nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha is every marginal living entity

[Vigraha]

 

 

nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha is every marginal living entity. Originally everyone is nitya-siddha

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Your next question, "Is a pure devotee eternally liberated and if so is he at any time a conditioned soul? We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated? You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned. Because we cannot trace out the history or the date when we became conditioned, therefore it is technically called eternally conditioned. Otherwise the living entity is not actually conditioned. A living entity is always pure. But he is prone to be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material enjoyment, he becomes conditioned, but that is not permanent. Therefore a living entity is called on the marginal state, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. These are very intelligent questions. And I am very glad that you are putting such intelligent questions and trying to understand it. It is very good”. Letter to Aniruddha dasa, Los Angeles 14 November 1968

 

Srila Prabhupada: You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this maya. This is called maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada says that as living souls we are all originally Krishna conscious. But what does that mean? Were we all originally with Krishna in the spiritual world? And if so, how could we ever have fallen? In Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna says, “Once you attain to that spiritual world, you never fall.” So how then could we have fallen from there to begin with?

 

Some have tried to work around this problem by suggesting a different idea: We fell not from Krishna’s personal abode but from the brahmajyoti, the effulgent light that surrounds it. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, yogis who seek the impersonal aspect of the Supreme may merge into that effulgent light—only to fall back later to the material world. Perhaps, then, we originally fell from the brahmajyoti.

 

Srila Prabhupada rejected this idea. Those in the brahmajyoti, he wrote, are not Krishna conscious, so they too are fallen. “So there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.”

 

Well, then, since we’re called “eternally conditioned,” eternally illusioned, perhaps we’ve never really fallen at all—we’ve just always been down. That idea, too, Srila Prabhupada rejected.

 

“Eternally conditioned,” he explained, simply means that we’ve been down so long that when we fell is no longer possible to know.

 

Srila Prabhupada – “If one understands Krsna, then all the departments of knowledge are part and parcel of that understanding. Krsna is transcendental, for He is always situated in His eternal internal potency. The living entities are manifested and are divided into two classes, eternally conditioned and eternally liberated. Such living entities are innumerable, and they are considered fundamental parts of Krsna. Material energy is manifested into twenty-four divisions. The creation is effected by eternal time, and it is created and dissolved by external energy. This manifestation of the cosmic world repeatedly becomes visible and invisible”. Bhagavad gita as it is Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation

 

"Forgetting Krsna, the living entity has turned his face away from the Lord from time immemorial". - Caitanya-caritamrita, Madhya lila, 20.108.

Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated and eternally conditioned but factually every marginal living entity has these two fold characteristics. But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can't be eternally conditioned. The time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Since we cannot trace out when we have become conditioned, there is no use of arguing on this point. Better to take care first how we can get rid of this conditional existence; as much as a patient should take care for treating his disease more, and less waste his time in finding out the cause of his disease.

Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya's influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. But his relationship with Krsna is never lost, simply it is forgotten by the influence of Maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; the process is one of revival only, nothing new.Letter to: Jagadisa : 70-02-27 Los Angeles

"This external energy of the Lord covers up the pure knowledge of the living entity's eternally existing with Him, but the covering is so constant that it appears that the conditioned soul is eternally ignorant". - Srimad Bhagavatam, 2.5.19, purport.

Srila Prabhupada - "This is maha-bhagavata nitya-siddha. And sadhana-siddha means those who are put into this material world, by the association of maha-bhagavata, if he tries, follows, then he can also become maha-bhagavata or nitya-siddha, because originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, but somehow or other, just like Jaya-Vijaya, fell down in this material world, and he was delivered also, both of them were delivered". Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

[Vigraha]

 

 

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Srila Prabhupada the eternal nitya-siddha devotee of Krishna. Why? Because he chooses to never forget Krishna

 

 

[theist]

 

You have some psychological problem. If you believe some crap theory, fine. No need to cram it into everyone using your deceptive and dishonest methods.

 

Perhaps it is you guest who are averse to hearing a viewpoint other than your own.

 

I can appreciate these great quotes on nitya- baddha and nitya-siddha and accept Srila Prabhupada's teaching on what it means to be marginal in nature.

 

I leave aside the connection to origins because a case could be made that the same teaching may apply to either Vaikuntha or the brahmajyoti and there is no resolving it in debate, it requires personal realization.

 

Instead of throwing mud on vigraha you could use this space to provide you own understanding of nity-siddha, nitya-baddha and what it means to be marginal nature.

[Vigraha]

Srila Prabhupada said on April 20, 1972, in Tokyo, Japan - “no one falls from Vaikuntha.” Srila Prabhupada says that we were originally with Krsna and are now in a situation where “we think we have fallen’.

Srila Prabhupada – “Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that”.

Srila Prabhupada - “This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there”.

Srila Prabhupada – “In the material condition of all living entities, there are three stages of dreaming. When the material world is awake and put in working order, this is a kind of dream, a waking dream. When the living entities go to sleep, they dream again. And when unconscious at the time of annihilation, when this material world is unmanifested, they enter another stage of dreaming. At any stage in the material world, therefore, they are all dreaming. In the spiritual world, however, everything is awake”. Srimad Bhagavatam canto 8 chapter 1 text 9 purport.

 

So how can we be in the material and spiritual world simultaneously?

 

 

 

The answer is the time factor and not the division of the self. The nitya-siddha is referred to as the eternal form or higher self of ones marginal identity while the nitya-baddha consciousness is devoid of form and is referred to as the secondary inferior conscious projection or lower self that is activated by ones non-Krishna conscious desires, dreams and thoughts.

It only appears that way due to eternal time in relation to divided time. These realizations cannot be learnt on an academic level, they must come from the amazing and causeless mercy of the Srila Prabhupada.

Acintyah means inconceivable though the way to understand the apparent existence and paradox of both the nitya-siddha body and the nitya-baddha consciousness existing at the same time is that the nitya-siddha bodily self is eternally liberated in Goloka, existing in the endless presents and pastimes of Krishna, while the nitya-baddha bodiless dreaming consciousness is eternally conditioned outside the Vaikuntha realm in either a conscious Impersonal inactive dormant condition, where one is not aware of past, present and future or within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu, where the nitya-baddha consciousness is confined to ethereal and biological bodily vessels that He provides so one can actively act out their dreams within His mahat-tattva.

As already explained, the mahat-tattva is governed by past, present and future that has the by-product of impermanence and decay, both are temporary conditions because the nitya-baddha consciousness is not who one really is perpetually.

The marginal living entity does not go from nitya siddha to nitya badda as one moderator misunderstood, THATS NOT POSSIBLE because eveyone is always nitya-siddha and only DREAM they are nitya baddha. The nitya-siddha svarupa identity is eternally ones genuin identity perpetually.

The dreaming nitya-baddha consciousness on the other hand enters the dreams of Maha-Vishnu.and is given ethereal and biological bodily facilities or vessels that make such dreams real but subject to decay or real but temporary. At the same 'time' that one chooses to be absorbed in their non-Krishna nitya-baddha dreams, ones 'svarupa' body is perpetually in Goloka.in the eternal 'present'.

Unfortunately even many ISKCON devotees cannot understand this and choose to not get involved. At times Srila Prabhupada said it was a waste of time to understand and at other times he said it was important to understand. We must remember that ISKCON is only in the very early pioneering stages and many great souls are waiting for the right time to take birth when they feel their Spiritual development is protected and nurtured with eyes open with knowledge and devotion and not imitation. .The ISKCON movement will attract great souls as devotees become genuinely pure, humble and strong without imitation. There is a great Spiritual change coming!

Ones awareness of reality is simply based on the concept of time governed by whether one chooses to serve Krishna or reject Krishna. From the nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious bodily point of view, the nitya-baddha bodiless consciousness simply does not exist; it’s not even an illusion to them because such an illusion does not exist as part of their nitya-siddha-svarupa body. This is important to understand.

On the other hand, the nitya-siddha devotee’s are aware of the dark cloud in Vaikuntha Spiritual Sky that is real but only a temporary manifestation and is a place where the marginal living entities non-Krishna conscious dreams go to be embodied and pursued. The paradox here is such dreams have no effect in perpetual time in Goloka-Vrndavana and on return to their genuine bodily svarupa self; it will be as if they never left.

Srila Prabhupada explains ones so called fall down like this and then says that technically one never falls down, they only 'think' they have left Goloka.

Srila Prabhupada also explains that the tendency or possibility is always there with all marginal devotees to forget Krishna and their eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa body they serve Krishna as, because of being marginal energy of the Lord. One can either choose to stay with Krishna or reject Him due to their independent marginal status. Such wishes are the choice all marginal living entities have – that is why they are called marginal.

 

Srila Prabhupada clearly tells us that actually no-one falls down because their svarupa body never leaves Goloka-Vrndavana and that one only ‘thinks’ they are fallen or ‘dreams’ they are fallen, but in the perpetual reality of the eternal 'presents' of Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, no one never falls down.

 

[Vigraha]

Correction

On the other hand, the nitya-siddha devotee’s are aware of the dark cloud in Spiritual Sky called the mahat-tattva that is real but only a temporary manifestation and is a place where the marginal living entities non-Krishna conscious dreams go to be embodied and pursued. The paradox here is such dreams have no effect in perpetual time in Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha and on return to their genuine perepetual bodily svarupa self; it will be as if they never left.

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