Is Time and existing in the spiritual world?

[Ananta Sesa]

There is no past or future in the spiritual world, only an eternal NOW, but couldn´t one say that this is absolute time, time which cannot be related to in terms of yesterday and tomorrow?

 

And if there is an yesterday and tomorrow, how can it then be only NOW?

 

In the spiritual world Krishna is the Time, but how is it functioning there?

 

 

And what about the space?

 

Here in the material world the space is relative, it can be measured and related, but what about the space in the spiritual world?

[som]

Good observations Prabhu. Please find my comments below:

 

 

There is no past or future in the spiritual world, only an eternal NOW, but couldn´t one say that this is absolute time, time which cannot be related to in terms of yesterday and tomorrow?

 

Sure. It is an eternal NOW. No yesterday, no tomorrow. As it is stated in Brahma-Samhita:

 

[...Nimeshaardhaakhyo Va Vrajati Nahi Yatrapi Samayah...

 

"...here there is eternal existence of transcendental time, who is ever present and without past or future and hence is not subject to the quality of passing away even for the space of half a moment...." - BS 5.56 - http://vedabase.net/bs/5/56/en ]

 

 

And if there is an yesterday and tomorrow, how can it then be only NOW? In the spiritual world Krishna is the Time, but how is it functioning there?

 

There is no yesterday and today. Eternally the time is NOW. It is the NOW that only exists. Therefore it is stated in Brahma-Samhita: "...hence is not subject to the quality of passing away even for the space of half a moment..."

 

 

And what about the space?

 

Here in the material world the space is relative, it can be measured and related, but what about the space in the spiritual world?

 

In the Spiritual world, the space will be absolute in the sense that the space is also fully spiritual entity serving Krishna. Spiritual world means that there is no matter and hence everything is eternally dynamic in nature always rendering loving devotional service to Krishna.

 

Hare Krishna!

[suchandra]

 

There is no past or future in the spiritual world, only an eternal NOW, but couldn´t one say that this is absolute time, time which cannot be related to in terms of yesterday and tomorrow?

 

And if there is an yesterday and tomorrow, how can it then be only NOW?

 

In the spiritual world Krishna is the Time, but how is it functioning there?

 

 

And what about the space?

 

Here in the material world the space is relative, it can be measured and related, but what about the space in the spiritual world?

According Bhagavad-gita, ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham - "As they surrender unto Me, I reveal myself" (Bhagavad-gita 4.11) this is to be understood by direct perception and not by the power of our limited brain capacity. However, our material mind can become fully spiritualized by engaging it in the service of Krishna in the association of Krishna and Krishna's devotees in the same way as an iron rod can become fire in the association of fire. Then only this question is answered in full by direct perception.

[Guruvani]

it's obvious even the moderator doesn't understand eternal time and deleted a post I wrote right off of direct quotes from the books.

[Guruvani]

 

There is no past or future in the spiritual world, only an eternal NOW,

 

The eternal now is a myth.

There is time in the spiritual world - eternal time.

[Admin5]

 

it's obvious even the moderator doesn't understand eternal time and deleted a post I wrote right off of direct quotes from the books.

Often when a post is removed, a person can refer to it as if it were better than it actually was. There were no direct quotes as far as we could see. In the past we have removed remarks by you that were demeaning to others and let the post in which they were made remain. But there were so many, that now, we will just remove such post altogether, rather than edit out phrases. It is by far not the worst you have said, but there is no need to demean others by refering to them as having come up with their philosophy "behind a fat joint". If you want your posts to remain, just present your point of view on a subject.

[Guruvani]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.11.38 purport

 

 

Eternal time is never lost along with the life of Brahmā. It continues, but it has no ability to control the Supreme Personality of Godhead because the Lord is the controller of time. In the spiritual world there is undoubtedly time, but it has no control over activities. Time is unlimited, and the spiritual world is also unlimited, since everything there exists on the absolute plane.

[Guruvani]

 

Often when a post is removed, a person can refer to it as if it were better than it actually was. There were no direct quotes as far as we could see. In the past we have removed remarks by you that were demeaning to others and let the post in which they were made remain. But there were so many, that now, we will just remove such post altogether, rather than edit out phrases. It is by far not the worst you have said, but there is no need to demean others by refering to them as having come up with their philosophy "behind a fat joint". If you want your posts to remain, just present your point of view on a subject.

well, then where did these guys come up with the "eternal now".

It is not found anywhere in the books.

I have never seen any shastra or acharya say that in the spiritual world life is just an eternal now.

 

I am just saying that the "eternal now" reminds me of hippie philosophy because it is certainly not in the books.

 

The "eternal now" is a concocted idea.

It is not shastric.

[Guruvani]

The life of Lord Brahma is said to occur within less than one second of eternal time.

 

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.11.38

 

kālo 'yaḿ dvi-parārdhākhyo

nimeṣa upacaryate

avyākṛtasyānantasya

hy anāder jagad-ātmanaḥ

 

SYNONYMS

kālaḥ — eternal time; ayam — this (as measured by Brahmā's duration of life); dvi-parārdha-ākhyaḥ — measured by the two halves of Brahmā's life; nimeṣaḥ — less than a second; upacaryate — is so measured; avyākṛtasya — of one who is unchanged; anantasya — of the unlimited; hi — certainly; anādeḥ — of the beginningless; jagat-ātmanaḥ — of the soul of the universe.

 

 

TRANSLATION

The duration of the two parts of Brahmā's life, as above mentioned, is calculated to be equal to one nimeṣa [less than a second] for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is unchanging and unlimited and is the cause of all causes of the universe.

 

 

PURPORT

The great sage Maitreya has given a considerable description of the time of different dimensions, beginning from the atom up to the duration of the life of Brahmā. Now he attempts to give some idea of the time of the unlimited Personality of Godhead. He just gives a hint of His unlimited time by the standard of the life of Brahmā. The entire duration of the life of Brahmā is calculated to be less than a second of the Lord's time, and it is explained in the Brahma-saḿhitā (5.48) as follows:

 

 

yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo

govindam ādi-puruṣaḿ tam ahaḿ bhajāmi

 

"I worship Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, whose plenary portion is Mahā-Viṣṇu. All the heads of the innumerable universes [the Brahmās] live only by taking shelter of the time occupied by one of His breaths." The impersonalists do not believe in the form of the Lord, and thus they would hardly believe in the Lord's sleeping. Their idea is obtained by a poor fund of knowledge; they calculate everything in terms of man's capacity. They think that the existence of the Supreme is just the opposite of active human existence; because the human being has senses, the Supreme must be without sense perception; because the human being has a form, the Supreme must be formless; and because the human being sleeps, the Supreme must not sleep. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, however, does not agree with such impersonalists. It is clearly stated herein that the Supreme Lord rests in yoga-nidrā, as previously discussed. And because He sleeps, naturally He must breathe, and the Brahma-saḿhitā confirms that within His breathing period innumerable Brahmās take birth and die.

There is complete agreement between Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and the Brahma-saḿhitā. Eternal time is never lost along with the life of Brahmā. It continues, but it has no ability to control the Supreme Personality of Godhead because the Lord is the controller of time. In the spiritual world there is undoubtedly time, but it has no control over activities. Time is unlimited, and the spiritual world is also unlimited, since everything there exists on the absolute plane.

 

[Guruvani]

As well, just for fun, I would say that if there are no nights on Goloka and no Moon to see Syamasundar standing by the side of the Yamuna in the Moonlight, that I am going to be very disappointed.

 

If Gokula is a replica of Goloka, then we also have to conclude that there is a form of night and a Moon as well.

 

The pastimes of the Lord at Gokula are a replica of Goloka.

 

If there is no time and no nights, then so many pastimes of the Lord rising in the morning to get bath, dressed and go out to take the cows to pasture cannot take place.

 

Time is there in the spiritual world but it doesn't have the enervating influence that it has here in the material world which has limited time.

 

Goloka has unlimted time.

No time limit.

Time goes on forever.

That is the shastric version.

[Guruvani]

In the spiritual world the fact that time has no influence is something everyone is aware of.

 

Here is a little snippet from a purport that expresses this concept nicely.

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.9.3, purport

 

In the spiritual sky of the brahmajyoti there is no change of various kalpas or millenniums, and there are no creative activities in the Vaikuṇṭha worlds. The influence of time is conspicuous by its absence. The rays of the transcendental body of the Lord, the unlimited brahmajyoti, are undeterred by the influence of material energy.

 

Even the brahmajyoti in Vaikuntha is never influence by the material energy.

[Guest guest]

In the spiritual world time is merely the enabler and facilitator of pastimes. It does not cause dwindling of anything or limits pastimes in any way. It is merely a signal that now is time for a new pastime. Endless procassion of fun filled days, nights, and various seasons.

[Guruvani]

 

In the spiritual world time is merely the enabler and facilitator of pastimes. It does not cause dwindling of anything or limits pastimes in any way. It is merely a signal that now is time for a new pastime. Endless procassion of fun filled days, nights, and various seasons.

 

sweet, well said...

[Ananta Sesa]

 

The eternal now is a myth.

 

 

So there is past and future in the spiritual world?

[Guruvani]

 

So there is past and future in the spiritual world?

 

if there is eternal time, then there must be a past and a future...

 

time divides things as past, present and future.

 

without eternal time then everything would stand still.

 

If Krishna walks from the Yamuna to Govardhana hill, then in the past he was in the Yamuna and in the present he is herding cows on Govardhana hill.

If the future he will bring in the cows and milk them to make yoghurt for the future.

 

Without time everything is like a statue eternally.

[theist]

 

According Bhagavad-gita, ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham - "As they surrender unto Me, I reveal myself" (Bhagavad-gita 4.11) this is to be understood by direct perception and not by the power of our limited brain capacity. However, our material mind can become fully spiritualized by engaging it in the service of Krishna in the association of Krishna and Krishna's devotees in the same way as an iron rod can become fire in the association of fire. Then only this question is answered in full by direct perception.

Trying to understand eternity while controled by the material time conception is like trying to see the stars at night while one mile down in a coal mine.

 

One first has to rise out of the coal mine and then the night sky is there to be seen with no extraneous effort.

[Nrsinghadev]

I agree with theist for once. No use speculating on what we cannot comprehend with our tiny brains. Other than that, even here in the material world we are eternally living in the now. The future does not exist and the past is a memory. Time travels with the now.

[Guruvani]

 

Time travels with the now.

Time doesn't travel.

We travel through time.

 

 

the past is eternity

the future is eternity.

 

the now lasts for only a moment.

 

the future is forever...

 

according to the Bhagavatm the "NOW" lasts for .1687.5 of a second.

 

In other words if you divide a second into 1687.5 parts, the "now" is one of them parts.

[theist]

 

I agree with theist for once. No use speculating on what we cannot comprehend with our tiny brains. Other than that, even here in the material world we are eternally living in the now. The future does not exist and the past is a memory. Time travels with the now.

 

For Once?!?!

I hope it didn't hurt too bad Nringhadev. :D:D

Just jokin' around.

[Ananta Sesa]

...past, future and impermanence has no meaning in the personal pastimes of Krishna and His Vishnu expansions because everything is always happening now.

 

 

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/1051552-post1.html

[vijay]

 

if there is eternal time, then there must be a past and a future...

 

time divides things as past, present and future.

 

without eternal time then everything would stand still.

 

If Krishna walks from the Yamuna to Govardhana hill, then in the past he was in the Yamuna and in the present he is herding cows on Govardhana hill.

If the future he will bring in the cows and milk them to make yoghurt for the future.

 

Without time everything is like a statue eternally.

 

As thiest prabhu said no use speculating. Wait until one realizes he is not the body.

 

"where there is eternal existence of transcendental time, who is ever present and without past or future and hence is not subject to the quality of passing away even for the space of half a moment. That realm is known as Goloka only to a very few self-realized souls in this world."

 

http://vedabase.net/bs/5/56/en

[Guruvani]

the pastimes of Krishna are known as Asta-kaliya-lila or a taking place in 8 different times of the day. these pastimes of the Lord are eternal as is eternal time itself.

 

Asta-kaliya-lila - the pastimes which Krsna performs with His associates in eight periods of the day. Sadhakas who are engaged in smarana, or remembrance, meditate on these pastimes.

The periods are as follows (times are approximate):

1) nisanta-lila, pastimes at the end of night (3:36 am-6:00 am) ;

2) prata-lila, pastimes at dawn (6:00 am-8:24 am) ;

3) purvahna-lila, morning pastimes (8:24 am-10:48 am) ;

4) madhyahna-lila, midday pastimes (10:48 am-3.36 pm) ;

5) aparahna-lila, afternoon pastimes (3:36 pm-6:00 pm) ;

6) sayahna-lila, pastimes at dusk (6:00 pm-8:24 pm) ;

7) pradosa-lila, evening pastimes (8:24 pm- 10:48 pm) ; and 8) nakta-lila, midnight pastimes (10:48 pm-3:36 am).

 

without eternal time these pastimes cannot take place in this way.

 

 

no speculation about it...... there is eternal time in Goloka.

[Guruvani]

In Nectat of Instruction verse 10, we hear about these eightfold daily pastimes.

 

 

Who, then, will not reside at Rādhā-kuṇḍa and, in a spiritual body surcharged with ecstatic devotional feelings [aprākṛtabhāva], render loving service to the divine couple Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Govinda, who perform Their aṣṭakālīya-līlā, Their eternal eightfold daily pastimes. Indeed, those who execute devotional service on the banks of Rādhā-kuṇḍa are the most fortunate people in the universe.

If there are "daily" pastimes in Vrindavan, then there must be eternal time.

[vijay]

 

In Nectat of Instruction verse 10, we hear about these eightfold daily pastimes.

 

 

If there are "daily" pastimes in Vrindavan, then there must be eternal time.

 

You initially said

"if there is eternal time, then there must be a past and a future...

 

time divides things as past, present and future."

 

It says below

 

"where there is eternal existence of transcendental time, who is ever present and without past or future and hence is not subject to the quality of passing away even for the space of half a moment. That realm is known as Goloka only to a very few self-realized souls in this world."

http://vedabase.net/bs/5/56/en

 

So how do you reconcile all of these statements so they are all true?

[Guruvani]

 

You initially said

"if there is eternal time, then there must be a past and a future...

 

time divides things as past, present and future."

 

It says below

 

"where there is eternal existence of transcendental time, who is ever present and without past or future and hence is not subject to the quality of passing away even for the space of half a moment. That realm is known as Goloka only to a very few self-realized souls in this world."

http://vedabase.net/bs/5/56/en

 

So how do you reconcile all of these statements so they are all true?

If we look at the verse you are refering to and consider the original text we will find the words :

 

nimeṣa-ardha — half a moment; ākhyaḥ — called; vā — or; vrajati — passes away; na — not;

These are the words translated as :

 

 

where there is eternal existence of transcendental time, who is ever present and without past or future and hence is not subject to the quality of passing away even for the space of half a moment

so, myself, in order to adjust the apparent contradiction I look at the original text which simply says :

 

"half a moment passes away not"

 

 

So, to me that means that unlike in the material world where time is lost, in the spiritual world time is not lost or "passes away not".

 

Passes away means like to die or be lost.

But, time in the spiritual world is not lost, it is preserved eternally.

 

So, I don't see that the original verse says that there is no time.

It says:

 

 

hi — certainly; yatra — where; api — even; samayaḥ — time;

It says certainly "api" (nevertheless) (eternal) time.

 

I don't see the original text as saying that time in the spiritual world is an "eternal now".

 

What it means to me is that time is never lost in the spiritual world, therefore there is no aging or deterioration due to the enervating influence of time as it affects matter.

 

Time does not affect the spiritual energy as it does the material energy.

 

Time is eternal and matter is inferior energy and thus is affected by time.