness. The lotus buds are opened by sun. The ignorant intelligence is also enlightened by God. Therefore, the sun can represent God to some extent. Therefore, the word ‘sun’ can also represent God. Thus, in one extreme end, no word can indicate God (Yato vachah-Veda). At the other extreme end, the name of any item into which God can enter, or any item which can represent God, can be used to indicate God. All the prayers to God such as the prayer of the thousand names (Sahasra Nama), indicate God. When a word indicates God, it is the name of the medium into which either God has entered or which stands as a representative of God. This means you can experience God through a specific medium when God enters it. Alternatively, you can also imagine the experience of the existence of God through a representative item like the sun.

You can experience the existence of God through a human incarnation like Lord Krishna, because God has entered and exists in the human body of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. In case of the sun, you can imagine the existence of God through the properties of the sun. Thus, there is a difference between the worship of the human incarnation and the worship of the representative item like the sun, statue etc. The Veda says that you can worship the sun as God, which means that sun is not directly God (Adityam Brahma iti…Veda). There is a difference between the direct worship of the king and the indirect worship of his photograph. In both cases the king is pleased. But in the direct worship, the king is extremely pleased because every bit of your service is experienced by the king directly. When God enters the human body, God has not become the human body. God is in the human body. Therefore, the human body is not God. You can only experience God through the human body.

Therefore, by seeing the human body of the incarnation, you have not seen God, but you have only experienced God through that human body. Therefore, God is invisible. Of course, a devotee can be satisfied by treating the human body as God and can feel satisfied that he has seen God. From this angle the Veda says, “A blessed fellow has seen God” (Kaschit Dhirah…). This is only an assumption. You can assume an electric wire as the electric current because you experience the current by touching the wire anywhere. Therefore, for all practical purposes the electric wire is the current. Thus, there is a very narrow delicate margin between the reality and assumption in this case. To solve this very delicate difference, you can say that the wire is the current from the point of experience of the existence of current and thus this assumption is perfectly correct.

But if you say that you have actually seen the electric current, we must say that you have seen only the wire and not the current because the current is invisible. Therefore, the conclusion is that you can experience the existence of the current through the wire but you cannot see the current actually. Thus, God’s existence is experienced through the human incarnation but God is not imagined.

The the Gita says that nobody knows God (Mamtu Veda Nakaschana…). This verse establishes the complete unimaginability of God. Again the Gita says that one blessed devotee in millions, can experience the existence God (Kaschit mam…). These two verses will contradict with each other if you say that the first verse means that nobody knows God and the second verse means that one knows God. The first verse means that the real nature or form of God cannot be known. The second verse means that the existence of God can be known. The Veda also presents these two sides. Several Vedic statements reveal that God is completely unimaginable and can never be known. In the Veda, Lord Yama says that they (great sages) have come to know that God cannot be known (yasyamatam tasyamatam). This statement indicates the point that God is completely unimaginable.

The Veda again says that only the existence of God can be known (Astiityevopalabdhavyah). This statement does not contradict the first statement. Thus, the Veda and the Gita are exactly synchronized in this context.

Awareness is indicated by the words like Atman (soul) or ‘I’. Advaita scholars feel that [by detecting the Atman] they have detected the real nature or form of God, which is the awareness. No doubt, awareness is almost an unimaginable item. But it does not mean that awareness is completely unimaginable. Of course, if you cross the awareness, nothing further is known. Awareness is in the climax position of the entire creation. It is the greatest of all the items of creation and therefore it is called as Brahman. It is the greatest among all the imaginable items. These scholars say that awareness is unimaginable to the majority of people. Therefore, they say that God is unimaginable with respect to the majority, who are ignorant. [They equate God to this Awareness]. Since scholars are in minority, only scholars can know the real form of God. This is their interpretation of the above two statements in the Veda and the Gita. They do not stop here.

They go one step further and say that since awareness is in every human being. If anybody knows and identifies himself with the pure awareness present in his body, he becomes God because God is pure awareness. To support this idea, they quote the Veda which says that the knower of Brahman becomes Brahman (Brahma vit Brahmaiva bhavati). They also quote the Gita that the knower is God (Jnani Tvatmaiva…). The actual meaning of this Vedic statement is that God alone is the knower of God. The scholars reverse this and say that the knower of God becomes God. Their reverse meaning contradicts the Gita, which says that nobody can know God. The the Gita says that the knower is Atman, but it does not mean that the knower is God. This is because Atman is not God. This statement of the Gita only means that by self-realization one can become the Self or Atman.

[Vigraha]

 

 

This great soul has the best arguments that has already proved the existence of God. How deep does our convictions really go into our hearts beyond philosophy and memorizing slokas and books. Personal realizations and acting on those 'realization' are the real Knowledge of personalism.

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[dattaswami]

 

 

This great soul has the best arguments that has already proved the existence of God. How deep does our convictions really go into our hearts beyond philosophy and memorizing slokas and books. Personal realizations and acting on those 'realization' are the real Knowledge of personalism.

 

 

 

The unimaginable God needs the imaginable human form as a medium for expressing Himself to His devotees. In the case of human incarnation of God also, you have only understood the existence of the unimaginable God and you have not imagined the nature of God as in the case of the limits of the Universe. You have only seen that the limits of space are beyond the sight and this does not mean that you have seen the limits of space. In all these examples, Maya (Unimaginable item) exists in the imaginable items to give a proof for its existence just like the unperceivable electricity exists in the perceivable metallic wire to give experience of its existence. The wire with electricity can be treated as the electricity itself and there is no other way than this to perceive the electricity. The electricity has to be treated as the wire containing electricity. But every wire is not electricity.

Therefore, the unimaginable Maya has to be treated as the imaginable world, which shows the unimaginable limits. This does not mean that every imaginable item in the world with definite limits is Maya. Therefore, this world can be treated as Maya (Mayamtu Prakrutim….Gita). Here the word Prakruti stands for the world with unimaginable limits and it does not stand for any imaginable item in the world with definite limits. Similarly, the person charged by God (human incarnation) can be treated as God but not every person. The world with unimaginable limits and human incarnation with unimaginable miracles can be treated as God (Viswam Vishnuh.., Vasudevah Sarvamiti…..) and this does not mean that the world or the human body of human incarnation itself is God (Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam…Gita).

[Sarva gattah]

Srila Prabhupada - Originally we have a direct personal relationship with Krishna in the spiritual world, but when we want to take Krishna’s position, we put ourselves into a dreaming state due to those non-Krishna conscious choices. In this dreaming state, we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu that is a real but perishable dark reality in one corner of the Spiritual Sky or creation. While in the mahat-tattva or material creation, we forget our actual body and position in Krishnas abode and thus are free to act out our non-Krishna conscious desires in our attempts to become the supreme enjoyer. These mistaken self centered choices or dreams are characterized as being “fallen” from our position in the spiritual world, but Srila Prabhupada explains that in Vaikuntha reality, beyond mundane time and space that governs the mahat-tattva, we are not fallen, We are simply in a dreaming.

Hare Krishna.