The svarupa of the jiva

[Guruvani]

We often hear about this "svarupa" of the jiva.

What is this "svarupa".

Is it our spiritual body or is it our consitutional nature?

 

Mahaprabhu has delineated the "svarupa" of the jiva in his teachings to Sanatan Goswami.

 

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 20.108-109

 

jīvera 'svarūpa' haya — kṛṣṇera 'nitya-dāsa'

kṛṣṇera 'taṭasthā-śakti' 'bhedābheda-prakāśa'

sūryāḿśa-kiraṇa, yaiche agni-jvālā-caya

svābhāvika kṛṣṇera tina-prakāra 'śakti' haya

 

SYNONYMS

jīvera — of the living entity; svarūpa — the constitutional position; haya — is; kṛṣṇera — of Lord Kṛṣṇa; nitya-dāsa — eternal servant; kṛṣṇera — of Lord Kṛṣṇa; taṭasthā — marginal; śakti — potency; bheda-abheda — one and different; prakāśa — manifestation; sūrya-aḿśa — part and parcel of the sun; kiraṇa — a ray of sunshine; yaiche — as; agni-jvālā-caya — molecular particle of fire; svābhāvika — naturally; kṛṣṇera — of Lord Kṛṣṇa; tina-prakāra — three varieties; śakti — energies; haya — there are.

 

 

TRANSLATION

"It is the living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa because he is the marginal energy of Kṛṣṇa and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Kṛṣṇa has three varieties of energy.

 

 

PURPORT

Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura explains these verses as follows: Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī asked Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Who am I?" In answer, the Lord replied, "You are a pure living entity. You are neither the gross material body nor the subtle body composed of mind and intelligence. Actually you are a spirit soul, eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are His eternal servant. You belong to Kṛṣṇa's marginal potency. There are two worlds — the spiritual world and the material world — and you are situated between the material and spiritual potencies. You have a relationship with both the material and the spiritual world; therefore you are called the marginal potency. You are related with Kṛṣṇa as one and simultaneously different. Because you are spirit soul, you are one in quality with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but because you are a very minute particle of spirit soul, you are different from the Supreme Soul. Therefore your position is simultaneously one with and different from the Supreme Soul. The examples given are those of the sun itself and the small particles of sunshine and of a blazing fire and the small particles of fire." Another explanation of these verses can be found in Ādi-līlā, Chapter Two, verse 96.

 

 

If devotees would just understand what Mahaprabhu is saying here in this instruction then a lot of misunderstanding can be avoided.

 

Mahaprabhu clearly says that we are marginal potency.

Marginal potency is the potency that is between the spiritual and material world.

That hardly describes a shakti from within the internal potency where all the souls in Goloka are situated.

 

Mahaprabhu told us to concieve that we are like small particles of the ONE great fire of Krishna.

 

Our CONSTITUTIONAL NATURE is we were meant for the service of Krishna.

That means that we are by nature meant to serve Krishna.

 

Mahaprabhu has made it quite clear that we come from the marginal realm between the material and spiritual realms.

 

If devotees can just understand this teaching of Mahaprabhu then the proper understanding should be very easy.

 

 

There are two worlds — the spiritual world and the material world — and you are situated between the material and spiritual potencies. You have a relationship with both the material and the spiritual world; therefore you are called the marginal potency.

 

Mahaprabhu never said that we should think that we are some "projected consciousness" from Goloka, but that we are spirit sparks coming from the marginal position between the spiritual and material worlds.

 

Mahaprabhu clearly defeats the bogus suggestion that we are somehow in Goloka but dreaming that we are in the material world.

 

Mahaprabhu makes it clear that we are in the tatastha region between the spiritual and material world.

 

As such, the concocted bogus siddhanta that we are in Goloka and dreaming that we are in the material world is fully defeated by the teachings of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

[Guruvani]

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 20.117 purport,

 

Being in the marginal position, he is sometimes attracted by the external, illusory energy, and this is the beginning of his material life.

 

It is quite clear here that the jiva gets attracted to maya from the marginal position.

There is no marginal postion in Goloka.

It is all internal energy.

[Guruvani]

In the words of Mahaprabhu he says;

 

sei jīva anādi-bahirmukha

 

The Sanskrit dictionary gives the meaning of anadi as:

 

 

<table cellspacing="3"><tbody><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1</td> <td valign="top"> anAdi</td> <td valign="top">mfn. having no beginning , existing from eternity.</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

Mahaprabhu says:

 

kṛṣṇa bhuli' sei jīva anādi-bahirmukha

ataeva māyā tāre deya saḿsāra-duḥkha

 

 

Mahaprabhu says that conditoned souls of the material world have been attracted by maya

<table cellspacing="3"><tbody><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1</td> <td valign="top"> anAdi</td> <td valign="top">mfn. having no beginning , existing from eternity.</td></tr></tbody></table>

[gHari]

Do we think 'marginal potency' is a place?

[Guest guest]

I think "marginal potency" is an inherent nature of the jiva soul, not a place.

 

from therealexplanation.org/article/before_even.html

 

"When the living entities desire to enjoy themselves, they develop a consciousness of duality and come to hate the service of the Lord." Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53

 

"When the living entity thus turns away from the Supreme Lord, he also forgets his own constitutional position as a servant of the Lord." Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.37

 

 

 

How can you hate (dveshya) the service of the Lord (seva) and turn your face away from that service (bahirmukha) when you are not engaged in any service whatsoever while floating around in the brahmajyoti? Even in shanta rasa in Vaikuntha, there is at least some kind of service. There is no service at all, however, in the brahmajyoti.

[Guest guest]

so from that verse, Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53, one might ask, how could we "come to hate the service of the lord", if we had never been engaged in the service of the lord

[gHari]

http://vedabase.net/sb/4/28/53/en

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/11/2/37/en

[gHari]

http://vedabase.net/sb/4/28/64/en

[som]

Marginal potency is not a place as the name suggests -- it is a potency of the potent Supreme Person.

 

But because the potency is marginal it can either be based in the spiritual or material world. When it is purely serving Krishna, it is based in the Spiritual world and when gratifying it's own senses it is in the material world. Therefore it is called tatastha (something like the sea-shore area).

 

In the sea-shore sometimes there is water and sometimes not, therefore the marginal potency of the Krishna is sometimes with Krishna and sometimes not!

 

If any mistakes in my statements please forgive me. Hare Krishna!

 

 

 

Do we think 'marginal potency' is a place?

[Vigraha]

 

Do we think 'marginal potency' is a place?

 

Srila Prabhupada - "We are marginal energy! Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy; we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt".letter to Lilavati prabhu April 25, 1969 Allston, Mass USA

[Guruvani]

 

Do we think 'marginal potency' is a place?

 

Apparently Mahaprabhu related to it as a place.

It's in the purport by Bhaktivinode and Srila Prabhupada.

 

Did you even read the verse I presented.

 

It's as place as the nose on your face if you just read the books.

Here is what Srila Prabhupada says in the purport above:

 

 

You belong to Kṛṣṇa's marginal potency. There are two worlds — the spiritual world and the material world — and you are situated between the material and spiritual potencies. You have a relationship with both the material and the spiritual world; therefore you are called the marginal potency.

 

The PLACE is the PLACE between the material and spiritual worlds.

[Guruvani]

Read the definition of marginal as explained in the purport:

 

 

You have a relationship with both the material and the spiritual world; therefore you are called the marginal potency.

 

The devotees of Goloka do not have any relationship with the material world. Therefore, there is no marginal potency in the spiritual world.

 

The marginal potency is manifested by Maha-Vishnu as he glances over prakriti.

 

There is no marginal potency within Vaikuntha proper.

 

Prabhupada explains in the quote above that the marginal potency has a relationship with both the material and spiritual world.

 

That is the realm between matter and spirit.

 

In Vaikuntha there is no situation of marginal existence.

[Guruvani]

 

Marginal potency is not a place as the name suggests -- it is a potency of the potent Supreme Person.

 

But because the potency is marginal it can either be based in the spiritual or material world. When it is purely serving Krishna, it is based in the Spiritual world and when gratifying it's own senses it is in the material world. Therefore it is called tatastha (something like the sea-shore area).

 

In the sea-shore sometimes there is water and sometimes not, therefore the marginal potency of the Krishna is sometimes with Krishna and sometimes not!

 

If any mistakes in my statements please forgive me. Hare Krishna!

 

There is no marginal potency in the spiritual world.

The marginal potency is between the material and spiritual worlds.

If a soul is in the spiritual world how can he also be between the spiritual world and the material world?

 

Please show any where shastra ever refers to the pure devotees of Vaikuntha as being marginal potency.

 

You cannot.

It does not exist.

[gHari]

In a letter Srila Prabhupada explains:

 

"Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The Time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Since we cannot trace out when we have become conditioned, there is no use of arguing on this point. Better to take care first how we can get rid of this conditional existence; as much as a patient should take care for treating his disease more, and less waste his time in finding out the cause of his disease."

 

From "Light of the Bhagavata":

The conditioned living entities who wish to enjoy and not serve are given a chance within DevI-dhAma to seek liberation. Some of them enter Hari-dhAma, some of them enter Maheza-dhAma, and some of them remain within DevI-dhAma. Maheza-dhAma is the marginal place between Hari-dhAma and DevI-dhAma. The impersonalists who want to merge into the existence of the Transcendence are placed within Maheza-dhAma. Those who want to remain within the planetary systems of the material universes do so on various planets. But those who want to go outside the material energy can enter Hari-dhAma and go either to the various planets there or directly to KRSNaloka.

[Guruvani]

the parshadas and devotees of the spiritual world are not classified as "living entities".

 

The living entities are the particles of spiritual sparks that make up the brahmajyoti.

 

When Srila Prabhupada says "living entity" he is referring to the spiritual particles in the brahmajyoti, not the pure devotee parshadas of Krishna.

[Guruvani]

In fact, shastra states that even the brahmajyoti in the spiritual world is never affected by the material energy.

Shastrically, only the jivas impregnated into the Maha-tattva get any influence by the material energy.

Even the living entities in the brahmajyoti of Vaikuntha don't fall down.

This is the shastric version.

The brahmajyoti of Vaikuntha is never effected my material influence.

 

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.9.3

 

nātaḥ paraḿ parama yad bhavataḥ svarūpam

ānanda-mātram avikalpam aviddha-varcaḥ

paśyāmi viśva-sṛjam ekam aviśvam ātman

bhūtendriyātmaka-madas ta upāśrito 'smi

 

 

SYNONYMS

na — do not; ataḥ param — hereafter; parama — O Supreme; yat — that which; bhavataḥ — of Your Lordship; svarūpam — eternal form; ānanda-mātram — impersonal Brahman effulgence; avikalpam — without changes; aviddha-varcaḥ — without deterioration of potency; paśyāmi — do I see; viśva-sṛjam — creator of the cosmic manifestation; ekam — one without a second; aviśvam — and yet not of matter; ātman — O Supreme Cause; bhūta — body; indriya — senses; ātmaka — on such identification; madaḥ — pride; te — unto You; upāśritaḥ — surrendered; asmi — I am.

 

 

TRANSLATION

O my Lord, I do not see a form superior to Your present form of eternal bliss and knowledge. In Your impersonal Brahman effulgence in the spiritual sky, there is no occasional change and no deterioration of internal potency. I surrender unto You because whereas I am proud of my material body and senses, Your Lordship is the cause of the cosmic manifestation and yet You are untouched by matter.

 

 

Despite much misunderstanding on the issue, the spiritual world is so perfect that the brahmajyoti can never change or deteriorate under the influence of maya.

Maya cannot tempt the any soul in the spiritual world.

Maya has absolutely no influence in the spiritual world.

 

Maya can only tempt the jivas that Maha-Vishnu impregnates into the Maha-tattva.