Is Jesus also Vishnu?

[Anya]

Will someone explain that if God is one then why do we have different 'Almighties' for different religions.

 

For example, if Hindus believe God is one then why don't we believe that, for example, Jesus is one of our god and talked about in Vedas as (perhaps) one of the incarnations of Vishnus?

[Guest guest]

They are not the same. Here is some things prabhupada said. From harekrishnatemple web site.

---

 

Many people often wonder what is the view of Lord Jesus Christ in the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

Srila Prabhupada, the foremost exponent of the Krishna

consciousness movement explains that Jesus is Krishna's representative, son of God, and spiritual master.

 

Below are excerpts from Srila Prabhupada's books, lectures, and conversations about Jesus Christ and his

relationship with Krsna.

 

"If one loves Krishna, he must love Lord Jesus also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus he must love Krishna too. If he says, "Why shall I love Krishna? I shall love Jesus," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus? I shall love Krishna", then he has no knowledge either. If one understands Krishna, then he will understand Jesus. If one understands Jesus, you'll understand Krishna too"

(Srila Prabhupada - Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg, May 12, 1969 / Columbus - Ohio)

 

As Lord Jesus Christ said, we should hate the sin, not the sinner. That is a very nice statement, because the sinner is under illusion. He is mad. If we hate him, how can we deliver him? Therefore, those who are advanced devotees, who are really servants of God, do not hate anyone. When Lord Jesus Christ was being crucified, he said, "My God, forgive them. They know not what they do." This is the proper attitude of an advanced devotee. He understands that the conditioned souls cannot be hated, because they have become mad due to their materialistic way of thinking. In this Krsna consciousness movement, there is no question of hating anyone. Everyone is welcomed to come and chant Hare Krsna, take krsna-prasada, listen to the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita, and try to rectify material, conditioned life. This is the essential program of Krsna consciousness.

(Path of Perfection Chapter 3: Learning How to See God)

 

Christian, Muhammadan, Hindu-it doesn't matter. If he is simply speaking on behalf of God, he is a guru. Lord Jesus Christ, for instance. He canvassed people, saying, "Just try to love God." Anyone-it doesn't matter who-be he Hindu, Muslim, or Christian, is a guru if he convinces people to love God. That is the test. The guru never says, "I am God," or "I will make you God." The real guru says, "I am a servant of God, and I will make you a servant of God also." It doesn't matter how the guru is dressed. As Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, "Whoever can impart knowledge about Krsna is a spiritual master." A genuine spiritual master simply tries to get people to become devotees of Krsna, or God. He has no other business.

(Science of Self Realization Chapter 2: Choosing a Spiritual Master)

 

So Lord Jesus Christ said, "My Lord, hallowed be Thy name." He wants to glorify the name of the Lord. And some people says that there is no name of God. How? If Lord Jesus Christ says "Hallowed by Thy name," there must be name. The name is there, but he did not pronounce it because the people at that time will not be able to understand or maybe some reason, but he says there is name. So we are making this propaganda, Krsna consciousness movement, the "Hallowed by Thy name. My Lord Krsna, the Personality of Godhead, let Your holy name be glorified." This is our movement. It is not a sectarian...(Lecture: Bhagavad Gita 3.27 Melbourne June 27, 1974)

 

Sometimes Sri Krsna descends Himself, and sometimes He sends His representative. The major religions of the world-Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Moslem-believe in some supreme authority or personality coming down from the kingdom of God. In the Christian religion, Jesus Christ claimed to be the son of God and to be coming from the kingdom of God to reclaim conditioned souls. As followers of Bhagavad-gita, we admit this claim to be true. So basically there is no difference of opinion. In details there may be differences due to differences in culture, climate and people, but the basic principle remains the same-that is, God or His representatives come to reclaim conditioned souls.

(Raja Vidya Chapter 6 :Knowledge of Krsna's Appearance and Activities)

 

Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was so badly treated and still he was thinking, "Father, they do not know what they are doing. Please excuse." This is suhrdah. He is praying to God This is sadhu, mahatma. Suhrdah prasanta. Not that... In India there are examples like Haridasa Thakura, Prahlada Maharaja. And the Western countries also, Lord Jesus Christ, he is saktyavesa-avatara, God's son. And he tolerated so much. These are the examples of mahatma. Don't misunderstand that we are preaching that mahatmas are only in India. No. By the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead there are mahatmas even amongst the birds, even amongst the beasts, even amongst the lower than animals. Because this Krsna consciousness movement is going on in different places, in different circumstances.(Srimad Bhagavatam 5.5.3 --vrndavana Oct 25, 1976)

 

Conversation with Father Emmanuel - In 1974, near ISKCON's center in Frankfurt am Main, West Germany, Srila Prabhupada and several of his disciples took a morning walk with father Emmanuel Jungclaussen, a Benedictine monk from Niederalteich Monastery. Noticing that Srila Prabhupada was carrying meditation beads similar to the rosary, Father Emmanuel explained that he also chanted a constant prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, be merciful unto us." The following conversation ensued.

 

Conversation with Cardinal Danielou - "Thou Shalt Not Kill" or "Thou Shalt Not Murder"?

At a monastic retreat near Paris, in July of 1973, Srila Prabhupada talked with Cardinal Jean Danielou: "... the Bible does not simply say, `Do not kill the human being.' It says broadly, `Thou shalt not kill.'... why do you interpret this to suit your own convenience?"

 

From Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers - Discussions between Peace Corps Worker Bob Cohen and His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 

Jesus Christ Was a Guru - The spiritual leader of the Hare Krsna movement here recognizes Lord Jesus Christ as "the son of God, the representative of God... our guru... our spiritual master," yet he has some sharp words for those who currently claim to be Christ's followers...

 

A devotee of Krsna is friendly to everyone. Therefore it is said here that he has no enemy (nirvairah). How is this? A devotee situated in Krsna consciousness knows that only devotional service to Krsna can relieve a person from all the problems of life. He has personal experience of this, and therefore he wants to introduce this system, Krsna consciousness, into human society. There are many examples in history of devotees of the Lord who risked their lives for the spreading of God consciousness. The favorite example is Lord Jesus Christ. He was crucified by the nondevotees, but he sacrificed his life for spreading God consciousness. Of course, it would be superficial to understand that he was killed. Similarly, in India also there are many examples, such as Thakura Haridasa and Prahlada Maharaja. Why such risk? Because they wanted to spread Krsna consciousness, and it is difficult. A Krsna conscious person knows that if a man is suffering it is due to his forgetfulness of his eternal relationship with Krsna. Therefore, the highest benefit one can render to human society is relieving one's neighbor from all material problems. In such a way, a pure devotee is engaged in the service of the Lord. Now, we can imagine how merciful Krsna is to those engaged in His service, risking everything for Him. Therefore it is certain that such persons must reach the supreme planet after leaving the body.

(Chapter 11 Bhagavad gita text 55 purport)

[dasa]

Here is a site put togeter by a devotee named Priita with various quotes.

 

http://www.geocities.com/priitaa108/christ_and_krishna.htm

[Anya]

I understand that, thanks Guest.

 

But why is it that whenever God reincarted himself he did that in India? In my opinion, Indians have the strongest and oldest history, religious culture and beliefs, possesion of Vedas, presence of rishi munis, chirinjeeves etc?

 

Infact, we even claim that the 'accupenture' is also Indian that was later taken by the Chinese. We also claim that in shastras there is already a mention of 'Australia' as 'Australisia' where in ancient times we used to keep our weapons.

 

In shastras we know that 'brhamastras' (now known as nuclear weapons) were already being used. Our books say, there are 'teen loks' prithvi, petal and swarg and there were lives in all of these worlds.

 

So has the whole world been India for years and years? How do we explain the coming of different people/culture etc.

 

May be there is no answer to this and I am just confusing people! Sorry!

[theist]

 

I understand that, thanks Guest.

 

But why is it that whenever God reincarted himself he did that in India? In my opinion, Indians have the strongest and oldest history, religious culture and beliefs, possesion of Vedas, presence of rishi munis, chirinjeeves etc?

 

Infact, we even claim that the 'accupenture' is also Indian that was later taken by the Chinese. We also claim that in shastras there is already a mention of 'Australia' as 'Australisia' where in ancient times we used to keep our weapons.

 

In shastras we know that 'brhamastras' (now known as nuclear weapons) were already being used. Our books say, there are 'teen loks' prithvi, petal and swarg and there were lives in all of these worlds.

 

So has the whole world been India for years and years? How do we explain the coming of different people/culture etc.

 

May be there is no answer to this and I am just confusing people! Sorry!

 

No it is a good question. People of particular mentalities take birth in similar circumstances to one another. India's spiritual culture, the spiritual philosophy that she has given to mankind proves beyond any doubt that India is the place which was set aside for those humans who were most anxious to cultivate deep spiritual understanding. I don't see any close second on this earth.

 

I see it something like an ordinary neighborhood here in the US. On a corner you may have a church where people bow before the Lord and sing His praises. Down the street on another corner there may be a butcher shop and drinking hall where no one wants to hear of God. In between maybe there are just ordinary working folks living ordinary lives. They live in worlds within worlds. I see the earth as something like a neighborhood. Different folks gravitate to certain areas according to the modes of nature that is prominent in them.

 

So much advanced knowledge was given to the people of India because they wanted to hear such knowledge. Krsna obliged their desire just as He does those that want to ignore Him.

[som]

Good reply Thiestji. Also, Srila Prabhupada did mention that there was only one flag, one religion (Vedic religion) even during the time of Parikshit Maharaja.

 

The coming of different people cultures can be explained by the fact that each and every individual is unique, but at the same time there are some characteristics which are similar between the individuals and they tend to gravitate together due to those similarities, thus forming their own small groups.

 

Earlier in Satya yuga the influence of material energy was not that strong and hence there was no segregation into different groups of non-vedic ideas. But as the influence of material energy grew stronger the fractions and innumerable groups began to emerge..

 

Hope this helps. Hare Krishna!

 

 

I understand that, thanks Guest.

 

But why is it that whenever God reincarted himself he did that in India? In my opinion, Indians have the strongest and oldest history, religious culture and beliefs, possesion of Vedas, presence of rishi munis, chirinjeeves etc?

 

Infact, we even claim that the 'accupenture' is also Indian that was later taken by the Chinese. We also claim that in shastras there is already a mention of 'Australia' as 'Australisia' where in ancient times we used to keep our weapons.

 

In shastras we know that 'brhamastras' (now known as nuclear weapons) were already being used. Our books say, there are 'teen loks' prithvi, petal and swarg and there were lives in all of these worlds.

 

So has the whole world been India for years and years? How do we explain the coming of different people/culture etc.

 

May be there is no answer to this and I am just confusing people! Sorry!

[HerServant]

(post removed)

 

you are thinking of a different person

 

the site referred to in post number three is by a woman devotee Priitaa

 

her home page is http://www.geocities.com/priitaa/krishna_conscious_web_sites.htm

[HerServant]

Many on this forum know me to be a Jesus bhakta and catholic christian but I will attempt to answer objectively.

 

My realization is yes. But I think we have to understand certain perspectives when religion says no.

 

The answer can be complex as many doctrine/theology must be taken into account: advaita dvaita, viveshstek advaita, zen buddhism, pureland buddhism, christian, orthodox christian, judaism etc.

 

The best way for me to personally understand and help have peaceful relations with all faiths is to accept that the Lord is not limited by our understanding of Him.

 

Each faith should admit and will admit that God cannot be grasped or comprehended by humans.

 

Even the saddhus have said that there is something of God that is completely unknowable and can never be known.

 

Each saddhu in each faith has a particular realization and the realization is absolute.

 

But this absolute realization of God cannot contain Him!

 

Faith is more important. It comes by prayer and fasting. These are the same in any religion.

[HerServant]

 

(post removed)

 

you are thinking of a different person

 

the site referred to in post number three is by a woman devotee Priitaa

 

her home page is http://www.geocities.com/priitaa/krishna_conscious_web_sites.htm

 

OK .. I understand completely .. thx

[Yofu]

Jesus's God rejoices your death

 

"And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it." (Deuteronomy 28:63)

 

Comment

 

If the religious mind believes that God represents a loving God, then one must wonder about God, as described in the Bible, who would rejoice to destroy some of his creations.

 

Should we hold honor to an insane God? The Bible assures us that God possess an evil spirit with hate, and full of wrath, and here he rejoices in destruction! God appears completely devoid of any wit or humor; a mental state that psychologists have observed in many schizophrenics.

 

 

Vishnu would not rejoice your death.....

 

I wish devotees would stop trying be christian Vaisnavas.....

[Yofu]

God 'The Jealous'

 

"For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters so a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods." (Exodus 34:14-16)

 

Comment

 

Verse 14 (among other verses of the Bible) makes it abundantly clear that this God not only feels jealous but the Bible names him Jealous.

 

Why an all powerful God should feel jealous of his creations simply because they believed in other gods remains unclear. Could it mean that other gods exist as well as the Hebrew god or that the other gods do a better job?

 

 

Somehow I don't believe Visnhu is a jealous God...

[Yofu]

God Casts Stones

 

"And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword." (Joshua 10:11)

 

Comment

 

Another typical slaughter described in the Bible. Here we have God, personally throwing great stones on the people for the sole purpose of killing them.

 

"The Christian religion has been and still is the principle enemy of moral progress in the world."

 

--Bertrand Russell

 

 

Where does it describe in our sastra that Vishnu throws stones?

[Yofu]

Kill Man, Woman, Infant

 

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (I Samuel 15:2-3)

 

Comment

 

No matter how one can justify possible crimes from adults, suckling infants have no means of acting out crimes. And what evil against God could the animals have possibly performed? Only an evil entity could kill innocent infants and animals, no matter what their parents and owners may have done.

 

Sheesh...where in sastra does Visnhu condone such actions....

[theist]

Sectarianist's such as this are such a bore.

[Guest guest]

 

Sectarianist's such as this are such a bore.

 

These are legitimate points he is making. It is a huge stretch to compare the Biblical god to Lord Vishnu. If we believe in the authenticity of the Bible these verses leave no doubt Old Testament god is not Vishnu.

[mahak]

"I am a vengeful God". Yet Krsna tells arjuna to kill them all, even King Bhisma, Dronacarya, and Krpacarya. All this burnin and lootin is what humans understand, thus religions have plenty of that blood and guts stuff to hold our attention.

 

Ya see, god is beyond good and evil, and the sectarianists will never understand, because they try to clean it up with their own bogus morality. But babies die everyday, and Krsna, who is the cause of all causes, is the perpetrater. Innocent babies die bullet ridden in their mothers' arms. Sorry, but this is not a bible thing. Krsna shows arjuna how he annihillates everything.

 

Tofu is trying to mentally conjure up an image of Vishnu that is user friendly, but visnu is part of a three-fold god system, and he just acts as maintainer between the creator Brahma and the annihillator Siva, and even though he is the ultimate source of both brahma and siva, he does NOT intervene in their operations in the mahat tattwa.

 

Thing is, we are not blood and guts at all, death is not a part of life, but an illusion brought about by our association with TIME. Transcendence is what is taught by those who have our best interests at heart.

 

Lord Jesus Christ is Brahma, the creator and only begotton son (born directly from the body of Visnu), not Visnu, the maintainer. This is who Jesus says is His Father. Lord Jesus returns as Siva, to annihillate. In both cases, he is also MAINTAINED by Visnu, He who has sent Him.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guruvani]

the Vedic Ksatriyas never killed women and children.

they fought on the battlefield with bravery and chivalry.

 

the moronic manslaughter that "god" invoked in the Bible is all considered demonic by Vedic standards.

[mahak]

<CENTER>BIBLE NOTES</CENTER><CENTER>

RELIGIONS OF MAN</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>by mahaksadasa, ca, 1995</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

The world of TIME is governed by RELIGION. Tribal gods in charge of seculars are subserviant to the illusioned, are placed on banners of war to kill the infidels, over and over, until TIME gobbles the people and their gods up in one fell swoop.

 

What brings this issue up, I was engaged in conversation of spiritual nature, casually at work as usual, and the other end of the conversation was denying life outside our realm of existance. As he was of Cristian bent, I reminded him of Genesis verification of extraterrestrials in chapter six, the ET's after earth women chapter. This kind of worked on him, and he accepted that beings with wills of their own exist outside of the earth plain, and also verified that God is not impotent and has abilities to have many, many sons, not just the popular belief that He only has one.

 

Under normal circumstances, such a coup in preaching exercise would be a source of pleasure to the philosophy victor, yet I was quite disturbed at what transpired. I grabbed the book called the bible, and read the story up to and following the above citation, and came away with the bitter taste of a philosophy systematically wracked with Mayavada garbage by the acts of man's interpretation. The book called the bible is filled with tribal religious nonsense, a religion of demigods not at all transcendental to Samsara (birth, old age, disease, and death) cycle. The story of Noah is not a story of sweet pastimes of my Lord, it is a story of an angry demigod prone to mistakes, regretting his own actions of creation. By definition, the gods spoken of are NOT all-attractive, not to the point of Narayana, not even to the point of Mahajana demigods like Lord Brahma and Sri Nataraja. The old testament is rather a story of UFO captains', Pharaohs' and shamans' manipulation of the people, in other words, agents of the forgetfulness necessary to continue the temporary creation. The religions that have accepted these tribal gods as their worshipable entities have no value whatsoever to serve humanity's best interests.

 

Yet these false doctrines rule the world. Regardless of their lofty proposals of eternal bliss, the goals are to latch onto the hierarchial system, pledge allegiance, and wage war on infidels. We do not need further example to verify this fact, we drown daily in the result of such materialism, and death is not moving away from any of us. Srila Prabhupada is the maintainer of the torchlight of reality, and the darkness of illusion is unable to keep grip in the presence of His teachings. Nirvisesa sunyavadi, he drives away all false ideas proposed by those giving raksasa godheads.

 

What is this, mahaksadasa, the bible-bangin' exile dissin' the bible? Has he finally given up all his Jesus ideas? Quite the contrary, for Lord Jesus Christ is just as strong in His service to His Supreme Father, he dissed the Sanhedran, he shows the flaws in Pharasee ideas of psuedo-religiosity, shows us all that his Father resides in the heart and is accessable by unalloyed service attitude. He was assassinated by the religions of man of his time. His teachings, however, have been adopted in a perverted and external way by those wishing the exploitable neophyte ill, needing to steal the power of religious fervor to maintain control, to engage their congregations in satisfaction of the desires, not of the Lord, but the mundane desires of the hierarchial leadership of the tribal system. Any breaks away are called schisms, true teachers are known as heretics, and escapees from the clutches of the group are known as infidels, worthy of scorn and ridicule, up to the point of active warfare.

 

I, myself, do not care for any of these religions, because my guru-maharaja warns of the impotency and waste of time in dancing with such danger. The bible can be a good read, but not without direction of a bonafide spiritual master, a paramahansa, who can show the shaff from the grain. If one who dabbles in bible stuff, which, as described above, may be somewhat helpful in preaching work geared toward adherants, does not allow paramahansa to show the shaff, such dabbling could amount to spiritual suicide. I have seen it, I have read it on the internet, those who fall prey to "comparative religious study". This elephant Vaisnava aparadha, considering tribal god worship to be anywhere near the Sanatana dharma of Bhakti yoga, is so easy to commit, so one should be very careful in his(her) studies. This aparadha is also committed in the act of watering down Srila Prabhupada's gifts to be acceptable to the masses wanting religion. He did not do it, his FOLLOWERS do not do it either. Despite their pledges of loyalty to keep the acronym (ISKCON) alive, some desparately attempt artificial concocted solutions to their own misunderstandings.

 

Srila Prabhupada clearly states that he is ISKCON, but he is not a material acronym, rather the embodiment of sanatana-dharma, the eternal function of loving service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Vaisnava Acarya approves of disciples' guru puja, but such puja(worship) is as dearmost servant, not Visnu-tattva, not artificially exhalted to the position of a tribal god, not as commander-in-chief to a band of cannibals ready to live their raksasa lives as agents of the killing fields of party spirit sectarianism. The biblical compilations, (by the way, for the bangers out there who think that it is summum bonum, is only 15% intact, many books thrown away for political reasons through the centuries of misrepresentation), should be seen as an example of how the pure message of Lord Jesus Christ turns poisonous by touching lips of serpants.

 

<CENTER>BIBLE NOTES - DISCLAIMER</CENTER><CENTER>

explanation of offenses and author's notes</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

In the Vedic tradition, there are two schools of thought, Vaisnavism and Mayavada. Vaisnavas consider the absolute truth to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead as summum bonum, whereas the Mayavadis considers the all encompassing void (or clear white light) is the goal. My teacher, who was stalwart Vaisnava and defeated the Mayavada as sport, proving over and over that their goal was quite short of TRUTH, encompassing only partial truth. The clear light is only the effulgence emanating from the Form of the Supreme Lord, and this is verified even by the father/scholar of the Mayavada school, Sri Shankaracarya (ca.500AD).

Once, way back when, my teacher, Srila Prabhupada, told one of his ministers to go into the L.A. center and give lectures supporting the Mayavada theory. The minister was literally exiled from the movement, even though he was perfectly following the order of his teacher. Srila Prabhupada's point was to see if those who attended were REALLY hearing or just pretending understanding.

 

The Sri Jatayu Website is humbly constructed to see if someone is HEARING, some articles are specifically geared toward controversy, for one purpose, to stimulate dialogue. (Note: There are also poems and stories not meant for this, rather to just give sweet KATHA-discussions of His Glory.)

I am openly criticizing some of the followers of Lord Jesus Christ, Simon Peter, Andrew, et.al., not because I find fault with their service to the Lord, but for the precedant it sets for those who consider them as faultless as Lord Jesus Christ. Traditions have been handed down through history following in their footsteps that may be seriously flawed. There are presently 300,000,000 people in the world claiming to be like Christ, christians, yet the world is in the toilet. My point is that if there were only 10,000 REAL Christians, this world would be quite different, indeed. Lord Jesus Christ Himself condemns the christians (Note the lower case "c", the way I differentiate Psuedo from REAL), saying, "In the final days, there will be many who say, "Have we not healed the sick and raised the dead, baptizing in Your Name?" and I will say to them, "Get away from Me, you workers of iniquity, for you have failed to do the will of My Father."

Yet I have no problem with St. Peter or the rest, and I will further elaborate in the context of the story of Sri Jatayu. Sri Jatayu, for all intents and purposes, failed in his attempt to serve Srimati Sitadevi and Lord Ramachandra, yet his reward did not measure the failure in the least, it was the service that was considered by the Most Merciful Supreme Lord.

The Scriptures contained in the Bible are authoritative, and can deliver one to his constitutional position of servant of the Supreme Lord, yet the saying goes, Satan uses scripture to deliver his message. So what is needed, scripture may be as dangerous as common stories of hedonism? Scripture is understood through the medium of a bonafide spiritual master, regardless of how he is addressed, be it guru, master, imam, priest, minister, lama, etc. If one wants to understand quantum hyper-dimentional physics, a book from Barnes & Noble will not be sufficient. A physician is not one who has just read the medical journals, he has undergone training. These are just mundane knowledges, like counting numbers, yet they require the aspirant to undergo the process of study under the guidance of the professor, who has also undergone the same apprenticeship. The advanced Knowledge of spiritual life and goals must be understood in the same way, there is the knowledge from the Books left by the Great Saints and Scholars of the past, yet they must be understood under the guidance of the professor.

Lord Jesus Christ again sets the proper example. He did not require a teacher, He is the Self-Sufficient, Self-Effulgent Son of the Supreme Father (Who He is and Who He says He is), yet he approached John the Baptist, and when He accepted initiation, His Father announced, "This is My Son, with Whom I am well pleased."

 

In closing, I apologize to the followers of Lord Jesus Christ who detect a tone of bitterness in the "Archetect and the Policeman". The bitterness is not really there, as the author is more concerned with the timber in his own eye and cannot, at this time, remove the dust from another's. Please sing the Holy Names of the Supreme Lord.

Haribol, your servant, mahaksadasa

[theist]

 

These are legitimate points he is making. It is a huge stretch to compare the Biblical god to Lord Vishnu. If we believe in the authenticity of the Bible these verses leave no doubt Old Testament god is not Vishnu.

 

The title of the thread is again for those with an attention span even shorter than mine, "Is Jesus also Vishnu".

 

This person jumps in at the mention of anything that he perceives as an opening to dump on Christians. You apparently like it. So why not you and and whoever else go start a comparative religion thread between the Old Testamaent and whatever you conceive Vaisnavism to be about.

 

It is a staple of this website to ignore the thread starters question or design in starting a thread and just jumping onto their own soapbox regardless of the context. This is extremely rude and a practice not tolerated on any of the other websites I frequent including the totally mundane ones dedicated solely to health topics. This is passion and ignorance displacing sattva. It is sattvik to discuss appropriate topics while maintaining continuity and respectablity. I've done the same thing more than often but we have to grow out of that stage and certainly out of the stage of trying to find pleasure in mindless fault finding at every oppurtunity..

[Guest guest]

 

The title of the thread is again for those with an attention span even shorter than mine, "Is Jesus also Vishnu".

 

Yes, but if you read more then just the title of the opening post you will see what the question really is about.

 

And no, Jesus is not Lord Vishnu. He is a son of God, just like we are all sons of God. Jesus said that himself and St.Paul confirms that in his letter to Galatians.

[Guest guest]

Whie I sibscribe to the view that Jesus Christ is a bonfide acarya, I dismiss the view that he is simultaneously one and differnet from God.

 

The Jiva can never become Visnua. Guru tattva is also not Visnu. Jesus Christ is likely Guru tattva, so he is not Lord Visnu and thinking otherwise is just speculation.

 

 

?

[theist]

 

Whie I sibscribe to the view that Jesus Christ is a bonfide acarya, I dismiss the view that he is simultaneously one and differnet from God.

 

The Jiva can never become Visnua. Guru tattva is also not Visnu. Jesus Christ is likely Guru tattva, so he is not Lord Visnu and thinking otherwise is just speculation.

 

Well even Vaisnavas have differing views. Those that follow Lord Caitanya accept that not only Jesus Christ is one and different from Vishnu but everyone and everything else is also. The difference is we are asleep to that reality and Jesus Christ was awake to it.

[Guest guest]

Well then, I respectcully disagree.

 

Lord Caitanya clearly stated that the Jiva can never be Visnu. We are part and parcel of Lord Visnua, not Lord Visnu Himself.

 

 

Well even Vaisnavas have differing views. Those that follow Lord Caitanya accept that not only Jesus Christ is one and different from Vishnu but everyone and everything else is also. The difference is we are asleep to that reality and Jesus Christ was awake to it.

[theist]

 

Well then, I respectcully disagree.

 

Lord Caitanya clearly stated that the Jiva can never be Visnu. We are part and parcel of Lord Visnua, not Lord Visnu Himself.

 

Simultaneously one and different is diffucult to grasp. Vaisnavas mostly seem to give short play to the oneness aspect in preference to the dualism. Thinking the acceptance of oness cancels out the difference. Advaitins only like what they conceive to be oneness canceling out all dualism.

 

The key word to grasp is simultaneously, and this is what our material molded minds have so much trouble with.

[HerServant]

 

Well then, I respectcully disagree.

 

Lord Caitanya clearly stated that the Jiva can never be Visnu. We are part and parcel of Lord Visnua, not Lord Visnu Himself.

 

You may respectfully disagree, but you are not correct to quote Sri Caitanya in this way. Please review the following:

 

From CC Adi-Lila Ch. 5. The Glories of Lord Nityananda Balarama

 

Text 5

"They are both one and the same identity. They differ only in form. He is the first bodily expansion of Krishna, and He assists in Lord Krishna’s transcendental pastimes."

 

Purport

 

"Balarama is a svamsa expansion of the Lord, and therefore there is no difference in potency between Krishna and Balarama."

 

 

Text 10 Purport

 

"Sri Balarama is the servitor Godhead who serves Lord Krishna in all affairs of existence and knowledge."

 

Text 18 Purport

 

"That transcendental abode exists by the energy of Sri Baladeva, who is the original whole of Shesha, or Ananta. The tantras also confirm this description by stating that the abode of Sri Anantadeva, the plenary portion of Baladeva, is called the kingdom of God."

 

Text 41 Purport

 

"Sankarshana, the second expansion, is Vasudeva's personal expansion for pastimes, and since He is the reservoir of all living entities, He is sometimes called jiva."

 

[For more important discussion of Lord Balarama as jiva, see especially numbered points 1 and 2 on page 170 regarding refutation of Adi Shankaracharya’s teaching that Sri Baladeva as jiva is the ordinary living entity.]

 

Text 41 Purport,

 

"In the spiritual sky there is a spiritual creative energy technically called shuddha-sattva, which is a pure spiritual energy that sustains all the Vaikuntha planets with the full opulences of knowledge, wealth, prowess etc. All these actions of shuddha-sattva display the potencies of Maha-Sankarshana, who is the ultimate reservoir of all individual living entities who are suffering in the material world. When the cosmic creation is annihilated, the living entities, who are indestructible by nature, rest in the body of Maha-Sankarshana. Sankarshana is sometimes therefore called the total jiva."

 

THE THEOLOGICAL CONTROVERSY REGARDING SRI BALADEVA AS JIVA TATTVA IS NOT ONLY BETWEEN THE SHANKARITES, SHAIVITES AND VAISHNAVAS, BUT IS ALSO FOUND BETWEEN THE VARIOUS SCHOOLS OR LINEAGES OF VAISHNAVISM AS WELL.

 

Christian thought is a branch of devotional Vaisnavism. The theology of Jesus and the teaching of His divinity is very similar to Vaisnava teaching on Baladeva.